Prince Could Be Option For Kings

Vlade4GM said:
If Cousins is gone that means Johnson is available, and if he's available, giving up the 5th pick would be dumb.
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Yeah, we disagree on this. Im not sold on Johnson at all. It seems like all the Kings fans started loving Wesley Johnson after we got screwed and got the 5th overall pick. Go figure. I dont believe Johnson is worth picking at #5 for the Kings. Im sure that sounds outlandish.
 
Chupacabra said:
Yeah, we disagree on this. Im not sold on Johnson at all. It seems like all the Kings fans started loving Wesley Johnson after we got screwed and got the 5th overall pick. Go figure. I dont believe Johnson is worth picking at #5 for the Kings. Im sure that sounds outlandish.
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Well I can only speak for myself, but I liked Johnson all year. I had to fall back in love with him after the lottery though because I was so enamored with the likes of Favors and Turner. Johnson is very much worth the 5th pick and he's a lot better than anyone else after him.
 
Chupacabra said:
Yeah, we disagree on this. Im not sold on Johnson at all. It seems like all the Kings fans started loving Wesley Johnson after we got screwed and got the 5th overall pick. Go figure. I dont believe Johnson is worth picking at #5 for the Kings. Im sure that sounds outlandish.
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I can't speak for all the other fans, but I've liked Johnson all year long. I've had him as high as the third pick in the draft at one point on my personal board. In truth, the only reaso Favors is ranked higher than Johnson is because he's taller, bigger and has suspossed upside. But I can almost guarantee you that in a one on one battle right now that Johnson would win. And thats no disrespect to Favors.

I think Johnson will be a better NBA player than he was a college player. He played in a restrictive Syracuse offense and many times played out of his natural position.. In short, I think he's going to be a very good player. I'm not going to get as excited about him as I would Cousins, but I'd be more excited about him than I would Monroe.
 
I think some people want their elite shooting guards to be dominant one on one players. Sure Johnson isn't great at creating his own shot but he does so many other things really well. I think he is going to be a fantastic defender, shooter and all around team player. I personally believe only Cousins would have a greater impact on the Kings upcoming season.
 
bajaden said:
I can't speak for all the other fans, but I've liked Johnson all year long. I've had him as high as the third pick in the draft at one point on my personal board. In truth, the only reaso Favors is ranked higher than Johnson is because he's taller, bigger and has suspossed upside. But I can almost guarantee you that in a one on one battle right now that Johnson would win. And thats no disrespect to Favors.

I think Johnson will be a better NBA player than he was a college player. He played in a restrictive Syracuse offense and many times played out of his natural position.. In short, I think he's going to be a very good player. I'm not going to get as excited about him as I would Cousins, but I'd be more excited about him than I would Monroe.
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I believe in Johnson, I think down the road he's always going to be in the discussion of the best players in this draft. I don't know if he'll be talked about as number 1, but perhaps 2nd or 3rd if he works hard and lands in a good situation.
 
I do NOT want to see the Kings trade down. To me this is a five player draft and the two most likely to be available when the Kings pick are the two that I think would fit the best a compliment to Tyreke - Cousins and Johnson.

I like Turner's game a lot and I see him as an ideal complimentary player. I don't see him as a star in the NBA and I don't see him as a great backcourt mate to Tyreke since they are both ball dominant guards who do their scoring near the basket. Having a starting backcourt that is deficient in terms of outside shooting is not a good plan.

And I think Favors will be a monster in transition and has the potential to be a star I think he's more raw than people realize. I think he'd fit better in New Jersey alongside Lopez or in Minnesota if they are committed to being an uptempo team.

Johnson gives the Kings a SG (I think he can man the position just fine) with great size for the position, the ability to eventually be a very good defender, quickness to run in transition and finish on the break, spot up to open things up for Tyreke or make defenses pay for collapsing, good rebounding, good movement off the ball and a good attitude for the locker room. Even his ballhandling is much better than everyone seems to give him credit for. Better than Garcia I'd say.

