Ya I think there’s more pressure on Dave, I think vevik and others will see Vlade put some nice players around. But a 25win season would have to cost someone there job
Pre-season Kings/Warriors game thread
- Thread starter Livinthedream
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Ya I think there’s more pressure on Dave, I think vevik and others will see Vlade put some nice players around. But a 25win season would have to cost someone there job
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
so then I ask, how many wins do you expect a team in a rebuilding phase to win this season?
I’d like us to be at least 30 wins but more important than that to me will be style of play. Which I don’t think Joerger will change.
Ozymandias
All-Star
of course the style of play will change... and the stark change will be reflected in the advanced stat PACE. they were rock-bottom last in the league in 2017-2018 due to the Zach Randolph led offense.
do you see the ferocity that the bigs are running the floor with? One thing that has been consistent in these preseason games is our bigs are catching teams sleeping running past them while they transition to defense.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Jorger and Vlade are just placeholders guys, their the fall guys, paid scapegoats! Vlade has long predicted his termination at the end of this season with his comments around the DMC trade.
The more I watch this offense the more i'm convinced that it's really ALL about player development... They want these bigs to act as triple-threat players, probably not the most competitive thing for this upcoming season BUT -- it could pay huge dividends down the line...
The Kings cannot afford to let Willie walk.. I know many ppl here are gonna see that line and immediately disagree/discredit everything else i've posted, but it's true, if you want to really look at the logistics of things on a 1year,2year, 3 year 5 year basis losing willie without a return only distorts the teams timeline negatively.
In all seriousness, if the Kings were really trying to win this season, I think the best bet would be put the ball in Fox's hands and have him drive nonstop.... but this is super risky for obvious reasons. I really do believe that the most feasible way the Kings could win lets say 35 is with Fox as the leading scorer, putting up something like 20-6-6.
The 3-big lineup in particular, don't get too tense over that, it needs reps, you don't start an experiment like that and then kaibosh it 3 games into the preseason -- thats not how things work, that could be filed under "instant gratification seeking". Guards and wings plug into NBA systems quicker than bigs, and a large portion of that is due to a raw strength disadvantage. Skal is just getting his feet wet vs real competition with 20 extra lbs, he's also just getting his feet wet being asked to space the floor in that manner.. Marvin and Harry both look like they will be MUCH stronger at 25 than they are now. Willie will continue to strengthen up too.
It's beyond cliche at this point, but, it's a process!
The more I watch this offense the more i'm convinced that it's really ALL about player development... They want these bigs to act as triple-threat players, probably not the most competitive thing for this upcoming season BUT -- it could pay huge dividends down the line...
The Kings cannot afford to let Willie walk.. I know many ppl here are gonna see that line and immediately disagree/discredit everything else i've posted, but it's true, if you want to really look at the logistics of things on a 1year,2year, 3 year 5 year basis losing willie without a return only distorts the teams timeline negatively.
In all seriousness, if the Kings were really trying to win this season, I think the best bet would be put the ball in Fox's hands and have him drive nonstop.... but this is super risky for obvious reasons. I really do believe that the most feasible way the Kings could win lets say 35 is with Fox as the leading scorer, putting up something like 20-6-6.
The 3-big lineup in particular, don't get too tense over that, it needs reps, you don't start an experiment like that and then kaibosh it 3 games into the preseason -- thats not how things work, that could be filed under "instant gratification seeking". Guards and wings plug into NBA systems quicker than bigs, and a large portion of that is due to a raw strength disadvantage. Skal is just getting his feet wet vs real competition with 20 extra lbs, he's also just getting his feet wet being asked to space the floor in that manner.. Marvin and Harry both look like they will be MUCH stronger at 25 than they are now. Willie will continue to strengthen up too.
It's beyond cliche at this point, but, it's a process!
Hard to say many postive things about last night in Seattle. I enjoyed seeing all the old Sonics players.
Van Gundy towards the end of the game talked about the importance of two things. He said "players need to be willing to work on the defensive end, and pass the ball willingly on offense, not as a last resort." He was directing these comments fairly at the Kings. He bit his tongue several times in reference to poor play by the Kings on defense.
The Warriors B team helped show us how far we have to go.
Van Gundy towards the end of the game talked about the importance of two things. He said "players need to be willing to work on the defensive end, and pass the ball willingly on offense, not as a last resort." He was directing these comments fairly at the Kings. He bit his tongue several times in reference to poor play by the Kings on defense.
The Warriors B team helped show us how far we have to go.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Van Gundy was harsh, but he wasn't lying. There were several times I saw open players that didn't get the ball. You could see the ball handler think about it and then give it to someone else. When that happens, players stop working to get open. You have to trust your teammates.
