Pistons' project center 'just needs to play'

AleksandarN

Starter
I wonder if Larry is indeed back I wonder if Darko will ask for a trade. Darko is a true PF not a center like Larry wants him to be. I am sure we could trade Bobby and Francisco for him.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2104064

LAS VEGAS -- It wasn't quite Darko Unleashed.
It wasn't even Atlanta-in-April Darko.

It was 28 tedious minutes of offensive struggle against a couple no-hopers named Harold Jamison and Brandon Kurtz, and it left little doubt why the Detroit Pistons have been so desperate to get Darko Milicic onto their summer-league roster.



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[size=-2]Milicic[/size]

"The poor kid ... he just needs to play," said Pistons assistant coach Dave Hanners.

It finally happened Friday, at the third attempt. A protracted contract wrangle made Milicic unavailable to the Pistons in the months before his rookie season. A stint on the 2004 summer squad was aborted when a Brian Cook swipe left Milicic with a broken hand in the final ticks of a Finals-clinching victory over the Lakers. Only now, after two seasons of Darko's virtual inactivity, are the perennial title contenders getting a chance to focus their off-season program on the development of their 7-foot gamble.

In the shadow of the Sin City strip, Milicic started at center in the Pistons' Vegas Summer League opener and submitted an unremarkable debut. Stat sheets in these settings are notoriously unreliable, but there was no disputing that Darko didn't come close to the 16 points he hung on the Hawks as a surprise starter in Game 81. In Detroit's 70-64 loss to a motley collection of Phoenix Suns summer-leaguers, Milicic managed just seven points and five boards.

The biggest hoop name playing this town was unable to wow the Cox Pavilion audience as a youngster of his stature normally might. Darko scored just two buckets, both coming in the second half and one fewer the number of MILICIC 31 jerseys spotted in the crowd. The first was a nifty little driving banker with his right hand after a rare burst of aggressiveness. The other was an uncontested follow.

We'd love to describe more for you, but there really wasn't more to describe. The kid often seen moping in public, his confidence unquestionably beaten down by a role of insignificance on an NBA powerhouse, still looks a long way from lively.

"I didn't play for two years," Milicic said. "It's not easy right now, first time, but it's going to get better."

The Pistons believe it, too. They still swear by the kid and, as president Joe Dumars reminds, Milicic was drafted for another season or two down the road, no matter what anybody thinks.

The first step, though, is playing harder, and Milicic has plenty of room there. The Pistons weren't expecting any sort of statistical eruption Friday, but they were certainly hoping for more. More activity chasing rebounds. More determination to fight for post position.

The Pistons, in short, want to start seeing him play with a hunger in the vicinity of Detroit's newest No. 1 pick. Jason Maxiell, taken No. 26 overall late last month, inflicted a small head wound on the Suns' Mindaugas Katelynas with his aggression in the first quarter and bulled his way to the rim for 16 points.

"He's going to make some mistakes," Hanners said of Milicic. "He's not going to look great all the time. He needs to get in better shape."

But ...

"Part of his confidence problem is that he hasn't ever had any reps doing things," continued Hanners, who's coaching the Pistons here while Larry Brown's future with the club remains unresolved.

"The only way you get that good feeling about yourself is you get in games and you make plays. Good plays or bad plays. He hasn't had the opportunity to do that. He just needs to get in games and play."

He'll have that golden opportunity in Vegas. The Pistons have four more games at Cox before Milicic proceeds to a Serbian national team camp that could result in a roster spot for the prestigious European Championships. If he doesn't make the senior national team, this week becomes even more important.

Not that Dumars is getting caught up in any urgency talk. He knows that drafting Darko ahead of Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade is still met with widespread disbelief. He also refuses to budge from the belief that it's a wonderful luxury to have a long-limbed prospect like Milicic on the roster while your team is winning one championship and going to Game 7 of the following Finals.

"We've done what we said we'd do -- make the NBA Finals and develop him at the same time," Dumars said. "We have developed him and we have not compromised what we needed to do as a team. And we expect him to keep getting better and better."

