Preseason Grades v. Warriors 12/17/11

These kinds of play breakdowns are just fantastic to read.

Thanks for the efforts, cuad - keep them up whenever you want - it shows what (many times) is missed in the game thread and the grade thread. :thumbsup:

I agreed. People usually see what they want to see.

As for Jimmer, being a rookie in his first game and was able to improve defensively in half a game is very good to hear (actually great to hear). And from reading all the comments, it seems he's already an offensive threat. So far it's a good pick.
 
Wow, that already has 40000 views.

You may have noticed that this particular guard carries forward a lot of hype from college.

Just as an aside, people forget or are just to young to have seen it, but back in the day this is the way for ALL the top rookies. Everybody stayed 4 years and had huge name recognition, storylines behind them, and dedicared fanbases as they came into the league. Whatever team got them earned a legion of college fans as well. One of the reasons why I have always thought an age limit benefits the NBA -- free hype and publicity for the league's incoming players.
 
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Sloppy offense led to a lot of fastbreaks for the Warriors. Silly fouls. Players falling for pump fakes. I don't include those here, but they definitely hurt the Kings.

Q4 10:00 - Francisco runs over to double team David Lee. His assignment runs straight under the basket and is picked up by Tyreke Evans. When David Lee passes the ball out of the double team, Francisco runs to the opposite side of the floor to pick up Monta Ellis, who was Tyreke's assignment before he picked up Dominic McGuire. Tyreke runs back to Ellis, too, leaving McGuire open under the basket for a dunk.
FAULT: Tyreke Evans or Francisco Garcia. They need to talk.

Q4 7:46 - This didn't really hurt the Kings directly because Isaiah was able to recover, but Isaiah Thomas and JJ Hickson do not ice the sideline pick and roll, which results in Garcia fouling a three point shooter.
FAULT: JJ Hickson or Isaiah Thomas. I highly doubt that JJ Hickson yelled "ICE! ICE! ICE!"

Q4 6:47 - Isaiah Thomas and JJ Hickson ice the sideline pick and roll and the warriors promptly turn the ball over. This is not a coincidence.

Q4 6:20 - No really does anything wrong here, but this play would have NEVER happened if the Kings iced the sideline pick and roll.

Q4 5:25 - Tyreke's feet aren't shading Monta to the left or the right. Monta blows by Tyreke to the right and gets a layup. Somebody has to yell "weak!" so Tyreke doesn't let Monta go right. That's what coach Thibodeaux does. I guarantee you that Monta's shot does not go in if he's using his left hand.
FAULT: Tyreke Evans

Q4 4:17 - Isaiah Thomas loses his assignment after a shot goes up, so he doesn't box out. Stephen Curry gets the offensive rebound and an uncontested lay up. This play happens because Isaiah lets Curry go up on a down screen.
FAULT: Isaiah Thomas

Q4 3:47 - The Warriors run the exact same play that they do at 7:46 and the Kings play it the same way. They hedge the sideline pick and roll instead of icing it. The Warriors get the exact same corner three point shot. This play is completely negated if they ice the sideline pick and roll instead. The Warriors miss the three. Tyreke gives up an offensive rebound and tries to flop as Curry is blowing by him. Curry gets an open jumpshot and two points.
FAULT: Tyreke Evans

Q4 3:16 - Marcus Thornton gives Monta Ellis the middle of the floor in transition. Monta gets a lay up.
FAULT: Marcus Thornton

Q4 2:26 - JJ Hickson decides to leave his assignment to guard Ekpe Udoh 20 feet away from the basket, which throws off the Kings whole rotation resulting in an open three for Curry.
FAULT: JJ Hickson

Q4 2:05 - Jason Thompson and Marcus Thornton try to ice the sideline pick and roll, but Thompson isn't low enough to stop the drive. The Warriors get an and-1 lay up.
FAULT: Jason Thompson

Q4 1:06 - A shot goes up and Jimmer forgets about boxing out.
FAULT: Jimmer Fredette

Q4 0:42 - Tyler Honeycutt lets a Warrior get to the middle of the floor. The Kings defense scrambles to give help but the Warriors get an open shot anyway. This play is completely negated if Tyler Honeycutt denies the middle.
FAULT: Tyler Honeycutt

quarter totals:

Tyreke Evans..........3
Francisco Garcia......1
JJ Hickson..............2
Isaiah Thomas........2
Marcus Thornton.....1
Jason Thompson.....1
Jimmer Fredette......1
Tyler Honeycutt.......1

game totals - total min - breakdown/min:
Tyreke Evans.................11...................36:21.....0.303
Marcus Thornton.............9....................34:57.....0.258
Jimmer Fredette..............8....................34:44.....0.230
Jason Thompson.............7....................32:07.....0.218
Donte Greene.................6....................18:12......0.330
JJ Hickson......................5...................32:16.......0.155
Isaiah Thomas................4....................22:04......0.181
Francisco Garcia..............3....................13:50......0.217
Hassan Whiteside............3....................12:23......0.242
Tyler Honeycutt...............1.....................1:02......0.968
 
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You may have noticed that this particular guard carries forward a lot of hype from college.