TaxMan
Starter
This is definitely something they need to work on, however I think naturally gets better with their normal rotation - including Bogi. Losing him really really really hurts us with this, particularly given our glut of young inexperienced bigs that are getting big preseason minutes. I keep telling myself to be patient.
Iced Espresso
Starter
The best thing about this game is that it ended.
I was just thinking this was a back to back and were playing all young players... Hopefully this is more of an outlier. I liked how Bagley played much better against Bell than he did in the summer league.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It shouldn't take wins or losses. More of the individual statistical failure of last year and that should be it. The stats put a stamp on what happened last year and verified that what things looked like on the court wasn't some mass psychosis, it was reality. You can lose and still build value in the picks you've invested everything you have in. It's called rebuilding.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If you screen the Kings, you will get a great look. They switched a lot in the first two games yet decided to try and fight through screens in this one. Hard to explain.
jcassio
Starter
Yeah, this is (or should be) an embarrassment to the coaching staff. Klay is a great player, but there’s got to be quality scouting reports on how best to play him so he doesn’t go off for 20 in a quarter.
well I like MBIII more and more.. he is still super raw, but if his work ethic is like they say it is he will be up there, close to his potential.. yes he was number 2 pick and people expect from number 2 pick to be game changers in first season, but I expect from him just to give energy and help Kings be better at rebounding. although many people are laughing that he can play SF I think he has tools that in a couple of years he is able to do that.. I mean what would you say if somebody told you that a some Greek who has problem with high drible will play a point guard, and not just play, but actually be best player in his team.. so does MBIII has tools to be SF in future? yes. will he be? I think this depends only on him. but while at that I do not expect him to play SF this season.
now to go back to Doncic (Golden apple for Kings fans).. I was sure he will be King`s pick, and was really surprised to see that being MBIII.. but from this distance it makes sense.. I had my doubts, mainly because of athleticism, how will Luka look on SF.. and Rick Carlisle, as good coach as he is, will push him to PF, where his latheral quicknes and athleticism will not be that big of a problem and it will also be easier for him to attack opponents PF, especially in transition.. I guess he will be point guard from PF position, which is great from Dallas as their true PG is more scorer than pass first..
now with Doncic, there would be two problems.. first how would he handle SF position and second more important, Luka needs a ball in his hand and that would mean you have to take ball from Fox and Bogi hands, which would make them less usefull.. now with Fox and Bogi, and even Buddy being able to create something, Kings needed more athletic player.. especially as I beleive that Kings want to do something inovative in future and on small ball answer with ultra big ball..
did Kings made a mistake? I think no.. will Luka be good? yes, as he came to a good coach, who knows how to hide his flaws and emphasize his strenghts in a team that is perfectly suited for him.. will MBIII be good? I belive he will be, but not this season..
he just needs to give his best in practice and games and grow whith each day.. and not to get burden on his chest from expectation of being number 2 pick..
now to go back to Doncic (Golden apple for Kings fans).. I was sure he will be King`s pick, and was really surprised to see that being MBIII.. but from this distance it makes sense.. I had my doubts, mainly because of athleticism, how will Luka look on SF.. and Rick Carlisle, as good coach as he is, will push him to PF, where his latheral quicknes and athleticism will not be that big of a problem and it will also be easier for him to attack opponents PF, especially in transition.. I guess he will be point guard from PF position, which is great from Dallas as their true PG is more scorer than pass first..
now with Doncic, there would be two problems.. first how would he handle SF position and second more important, Luka needs a ball in his hand and that would mean you have to take ball from Fox and Bogi hands, which would make them less usefull.. now with Fox and Bogi, and even Buddy being able to create something, Kings needed more athletic player.. especially as I beleive that Kings want to do something inovative in future and on small ball answer with ultra big ball..
did Kings made a mistake? I think no.. will Luka be good? yes, as he came to a good coach, who knows how to hide his flaws and emphasize his strenghts in a team that is perfectly suited for him.. will MBIII be good? I belive he will be, but not this season..
he just needs to give his best in practice and games and grow whith each day.. and not to get burden on his chest from expectation of being number 2 pick..
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm curious, do you think that Joerger, Vlade, and Vivek live in separate universes. Do you think Vlade is going into the season thinking were going to develop the young guys and maybe win 25 to 29 games, and that Vivek is going into the season thinking the team is going to make the playoffs? Isn't is possible, and logical, that both Vlade and Vivek are on the same page, or else Vlade and Joerger wouldn't be saying the things they said?
I know you hate Joerger and just want him fired, and probably Vlade as well, which in my opinion, after years of turmoil, is the last thing this franchise needs right now. Logic tells me that Vlade wouldn't have taken the route he took, ( a total rebuild ) if he didn't have Vivek on board for the long haul. Right now, Joerger isn't coaching like a coach that's doing everything possible to win, he's coaching like a coach that's trying to develop young players. That tells me he thinks his job is secure, as long as those young players start showing signs of becoming solid, to maybe special NBA players.
