Rebuilding STAGE 2: Shedding Some Contracts

[Merdiesel]

First Trade with Miami

Incoming Players
Quentin Richardson

Outgoing Players
Donte Greene
Andres Nocioni

Sacramento sheds Nocioni's big contract and makes room for Omri.
Miami upgrades support for Wade with a solid player in team player Nocioni and a young prospect in Greene.

Second trade with Philly

Incoming Players
Jason Kapono

Outgoing Players
Beno Udrih

Sacramento shortens Beno's contract by two years while bringing in a back up SF behind Omri. Philly upgrades their back up point guard position behind Lou Williams.

Both trades work contract wise and seem to me pretty practical IMO.

What do you guys think?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Miami values their 2010 cap space way too much to agree to that.

 

[AriesMar27]

that and why would they want to do us any favors? same goes for philly... you guys should give up on having any 2010 capspace... try aiming for 2011... we wont have any money to spend this offseason and no one will want to come here.

its kinda hard to get rid of bad contracts when they are tied up in bad players. no one wants nocioni or beno unless they are trading players that are worse than the ones that they are receiving. you trade nocioni then you will get a player with a contract that is just as long and is a worse player. same goes for beno, its probably worse with beno. i cant think of a team with no pg at all... beno is a back up with starters money. he makes just as much as fisher and more than sessions... unless he is somehow filler for a horrbile player with a long contract i dont see how he is going to be traded for at least 3 years... though i said the same thing about thomas and he wasnt traded at all.

we were all cool with keeping corliss and skinner... it was thomas that everyone wanted to get rid of. it never happened.

 

[gunks]

Lately Petrie trades for poo that sticks like glue.


We have to work curses on contending team's PGs, so that they have no CHOICE but to get the Beno. I could actually see us trading Noc Dogg. His scrappy presence could put a team over the top. At least thats what Petrie should be telling other GMs.

 

[AriesMar27]

Lately Petrie trades for poo that sticks like glue.


We have to work curses on contending team's PGs, so that they have no CHOICE but to get the Beno. I could actually see us trading Noc Dogg. His scrappy presence could put a team over the top. At least thats what Petrie should be telling other GMs.

thats probably what the bulls told petrie... "we'll take miller if you take nocioni... you already have hawes geoff. you dont need miller and since youre trading salmons your are gonna need a small forward."

he fell for it, and now we will suffer the consequences....

 

[hrdboild]

The sad thing is that basically the only contracts left to shed are the contracts that were signed while we were still waiting to get out of the old ones (Kenny Thomas, Brad Miller, Shareef). Now instead of being free and clear this summer we've got 12-14 million going to Cisco and Udrih for the next 3 years who most certainly will be bench players when this team gets good again. Those were bad contracts as soon as they were signed. Even Salmons would have come off the books a year before Nocioni does. That's why this rebuild is taking forever. By the time these contracts end we'll have to make a decision on extending Hawes and Thompson or not. Which means if we don't get a big money free agent this summer, we probably won't be getting one.

 

[bajaden]

that and why would they want to do us any favors? same goes for philly... you guys should give up on having any 2010 capspace... try aiming for 2011... we wont have any money to spend this offseason and no one will want to come here.

its kinda hard to get rid of bad contracts when they are tied up in bad players. no one wants nocioni or beno unless they are trading players that are worse than the ones that they are receiving. you trade nocioni then you will get a player with a contract that is just as long and is a worse player. same goes for beno, its probably worse with beno. i cant think of a team with no pg at all... beno is a back up with starters money. he makes just as much as fisher and more than sessions... unless he is somehow filler for a horrbile player with a long contract i dont see how he is going to be traded for at least 3 years... though i said the same thing about thomas and he wasnt traded at all.

we were all cool with keeping corliss and skinner... it was thomas that everyone wanted to get rid of. it never happened.

Whether you believe it or not, there are teams the would love to have Nocioni. The problem is that for the most part, they don't have anything we want. Boston tried to get him last year at the trade deadline. Tell me who you would want from Boston, that they would be willing to trade. The only player I would want is Perkins, and I seriously doubt they're willing to part with him.