Just as an aside, people forget or are just to young to have seen it, but back in the day this is the way for ALL the top rookies. Everybody stayed 4 years and had huge name recognition, storylines behind them, and dedicared fanbases as they came into the league. Whatever team got them earned a legion of college fans as well. One of the reasons why I have always thought an age limit benefits the NBA -- free hype and publicity for the league's incoming players.

Not to mention getting players that are a lot more fundamentally sound. That is my biggest pet peeve with players coming into the league so young. Teams end up spending the first few years teaching guys how to play instead of helping them round out their game. By the time you finally find out what kind of a player you have, they are FAs and looking for greener pastures.
 
Hasn't the "Jimmer is only a shooter" delusion been put to rest yet? Seriously?

Okay... I can understand you not having known much about Jimmer a year ago... but the guy is on your team now, so you really ought to sound more informed. I know he's white. I know he's from a school that has relied a lot on outside shooting in recent years. But that doesn't mean that you can just assume that he is nothing beyond a set shooter. He's not JJ Reddick. He's Jimmer. Please, don't make a statement about a player based off of blanket assumptions.

Is shooting Jimmer's greatest strength? Of course. But on top of shooting he is a good ball handler, can take it to the hole, and is great at drawing the attention of the defense in order to set up his teammates for easy scores.

Seriously... the "just a shooter" thing may have been understandable back when all that people knew about Jimmer came from the ESPN highlights of him draining 30-foot jumpers. But there is really no longer any excuse to be as ignorant as you (and still some others) are on this subject. He was the MVP for a reason. He won the ESPY best male collegiate athlete of the year (in any sport!) for more reasons than just being "another shooter." Please educate yourself.

great post. also will add that jimmer is a GREAT shooter OFF THE DRIBBLE which is vastly important in terms of being able to create ur own shot and is a lot harder than catch and shoot. JJ Redick was not a great shooter off the dribble.
 
I think his play speaks for itself. All along people (at least I have) been saying that Tyreke is going to be unstoppable offensively (of course no one is actually unstoppable, but defenses will have a very hard time with him) if he developed an outside shot. His ability to get into the paint is unquestionable, and when healthy he's able to finish at a good rate. On defense, he is certainly at very least an average defender, and considering that he's only in his 3rd year most people would say that he is a pretty good defender. Say what you want, but not every rookie/2nd year man can steal a ball from Jason Kidd. Basically he has the natural tools for defense - long arms and strength, that will allow him to guard PGs that aren't too fast and most SGs.

That said, his biggest weakness outside of shooting appears to be in his decision making. He has not displayed the kind of court awareness that point guards generally have, but he is able to set up his team mates because of the attention that he draws from the opposition. The thing is, nobody in their right mind expects Tyreke to become Steve Nash or John Stockton. Every person saying that he's got the makings of a superstar is putting him in the mold of a more Wade like player, or a better version of Joe Johnson. None of those guys are natural passers either, but they do get the job done.

Give him time to adapt and learn. In my opinion, the real question is his work ethic. Kobe Bryant didn't become the player he is by relying on his athleticism. If Tyreke is willing to be humble, to work hard on his game, I don't think there's any question that he will be at very least an All Star some day. I am worried however, that the coaching staff may have/ continues to give him too much free rein, and as a result he may not realise that he's overdribbling etc.

That's it, in a nutshell. He came into camp at the beginning of his 3rd season out of shape. There are no excuses, no rationalizations, no apologies. It's inexcusable. If the guy comes into camp out of shape after a terrible 2nd year, when he should have plenty to prove, what does that say about his work ethic in other aspects of his game? His first game out this year he looked bad. Falling on the floor, throwing tunovers, not making a positive impact on the game. If you didn't know who he was, you would think he was a scrub the Kings just picked up off waivers. This wasn't an auspicious outing for Tyreke. Now he's behind the curve in his conditioning and the season is only about a week away.
Not good.
 
