Preseason Kings vs. Maccabi Haifa Game Thread

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#91
Ahh, now I understand how Warrior fans feel when they get to relax while their team manhandles the Kings. Good feelings all around.

I'm sure there will be at least a few games like this during the season, right?
We play the Hawks twice at least.
 
#96
Can't wait the last 2 preseason games. I guess we will see regular season rotation, so we can judge our chances against NBA competition. If Bjeli is healthy and Yogi is rock & rolling, that would make us so much better, in addition to growing confidence of our young bigs.
 
#97
Kings looked good but given the competition should have. It will be interesting how they play against Utah.

29 3 point attempts for a 44% 3 point shooting team doesn’t get it done however. If they averaged 29 they would still be outside the top 15 in attempts. Jeoger simply has to get them more 3 point attempts.
 
#99
There is a lot of young players showing some hot and miss. This was the passive Fox who I didn’t notice on the floor, in comparison to potential franchise player Fox. Maybe part of growing pains getting that consistency
 
There is a lot of young players showing some hot and miss. This was the passive Fox who I didn’t notice on the floor, in comparison to potential franchise player Fox. Maybe part of growing pains getting that consistency
This was Fox's worse preseason game. He did seem like he was coasting, but I think playing against a lesser opponent which allowed the Kings to take their feet off the breaks and just do whatever. They were able to have fun tonight and just share the rock to get everyone involved. We had 36asts tonight..and I would be very surprised if we had more than 10 35+asts games in the regular season. As a result, Fox was a bit more lax. Since everyone was able to score and get their shots going in, he didn't need to take over the game unlike the others.
 
Yeah. I’ve been one of the most ardent Buddy must start proponents, but it may be what it is.
I think the key is what buddy is saying to the coaches and what he wants. There might be a few growing pains, but at end of day i want buddy happy and want the team to give him his opportunities as a starter to make his place. If HE wants to be the 6th man then by all means let it be so. Him and Bogs are even in my book so either or as our starter is fine. I expect a whole lot of fox bogs and bield on court together this year.
 
Yeah. I’ve been one of the most ardent Buddy must start proponents, but it may be what it is.

He seemed to do just fine the other night starting next to Fox. It seems like anything he does as a starter is ignored and when he has an off night it's right back to the "he's a bad starter" mantra. It's garbage. Playing this teams main talent components together is simply mandatory. If they can't perform well together then moves should be made because retaining them in this fashion might not be possible.
 
Is WCS good? I appreciate the numbers but, as I’ve contended for three years, he’s not and I’d prefer him not taking Giles starting minutes and even Koufos minutes
Wcs still has about as much potential as you’ll ever see as a big. He’s insanely athletic, fast, and has a long wingspan. He’s also shown he can hit wide open 3s. His skill set on the surface level should be everything you want in a modern big. Unfortunately the one thing that has always held him back and prevented him from becoming what he should be is his motor. He doesn’t show any aggression on the boards, often losing rebounds to guys much smaller than him. He doesn’t bang in the post on defense so his rim protection is poor. He also hasn’t developed any sort of post game at all despite being more agile than the majority of people that guard him. It’s frustrating because He doesn’t seem like a guy that strives to be great, instead he seems like he knows what the minimum is he has to do to get one or two moderate paydays. The thing that scares me is that he is just good enough to string together a couple of monster games that could convince a poor gm he is worth a significantly higher payday than he is worth. Unfortunately we have that kind of gm.
 
Ahh, now I understand how Warrior fans feel when they get to relax while their team manhandles the Kings. Good feelings all around.

I'm sure there will be at least a few games like this during the season, right?
So you are saying the Kings are to Maccabi and the W's are to the Kings?:)
 
That's gonna suck because that means Donovan is going to be abusing FMIII all night.
Maybe yes, but Frank Mason is a fighter and I think Joerger would rather have Buddy as the firepower off the bench than have to guard elite wings as a starter and get lost offensively for it. Pretty sure Joerger has that starting SG saved for Bogi and is leaning towards just using Mason as his substitute, or sliding Fox to the 2, however you want to look at it. Mason for all the hate he has gotten here has had a very good pre season.
 
