ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I agree, if we're going to keep Salmons for the time being, please at least try him at gaurd where he will have a much better chance to matchup physically. This is not a risk at all, to at least try him there
I agree, if we're going to keep Salmons for the time being, please at least try him at gaurd where he will have a much better chance to matchup physically. This is not a risk at all, to at least try him there
Chupacabra
Starter
Are you advocating starting Salmons over McLemore?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I'd love to see this. He has been playing out of position long enough. Mbah A Moute seems to be a nice, physical, defensive presence. Outlaw seems to have found his game. What's to be lost?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
At this point I think it may be the right move, after seeing McClemore struggle as a starter, whereas he looked much better coming off the bench before
C
Cold
Guest
Any lineup that lands Parker/Randle/Wiggins. Malone knows what he's doing. Call me sick but I still enjoy watching the game expecting a loss. I don't need instant gratification.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yes. For example, John could provide the best effort he's had in a couple seasons, but if he's matched up against Batum, Josh Smith, or even Harrison Barnes for examples,.. the odds of him posting decent stats are greatly reduced. Simply because of a physical disadvantage.
He has length at shooting gaurd, let him try to use it there. If it shows no improvement, abandon the idea with nothing lost...other than Jimmer not getting the playing time that he is never given anyways
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Yes. For example, John could provide the best effort he's had in a couple seasons, but if he's matched up against Batum, Josh Smith, or even Harrison Barnes for examples,.. the odds of him posting decent stats are greatly reduced. Simply because of a physical disadvantage.
He has length at shooting gaurd, let him try to use it there. If it shows no improvement, abandon the idea with nothing lost...other than Jimmer not getting the playing time that he is never given anyways
I might even add that playing SG might rejuvenate some interest in playing NBA basketball in Salmons. I think calling a guy names who is playing out of position and probably doing as well at that as he can is nasty. I have no love for Salmons but let's step back and look at what he has been asked to do.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He's been constantly saddled with trying to defend one of the other teams best players, who is longer, heavier, and stronger than him. He's actually been a good defender against guys his size or smaller in the past. I'd like to at least find out if that still may be the case. Easy enough to find out, play him at gaurd.
And for all those looking for a trade, any trade possibility. If Salmons does find some success playing gaurd and at least defending well there, some teams could very well gain interest
Yes, I am. With mucho gusto.
jalfa
Starter
no. just...no. every team in the league knows precisely who or what John Salmons is and it's a guy that should not be playing NBA basketball anymore. advocating for him to be getting playing time over Ben is madness, advocating for him to start over Ben is sailing beyond the seas of madness and coming out on the other side. there is very little with this team that I'm looking forward to more than not seeing Salmons don a Kings jersey anymore.
I am not a fan of Salmons and I'm a big fan already of Ben's. Having said that, I want to see Ben get extended minutes but am concerned that he's being brought along too quickly. He just doesn't look like he's ready to start.
Padrino
All-Star
indeed he doesn't. i've been a proponent of throwing mclemore into the fire early and often, but my goodness, he has looked terribly lost as a starter. i'd give him a few more games to try and get more comfortable in that role, and see if he can develop any chemistry at all with vasquez and cousins, but his weaknesses as a first-year player have been exposed more obviously than even i would have anticipated. his dribble seems to deteriorate in real-time, he doesn't have a good feel for when to move the ball (or who to move it to), and whatever advantage his athleticism might give him on defense is eliminated by a sheer lack of IQ/discipline on that side of the floor. it's obviously far too early to tag him a bust of any kind, but man, it's disappointing to see just how raw he really is. his off-the-ball movement remains a positive, and eventually he'll start making shots, but it's going to take him awhile to adjust to the pace of the professional game. that said, i have no idea what coach malone will do with the starting SG spot. SF is supposed to be the team's great black hole, but SG is reading similarly these days. there are no good options...
jalfa
Starter
well, play anybody else then. Vasquez and IT together, play Jimmer, go back to Thornton, call up somebody from the D-League, but Salmons? there are finally better options at the SF position, so there's no reason for him to play at all and now people want to move him into the overcrowded SG rotation to steal minutes from guys that are either actually in the team's future or might be able to to somewhat salvage their trade value? Salmons value, his only value is that of an expiring contract and he does not need to be played to maintain it.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
We are on the same page here even down to the surprise that McLemore hasn't looked good as a starter. I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure is too much. He needs to be relaxed and then I suspect the shots will drop. The rest of his game will take awhile and I am not counting on him being a good iso player. I certainly expect his defense to improve quite a bit.
Chupacabra
Starter
This represents my sentiments exactly. There is no good reason to put Salmons out there.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Trent Lockett >>> Salmons
Jalna, respect your opinion but totally disagree on Salmons, his usefulness, his reputation around the league, and the choices the Kings have other than Salmons. It is easy to have the views you express because they are not only held by most on here they are spelled out on here endless times a day. I just do not agree with the wholesale dissing he gets on here.
I don't know how much time people have to follow other teams around the league, but I remember watching a lot of guys struggle mightily in their rookie seasons before turning it around and becoming the player they were originally predicted to be. James Harden and Evan Turner immediately come to mind but it's a long list. Rondo, for instance, couldn't even beat out Sebastian Telfair for the starting spot on a terrible team until the second half of the season. The talent is real, we just have to be patient with McLemore.
