Pistons @ kings Game Thread

piksi · Nov 8, 2005

There is no place like HOME - even more for the Kings. Finally ARCO roar. Home opener has been a very good omen for the Kings in the past several years. New season, new players, sell out, hungry fans even more after WNBA title. Smells like a victory.
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Kings 1-2 looking to get even and looking for winning streak playing for the first time at home this season. Things are looking better after the rotation shortened and Mike and Pedja decided that it wouldn't hurt to show up even if it was for only one quarter in some case.
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History repeat itself - everyone knows that. When Kings need a win desperately - they need to play Suns on the road. Last year Kings started 'slow", we had to play Suns who were tearing it up and I was not able to watch so I had to tape it. Same happened this year. Good to know that there are things - we can count on. Now - last year after beating Suns - Kings went on to win 12 out of 13 games. I sure wouldn't mind. Not at all.
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Last game was yet another example for:

-the fact that Kings will get as far as Pedja and Mike can carry us. Everyone else needs to play well to and some of the guys are capable of putting big numbers but the impact is not quite the same

- the fact that Kings did not address defense during the preseason

- the fact that our bench will need time before we can utilize it fully

- the fact that Kings are not "dead" and can still play with the best of it.
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Tonight we play Pistons which are IMHO the best NBA team at the moment. It will be a lot of work. Things that we have going for us are ARCO, the fact that we haven't lost to them at ARCO in a long time, we can shoot. Did I mention ARCO ? We will have to defend and I am not sure that we can. We are rebounding somewhat better but nothing spetacular. Big minutes for the starters again - i assume.
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Mike - woke up but still can improve. Will have to work hard against Billups. Tough matchup for everyone
Pedja - 3rd quarter

. More of that and more often.
Wells - Rip is tering it up and Wells will have his hands full. Foul trouble possible
SAR - TD posibility
Brad - also. He will be blocked several times tonight
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We had a same issue with the bench last season and it took some time. All those guys are playing well now just somwhere else. Patience is required.
Thomas & Williamson need to be traded before things escalate.
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RA - finally realized that he can not play the bench all at the same time. 49 victories shy of his usual quotum.
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Pistons - Flip is back in town. Mo will try to win the "Jon Barry memorial" tonight. ARCO will get to see Darko. Will be a good game and I have a good feeling so:
Kings

Pistons

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Go Hawks !
Go Bucks !

HndsmCelt · Nov 8, 2005

Nice job. Looking forward to the game and hope the guys realize that this is NOT a team that will just let them shooth their way out of trouble. That being said home opener in Arco is the last place any team wants to play... should be BIG fun tonight.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

I didn't see that at all.

Those two did anything but CARRY the team.

Peja had a crazy QTR and Bibby shot well ... but they didn't CARRY anyone. If any load bearing was done it was done by Reef and Miller. They gobbled the boards and distributed the ball and scored efficiently.

The reason we did will was good ball movement and great spacing. We rotated to the best shot instead of taking four dribbles and puking up garbage.

I think you should rephrase to say that the Kings will only get as far as our team concept can carry us.

tyrant · Nov 8, 2005

as always great job piksi.

i couldn't agree more. ^^

this won't be another suns shootout. this detroit team is rough. we need to get in transition and get easy baskets.

the three keys to winning tonight will be

1. stop hamilton. (he runs more than reggie miller and it will be important to make sure bonzi slows hamilton's mid range game)
2. box out. ( we're not famous for our rebounding, however we did become a better rebounding team with bonzi in the mix) we all know what bonzi is capable of doing; pulling down 18 the last game. shareef can also explode for 12+ rebounds. kenny thomas and brad miller are both 10 rebound a game players. THESE ARE 4 PLAYERS that have the potential to pull down 10 boards a game. we should outrebound almost every team in the league.
3. shots need to fall. bibby and peja are the best shooting combo in the league.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

tyrant said:

Bonzi has been getting killed lately... and seems to be getting into pissing matches with the opposite SG. If he goes off for another 18-20 shots I think I'll wring his neck. That's just too many shots.

We should note that an 18 rebound game was an abberation.

This is a guy that averages around 4 or 5 rebounds a game. I'm loving what I'm seeign out of Wells, but to assume he's a guy that can get 10 a game is going a little far.

Wow. That's a bold statement.

I'm sure Terry and Dirk would argue, as would many others.

Bibby and Peja are one of the best, but THE BEST? I dunno about that.

piksi · Nov 8, 2005

deviflux said:

I didn't see that at all.

Those two did anything but CARRY the team.