I look at him and see the ideal fit next to Tyreke in the backcourt. Every "expert" seems to think the Kings need a true PG so Tyreke can slide to the 2. I want a big SG so that the Kings can continue to have a major mismatch and Evans can abuse smaller guards on offense.

And as for Cousins, he would make the Kings a bruising halfcourt team and solidify the two positions hardest to fill - PG and C. The Kings would still ideally need to find a SG to pair with Tyreke so Beno could come off the bench in a three man rotation but I see Evans and Cousins being the foundation of a team that would be built for playoff basketball. And finding a complimentary SG in free agency is a much easier task than finding a franchise center.
 
funkykingston said:
I do NOT want to see the Kings trade down. To me this is a five player draft and the two most likely to be available when the Kings pick are the two that I think would fit the best a compliment to Tyreke - Cousins and Johnson.

I like Turner's game a lot and I see him as an ideal complimentary player. I don't see him as a star in the NBA and I don't see him as a great backcourt mate to Tyreke since they are both ball dominant guards who do their scoring near the basket. Having a starting backcourt that is deficient in terms of outside shooting is not a good plan.

And I think Favors will be a monster in transition and has the potential to be a star I think he's more raw than people realize. I think he'd fit better in New Jersey alongside Lopez or in Minnesota if they are committed to being an uptempo team.

Johnson gives the Kings a SG (I think he can man the position just fine) with great size for the position, the ability to eventually be a very good defender, quickness to run in transition and finish on the break, spot up to open things up for Tyreke or make defenses pay for collapsing, good rebounding, good movement off the ball and a good attitude for the locker room. Even his ballhandling is much better than everyone seems to give him credit for. Better than Garcia I'd say.

I look at him and see the ideal fit next to Tyreke in the backcourt. Every "expert" seems to think the Kings need a true PG so Tyreke can slide to the 2. I want a big SG so that the Kings can continue to have a major mismatch and Evans can abuse smaller guards on offense.

And as for Cousins, he would make the Kings a bruising halfcourt team and solidify the two positions hardest to fill - PG and C. The Kings would still ideally need to find a SG to pair with Tyreke so Beno could come off the bench in a three man rotation but I see Evans and Cousins being the foundation of a team that would be built for playoff basketball. And finding a complimentary SG in free agency is a much easier task than finding a franchise center.
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Well said. The other thing about SGs... you can get one in free agency Centers? Not so much.
 
I wouldn't even dream of taking Cousins ahead of Favors, but that doesn't matter since we have absolutely no shot at Favors.
 
Without involving the picks im all for prince. Big expiring contracts could prove to be very valuable come all-star break.
 
Vlade4GM said:
I wouldn't even dream of taking Cousins ahead of Favors, but that doesn't matter since we have absolutely no shot at Favors.
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I actually have always wanted Favors over Cousins...but am warming up to Demarcus as a King, I think this just might be the right situation for him, ala Chris Webber.
 
No Prince for the Kings. Even if they take Nocioni's contract, its still not worth it. You'll get rid of the contract 1 yr ahead of time as Prince's contract is even larger this yr even though its expiring. If we can get DC at #5, it'll probably be one of the worse moves ever... even if DC only turns out to be average.
 
funkykingston said:
I look at (Johnson) and see the ideal fit next to Tyreke in the backcourt. Every "expert" seems to think the Kings need a true PG so Tyreke can slide to the 2. I want a big SG so that the Kings can continue to have a major mismatch and Evans can abuse smaller guards on offense.
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Johnson's 0 inches taller, and 10 lbs heavier than Kevin Martin. What about him do you think will give us the mismatches that Kevin didn't?
 
fnordius said:
Johnson's 0 inches taller, and 10 lbs heavier than Kevin Martin. What about him do you think will give us the mismatches that Kevin didn't?
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Kevin played like he was 6'5, while Johnson plays like he is 6'8. KMart never used his height effectively, and often looked smaller than opposing SGs who were actually the smaller player. I don't know how that can work, but I have seen it too many times.
 
fnordius said:
Johnson's 0 inches taller, and 10 lbs heavier than Kevin Martin. What about him do you think will give us the mismatches that Kevin didn't?
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Teams never had any fear guarding Kevin with smaller players. He had no post game, wasn't going to abuse them physically, and actually often struggled more against quick defenders tha strong ones.