That's it, in a nutshell. He came into camp at the beginning of his 3rd season out of shape. There are no excuses, no rationalizations, no apologies. It's inexcusable. If the guy comes into camp out of shape after a terrible 2nd year, when he should have plenty to prove, what does that say about his work ethic in other aspects of his game? His first game out this year he looked bad. Falling on the floor, throwing tunovers, not making a positive impact on the game. If you didn't know who he was, you would think he was a scrub the Kings just picked up off waivers. This wasn't an auspicious outing for Tyreke. Now he's behind the curve in his conditioning and the season is only about a week away.
Not good.

I have to agree. Cousins comes in lighter, in better shape, and with an improved attitude. Tyreke comes in the same old Tyreke, just like last year. I took a lot of heat at the beginning of last season when i questioned Tyreke's work ethic and discipline. Folks made excuses for him because he's young. I sensed it was more than that though. I've never doubted his talent but I doubt his drive, professionalism, etc, and so far he's done nothing to alleviate those doubts. If Cousins can come in in better shape, so can Tyreke. Like you said, it's inexcusable.
 
The Kings looked bad. Reminded me a lot of last year during the parts of the year in which they played poorly. Hickson was horrible. Thompson was bad. Greene was Greene. Whiteside looked slow and weak. Tyreke looked like last year when he was recoving from his foot. Thornton tried to save the day by himself; it didn't work. No defense. No offense. No cohesion on offense. GS looked like they had been playing for a month, whereas as the Kings looked like they had playing for a day. This is GS after all, they are not the wunderkinds of defense. If GS had played their starting guards more, they would have beaten the Kings by 30 or more points in this game.
 
That's it, in a nutshell. He came into camp at the beginning of his 3rd season out of shape. There are no excuses, no rationalizations, no apologies. It's inexcusable. If the guy comes into camp out of shape after a terrible 2nd year, when he should have plenty to prove, what does that say about his work ethic in other aspects of his game? His first game out this year he looked bad. Falling on the floor, throwing tunovers, not making a positive impact on the game. If you didn't know who he was, you would think he was a scrub the Kings just picked up off waivers. This wasn't an auspicious outing for Tyreke. Now he's behind the curve in his conditioning and the season is only about a week away.
Not good.

That's a fairly ridiculous analysis. Made moreso of course by the lockout. There are a LOT of guys around the league not in the shape they were 3 months ago, same way it was in '99. And this allegedly out of shape Reke looked noticeably sleeker, stronger, and faster in the one game then he was the last time we saw him. Not only that, his jumper form looked noticeably better.

P.S. Just as an aside, the guy is actually still 7 months younger than either of our rookies this year.
 
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Where this crap come from? I mean it's weird the stuff just pulled out of thin air. Tyreke fell to floor making a great off balance shot while driving between three people and your conclusion is he is out of shape? I guess Dwayne wade has never been in shape.
 
That's a fairly ridiculous analysis. Made moreso of course by the lockout. There are a LOT of guys around the league not in the shape they were 3 months ago, same way it was in '99. And this allegedly out of shape Reke looked noticeably sleeker, stronger, and faster in the one game then he was the last time we saw him. Not only that, his jumper form looked noticeably better.

P.S. Just as an aside, the guy is actually still 7 months younger than either of our rookies this year.

For a guy in such great shape he certainly looked lethargic out there. And unproductive. Other have commented on it. The announcer even commented on it, saying that "next game" we should see a more serious Tyreke. Sorry, but I didn't see anything at all to come close to be impressed like you were. (Maybe you are "ridiculous"). Like I said, if I didn't know his name was Tyreke I would have thought the Kings just picked him up as a scrub.

Also, this whole schtick of "there's A LOT of guys around the league not in the shape they were 3 months ago" doesn't cut it. He's not "a lot of guys." He's THE guy or at the least one of TWO guys on this team who will determine its fate. He has more talent than 95% of the players in the NBA, but we'll never see it fully manifest unless he starts understanding it takes A LOT more than talent to be good in the NBA.
 
Reke looked to be in good shape to me, and I'm one of the posters on here who is critical of him (in a sane way though, definitely not a hater).

I think the "sluggish" comment may have been more about Reke's playstyle than his actual fitness level. Or maybe Westie was trying to be Phil Jackson and passive aggressively motivate?

Anyways, game 2 tonight...Rooting for an improved outing from Reke (who was pretty good in game 1, albiet a bit rusty).
 
For a guy in such great shape he certainly looked lethargic out there. And unproductive. Other have commented on it. The announcer even commented on it, saying that "next game" we should see a more serious Tyreke. Sorry, but I didn't see anything at all to come close to be impressed like you were. (Maybe you are "ridiculous"). Like I said, if I didn't know his name was Tyreke I would have thought the Kings just picked him up as a scrub.