Said Hanners: "With the guys we have on our team, where's [Milicic] gonna play? There's not anybody that's been [drafted recently] that would play ahead of [Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess]."

It's likewise true that Milicic only just turned 20. He's still, as Hanners described, one of the most skilled young big men you could ever wish see, and to say Milicic has done nothing in America is to ignore how noticeably his 7-foot, 245-pound frame is filling out.

"He can pass, shoot and dribble better than any kid his size [and] his age," Hanners said.

Darko has another week in Vegas to give us a few glimpses of those talents. Another week or so before returning to Europe, followed by the long wait until October for a far bigger spectacle than summer league.

October is when we find out how Darko will react if Brown is still with the Pistons when training camp starts.

Or would a new coach mean a new Darko, too?

"He's the greatest coach in the NBA," Milicic insisted. "He's helped me a lot the last two years. I've got nothing [against] him.



"If he leaves, you never know who's gonna come after him. Whoever's going to be [the] coach for me, [it] doesn't matter."

Whether or not you're buying that diplomatic answer, it meant that Milicic could go into Saturday's test against the makeshift Denver Nuggets having flashed at least one veteran move. Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here. Also, click here to send a question for possible use on ESPNEWS
 
Yeah, I am kind of rooting for Larry to be back for that very reason. Not sure I would want to give up Cisco unless we had to though -- Bobby is logical, makes sense for both parties, but I'd like to start stockpiling young talent now if we can.

Not sure how they felt about Arroyo after he arrived, but we'd need a backup point if we traded Bobby, and they are still looking for reserve little guys. Bobby/Corliss (returning) for Darko/Arroyo might be a steal for us in the long run, but might prime them for a championship in the short run. Actually, looking at the salaries, they might have to throw in Delfino as well. Works for me! :) Not for them probably. Or if we pulled the Nene trade, Bobby/KT for Darko/Arroyo/Delfino. Raping them of their future, but loading them up for another championship run in the present (KT would have to play a lot of SF, but in that thuggish system, think that would work, and give them McDyess insurance as well). Meanwhile a Nene/Darko PF combo would be very interesting to watch develop for us and could yield a star in time.

But any/all of that would depend on Brown returning. I'm sorry, I get tired of the Brown = class act stuff. In some ways yes, but in others he's just an *** and has caused trouble with players wherever he has gone. Very divisive. Plays favorites. Has his guys and the rest of you. If he comes back, Darko and Delfino are not happy, and right back in the doghouse. So who knows, might be possible to steal them in return for Brown type players in a win-now strategy. Or at least that would be my hope/pipedream
 
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It's likewise true that Milicic only just turned 20. He's still, as Hanners described, one of the most skilled young big men you could ever wish see, and to say Milicic has done nothing in America is to ignore how noticeably his 7-foot, 245-pound frame is filling out.

"He can pass, shoot and dribble better than any kid his size [and] his age," Hanners said..

Those skills would fit in perfect with style of offense we run. On defense he has quickest lateral speed this side of a 7 footer since Kevin Garnett
 
AleksandarN said:
Those skills would fit in perfect with style of offense we run. On defense he has quickest lateral speed this side of a 7 footer since Kevin Garnett

In theory -- this is the only problem with getting him if he's out there. I'm all for it, but unless you're just in the lottery and willing to wait and see, we have almost no NBA level game evidence to go on with him. Basically you are trading for the #2 pick in the draft a few years back, and after that, he might as well have been playing in Europe (or maybe Antartica givent hat nobody but the Pistons' coaches have seen him play in two years). Looked terrible preseason this past year, had one good game at the end fo the season this year where he showed flashes. I'm all for rolling the dice right now trying to get back to the top, but I have no idea whether any of those rolls would pan out, in particular with this kid.
 
Bricklayer said:
In theory -- this is the only problem with getting him if he's out there. I'm all for it, but unless you're just in the lottery and willing to wait and see, we have almost no NBA level game evidence to go on with him. Basically you are trading for the #2 pick in the draft a few years back, and after that, he might as well have been playing in Europe (or maybe Antartica givent hat nobody but the Pistons' coaches have seen him play in two years). Looked terrible preseason this past year, had one good game at the end fo the season this year where he showed flashes. I'm all for rolling the dice right now trying to get back to the top, but I have no idea whether any of those rolls would pan out, in particular with this kid.

