Phil Jackson new Lakers coach!

[Warhawk]

So far Phil has compared Kobe to Jordan.

He has said Kobe will be even better without Shaq.

He has said Kobe is the best floor player in the game, better than Shaq, Duncan, etc... but there size gives them more impact.

Kobe called Phil the morning he was hired to give him congrats and they talked awhile about players roles etc..

But yeah.....they hate each other.

A lot of folks have compared Kobe to Jordan. Your point is? That Phil recognizes Kobe's talents? Who doesn't? This is news? Kobe is a VERY talented player - nobody disputes that. Phil would be stupid to say anything else, especially with his wagon hooked to that horse.

Kobe better w/o Shaq? Best floor player in the game? Didn't happen last year, but maybe it will. What does this have to do with them being able to work together? Lots of "great" players cannot play for certain coaches or with certain players, or at least not effectively. Publically calling a guy "uncoachable" and detailing the lousy attitude Kobe had toward his teammates and the coach is a much more telling action to me.

Of course Kobe talked with Phil about the team - he is the star player and Phil is the former coach returning after Kobe ran him off last year. Did you think he'd wait to training camp to talk to him?

Nothing has yet been stated or printed (that I have seen) to give the impression that these two are actually happy to see each other again. Critically read everything that has been said and let me know if you can find anything in the past, oh, 2 months or so that says more than:

"I think it's a matter of trust, a matter of rebuilding the trust that we had," Jackson said of his relationship with Bryant. "And yes, I have talked to Kobe; he actually called me this morning to congratulate me on the job. And I felt confident that he's confident that we can go forward."

or:

"In Phil Jackson, they chose a proven winner. That is something I support."

Sorry - those are not "ringing endorsements" of each other in my book....

 

[Gargamel]

Hah. I love his facial expression.

I'm trying to find this other pic where his lazy eye is working overtime. I'll post it if I can.

 

[Gargamel]

I'm not sure what to make of Phil's doting on Kobe. I'm skeptical of it since he hasn't done it before even when Kobe was following the program. I think he's doing it because he has to go thru Kobe now that Shaq's out.

 

[NK64]

Who read Phil Jackson's "The Last Season"? If all you've seen are the ESPN excerpts, you're getting a highly warped and inaccurate picture. If you're at all interested in this book and want to know what the real story is (and since most of you are Kings fans, I highly doubt it ), I suggest you purchase the book.

I am sure if i care to read it i can get a copy for free at the public library

 

[Lamar_Odom]

$

Phil's unique, but he still has human motivations. That's why I always disagreed when anyone said he would never return just because of Kobe. He wants to make more coin before retiring. The spotlight and the relevancy of the position "Laker head coach" he eats up as well.

I disagree. I believe he says a challenge of taking a team not ready for a championship into contention, and ultimately, the prize!

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I've said this before about Phil Jackson and Kobe. I read Phil's book and he slams Kobe for essentially being selfish, immature and narcissitic.

I just don't see those two personalities coexisting at this point. But, I guess that is the great challenge for the Zen master!

Jackson says his return about healing, reconciliation, on top of the challenge that is presented to him to bring a team that is not a contender into becoming a champion. After this run, Jackson's legacy never building a team into a championship from this board will be deeply tarnished!

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I don't see it as a thing between Phil and Kobe. Personally, I think Dr. Buss sent a very loud message today by rehiring Jackson. I think he pretty much made it clear that he considers Jackson to be more important and valuable to the future of the Lakers than Kobe Bryant. I'm going to be watching with interest to see how this plays out.

If Kobe doesn't "worship at the feet of the Zen Master," is he going to become one of the most expensive pieces of trade bait ever? The Lakers could pretty much rebuild their entire team if they moved Kobe's salary. They're clearly in rebuild mode, so just how much of the old are they going to keep? Or, as I'm wondering, are they taking it down to the foundation and totally starting over?

It could get very interesting in LA this season.

I disagree. Dr. Buss knows that Kobe is a winner and bringing in a proven winner only increases their chances. Kobe knows that he needs a respectable coach to win, and Jackson is just that.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I'm not sure what to make of Phil's doting on Kobe. I'm skeptical of it since he hasn't done it before even when Kobe was following the program. I think he's doing it because he has to go thru Kobe now that Shaq's out.

After last year, and since he will no longer be second fiddle, I'm sure Kobe will be totally into this reunion.

 

[thesanityannex]

After last year, and since he will no longer be second fiddle, I'm sure Kobe will be totally into this reunion.

Of course, Phildo and Kobe have always gotten along. I bet they are at PJ's beach house right now celebrating their reunion, barbequeing some hotdogs and sipping on maritini's, while their significant others swim in the pool. Hey, look, Jerome James just invited himself over for the BBQ! How fun!

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Of course, Phildo and Kobe have always gotten along. I bet they are at PJ's beach house right now celebrating their reunion, barbequeing some hotdogs and sipping on maritini's, while their significant others swim in the pool. Hey, look, Jerome James just invited himself over for the BBQ! How fun!

Totally out of context.

 

[thesanityannex]

we were talking about reunions right?^^^^^

 

[Warhawk]

Totally out of context.

Not really - your arguement is that Phil and Kobe are 100% over their "differences" and are best of buds, happy to be working together again, right?

 

[Gargamel]

I disagree. I believe he says a challenge of taking a team not ready for a championship into contention, and ultimately, the prize!

I hope you're right, but I'm not expecting it. Mitch has to start closing deals before that's even a remote possibility.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Not really - your arguement is that Phil and Kobe are 100% over their "differences" and are best of buds, happy to be working together again, right?