Just about everyone on this fourm wanted Miller and Salmons gone. You may be one of the exceptions. But the amount of posts protesting the playing time that was being taken away from young players, to Miller just showing up and not playing to Salmons dribbles the ball too much and doesn't fit in the long term plans. So Petrie traded away two big contracts, one of which was a long term one, and took back similar contracts. One long term, but diminishing every year and the rest expiring. We no longer needed Miller and he was starting to become a drag on the team with his lack of interest. We lost a SF and gained a SF. But the one we gained had no problem coming off the bench. I don't have a problem with the trade. We needed to start the rebuild in earnest, and that meant getting rid of the old and in with the new.

By the way. We should have around 14 mil to work with next offseason. You can certainly get a pretty good player for that amount. We wern't going to get a superstar anyway.

 

[AriesMar27]

The sad thing is that basically the only contracts left to shed are the contracts that were signed while we were still waiting to get out of the old ones (Kenny Thomas, Brad Miller, Shareef). Now instead of being free and clear this summer we've got 12-14 million going to Cisco and Udrih for the next 3 years who most certainly will be bench players when this team gets good again. Those were bad contracts as soon as they were signed. Even Salmons would have come off the books a year before Nocioni does. That's why this rebuild is taking forever. By the time these contracts end we'll have to make a decision on extending Hawes and Thompson or not. Which means if we don't get a big money free agent this summer, we probably won't be getting one.

and thats why trading miller for nocioni hurts so much... we will only have about 7 million in capspace this offseason. we couldve had 20 if we had just kept miller. how anyone can justify that trade is beyond me. there is no way that anyone here could honestly say that they would rather have nocioni and his contract than miller and his. i dont care how much you hated miller.... his contract was expiring and he is a center. now we have no capspace and no back up center.... petrie got robbed and he goes out there and acts like he got the better end of the deal. miller wasnt stealing minutes from hawes, the coach wasnt playing hawes. oddly enough our new coach now has sean f'n may starting at center over hawes.

petrie f'd up... and now we have nocioni... we traded our starting sf so that we could free up minutes for our younger sf's only to trade for an older sf with a longer contract, sign an even older sf to 1 yr deal and draft yet another sf.

we were waiting for our vets to expire so that we could sign someone who could help the team win but petrie f'd that up. we replaced shareefs mle deal with benos and thomas' dumbass contract for nocioni's dumbass contract. all of the positive things things that some posters say about nocioni are the same things that some of the same people were saying about thomas in his first full season here.

its kinda scary, i remember the 05 offseason... members were talking about how thomas could be 6th man of the year and how he could play sf. they blamed webber for being injured or they blamed adelman for playing him too soon. they said that it was time to move on and whatnot, just like they do now with the miller/nocioni trade. his contract isnt that bad, blah, blah, blah.... he is a good player on a contender... so is thomas... that doesnt mean that he doesnt suck for this team. or that anyone actually wants him

how anyone could hate the idea of having eddy curry or zach randolph on this team but is okay with thomas, beno and nocioni is mind boggling. i remember when people hated the idea of trading for marcus banks, yeah he sucks but we wouldnt have him for the next 4 years. we can lose all by ourselves, just because it could be worse doesnt mean that it will be. it could be addition by subtraction. im not saying that we should try to get marcus banks or randolph... im just saying people around here are nuts. myself included depending on the topic.

 

[kennadog]

And if Petrie lets a player go on an expired contract, then he's blasted for letting a player go for nothing, instead of trading for something. I'm not defending GP, but he really never will win with some people, no matter what he does, because they can dream up all kinds of better ideas, realistic or not.

Now he's beiong knocked for trading Miller and S;amons after almost everyone was screaming to get rid of them, especially Miller. I'm still satisfied those two needed to go.

 

[bajaden]

and thats why trading miller for nocioni hurts so much... we will only have about 7 million in capspace this offseason.

Ahhhh, your math is a little fuzzy. The cap this year is at 57.7 Mil. Its suspossed to either stay close to that figure or go down slightly. The Kings are under the cap right now to the tune of close to 3 mil. Next offseason K.T. comes off the books and he's making 8.7 mil. The rest of Mikki Moore's contract comes off the books and thats another 2 mil. Sergio is a team option for next year. If they decide not to pick up that option they would gain close to another 3 mil. May is on a one year contract as is Mason and Brockman. So the Kings could have as little as 12 mil or as much as 15 mil to work with, depending on what they want to do.

Its possible they'll make another deal somewhere down the line to free up more money. The point is that they have more flexablity than you think they do. Remember you can always use your cap space along with a player to make a trade. Here's a wild example. Just an example folks, so don't get your panties in an uproar..