And when you look back on it Petrie has been known to take risks that pan out. Actually looking back that is how we became contenders by taking risks in getting players like Jason, Chris and Pedja which we either unkowns(like Pedja) or questionable characters at the time(Like Chris and JW).
 
He's still got 4 or 5 more games to do it, but he should be killing these guys out here. High school kids come in and destroy these summer leagues, Darko should too.
 
We need to get him let Petrie do his magic



http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?mod=print&a=1037

Darko Milicic] Started the game a little slowly, backed down Schenscher and then tried to get cute with a hook shot instead of throwing it down. He was stuffed by Marcus Haislip. After that he had a wide open look from 18 feet out and he hesitated and then turned it over on the ensuing pass. Other then that he showed a lot of potential in a lot of areas, but mentally he just can’t put it together. His feet are very quick on defense, his hands are great in the post, he has a beautiful hook shot, can stroke the 18 footer, has nice footwork and great body control to get his man off balance and get his shot off in the paint. The biggest problem here is that he just won’t take the ball strong up at the hoop and finish with authority, preferring to get cute and fade away everytime instead. Darko put a lot more effort in today, though, hitting the deck twice for a loose ball and calling for the ball. You can tell with the passes he makes and the way he moves off the ball that he really knows how to play and has some serious talent, he just needs someone to believe in him and bring it out out of him now.
 
i would love to see darko in a sacto uni. adelman has a penchant (regardless of personal opinion on the man's coaching style) for maximizing a players' talents offensively. at 7 feet tall, and with a little detroit coaching under his belt, darko should be primed to be a good defender. if adelman and the rest of the kings coaching staff were able to slowly bring him up to speed, offensively, the kings might be able to pull off what detroit (a largely defensive-based squad) could not. its just a thought, and i agree with brick, it is just about time for petrie to start rolling the dice and taking a few chances on some younger talent.
 
darko might have been in the dog house because brown picks favorites? maybe, darko is aware of brown's system and since he is so used to brown's teachings he is fully capable of getting out there, playing defense and help improve other teams. however his showing in the piston practice facility must of not been good ones. detroits front line is not only big, but strong and smart. weighing 245 pounds doensn't make you strong and a good rebounder; which are the characteristics of browns front court. i don't think it's about playing "favorites". how do you explain Mcdeyes comming in out of nowhere and getting 20-25 minutes a game? c'mon; this is supposed to be your 1st round 2nd overall pick. darko should be getting more minutes than tayshaun prince. brown could possibly see something in darko that he doesn't like or that makes him suspect. i am anxious to hear what brown decides as well. if darko is so unhappy in detroit why doesn't he ask for a trade. explore some options. or at least act like he's interested in other teams. i'd like to see him in a king's uni as well, but not at a price equal to one of our big 3.
 
tyrant said:
i'd like to see him in a king's uni as well, but not at a price equal to one of our big 3.

oh i agree with you there. darko aint worth that much...not by a long shot. he's an unkown quantity, and an interesting talent. he's also got time on his side, so if the kings could pry him away from detroit, then we may be able to utilize whatever talent that he has that is, at the moment, unrealized. and i really hope it simply is unrealized talent. there has to be something there. i cant believe the pistons would have drafted him solely on the premise of his size. he has to have some skills. he just needs to build up some confidence and get a little fire in his belly.
 
I was at Darko's game today, and here's my take:

If you want to know why Larry won't play him, look no further than his godawful defense. If this were a real game, he would have fouled out 1 minute into the 3rd quarter, when he collected his 6th foul. He has decent footspeed, but he reaches, takes bad angles, and loses the ball. His D is much like Dirk's or Peja's or Walker's, only much, much worse. And if you cannot play proper defense for Larry you are not setting foot on the court.