Also, this whole schtick of "there's A LOT of guys around the league not in the shape they were 3 months ago" doesn't cut it. He's not "a lot of guys." He's THE guy or at the least one of TWO guys on this team who will determine its fate. He has more talent than 95% of the players in the NBA, but we'll never see it fully manifest unless he starts understanding it takes A LOT more than talent to be good in the NBA.

Wow a scrub that gets17 PTs on 50% shooting with 7 assist I will take a scrub like that anyday
 
For a guy in such great shape he certainly looked lethargic out there. And unproductive. Other have commented on it. The announcer even commented on it, saying that "next game" we should see a more serious Tyreke. Sorry, but I didn't see anything at all to come close to be impressed like you were. (Maybe you are "ridiculous"). Like I said, if I didn't know his name was Tyreke I would have thought the Kings just picked him up as a scrub.

Also, this whole schtick of "there's A LOT of guys around the league not in the shape they were 3 months ago" doesn't cut it. He's not "a lot of guys." He's THE guy or at the least one of TWO guys on this team who will determine its fate. He has more talent than 95% of the players in the NBA, but we'll never see it fully manifest unless he starts understanding it takes A LOT more than talent to be good in the NBA.

The repeated use of the term scrub for Reke off of that performance tells me everything I need to know about which one of us is getting a little out of line. You have devloped a bee in your bonnet about Reke that basically eliminates any ability you may or may not once have had to fairly evaluate him.
 
For my two cents I thought Evans looked pretty good out there. His one-handed kiss off the glass was sweet. Is he in shape? I didn't notice he was grabbing the legs of his shorts during a pause of the action. All I can say is, if I was guarding the basket and I saw Evans barreling straight at me going like a Mack truck I would have made a pirouette like a bullfighter and stood aside watching him roar on by. Ain't no way I'd let that 200 plus pounds of muscle end my NBA season.
 
Out of shape fat guy coming through!:

Out of shape fat guy coming through too:

Look at that bowl full of jelly jiggle!


Selfish out of shape fat guy drawing three people and kicking it to his shooter:

My eyes! My eyes! I hate watching scrubs!
 
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Those type of shots were what he was missing alot of last year. Just didn't have the ability to get the elevation or make the quick first step to get around his guy consistently. It is a really, really good sign that he is hitting them now.
 
I'd like to add my two cents, which won't buy you a beer anywhere by the way. I stated earlier that I was a little disappointed in Tyreke's performance. But my comment had nothing to do with his not being in shape, and I seriously doubt that Westphal was calling him a fatty. He may have been implying that he wasn't in, "beginning of the regular season NBA game shape", but I'd bet that about 85% of the players in the league fit that bill. I doubt its a major concern, and to be honest, I didn't have a problem with that. My problem, and I suspect Westphals problem was more with his style of play.

Too many times the pace of the game slowed down when the ball went to Tyreke. Too many times Tyreke had tunnel vision once he had the ball. And those things are subject to criticism. But lets be fair here! Tyreke also made some very nice plays. He made some very nice passes for assists. He played good defense, and at times, great defense. So lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think Westphal singled out Tyreke out because he expects more from him than others. If Tyreke is going to lead by example, then he has to do the right things on the court. Not just some of the time, but all the time. And in this last game he didn't. Its that simple. There's no need for a cruxification. Lets not forget that it was just an exhibition game folks.
 
I'd like to add my two cents, which won't buy you a beer anywhere by the way. I stated earlier that I was a little disappointed in Tyreke's performance. But my comment had nothing to do with his not being in shape, and I seriously doubt that Westphal was calling him a fatty. He may have been implying that he wasn't in, "beginning of the regular season NBA game shape", but I'd bet that about 85% of the players in the league fit that bill. I doubt its a major concern, and to be honest, I didn't have a problem with that. My problem, and I suspect Westphals problem was more with his style of play.

Too many times the pace of the game slowed down when the ball went to Tyreke. Too many times Tyreke had tunnel vision once he had the ball. And those things are subject to criticism. But lets be fair here! Tyreke also made some very nice plays. He made some very nice passes for assists. He played good defense, and at times, great defense. So lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think Westphal singled out Tyreke out because he expects more from him than others. If Tyreke is going to lead by example, then he has to do the right things on the court. Not just some of the time, but all the time. And in this last game he didn't. Its that simple. There's no need for a cruxification. Lets not forget that it was just an exhibition game folks.

It's probably better to have a crucifixion. Then at least he can be reborn into an improved version of Year 1 rather than have an extended purgatory of Year 2.