Lets say that Wade wanted to get out of Miami and somehow the Kings convinced him to want to come here. But he wants a contract for, lets say, 22 mil a year. But all we have in cap space is 12 mil. We do a sign and trade with the heat. Sending them Martin . His contract along with the cap space we have is enough to get the deal done. The Heat do the deal because the get something out of the deal other than just losing Wade whose a free agent, and we open up a spot on the roster by trading Martin.

Now thats not going to happen, but its something that could happen with other parts.

 

[AriesMar27]

Ahhhh, your math is a little fuzzy. The cap this year is at 57.7 Mil. Its suspossed to either stay close to that figure or go down slightly. The Kings are under the cap right now to the tune of close to 3 mil. Next offseason K.T. comes off the books and he's making 8.7 mil. The rest of Mikki Moore's contract comes off the books and thats another 2 mil. Sergio is a team option for next year. If they decide not to pick up that option they would gain close to another 3 mil. May is on a one year contract as is Mason and Brockman. So the Kings could have as little as 12 mil or as much as 15 mil to work with, depending on what they want to do.

Its possible they'll make another deal somewhere down the line to free up more money. The point is that they have more flexablity than you think they do. Remember you can always use your cap space along with a player to make a trade. Here's a wild example. Just an example folks, so don't get your panties in an uproar..

Lets say that Wade wanted to get out of Miami and somehow the Kings convinced him to want to come here. But he wants a contract for, lets say, 22 mil a year. But all we have in cap space is 12 mil. We do a sign and trade with the heat. Sending them Martin . His contract along with the cap space we have is enough to get the deal done. The Heat do the deal because the get something out of the deal other than just losing Wade whose a free agent, and we open up a spot on the roster by trading Martin.

Now thats not going to happen, but its something that could happen with other parts.

i understand how capspace works... i know how sign and trades work and so on...

i was basing it on the possibility of the cap dropping to 50-53 mill... not staying at 57 million. according to marc stein we wouldnt even be top 7 in capspace next offseason anyways. he had the clippers at 7 with 7.5 million in capspace this coming offseason. so not only will we have less money than the clippers they are a better team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-091030-31

we werent even an honorable mention.

 

[AriesMar27]

And if Petrie lets a player go on an expired contract, then he's blasted for letting a player go for nothing, instead of trading for something. I'm not defending GP, but he really never will win with some people, no matter what he does, because they can dream up all kinds of better ideas, realistic or not.

Now he's beiong knocked for trading Miller and S;amons after almost everyone was screaming to get rid of them, especially Miller. I'm still satisfied those two needed to go.

if petrie simply let miller expire why would anyone attack him for it? i didnt care if miller was traded, i just didnt want us to take back any long term contracts. especially after he signed beno to a 5 yr deal, then garcia gets his money... having nocioni locked up for 4 more years sucks. unless he is putting monster numbers he is not worth his contract...

 

[kennadog]

if petrie simply let miller expire why would anyone attack him for it?

Because it's happened before.

 

[bajaden]

i understand how capspace works... i know how sign and trades work and so on...

i was basing it on the possibility of the cap dropping to 50-53 mill... not staying at 57 million. according to marc stein we wouldnt even be top 7 in capspace next offseason anyways. he had the clippers at 7 with 7.5 million in capspace this coming offseason. so not only will we have less money than the clippers they are a better team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-091030-31

we werent even an honorable mention.

I don't know where Stein gets his figures or if he just ignores the figures he wants because the team isn't sexy enough for him. But if the Kings don't pick up Sergio's contract at the end of this year, their total salarys will be $41,332,565.00. Using his 53 mil estimate that puts them 12 mil under the cap. Now the 53 mil may be an estimate, but I've read a lot of reports from the league office and many of them conflict with one another. So no one really knows for sure. But the $41 mil is a fact. That doesn't mean it can't change between now and then, and that doesn't mean the 53 mil can't go up either.

 

[hrdboild]

Because it's happened before.

It has happened before, but I think that was a different situation. Trading Christie for Mobley mid-season and then losing Mobley for nothing seemed like a net loss at a time when we were still making the playoffs and thus trying to get the max return on our assets. It left a hole in our starting lineup and you can't afford to have holes like that if you expect to win in the playoffs. That hole was filled by trading Bobby Jackson for Bonzi Wells, so we had to lose another key player as a result. But when we're clearly on the way down and most of the talent is already gone, it makes a lot of sense to hang onto your expiring contracts and let them expire instead of commiting that money to roleplayers who aren't going to get you to the playoffs anyway.

