Rebounding, Poor Defense, 4th Qtr Scoring and Points in the Paint

[NYCKingsFan]

I was at the Nets game last night and it was very disheartening to watch the Kings lose. Earlier in the year I watched the Kings break the losing streak at MSG when we still had Doug Christie. Ever since the Trailblazers game up to the controversial games with the Suns and Mavs, the Kings are in a slump. Losing to the Bulls and then the below .500 Nets? These are the Kings' main weaknesses and they have to get better at them.
1. Rebounding (They got outrebounded by double digits last night to Nets)
2. Defense (Kings held a 13 point lead last night but it disappeared. They have to score points and hold onto leads. Lately, this hasn't happened)
3. 4th Quarter Scoring (They have to outscore opponents in 4th qtr points to win; Teams are outscoring them in 4th qtr recently)
4. Points in the Paint (Kings are a jumpshooting team but need more cuts and easy layups from Bibby and Peja; I haven't seen any of these during this stretch. They have been outscored in the paint ridiculously and need to minimize opponent's points in the paint)

 

[iheartBrad]

you're preaching to the choir

 

[sloter]

Sooooooo, it turns out that Pedja is not the only Kings problem with the rebounding.... in the last 2 games they got outrebounded by 11 by both Nets and Bulls (without Chandler) who are hardly known for their intimidating frontcourts....

 

[Heuge]

Sooooooo, it turns out that Pedja is not the only Kings problem with the rebounding.... in the last 2 games they got outrebounded by 11 by both Nets and Bulls (without Chandler) who are hardly known for their intimidating frontcourts....

Pedja is one of the culprets of our problem. Our slow big men (particularly C. Webb) give up a ton of rebounds to younger more athletic bigs.

 

[piksi]

Sooooooo, it turns out that Pedja is not the only Kings problem with the rebounding.... in the last 2 games they got outrebounded by 11 by both Nets and Bulls (without Chandler) who are hardly known for their intimidating frontcourts....

The big man do not rotate, do not box out and have no athleticism. That is where the problem is.

 

[Bricklayer]

The bench issue (or lack thereof) again -- Mo/Matt/Darius really didn't give us any boardwork for the entire trip. In fact the Mo/Matt combo were almost as bad as Peja on the boards in their minutes replacing him. Brad also took 2 of the three nights off. Only reason we didn't get creamed all three nights was because of Webb's monster night in Boston.

Mo
30 4
28 1
25 4
83min 9rebs -- basically Peja's pace.

Matt
21 2
24 5
24 2
69 min 9rebs -- brought it one night, nothing on the others

Darius
13 2
20 1
17 3
50min 6rebs -- as an alleged PF

 

[LPKingsFan]

Paging Donyell Marshall asap.

 

[Rockmeister]

Paging Donyell Marshall asap.

Who would you give up for Donyell?

 

[KP]

The bench issue (or lack thereof) again -- Mo/Matt/Darius really didn't give us any boardwork for the entire trip. In fact the Mo/Matt combo were almost as bad as Peja on the boards in their minutes replacing him. Brad also took 2 of the three nights off. Only reason we didn't get creamed all three nights was because of Webb's monster night in Boston.

Mo
30 4
28 1
25 4
83min 9rebs -- basically Peja's pace.

Matt
21 2
24 5
24 2
69 min 9rebs -- brought it one night, nothing on the others

Darius
13 2
20 1
17 3
50min 6rebs -- as an alleged PF

Finally someone else says it. Our bench brought us absolutely no consistant rebounding, and Barnes(Pejas replacement) gave us absolutely no offense whatsoever.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Who would you give up for Donyell?

It would be tough, but they would probably love Bobby with the Alston controversy becoming such a distraction there. To me, it seems like more and more people are not even thinking about Bobby much around here. Yeah, he's hurt, but the same thing happened last year, could be a trend with him aging but playing the same energy type of game. I love Bobby, but I could see this happening.

I really don't know.

I guess a package of Tag+change, since they don't really have a center up there either (Bosh is more of a PF).

 

[Bricklayer]

It would be tough, but they would probably love Bobby with the Alston controversy becoming such a distraction there. To me, it seems like more and more people are not even thinking about Bobby much around here. Yeah, he's hurt, but the same thing happened last year, could be a trend with him aging but playing the same energy type of game. I love Bobby, but I could see this happening.

I really don't know.