Peja had a crazy QTR and Bibby shot well ... but they didn't CARRY anyone. If any load bearing was done it was done by Reef and Miller. They gobbled the boards and distributed the ball and scored efficiently.

The reason we did will was good ball movement and great spacing. We rotated to the best shot instead of taking four dribbles and puking up garbage.

I think you should rephrase to say that the Kings will only get as far as our team concept can carry us.

I think I got it right especially considering the first 2 games of the season

vj9999 · Nov 8, 2005

Darko rhymes with ARCO.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

piksi said:

The first two games of the season is EXACTLY why I think you are wrong.

The first two games of the season had Bibby and Peja trying to create their own shots ... outside of the flow of the offense. This was leading to stupid shots and turnovers. They were forcing it and not playing a team game.

When they let the offense do it's thing, and played the TEAM concept ... we did well.

All this has to do with is trust and getting used to one another. But, CARRY the team is a bad term, I think.

piksi · Nov 8, 2005

deviflux said:

The first two games of the season is EXACTLY why I think you are wrong.

The first two games of the season had Bibby and Peja trying to create their own shots ... outside of the flow of the offense. This was leading to stupid shots and turnovers. They were forcing it and not playing a team game.

When they let the offense do it's thing, and played the TEAM concept ... we did well.

All this has to do with is trust and getting used to one another. But, CARRY the team is a bad term, I think.

we will see how many games we will win when Pedja and Mike play like in the first 2 games

piksi · Nov 8, 2005

vj9999 said:

tyrant · Nov 8, 2005

deviflux said:

i don't agree with your posts. how is bibby and peja not the best shooting combo in the leauge. and since when did jason terry become an elite shooter? peja is 3point champ and bibby is one of the few point guards in the league that is known for killing teams in the closing seconds.

on the rebounding issue, i know 18 rebounds in one game was probably a one hit wonder, but the guy can still pull down 10 rebounds a game on any given night. and so can miller, rahim and thomas.

yanon · Nov 8, 2005

I think Deviflux has a point. Someone who carries a team is someone who makes his teammates better and do many things well. So far, I see that SAR and BMiller are providing points, rebounds, and assists whereas Peja and BB are only providing mostly points.

kingsfannPDX · Nov 8, 2005

i'll just add a
GO KINGS!!!!!!!!!!!

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

tyrant said:

Because they are among the best.

I don't think anyone can give a deinitive BEST combo. There are things that other players can do that others can't and vice versa.

Bibby = 44% / 36% (3 3's a year)
Terry = 44% / 37% (4 3's a year)

Last year, on a good team:
Terry = 50% / 42%

I'd say that's pretty good shooting.

Peja and Dirk are on similar levels as well.

How about Mike Miller & Eddie Jones?
How about Ray Allen & Rashard Lewis?
How about Webber & Korver?
How about Jefferson & Carter?

So? Shooting uncontested 3s means diddly to beat a clock means diddly.

He's a great shooter - but

Okay, and this has what to do with the price of rice in China?

So can Bibby or Peja. But, it's rare.

Bibby and Peja average only 1 less board to what Wells averages.

Perhaps Wells turned over a new leaf? It's possible. But, basing it on past performance ... Wells is not going to get 10 boards very often.

yanon · Nov 8, 2005

I wonder how Peja will score against Tayshaun Prince. If he can't score effectively from outside, then the Pistons (Wallace x2) will just crowd the inside and making things difficult for SAR and BMiller. I hope that Bonzi is a good enough slasher to disrupt the Piston defense. That was how Ginoboli destroyed the Pistons in the playoff when they locked down on TD.

Daniela · Nov 8, 2005

I am really excited about tonight's game. In my household this is our dream finals match up. I think the 2 teams tonight, are the most enjoyable to watch play the game. The Kings, when they are playing Kings B-Ball, are amazing to watch. Peja's 3's, Bibby's play, Millers shot, the ball movement etc...
And then you have Detroit. Rip with his constant zipping around the court and making incredible shots, Chauncey's hard play, Tey's blocks and high fliers, Big Ben being Big Ben and maybe possibly attempting a 3. He is 50% in practice you know. And you just never know what is going to happen with Rasheed. Tonight will be fun. Please make this day go by faster.

piksi · Nov 8, 2005

yanon said:

This is not about providing anything. It is not about numbers.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

yanon said:

That's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying that they aren't going to be major contributers and possibly the biggest ... but to say we'll go as far as they CARRY us is a BOLD statement.

To me, a guy that CARRIES a team is a guy like Shaq. A guy like Duncan.

If we lost Bibby - we'll lose a step, but I think we'll still go to the playoffs.