Offensively, he has a great shot. In fact, he should switch to SF, because his post game is bad. He looks uncomfortable in there and rushes everything. Darko has talent, but it lies in being a bigger version of Peja, not the next coming of KG (ridiculous comparison) or even Vlade. Darko is deadly in a pick and pop, which is where he got most of his shots. There were a TON of GMs there, I presume to evaluate Darko, and those were just the recognizable ones. I wouldn't know someone like RC Buford. Which makes me think Dumars is listening to offers. That said, I would not give anything of value for him. Petrie and Rick watched him until the late 3rd, when they bugged out with George Karl. (Real quick, the Maloofs and Rick did not speak all day).

As for Darko's on-court demeanor, I didn't like it, and that is what I primarily look for in games like this when evaluating talent. A guy might have an off day, but if he works on hard on D, dives for some loose balls, and generally looks likes he cares about winning I'm impressed. None of the above describes Darko. What did impress me was his physique. The guy is chiseled. He also has a phenomenal tan. . .which worries me. A white player with a great tan means he either does not spend enough time in the gym, or is too worried about how he looks. Neither are traits I want from a basketball player, particularly a post guy. At this point, I don't know if Darko truly cares about the game or is more interested in becoming the first 7' male model. I mean, even if he hasn't seen floor time, he should be better than this right now. A guy who practices daily against McDyess and the Wallaces should KILL Schencher in the post. Darko didn't. And playing time won't come easier next year, because the Pistons first this year, Maxiell, is a beast who will fit right in with what Larry likes to do.

Edit: After reflecting a little bit more about the game and my comments, I would give some value to get Darko, but I would definitely move him to SF. He is in the wrong position. His size, shot, and court vision would be great at SF. He had a couple plays where he made some nice passes, and like I said, his shot is excellent. He's just too soft for full time post duty. He's not Peja or Dirk soft in that he will be able to take smaller guys to the block, but he cannot do it consistantly against guys close to him in size or athleticism. He does not shy away from contact like those two, but he doesn't thrive with it either. Mind you, his defense will not look any better at SF, but he's a better athlete than plenty of successful SF, and much bigger and stronger. Like I said, the kid is built.

What would I dangle to Dumars, and why would he do it? First, I would put out Miller/Thomas and Bobby for Darko, Maxiell/Delfino, and a 1st. Dumars would do it because no matter what happens with Darko, he will not be a contributing member to this Detroit squad and their attempted title runs. They have a window of about another 3 years, after which they have to rebuild. Might as well stock up now on guys who can help keep the Indianas and Miamis of the world at bay. Furthermore, Darko is just not a Detroit guy. Detroit fans never bought into Grant Hill, as good as he was, because he was just too soft for them. They like their teams and players to be of the Bad Boy variety. If I'm Petrie this move is a concerted attack at getting younger and gathering talent. I would also move Peja, S&T Cat, and other such shenanigans. Only Bibby offers would need to really WOW me in order to pull the trigger, because with all those kids a steady PG would be necessary for everybody's development. And, by the time the Kings were a serious contender again, Bibby would be the wily vet torching teams from out of nowhere.
 
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Venom said:
Petrie and Rick watched him until the late 3rd, when they bugged out with George Karl.

didnt know these guys were so chummy. I guess that this adds more positives to a possibly s + t with mobley.
 
as far as darko is concerned, hes young so him being concerned with his appearance shouldn't be such a shocker. Miller and bobby for Delfino and Milicic, would that work? either way what would be the plan for replacing Miller?
 
BigSong said:
as far as darko is concerned, hes young so him being concerned with his appearance shouldn't be such a shocker. Miller and bobby for Delfino and Milicic, would that work? either way what would be the plan for replacing Miller?


Nene, or whatever we get in moving Peja. It would not be a solo move. However, I would not be so much concerned with "replacing" Miller as getting younger. The deal as I wrote it would probably not work. Imagine we would have to take back a bad contract from them.
 