Wcs still has about as much potential as you’ll ever see as a big. He’s insanely athletic, fast, and has a long wingspan. He’s also shown he can hit wide open 3s. His skill set on the surface level should be everything you want in a modern big. Unfortunately the one thing that has always held him back and prevented him from becoming what he should be is his motor. He doesn’t show any aggression on the boards, often losing rebounds to guys much smaller than him. He doesn’t bang in the post on defense so his rim protection is poor. He also hasn’t developed any sort of post game at all despite being more agile than the majority of people that guard him. It’s frustrating because He doesn’t seem like a guy that strives to be great, instead he seems like he knows what the minimum is he has to do to get one or two moderate paydays. The thing that scares me is that he is just good enough to string together a couple of monster games that could convince a poor gm he is worth a significantly higher payday than he is worth. Unfortunately we have that kind of gm.

If you look at willie's trajectory, he's evolving from a defense first type to a true triple-threat!!!

Thats a VERY good thing/sign! There's a lot of context that seems to be flying over heads here when it comes to WCS.
 
Rim protection is a team effort where the big guy takes a lot of the credit at the end. Thats not what goes on here with the Kings, especially vs ANY TEAM WITH A STAR SF who can create offense off the dribble --- which is a bunch of them, especially out west.


this is also the great failure of the Justin Jackson over OG Anunoby pick.. *sigh*

Willie is exceptional at anticipating steals too. the people complaining about his rim protection never seem to mention this. I think its conceivable he can avg 1.5 stls per game, Which is a Millsap-ian #.
 
Good to see JJ get the 3 ball going tonight. Maybe more important is he wasn't shy about firing away with 12 shots in 23 minutes. Confident JJ can be a good NBA player as we saw in Summer league. Passive JJ is going to be out of the league in 2 years.
JJ may be better suited to come off the bench where he can be a "go to" scorer with the second unit. He defers too much when he is with the starting unit on most every night.

He needs to come in aggressive to be effective, and he can be more aggressive if he is a top scoring option off the bench.
 
I’m not going to take much from this game. The competition was just not nba caliber for the most part.

Now starting Thursday though, I’d like to see the rotation get dialed in as much as possible until Bogi comes back.

I’m just not a believer in JJ. His age and his production are worrisome and to me he is a guy who gets time at the end of the bench.......unless he starts knocking down his 3’s at a clip closer to 40% than 30%. If he can’t, he needs to be off the floor. Bjelly has to play to stretch the floor. Getting Bogi back is huge for this team. Ride the hot hand of Yogi and or Hield when they are hot, play the vets Koufos, Shumpert, Zbo, Ben when the youngsters are struggling but stay with the youngsters.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
This was Fox's worse preseason game. He did seem like he was coasting, but I think playing against a lesser opponent which allowed the Kings to take their feet off the breaks and just do whatever. They were able to have fun tonight and just share the rock to get everyone involved. We had 36asts tonight..and I would be very surprised if we had more than 10 35+asts games in the regular season. As a result, Fox was a bit more lax. Since everyone was able to score and get their shots going in, he didn't need to take over the game unlike the others.
If you take note of a lot of the truly great PG's that have played in the NBA, like Stockton, Nash, Kidd, and I would certainly add Chris Paul to that group, they would have nights where they scored, and they would have nights when the team was clicking, and they wouldn't score as much. The great PG's are team first players, and they will rise to the occasion when the team needs it. Not trying to put Fox into that group just yet, but his team didn't need him to score last night. He did make some very nice passes though, and he was the initiator of quite a few plays.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
If you look at willie's trajectory, he's evolving from a defense first type to a true triple-threat!!!

Thats a VERY good thing/sign! There's a lot of context that seems to be flying over heads here when it comes to WCS.
People make up their minds about players early on, and then seem incapable of changing that opinion down the road. Players get better. Some sooner than others. I've said it zillion times, Willie came to the game late, so from the get go, he was going to take more time. My main knock on Willie has nothing to do with his skill set, but with his mentality. He knows how to play the game, he just has to let it go. Or as Mac likes to hear me say, his problem is strictly between his ears.

