Reality is upon us and it sucks....Bibbs and Ron Ron staying?

[Kingster]

Yeah but that's a gamble also IMO. You're gambling on the fact that they won't have a better year next despite the fact that Bibby has shown he can be a good 2nd/great 3rd option for someone. If they don't opt out he'll still probably have a good year next year and you'll be able to get more at the deadline. Ron is basically an expiring contract. I know Ron is crazy but if Rashard Lewis can get 120 million in this league, Ron(who is a better player) should be able to get about 10 per year. He's already implied he'll be opting out. There's no reason to take back bad contracts next year.

Let me ask you: Do you want to gamble on Artest not doing something stupid? He's got a proven track record of crazy. The Kings made the same bet you are making on The Greater Fool Theory. But with Artest, somebody is going to be holding the bag eventually and have absolutely ZERO in value for him. I don't want the Kings to be that team. If they get $.10 on the $1, so be it. When you really think about Artest and the damage he could do to a franchise, he could be a net NEGATIVE VALUE because of his antics and its affect on your team and its reputation.

So let me get this straight, Mike said at the beginning of last year he was ready to turn down 28 million so he could get a long term contract for less per year but he isn't going to turn down 14 million for a long term contract? That doesn't make much sense to me. Theus has already said things that give me a feeling he'll use Mike A LOT better than Muss and Mike shouldn't have the hand injury this year. Also the team should be running or atleast playing up tempo(as Reggie said) so that will inflate his APG numbers+get him some open baskets. And Ron already said he might opt out next year, knowing him he will especially if he wants to go to NY as badly as he supposedly does. Especially if he has a good year then he should opt out. For one, Justin is supposed to get a lot of PT and that should give Ron a shotblocker behind him so he'll be able to play tighter D instead of having to give them room for a 3 pointer/J so they don't drive past him. 2nd he'll be playing for a contract. It's likely he opts out.

It seems like you are banking on Bibby playing like he did in last year's preseason. Maybe yes. Maybe no. I'll grant you, I'd certainly give Bibby better odds than Artest of having a productive season if he stays. So hypothetically, let's say that he stays and he has a great season. Then he opts out. What have you got? You've got a season of watching Bibby have a great season. That's enjoyable. You may have the excitement of competing for the 8th playoff spot, providing everything else on the team goes swimmingly. Personally, that's not going to rock my world because I think we'll just continue to muddle in no-mans land. What else? Does his presence help you in building a team for the future? That's what I don't get. What's the payoff? I don't see how him taking minutes from Douby or Price (if they keep him) helps in the long term plans. If you get the 8th playoff seed, you get a lousy draft pick. If he opts out it helps with FA, but I'll take a high draft pick getting a great player any day over FA.

They brought in different types of players. All the players they've brought in were confident guys who came from winning teams and they brought in defensive players. When I play basketball and I'm missing shots sometimes I lose a lot of confidence, but when I'm on D there is no confidence to lose because you're just trying as hard as you can to stop the other guy from scoring. Okafor's not a scorer. Gerald's not really a scorer, he plays hard and that's not something that's really effected by confidence. Felton was mentored by Brevin Knight for his 1st year or 2 so he had a veteran in front of him helping him. May started to get injured and he's never really been able to stay healthy since then, he probably wasn't ready physically and that was hard on his body to play against guys who are bigger, stronger, and smarter especially when he's out of shape. Morrison got immediate minutes, sucked, and his confidence went down.

Good young players aren't going to be losing their confidence long term because they lose in their early years. I can see that in baseball, but as a general rule I don't buy it in basketball. Look, if we had four solid good character vets on this team, that's all we would need in my opinion. We have Miller for better or worse. We have Miki, whose supposed to be a great character guy. We have Martin, who is now going into his 4th year. Give me a Brevin Knight and that's all we need as far as vets. Everybody else can be under 25 and I'd be a happy camper.

Also I'd like to point out that the majority of the Kings youth have said Ron/Mike help them get better+teach them stuff. I remember hearing that Ron helped Douby get extra practice last year on one of the half time shows. You can tell that Ron has helped Justin as far as defensive court awareness goes because when you could hear what Justin was saying during the summer league(one of the games with no broadcaster) you could hear him say something like "don't worry man, don't foul him. I got it." So far Ron's "negativity" doesn't seem like it's rubbed off on the young players. Kevin's said he hopes Ron isn't traded and he makes his job easier or something like that. Douby+Justin practiced with Ron. It seemed to me that more of Ron's "Lockerroom problems" were run ins with veteran guys on the team. If you can find a way to get rid of a guy like Kenny that should make everyone in the lockerroom happier. Also remember a comment from Douby that was something like "well I try to learn a lot from Mike". These guys aren't hurting the young players IMO, they're helping them.

I've heard those quotes regarding Mike and Ron. But I'm very skeptical that the positive things they learn from Ron outweigh the negative. How often have you heard any NBA player directly rag on another? As for Bibby, well, maybe Douby can learn from another guard in the league, or from an ex-guard. A basketball player should have many teachers. Bibby and Ron aren't the only ones out there.

 

[BMiller52]

I am sick of responding to all the quoted points so I'll just do this:

Artest: Yes I DO want us to trade him but all that's supposedly been offered has been bad contracts and mediocre young players. Do you want to trade Ron's contract(basically expiring) for Jerome James/Jared Jeffries+Nate Robinson? I don't want to take on that kind of contract and the young players NY offers don't help us nearly enough to make it worth it. IF we can get expirings+ a pick/young player then sure, do the deal. But the only team who has for sure made an offer is NY, and all they have to give us is bad contracts+they won't give us Lee or Balkman.

Bibby: Or he could play well for half a season, say he's not opting out, and then you trade him for more than you can right now. Or he opts out. He's probably going to play well next year and I'm not going on what I saw during preseason, I'm going on what I saw during the 2 seasons before Musselman and the injury. I don't see why he can't have a 20/7 year, in which case his trade value goes through the roof or he opts out.

Young player confidence issue: We'll agree to disagree a bit on this one.

Artest/Bibby: The point is these guys do help the young players. They are going to be able to teach them more than a Mikki Moore or a Brevin Knight can. What is Garcia going to learn from Moore or Miller? Nothing. Douby isn't the same type of player as Knight, but he has a chance to be a bit similar to Bibby on offense. So he might as well learn all he can from Mike. My point is, these guys aren't killing the growth of all the young players like everyone says.

 

[CruzDude]

I think we need to trade Bibby and get what ever is the max value for him we can get. But his $13.5M albatross is, in the ESPN vernacular, a "Show Killer". But some useable players, a 3-4 team parlay and maybe a draft choice or two could help. I think it is time to find a "real" PG. Bibbs is not a real PG.

Whether Shakur or someone else, maybe it is time to move on. Bibbs is great but even he is admiting maybe it is time to move on. A real PG can take advantage of the scoring bigs the Kings now have. And with the gazelles (KMart, Garcia, Douby) running the butts off the competition along with running bigs, life gets a whole lot more interesting and maybe 40 wins this year.

Artest can be major help once he understands his role on the team and supports his role 100% on the court. If that, then we get an all-star back and one of the best defenders in the league. Then his digs and steals feed the "gazelles" and we're OFF!!!