I listened to Willie's interview after the game, and found it interesting that he thought maybe a good old fashion butt kicking was good for the team. He called it a wake up call. He could be right. You can't go out against any team in the NBA, give a half a$$ effort and expect a good ending. Hopefully Buddy realizes that you can't go under screens while guarding Thompson, and Bagley realizes that you can't give Thompson 5 to 10 feet of space and get back to contest the shot. There were a lot of lessons to be learned from last nights game.
Once again, my boy Gabriel made the most of his minutes. He's a very good out of area rebounder. He did the same thing at Kentucky, but unfortunately he was always playing behind some five star recruit that took most of his minutes. I'd like to see him get a start at SF in one of the preseason games. The dude can at minimum defend, and board, and was a fairly consistent 3 pt shooter at Kentucky.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
but the original post to whom I was responding to stated that a 25 win season should be a result of someone being fired and then I ask how many wins would it take to change that notion? Any poster with a sense of basketball and how rebuilds work understand it's not about wins and losses, it's about player development and who do you move forward with and who do you discard at the right time before the value diminishes further.
Hopefully last night was Joerger having the team work on fighting through screens rather than switching and that wasn't just a team wide brain fart of an effort on everyone. If it's the former, I don't have a problem with it. If it's a latter, these guys might be in for some major ass whoopings this year. Either way, Van Gundy was completely right to call out Hield there. How many times can you get burned the exact same way in half a quarter? It's not like Hield has never guarded Klay before. That was weird.
I don't know why every team doesn't take a page out of the Warriors playbook. They used their bigs to screen multiple times per possession to get their shooters open looks. Many times, both bigs were out at the elbows setting screen after screen on the same possession until it got someone an open look. Sometimes it took 3-4 screens before they got a shot off but when they did, they were quality shots. Watch the Kings and if they do set a screen, it's not a very good one most the time and if that initial screen doesn't work, they just go 1 on 1 or settle for a mid range shot that every team in the league is going to give them since it's the worst shot in basketball.
I don't know why every team doesn't take a page out of the Warriors playbook. They used their bigs to screen multiple times per possession to get their shooters open looks. Many times, both bigs were out at the elbows setting screen after screen on the same possession until it got someone an open look. Sometimes it took 3-4 screens before they got a shot off but when they did, they were quality shots. Watch the Kings and if they do set a screen, it's not a very good one most the time and if that initial screen doesn't work, they just go 1 on 1 or settle for a mid range shot that every team in the league is going to give them since it's the worst shot in basketball.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I don't think the coaches need to give the players a scouting report on Klay Thompson, It's not very complicated on who he is and what his strengths are. When the opposition is allowed to move while screening, the hands are practically tied at that point for a defender. Now, if you aren't even making an attempt and going under the screen, then the lack of awareness is on the player and not the coach in my opinion.
Frank Mason is a strange case. Shooting 80% with 5apg and .7 turnovers in 20mpg. Hugely efficient numbers but it seems as if the offense just doesn't flow at all with him out there. Joerger is constantly calling timeouts because the guys aren't running the right play or are way out of position at the beginning of the possession. I don't know if it's Frank or the guys he's playing with or what but it's happened multiple times in the 3 games so far. Yet at the end of the game he always has one of the best looking stat lines.
Agent23
Starter
He’d be fine if he wasn’t the primary ball handler and/or running the offense. Having Bogi or Fox would be ok. He is feisty enough on defense that he can hold his own against bigger guards.
kingsfan1984
Starter
Solid post
parker
Bench
Yes, and none of those vets were playing on the second night of an away back to back in which the Kings arrived late night/early morning. They were out of it from the beginning and those circumstances made it worse.
You are using incorrect measurements. These measurements are for Justin Jackson out of Maryland. Our JJ is 6'7 w/o shoes.
Well, preseason is one thing, so I'm more inclined to agree if regular season. Kings were roadkill today. Cauley Stein especially looked awful on defense.in the highlights
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Has it been a bad camp so far through 3 games? Skal/Justin not looking like players? Buddy not making that leap to quality starter as I predicted as of yet? Bagley still showing raw inconsistency and concerns? WCS looking like his time is up ?
Fox has looked like the franchise player, Yogi balling, Gabriel looking good to bring things up.
Hopefully these past few games we get some more production going
Fox has looked like the franchise player, Yogi balling, Gabriel looking good to bring things up.
Hopefully these past few games we get some more production going
sactowndog
All-Star
Yep I didn’t see it before but he regressed back to it the last game.
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