If we lost Peja (and I think we will lose him at midseason) - we'll still make the playoffs.

It will be a tougher road, but the team doesn't DEPEND on those players.

I think the most KEY cog in the whole equation is Miller. He's the key ingredient. Even if he doesn't lead in any category - I think he's the puzzle piece that links it all together. If we lose Miller, I think we'd have a tough time making the playoffs.

DeAtHrOw · Nov 8, 2005

piksi said:

I guess points don't count for anything

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

piksi said:

Then if you aren't carrying the team through stats and you aren't carrying the team through actions or deeds ... and you aren't carrying them through leadership ... then how are you carrying the team?

piksi · Nov 8, 2005

It is not that hard.

It started with Vlade and Webber and Kings played well when they played well regardless what the numbers were and what other players did. When they played "bad" Kings usually lost. Now we have Pedja and Mike and it is the same thing.

Just look the defensive focus of every opponent we face. Everybody else profits from Mike and Pedja when they are playing well and shooting well.
With all due respect SAR has been "carrying" teams before and we know how that went.

PFFFT!! · Nov 8, 2005

I agree with you Piksi. Specially the Thomas and Williamson trade.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

piksi said:

Because they ran the offense and initiated the offense. They passed to the open players on cuts or when they broke the defense.

Neither Bibby or Peja is really adept at this.

We lose all THREE of these games if Miller and Reef play poorly and Mike/Peja have the same games they had.

Reef/Miller have been CARRYING the load.

Yes, they've made a concerted effort to double ANYONE in the post.

Who? Mike/Peja shot well because the post was getting doubled and they were getting open shots ... NOT vice versa.

Peja wasn't drilling shots and thusly opening up the middle. Peja got open looks because Miller/Reef were drawing Peja's man into the middle. Which caused poor rotation by the Suns, which resulted in open looks for Peja.

SAR hasn't had an IOTA of the talent that Peja & Bibby have been surrounded with. Making that comparison is completely and utterly unfounded.

yanon · Nov 8, 2005

When Cwebb was carrying the Kings, he averaged 20, 10, and 5. Similar to Cwebb's numbers, SAR's statistics are also well balanced. SAR got the crucial block to win the game for the Kings on Sunday night. Brad is also passing the ball in the high post just like Vlade used to do. If Peja can score 30+ against Tayshaun Prince, then you would have a valid argument that he instead of SAR is carrying the team.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

yanon said:

Personally, I don't think ANY of these players is good enough, on their own, to CARRY a team.

This is a TEAM effort. We will win and lose as a team.

The problem we had the other two games is that Bibby/Peja had horrendous games ... but dominated the ball. They didn't defer. They weren't getting anyone involved and it was Atlanta Hawks one-on-one basketball ... and none of these players is good enough to play that way and expect a good outcome.

I'm going to go on record as saying that Reef/Miller's performance is more important than that of our Guards. Just like you mentioned above - Reef is Webber and Miller is Vlade. Are they as good as those two? That remains to be seen ... but probably not. But, that's why Peja/Bibby are there ... to help out with the deficiencies of the team.

I know it's hard to accept that the mainstays aren't the be-all, end-all with the team, but I think it's a simple truth. You win games, especially in the playoffs ... from the INSIDE. Not the OUTSIDE.

serious kings fan · Nov 8, 2005

Just like Dorothy says "there's no place like home".

Goooooo KINGS

yanon · Nov 8, 2005

It is true that none of them are close to the Superstar level but I just felt that SAR and Brad contributed way more than Peja and Bibby did. Anyway, this team is still evolving. I think 20 games from now. We will see who is the main work horse for this team.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

yanon said:

And I agree with you. My post was in total agreement.

I'm guessing it will remain Shareef and Miller, but that's just because I like inside players and I like our chances more when we utilize those players.

If we go ot an outside-in game, this will be a LOOOOONG season and a very short playoff.

yanon · Nov 8, 2005

With the exception of MJ's teams, most championship teams won their titles with dominant inside players. It is obvious that taking inside shots are better than taking outside shots (50+% + foul > 40%) when opponent's defense is tight which is almost always the case during the playoff.

Anyway, any of you guys notice that AK47 got 7 blocks last night? This guy is amazing. It is refreshing to see a white guy play the kind of defense he is playing. I think it has to do with him being Russian. Russians are generally the toughest among the Europeans.

deviflux · Nov 8, 2005

yanon said:

MJ WAS a dominant inside player. Just not in the typical mold.

Plus - it was a different era of basketball.

Over-Rated.

Dum-dum-dumdumdum

Over - Rated!

Pistons @ kings Game Thread

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