Look at what Portland did -- they dumped everybody for expiring contracts and they were terrible for a few years, and now they're back to being one of the best teams in the West. Sure beats what we've done. We could have had more cap room than anybody this off-season. Instead we're still talking about shedding unwanted contracts. It's getting real old.

 

[kennadog]

I'm just saying hindsight is 20/20. Some people around here (not necessarily you) will jump all over Petrie, no matter what move he makes. Its like a sport around here. GP isn't a basketball god, but he's no complete idiot either. He's fallible, just like everyone else, inlcuding lots of current and former GMs. I'm not quite willing to jettison him yet, partly because I'm a little scared of with whom the Maloofs would replace him.

 

[dbfish]

I get your point and......

Ahhhh, your math is a little fuzzy. The cap this year is at 57.7 Mil. Its suspossed to either stay close to that figure or go down slightly. The Kings are under the cap right now to the tune of close to 3 mil. Next offseason K.T. comes off the books and he's making 8.7 mil. The rest of Mikki Moore's contract comes off the books and thats another 2 mil. Sergio is a team option for next year. If they decide not to pick up that option they would gain close to another 3 mil. May is on a one year contract as is Mason and Brockman. So the Kings could have as little as 12 mil or as much as 15 mil to work with, depending on what they want to do.

Its possible they'll make another deal somewhere down the line to free up more money. The point is that they have more flexablity than you think they do. Remember you can always use your cap space along with a player to make a trade. Here's a wild example. Just an example folks, so don't get your panties in an uproar..

Lets say that Wade wanted to get out of Miami and somehow the Kings convinced him to want to come here. But he wants a contract for, lets say, 22 mil a year. But all we have in cap space is 12 mil. We do a sign and trade with the heat. Sending them Martin . His contract along with the cap space we have is enough to get the deal done. The Heat do the deal because the get something out of the deal other than just losing Wade whose a free agent, and we open up a spot on the roster by trading Martin.

Now thats not going to happen, but its something that could happen with other parts.

..........I can hear the uproaring panties already.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm just saying hindsight is 20/20. Some people around here (not necessarily you) will jump all over Petrie, no matter what move he makes. Its like a sport around here. GP isn't a basketball god, but he's no complete idiot either. He's fallible, just like everyone else, inlcuding lots of current and former GMs. I'm not quite willing to jettison him yet, partly because I'm a little scared of with whom the Maloofs would replace him.

Yeah, that's a good point. Petrie may not be the best GM in the game, but he's certainly competent at the least which puts him in the average territory. Most of the criticism I've had for his moves over the years tend to be that he's too conservative and reactionary rather than pro-active, but to his credit he doesn't make disastrous moves either so it's good and bad. We certainly could do a lot worse. He gets a lot of credit for being one of the first guys to draft foreign players (deservedly so) but now that the rest of the league has caught up on that front, he doesn't stand out as much.

It occurred to me earlier that perhaps the biggest reason the general perception of Petrie has changed is that the sports culture in general has changed rather dramatically in the last 10 years. I remember a time when I would read in the paper about a trade and not know who the players we got were until I saw them myself. But now that you can find everything on the internet and track the top prospects as early as jr. high, everyone has access to this information and everybody has an opinion. I think sports fans today are a lot more sophisticated as a result. We know the salary numbers, some of us play fantasy basketball so we pour over every team's box scores for every game. In that kind of a culture, every GM is under a microscope. Much more so than before.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the new-kid-on-the-block GMs (the Blazers guy, the Rockets guy, etc) are having a lot of success in a short period of time. The same thing is happening in baseball. The young guys have a much better idea of how to use this huge array of statistical information and they're less conventional in their thinking. They're better at uncovering underappreciated players and quicker to react to changing circumstances. And naturally if the new GMs are getting more sophisticated and the fans are getting more sophisticated, it follows that a lot of us young guys think we know better how to run a sports team than an old-guard like Petrie. All the information is out there for people to dissect. If you make a mistake, everybody is going to know about it and there's a lot of so-called experts waiting in line to take your place. It's all too easy to criticize someone else's work from your chair at home in front of the computer. Luckily most of our proposed trade scenarios don't actually happen because probably our collective success rate wouldn't be better than anyone else's were we actually held accountable.