I thought he had a very nice game last night in limited minutes. He played within what the team was trying to do, made some very nice passes, grabbed some boards etc. On a team loaded with a lot of very talented young players, not every one of those players can put up 20 and 10 on the same night. This team is sorting itself out and trying to find it's playing level. This is going to take a while, but it will get done as the season progresses.

Put another way, if Willie can play 28 to 30 minutes a night, and put up 14 pts, 8 to 9 boards, 4 to 5 assists, a couple of steals and a block, and the team wins, then what more do you want? Every player on the team can't be a star, and right now, the team is trying to figure out who is going to be the go to guy. Who is the number one, two, three, and four option. Right now, all of that is up for grabs. When they do figure that out, then we'll have a viable team.

To many times, people want to make things an either/or situation. It's like, if we have Giles, then we can't have Willie. Pure nonsense! It's just a matter of everyone know what their role is and contributing to the team. It's not Giles first, or Bagley first, it's team first. Period!
 
People make up their minds about players early on, and then seem incapable of changing that opinion down the road. Players get better. Some sooner than others. I've said it zillion times, Willie came to the game late, so from the get go, he was going to take more time. My main knock on Willie has nothing to do with his skill set, but with his mentality. He knows how to play the game, he just has to let it go. Or as Mac likes to hear me say, his problem is strictly between his ears.

I thought he had a very nice game last night in limited minutes. He played within what the team was trying to do, made some very nice passes, grabbed some boards etc. On a team loaded with a lot of very talented young players, not every one of those players can put up 20 and 10 on the same night. This team is sorting itself out and trying to find it's playing level. This is going to take a while, but it will get done as the season progresses.

Put another way, if Willie can play 28 to 30 minutes a night, and put up 14 pts, 8 to 9 boards, 4 to 5 assists, a couple of steals and a block, and the team wins, then what more do you want? Every player on the team can't be a star, and right now, the team is trying to figure out who is going to be the go to guy. Who is the number one, two, three, and four option. Right now, all of that is up for grabs. When they do figure that out, then we'll have a viable team.

To many times, people want to make things an either/or situation. It's like, if we have Giles, then we can't have Willie. Pure nonsense! It's just a matter of everyone know what their role is and contributing to the team. It's not Giles first, or Bagley first, it's team first. Period!
I get what you are saying but I think the problem will be rotations, or to put it more succinctly who starts and who comes off the bench. When Cuz was here I thought Willie could be the perfect compliment to him as a rim running, defense switching player. When Cuz was traded I was curious to see how Willie responded.

Well, the results were that Willie is not much of a threat to score the ball. Hes a Tyson Chandler, a John Salley, a Kevin Willis (almost). A Udonis Haslim, again almost. He doesnt have the ceiling of Giles or Bagley.

I fear he is going to want to be PAID and START and I just dont see him a starter for the price when those 2 are here. And I dont know if he would be OK being relegated to an off the bench role since he has been here so long and in the league for so long. I think Willie has an idea in his head that he is a franchise center and the eye test says no.

He is a serviceable player but to me he is more of a Jason Thompson/Scot Pollard hybrid. That isnt a starter making major bucks.

Even just watching his moves on the block last night it is easy to see there isnt much fluidity to them as there is when Giles attacks with the finger roll or Bagley spins and flips. You can see what can happen once both Goles and Bagley get up to game speed. Willie is too clunky. He doesnt have that finesse.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I get what you are saying but I think the problem will be rotations, or to put it more succinctly who starts and who comes off the bench. When Cuz was here I thought Willie could be the perfect compliment to him as a rim running, defense switching player. When Cuz was traded I was curious to see how Willie responded.

Well, the results were that Willie is not much of a threat to score the ball. Hes a Tyson Chandler, a John Salley, a Kevin Willis (almost). A Udonis Haslim, again almost. He doesnt have the ceiling of Giles or Bagley.

I fear he is going to want to be PAID and START and I just dont see him a starter for the price when those 2 are here. And I dont know if he would be OK being relegated to an off the bench role since he has been here so long and in the league for so long. I think Willie has an idea in his head that he is a franchise center and the eye test says no.