I like the idea of getting Darko, but not at the price of one of our three best players. Anybody else would be game. Bobby is a completely logical fit for Detroit, and any non-core other player or players in a larger combo deal (maybe netting the also out of favor Delfino, even though we do not need another young OG, or Arroyo to replace Bobby) would be very much in play. But Darko is a major risk. For spare parts, or aging guys coming to the end? Sure. Not much downside for the Kings in the long run. But for the core guys, weak though they may be as a core? Then Darko has to REALLY succeed in order for you to break even. Has to play at a near All-Star level. That is the hope, of course. But I'm nowhere near confident enough in it to start rebuilding around him or anything.


And the thing is, I don't see why we would have to pay that much. Its like Kwame. I don't see ANYBODY giving up an established All-Star caliber player to get one of these guys (unless he's very old). People are hoping, and will give up quality guys, but just makes no sense to be giving up your main guys for a player who would be out of the league in a couple of years unless he picks up his game dramatically.

P.S. Darko, Delfino, Arroyo all could be outcasts who do not fit the Detroit mold. Could see them being available, especially if Brown returns. But Maxiel looks to be a prototypical Piston, think he'd be hard to pry away, and have more success in their system than most others.
 
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Bricklayer said:
I like the idea of getting Darko, but not at the price of one of our three best players. Anybody else would be game. Bobby is a completely logical fit for Detroit, and any non-core other player or players in a larger combo deal (maybe netting the also out of favor Delfino, even though we do not need another young OG, or Arroyo to replace Bobby) would be very much in play. But Darko is a major risk. For spare parts, or aging guys coming to the end? Sure. Not much downside for the Kings in the long run. But for the core guys, weak though they may be as a core? Then Darko has to REALLY succeed in order for you to break even. Has to play at a near All-Star level. That is the hope, of course. But I'm nowhere near confident enough in it to start rebuilding around him or anything.


And the thing is, I don't see why we would have to pay that much. Its like Kwame. I don't see ANYBODY giving up an established All-Star caliber player to get one of these guys (unless he's very old). People are hoping, and will give up quality guys, but just makes no sense to be giving up your main guys for a player who would be out of the league in a couple of years unless he picks up his game dramatically.

P.S. Darko, Delfino, Arroyo all could be outcasts who do not fit the Detroit mold. Could see them being available, especially if Brown returns. But Maxiel looks to be a prototypical Piston, think he'd be hard to pry away, and have more success in their system than most others.

That works for me. . .Bobby and Thomas/Williamson/Skinner for Darko and Delfino/Arroyo. My quick take on Delfino:

1. Way too cool for school. Body language on the court is contemptuous of both opponents and teammates. Very laconic attitude.

2. Can really play well, but only in spurts. There were times that he DOMINATED, on both ends of the floor. At one point he's cutting baseline, catches a bounce pass, and throws down a monster two-hand jam for an And 1 against the Nuggets whole team. At other times he just lazily jogs up and down the floor, absolutely indifferent.

3. Does the annoying soccer injury ploy, where he lays down and exxagerates an injury in an attempt to get the next call. Once he had to sub out because he had stayed down so long and was subbed back in 15 seconds later.

I'm serious though, I would only acquire Darko as a replacement SF to Peja, and I am telling you it would work. Light a fire under his ***, and he might turn into something, because as soft a C as he is, he'd be a pretty physical SF. Another problem with him, I think the only English word he knows is "pick". He fired off a string of Serbian at an official, probably because he didn't want to get T'd up. But he never talked to any teammates during the game, or pulled them aside during timeouts. He sure called out picks though.
 
Venom said:
That works for me. . .Bobby and Thomas/Williamson/Skinner for Darko and Delfino/Arroyo. My quick take on Delfino:

1. Way too cool for school. Body language on the court is contemptuous of both opponents and teammates. Very laconic attitude.

2. Can really play well, but only in spurts. There were times that he DOMINATED, on both ends of the floor. At one point he's cutting baseline, catches a bounce pass, and throws down a monster two-hand jam for an And 1 against the Nuggets whole team. At other times he just lazily jogs up and down the floor, absolutely indifferent.

3. Does the annoying soccer injury ploy, where he lays down and exxagerates an injury in an attempt to get the next call. Once he had to sub out because he had stayed down so long and was subbed back in 15 seconds later.