I guess a package of Tag+change, since they don't really have a center up there either (Bosh is more of a PF).

Tag & one of the kids would be the most likely way to go about it. The kid being the reason why the rebuilding Raptors do it.

Alternately Bobby, Darius, and a kid, but I think obviously the former deal is better for us.

Leaves us with no backup center, but since we don't play him anyway, net gain. The real problem is which kid. Doubt Barnes is enough to tempt anybody, so it would be Evans or Martin. I would guess Martin if you were going to do it becaus he's more raw and less of a contributor now (of course on the other hand we are set to lose Mo at the end of the year when he's a FA, so two ways to look at it). I'm tired of losing young talent, but Marshall is a very good player and if he turned out to be the missing piece, its all worth it.

 

[Ryle]

Tag & one of the kids would be the most likely way to go about it. The kid being the reason why the rebuilding Raptors do it.

Alternately Bobby, Darius, and a kid, but I think obviously the former deal is better for us.

Leaves us with no backup center, but since we don't play him anyway, net gain. The real problem is which kid. Doubt Barnes is enough to tempt anybody, so it would be Evans or Martin. I would guess Martin if you were going to do it becaus he's more raw and less of a contributor now (of course on the other hand we are set to lose Mo at the end of the year when he's a FA, so two ways to look at it). I'm tired of losing young talent, but Marshall is a very good player and if he turned out to be the missing piece, its all worth it.

I would love to somehow get Marshall. Alot of our rebounding problems(especially on the offensive end) is that our 2 "interior" players work best in the high post and away from the basket. I think we need someone(either at PF or Center) who will work on the blocks and do the dirty work inside while the other works and passes at the high post. Marshall isn't necessarily an inside presence but he works well inside and has a nose for the ball.

 

[LjuboDaMan]

no way ... giving up bobby for marshal

we forget how much bobby meant to us

Marshal is a good player but not consistent as Bobby ... and doesn't play that hard sometimes

 

[Ryle]

no way ... giving up bobby for marshal

we forget how much bobby meant to us

Marshal is a good player but not consistent as Bobby ... and doesn't play that hard sometimes

He really means alot to us sitting on the bench in street clothes. This is 2 years in a row that he has missed a significant portion of the season and no one even knows if he will be back and playing for the playoffs. A healthy Bobby I can understand but not the Bobby we have had for the last 2 years.

 

[Bricklayer]

no way ... giving up bobby for marshal

we forget how much bobby meant to us

Marshal is a good player but not consistent as Bobby ... and doesn't play that hard sometimes

Just suggesting deals that work financially. If we want to bring back a serious player who will actually make a difference and NOT lose Peja or whoever in the process, that's kind of what we're looking at.

The same sort of deals with Erik Daniels added in might bring back Kurt Thomas (another big man rumored to be on the block) too. Thomas is not a big shot blocker but he will lay out anybody who has the audacity to drive the lane and is a strong board man.

 

[CruzDude]

Our bench has disappeared especially on offense. We know Darius can score, so can Evans. But they don't. And when either is in with CWebb they seem to almost always to defer shots to him. Let's face it, Pedja is critical to the Kings success. But so is the bench followed by correcting a near total lack of defense in the middle. There is no quick fix. Face it. And be serious, who wants our Martin now, yet? Trade value is with Darius, Mo and ...... and......... hmmm.

 

[VF21]

I was at the Nets game last night and it was very disheartening to watch the Kings lose. Earlier in the year I watched the Kings break the losing streak at MSG when we still had Doug Christie. Ever since the Trailblazers game up to the controversial games with the Suns and Mavs, the Kings are in a slump. Losing to the Bulls and then the below .500 Nets? These are the Kings' main weaknesses and they have to get better at them.
1. Rebounding (They got outrebounded by double digits last night to Nets)
2. Defense (Kings held a 13 point lead last night but it disappeared. They have to score points and hold onto leads. Lately, this hasn't happened)
3. 4th Quarter Scoring (They have to outscore opponents in 4th qtr points to win; Teams are outscoring them in 4th qtr recently)
4. Points in the Paint (Kings are a jumpshooting team but need more cuts and easy layups from Bibby and Peja; I haven't seen any of these during this stretch. They have been outscored in the paint ridiculously and need to minimize opponent's points in the paint)

I'm referring back to the original post in this thread, since I REALLY don't want to have another thread turn into a discussion of trades.