He is a serviceable player but to me he is more of a Jason Thompson/Scot Pollard hybrid. That isnt a starter making major bucks.

Even just watching his moves on the block last night it is easy to see there isnt much fluidity to them as there is when Giles attacks with the finger roll or Bagley spins and flips. You can see what can happen once both Goles and Bagley get up to game speed. Willie is too clunky. He doesnt have that finesse.
Well I don't totally disagree with you. My argument is that some people try to make it an either/or situation, and I don't think that's the case. If Giles or Bagley out play Willie and one of them is capable of taking his job as the starting center, then so be it. But I'd like their play on the floor to determine that, and it will. It's not a sin for Giles to end up being a superior player to Willie, and that wouldn't make Willie an expendable player. Where we would probably agree is that Willie should be paid based on his abilities. The Kings shouldn't overpay to keep him if they think he's asking for more than he's worth.

If he doesn't live up to expectations this season, whatever those are, because they're probably different depending on who you talk to, but if he doesn't, and still asks for the moon, I'm sure some team out there will offer something close to what he wants. The grass is always greener from across the street, and from afar, you tend to see what Willie should be capable of, while what he's accomplished becomes a bit blurred. For me, it's mostly about results. I try not to get attached to any player. Which I admit is hard at times.
 
Well I don't totally disagree with you. My argument is that some people try to make it an either/or situation, and I don't think that's the case. If Giles or Bagley out play Willie and one of them is capable of taking his job as the starting center, then so be it. But I'd like their play on the floor to determine that, and it will. It's not a sin for Giles to end up being a superior player to Willie, and that wouldn't make Willie an expendable player. Where we would probably agree is that Willie should be paid based on his abilities. The Kings shouldn't overpay to keep him if they think he's asking for more than he's worth.

If he doesn't live up to expectations this season, whatever those are, because they're probably different depending on who you talk to, but if he doesn't, and still asks for the moon, I'm sure some team out there will offer something close to what he wants. The grass is always greener from across the street, and from afar, you tend to see what Willie should be capable of, while what he's accomplished becomes a bit blurred. For me, it's mostly about results. I try not to get attached to any player. Which I admit is hard at times.
There is a nice article in the athletic today about WCS, relationship with Vlade and Peja, and what the expectations are for the year. You've got to pay (or sign up for the free trial) to read, but so far I've been much more impressed with Jason Jones' work in the Athletic vs. the Bee.

https://theathletic.com/550551/2018...ef-in-him-and-earn-a-big-payday/?redirected=1
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
There is a nice article in the athletic today about WCS, relationship with Vlade and Peja, and what the expectations are for the year. You've got to pay (or sign up for the free trial) to read, but so far I've been much more impressed with Jason Jones' work in the Athletic vs. the Bee.

https://theathletic.com/550551/2018...ef-in-him-and-earn-a-big-payday/?redirected=1
Yeah, I'm probably going to sign up. I belong to so many different things I can't keep track of all of them. None of them individually cost that much, but when you have a bunch of them, it adds up. However, too many of my favorite writers are a part of the Athletic, so I'll have to cave.
 
Yeah, I'm probably going to sign up. I belong to so many different things I can't keep track of all of them. None of them individually cost that much, but when you have a bunch of them, it adds up. However, too many of my favorite writers are a part of the Athletic, so I'll have to cave.
The Athletic has pilfered some of the very best out there.
 
Yeah, I'm probably going to sign up. I belong to so many different things I can't keep track of all of them. None of them individually cost that much, but when you have a bunch of them, it adds up. However, too many of my favorite writers are a part of the Athletic, so I'll have to cave.
I signed up for the free trial to give Jones a second chance, and to get other content on the site. Have kept it at this point and so far I think it's worth it. We'll see once the season gets going how Jones covers the team over the daily grind of the season.

The new beat writer at the bee also doesn't seem half bad. Willing to give him a chance, but seems like you only get to read a few bee articles for free a month. Definitely no way I'm paying a subscription for that!