I'm serious though, I would only acquire Darko as a replacement SF to Peja, and I am telling you it would work. Light a fire under his ***, and he might turn into something, because as soft a C as he is, he'd be a pretty physical SF. Another problem with him, I think the only English word he knows is "pick". He fired off a string of Serbian at an official, probably because he didn't want to get T'd up. But he never talked to any teammates during the game, or pulled them aside during timeouts. He sure called out picks though.

If you are saying Darko as SF then he must extreme quickness for a &7footer. I say his best position is PF. He has some post game and can mix it up pretty good inside outside game and with passing he would work well in the high post we run
 
AleksandarN said:
If you are saying Darko as SF then he must extreme quickness for a &7footer. I say his best position is PF. He has some post game and can mix it up pretty good inside outside game and with passing he would work well in the high post we run


His quickness is fair, he stayed with some guards/SFs on some switches. He's definitely better than the Peja's and Antoine Walker's of the world. Plus, he's longer and much more muscled. His post game is not at the NBA level for a PF or C. I would much rather have him to fill Peja's role on the Kings, although Darko's limited post skills would allow him to destroy guys like Bowen, Hassel, and Brevin Knight. Or force a switch pretty darn quick. He's got pretty good court vision too, as he made a couple passes that raised my eyebrows.

Basically I went in there today trying to be objective but also looking for ways to pan him as a PF/C, and I found plenty of reasons for that. But, upon reflection, I think the guy would make a nice SF. Really nice in fact. The NBA game is just different. Eventually, he'll kill folks at the PF spot in international and European competition. But he'll never come close in the NBA. SF is where he can do some big things in this league. It's like Radmanovic. Very mediocre PF, but a sweet shooting, big SF. I imagine Vlad still plays PF for the national team though, on account of Peja and others.
 
Venom said:
His quickness is fair, he stayed with some guards/SFs on some switches. He's definitely better than the Peja's and Antoine Walker's of the world. Plus, he's longer and much more muscled. His post game is not at the NBA level for a PF or C. I would much rather have him to fill Peja's role on the Kings, although Darko's limited post skills would allow him to destroy guys like Bowen, Hassel, and Brevin Knight. Or force a switch pretty darn quick. He's got pretty good court vision too, as he made a couple passes that raised my eyebrows.

Basically I went in there today trying to be objective but also looking for ways to pan him as a PF/C, and I found plenty of reasons for that. But, upon reflection, I think the guy would make a nice SF. Really nice in fact. The NBA game is just different. Eventually, he'll kill folks at the PF spot in international and European competition. But he'll never come close in the NBA. SF is where he can do some big things in this league. It's like Radmanovic. Very mediocre PF, but a sweet shooting, big SF. I imagine Vlad still plays PF for the national team though, on account of Peja and others.

Then how many 7'1" players can play SF as you suggest Darko can play. If that is the case then he would be a very very specail player because I can only name two players that are 7' and both of them are superstars in their own right. I saw his post game he does have a good hook shot and an off the glass move that is not bad. He has the footwork to play in the post he just needs more in game time. Also at PF he could take any PF off the dribble if he has the speed you say he has. That is why he would be perfect on the high post in this team because he could pick and pop, pass and take his player off the dribble
 
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AleksandarN said:
Then how many 7'1" players can play SF as you suggest Darko can play. If that is the case then he would be a very very specail player because I can only name two players that are 7' and both of them are superstars in their own right. I saw his post game he does have a good hook shot and an off the glass move that is not bad. He has the footwork to play in the post he just needs more in game time. Also at PF he could take any PF off the dribble if he has the speed you say he has. That is why he would be perfect on the high post in this team because he could pick and pop, pass and take his player off the dribble

His post moves are not NBA caliber for a PF/C. I also don't care what his height is, I am saying what position his skills are suited for. I'm not saying the guy has blinding speed, I am saying he has sufficient athleticism to man the position, especially when compared to some of the other non-athletic wonders throughout the league. He's a bigger Peja, how many guys does Peja consistantly take off the dribble, at 3 or 4 spot?
 
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