That said, given Johnson's shaky handle and jumpshooting game I am not sure how different that would be with him. Probably some, but ideally you would want a big athletic guy able to instantly post a PG if they switch over onto him, and with the ability to take little guards to the basket and punsih them for their lack of size. That's when the walking mismatch thing will really kick in in future years. Just being tall isn't enough to ensure it if you're primarily a jumpshooter or struggle to create your own offense. To put teams in between Scylla and Charybdis you need a guy with teh tools to punish smaller players. Team that with Reke and every team with a PG shorter than 6'3" is going to be scrambling all game trying to cover for the obvious mismatch problem. If we could just get the right guy we could eternally torture teams with a mismatch advantage for year after year.
 
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Well, according to this guy, Chad Ford is reporting that Geoff has offered Detroit the 5th pick + NOC for the 7th pick + Prince....

I have to say, I think it's a BS rumor...trading one small forward for another doesn't really help us...Neither does trading down to a point where Johnson, Cousins, and Monroe could all likely be gone.
 
Whether or not the rumor is true, the below deal is why "tanking" pays off. Det. and Sac. had similar records near the end of the season. The difference between the 5th and 7th pick is worth $$ and/or talent.

I'm not saying I want that deal, but let's just say I'm glad we're not picking 7th.

That deal might actually be pretty good if Cousins isn't there at 5 and we can get a 3rd team to take Prince while we get a young prospect.

Widowmaker2k said:
Well, according to this guy, Chad Ford is reporting that Geoff has offered Detroit the 5th pick + NOC for the 7th pick + Prince....
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mr. moustache said:
Whether or not the rumor is true, the below deal is why "tanking" pays off. Det. and Sac. had similar records near the end of the season. The difference between the 5th and 7th pick is worth $$ and/or talent.

I'm not saying I want that deal, but let's just say I'm glad we're not picking 7th.

That deal might actually be pretty good if Cousins isn't there at 5 and we can get a 3rd team to take Prince while we get a young prospect.
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So in other words, it's a good deal if we can then take Prince and get a better deal for him than Detroit could? I think that means it's not a good deal. Does this trade get us a young talent or better draft pick? No, the opposite. The draft pick thing could be a wash if Geoff wants to pick Monroe anyway, but I don't see how drafting Monroe and saving about 6 million in 2012 makes this a better team now or in the future.
 
hrdboild said:
So in other words, it's a good deal if we can then take Prince and get a better deal for him than Detroit could? I think that means it's not a good deal. Does this trade get us a young talent or better draft pick? No, the opposite. The draft pick thing could be a wash if Geoff wants to pick Monroe anyway, but I don't see how drafting Monroe and saving about 6 million in 2012 makes this a better team now or in the future.
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Free agent market will be better for the Kings next year. Most of the teams will probably be well over budget when the CBA is good and done.
 
I dont think Johnson is going to give the Kings much that the current SF on the team dont already give. Firstly, I think that Minnesota will take him at 4, but if they take cousins and he's the one left, then I would trade Noc and hopefully Hawes, along with the 5th pick for Prince and 7th pick. I think GSW would be more likely to go for Aminu than Monroe, so I'd take my chances that he's available at 7.