I have no problem whatsoever agreeing with the four points as outlined above. What I'm interested in is whether or not we can work on and correct those deficiencies.

Of the four, I am least worried about #3. We have plenty of scorers. I think fatigue may have played a factor; plus not having Pedja out there loses us 20 points a night. Get him healthy and back and I see #3 going away.

Now, about the others:

1. Rebounds. We have guys who can rebound. We know they can rebound because we've seen them do it. The problem is that you can't be the shooter and the rebounder, too, and with our offense spread out the way it is, our chances at second-chance points seem to be slim to none. As far as defensive boards go, I don't know why they don't get more. I am totally flummoxed...

2. Defense. We know they can play defense. I think not having Pedja out there DOES make a difference on defense. A number of us have been commenting all season about how his defense has stepped up; I think it's apparent when he's either out or not feeling well. We do need to work on, however. Either that or score sooooooo many points we don't have to worry about defense.

4. Points in the paint. I confess to wondering who those guys are some times. Our lay-ups are some of the softest, marshmallow-like lay-ups in the history of the NBA. Yeah, outside jumpers are nice but I sure do like to see an occasional drive inside BY ANYONE just to keep it honest.

All in all, I think we have work to do, but I think it can be accomplished with the players at hand. Speaking of hands, I am waiting with baited breath for Bobby's return. He'll drive inside; heck, he'd drop from the roof if he could figure out how.

The team has had some difficulty but I remain confident they have the knowledge, the talent and the players to right the ship.



GO KINGS!!!!!

 

[AriesMar27]

if we have bobby back for the playoffs and the rest of the team healthy..... none of those things will bother me....i mean c'mon.... with bibby and bobby in the backcourt together during the 4th qtr..... they are going to score some serious points.... once bobby starts to attack the basket so will bibby and the minute that they stop, it will open up room for peja.

 

[Bricklayer]

if we have bobby back for the playoffs and the rest of the team healthy..... none of those things will bother me....i mean c'mon.... with bibby and bobby in the backcourt together during the 4th qtr..... they are going to score some serious points.... once bobby starts to attack the basket so will bibby and the minute that they stop, it will open up room for peja.

All of which won't help in the least if the other team is scoring every trip down the floor itself.

You can't score your way to a championship. Or at least nobody ever has to date. We know better than that. We've laughed at Dallas for years for trying to do the same thing (and of course failing).

 

[AriesMar27]

All of which won't help in the least if the other team is scoring every trip down the floor itself.

You can't score your way to a championship. Or at least nobody ever has to date. We know better than that. We've laughed at Dallas for years for trying to do the same thing (and of course failing).

very true.... but bobby can score and defend.... putting him on nash is better than having bibby on nash or parker, terry, the twolves dont count anymore..... etc. with bobby out you cant rest bibby or put him of the worst player..... that and bobby attacking the basket and hopefully getting to the ft line changes the way that the opposing teams defend everyone else because right now, no one has to worry about guarding the paint.

the idea of dumping the ball into webberor miller and having bibby AND bobby running around trying to get open is a scary thought....

 

[VF21]

very true.... but bobby can score and defend.... putting him on nash is better than having bibby on nash or parker, terry, the twolves dont count anymore..... etc. with bobby out you cant rest bibby or put him of the worst player..... that and bobby attacking the basket and hopefully getting to the ft line changes the way that the opposing teams defend everyone else because right now, no one has to worry about guarding the paint.

the idea of dumping the ball into webberor miller and having bibby AND bobby running around trying to get open is a scary thought....

Bobby can defend, but he's not going to turn the team around defensively and he has NEVER been known for his defensive prowess. He's a scorer - a burst of energy we could really use - but he's not going to solve anything on the other end. I mean, he can defend but he is NOT a "DEFENDER!"

It's not how other teams defend us that we really have to worry about. It's whether we stand out there like GPAM™ or DEFEND them that's the very crux of the matter.

 

[piksi]

Bobby can defend, but he's not going to turn the team around defensively and he has NEVER been known for his defensive prowess. He's a scorer - a burst of energy we could really use - but he's not going to solve anything on the other end. I mean, he can defend but he is NOT a "DEFENDER!"

It's not how other teams defend us that we really have to worry about. It's whether we stand out there like GPAM™ or DEFEND them that's the very crux of the matter.

Compared to Bibby, Jackson is a "defensive player of the year" candidate