DesertFox
Starter
John Salmons would be a lot better at guard vs SF, although it's rearranging chairs on the titanic.
He's playing the role of spot up shooter/ floor spacer, but hasn't been hitting his open 3's.
Every once in a while he can create his own shot, but you certainly don't want him doing that unless the shot clock is running out. I don't see any gains on offense playing him at the 2.
The biggest plus to starting him at the 2 is getting Luc minutes at the 3. This essentially kills MT's PT and trade value (or what was left of it), but that's not looking like a big loss right now.
He's playing the role of spot up shooter/ floor spacer, but hasn't been hitting his open 3's.
Every once in a while he can create his own shot, but you certainly don't want him doing that unless the shot clock is running out. I don't see any gains on offense playing him at the 2.
The biggest plus to starting him at the 2 is getting Luc minutes at the 3. This essentially kills MT's PT and trade value (or what was left of it), but that's not looking like a big loss right now.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
NO. Just no. No one wants him to steal minutes. What we don't want is to force Ben into a role he is NOT YET ready to assume. Salmons may not be able to hit water from a boat at times but he can pass and if you watch him closely he actually doesn't play bad defense.
I LIKE BEN. But, like a lot of folks around here, I do not want to destroy his confidence by not allowing him to get used to the NBA without the added pressure of being a starter on a bad team.
jalfa
Starter
I don't quite know what you're getting at, concentrating on Ben, when the post you quoted actually laid out the options Malone has outside of starting Ben, so there's that. however, I'll still bite: it'd be a lot more damaging for his confidence to be promoted to the starting spot, play with effort and then suddenly have the rug pulled from under him four games in. it'd be even more damaging, when the guy that replaces him is an over-the-hill expiring contract that's clearly not in the future plans of this team. it's the coaches and his teamates job to help him keep his confidence up, even as he's struggling and, judging by last night's game, he seems to be dealing with this adversity just fine. I'd rather watch him actually try and, at times, fail than have Salmons out there destroying the spacing, monopolising possessions that should go to more capable players and get eaten alive on the boards (an area where Ben has been pretty helpful).
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You absolutely do not move Ben put of the starting lineup. If you're talking about destroying confidence, I can't think of a worse way to do so than being rewarded for hard-work and hustle and then getting pulled after 5 games because of a semi-lack of production. I was all for bringing him along slowly before the season started. Then Thornton started sucking and basically made that a non-option.
All we need to do is be smart with him. If he's having a good game like last night, great. Leave him in. If not, pull him out early and let him digest what's going on in the game. I'd rather he see his 25 MPG this season developing some chemistry with Cuz than developing chemistry off the bench with Ppat and Chuck Hayes.
All we need to do is be smart with him. If he's having a good game like last night, great. Leave him in. If not, pull him out early and let him digest what's going on in the game. I'd rather he see his 25 MPG this season developing some chemistry with Cuz than developing chemistry off the bench with Ppat and Chuck Hayes.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The larger issue with Ben is just how his presence is effecting the entire process Malone is trying to put the team through. We are struggling to find Malone's groove, and having a rookie who doesn't really know how to play yet and who makes random errors has only been an added stressor. I'm sure Malone would much rather have a solid vet who he knew would do the right things out there, establish consistency and the mode of play he wants amongst the starters, and hope the steadiness and confidence from that would bleed down to the rest of the roster.
Obviously I don't disagree about said steady vet not making his presence on the roster known. I'm just pointing out that Ben being there is not all hunky dorry. Generally I am in favor of getting rooks as many minutes as they can handle. But Ben has barely been handling them (indeed until last night he really hadn't been), and we're trying to do other things that are already taxing our mental resources as is. We aren't a veteran team with an established system where we can just sort of chuckle off a rookie's struggles and just go back to doing what we do. Right now every game its a struggle for everybody to find their way. if a rookie blows his defensive assignment, then quick shots an airballed three, we don't have the confidence to shrug it off yet.
A few key differences I think. Most of Ben's shots are ones we want him taking. He's forced a few, but generally all of his looks are spot-up 3s, in transition, or 1 dribble pull-up shots within the flow of the offense. And he's been better than the alternatives, even with some of his early struggles.
Defensively, it's going to take some time. But the effort is there. He actively looks to rebound, something that is much needed on our team. And watching his defense, it's more of a lack of experience against NBA scorers than a lack of actual defensive talent or want to be a defensive player in my eyes. He's having difficulty adjusting to how quick and smart offensive scorers are in the NBA. Several times, he gave Green too much space because he didn't want to get beat off the dribble. And Green was able to just torch him from 3 most of the game. Goodwin was the opposite and he wasn't able to react fast enough when Goodwin drove to the rim on him.
C
Cold
Guest
Not worried about McLemore one bit. He will be one of the elite shooters in the NBA within a couple seasons. Shot selection and efficiency will get better once the game slows down for him.
Chubbs
Starter
It's unfortunate this team is so bad they felt they had to rush to start him.
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