If Cousins is available I take him at 5th and forget about Prince. I honestly believe that his attitude issues are greatly overstated. Either way, on the court, he is far better than Spencer "I'm a lazy sack of crap" Hawes, so I'd be willing to take the risk on him. His upside is far more than his potential downside. I dont think this is a guy that would (if things went bad) destroy a locker room...maybe just himself if even that. IF he works well with Tyreke, he could change the long term prospects of the franchise...if not, well, at least he'll be on a rookie contract and the kings will still have huge cap space for FA next year, plus they'll get another (hopefully better) lottery pick next year as well.
 
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cwebb2002 said:
I dont think Johnson is going to give the Kings much that the current SF on the team dont already give. Firstly, I think that Minnesota will take him at 4, but if they take cousins and he's the one left, then I would trade Noc and hopefully Hawes, along with the 5th pick for Prince and 7th pick. I think GSW would be more likely to go for Aminu than Monroe, so I'd take my chances that he's available at 7.

If Cousins is available I take him at 5th and forget about Prince. I honestly believe that his attitude issues are greatly overstated. Either way, on the court, he is far better than Spencer "I'm a lazy sack of crap" Hawes, so I'd be willing to take the risk on him. His upside is far more than his potential downside. I dont think this is a guy that would (if things went bad) destroy a locker room...maybe just himself if even that. IF he works well with Tyreke, he could change the long term prospects of the franchise...if not, well, at least he'll be on a rookie contract and the kings will still have huge cap space for FA next year, plus they'll get another (hopefully better) lottery pick next year as well.
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?? Noc+Hawes+5th for 7th+Prince is terrible. Noc+5th for Prince+7th is bad enough, but now we're just throwing in young 7 footers? I mean, I too have been disappointed with Spencer, but he's not a bad contract that we're looking to give away.
 
Bricklayer said:
Teams never had any fear guarding Kevin with smaller players. He had no post game, wasn't going to abuse them physically, and actually often struggled more against quick defenders tha strong ones.

That said, given Johnson's shaky handle and jumpshooting game I am not sure how different that would be with him. Probably some, but ideally you would want a big athletic guy able to instantly post a PG if they switch over onto him, and with the ability to take little guards to the basket and punsih them for their lack of size. That's when the walking mismatch thing will really kick in in future years. Just being tall isn't enough to ensure it if you're primarily a jumpshooter or struggle to create your own offense. To put teams in between Scylla and Charybdis you need a guy with teh tools to punish smaller players. Team that with Reke and every team with a PG shorter than 6'3" is going to be scrambling all game trying to cover for the obvious mismatch problem. If we could just get the right guy we could eternally torture teams with a mismatch advantage for year after year.
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Johnson is as physical as they come on the wing. If the other team puts a guard on him they're toast. I've seen him post up NBA sized PF's with success.
 
Let me preface this by saying I doubt Cousins will on the board at 5 and I’m not sure either side is still kicking the deal around, but 5 and Garcia to the Pistons for Price and 7 – would give the Kings a frontcourt of Price, Landry, and Delambert – which is really solid and actually fits/compliments each other.


(Note, the Kings only make this trade if they conclude Cousins is too risky for their blood.)

Beno, Evans, Prince, Landry, and Delambert


With a Thompson, Green, Caspi, bench and perhaps Monroe bench … resign Brockman and throw in another solid shooting combo guard in free agency. That would be a very physical and decent team.


If you kept everybody, there is no reason to believe it wouldn’t be a decent squad for 3-4 years, until you put a better core around Evans.


One downside, is the entire front line would be free agents after this summer. With the new CBA, Prince and Delambert are almost certainly headed for pay cuts. If they pass, you've got a ton of cap.


It’s a lot of ifs, but with a purported win now mentality – this is possible and not horrible.
 
First, I said that I didn’t know whether a trade was likely. But the Pistons need a 5 and they probably realize they will need to trade up to get a good one. There is a lot of logic behind the story.

Finally, it’s pretty funny that your post is – it’s my conjecture that his conjecture should not be believed. Would you like to be the pot or the kettle?
 
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