Who said anything about 100%? And who said anything about best buds? Like I said, totally out of context!

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I hope you're right, but I'm not expecting it. Mitch has to start closing deals before that's even a remote possibility.

Jackson says it will take some time to clean things up. I hope that means getting rid of Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown immediately. LOL. All I know is Jackson is a proven winner, someone with a lot of credibility. If anyone can turn things around, Jackson is the first one to come to mind. He has a lot of challenges ahead of him. This is the kind of situation he cherishes. I have no doubt he will succeed.

 

[thesanityannex]

Who said anything about 100%? And who said anything about best buds? Like I said, totally out of context!

Well, this quote here you posted seems like you think Kobe is looking forward to Phildo's return.

"I'm sure Kobe will be totally into this reunion."<<<<Lamar Odom

Is it unreasonable to assume they won't celebrate his comeback with a sausage and martini party??? I hope I am invited.

 

[KA_2]

Actually no, these are the facts naive fans (you) don't know about because you never read Jackson's book and certainly never followed the Laker saga. Not surprising though, you are a Kings fan after all.

Bump.

 

[Gargamel]

Bueller? Bueller?

 

[Bibby_Is_Clutch]

I'm trying to find this other pic where his lazy eye is working overtime. I'll post it if I can.

Hah... Ill try to find it too.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Well, this quote here you posted seems like you think Kobe is looking forward to Phildo's return.

"I'm sure Kobe will be totally into this reunion."<<<<Lamar Odom

Is it unreasonable to assume they won't celebrate his comeback with a sausage and martini party??? I hope I am invited.

Kobe might have some issues that have to get cleared up with Jackson but working with a proven winner should get him excited. Knowing that he'll be the focal point of the offense should get him excited. The thought of winning more games, having a coach that is disciplined and will take nothing less should get him excited. I don't understand why that is so difficult to see.

 

[Warhawk]

Kobe might have some issues that have to get cleared up with Jackson but working with a proven winner should get him excited. Knowing that he'll be the focal point of the offense should get him excited. The thought of winning more games, having a coach that is disciplined and will take nothing less should get him excited. I don't understand why that is so difficult to see.

He has a lot of issues, both on the court and off, that speak to a lack of maturity.

Playing with the most dominant big man of our time should have excited him. Playing for arguably the best coach of our time should have excited him. Apparently, it wasn't enough, and it took a little off-the-court action to get him excited about playing....

The potential is not difficult to see, but the facts are that neither have appeared to be excited about being reunited. I don't understand why that is so difficult for YOU to see. Your statements are all wishful "pie-in-the-sky" hopes, not based on any evidence we have seen so far....

 

[Gargamel]

He has a lot of issues, both on the court and off, that speak to a lack of maturity.

Playing with the most dominant big man of our time should have excited him. Playing for arguably the best coach of our time should have excited him. Apparently, it wasn't enough, and it took a little off-the-court action to get him excited about playing....

The potential is not difficult to see, but the facts are that neither have appeared to be excited about being reunited. I don't understand why that is so difficult for YOU to see. Your statements are all wishful "pie-in-the-sky" hopes, not based on any evidence we have seen so far....

Sheez. You act like Kobe hasn't played a full 8 yrs with Shaq and 5 with Phil. Just because they parted ways in a tissy doesn't mean times were always tough. They did have a pretty successful streak together. While I don't expect Kobe and Phil to French kiss when they meet, I do think they're capable of working together in relative harmony for the great majority of their relationship. That's already been proven.

 

[Packt]

Bump.

What, you didn't get a satisfying enough answer? I don't follow the Lakers much, and I haven't read Phil's book, but one couldn't keep away from the drama last year because it was forced down our throats every second.

Reality is, the Lakers organization and some fans have been trying their best to clean up their golden boy's image. It makes no business sense to have the face of your franchise continue to play in mud. How was it not Kobe's fault that trio broke up. He knew he was opting out, and there was no reason to play nice since there were no obligations for next year. The organization knew he had beef with Shaq and Phil, and if those guys are back, most likely Kobe won't be. Kobe said as much, maybe not in those words, but he certainly wasn't happy playing along side Shaq anymore. Hungry for his own team and with Shaq there it was never going to be his. The organization had to make decisions that would put them in the best position to bring Kobe back. They did so by letting Shaq and Phil go. Kobe said publicly he wasn't fond of Phil as a person but loved him as a coach. As an owner, how would you take that? He said he loved Phil as a coach but what else was he going to say- that he didn't like Phil's coaching, the coaching that won rings?

Kobe probably never explicitly said to drop certain guys, but everything else he's said made it abundantly clear how felt about coming back. It wasn't until the other guy’s deals were very much solidified that he made the commitment to the Lakers.

 

[thesanityannex]

Kobe might have some issues that have to get cleared up with Jackson but working with a proven winner should get him excited. Knowing that he'll be the focal point of the offense should get him excited. The thought of winning more games, having a coach that is disciplined and will take nothing less should get him excited. I don't understand why that is so difficult to see.

I don't know, maybe just the fact that they can't stand one another, as they have both openly stated.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

They can't stand each other? That's more of a media "fact" other than internal Lakers reality. 'love your sources, though.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

He has a lot of issues, both on the court and off, that speak to a lack of maturity.

Kobe has shown a lot of maturity since Shaq's departure. You're living in a time of two years ago, it seems.

Playing with the most dominant big man of our time should have excited him. Playing for arguably the best coach of our time should have excited him. Apparently, it wasn't enough, and it took a little off-the-court action to get him excited about playing....

He wasn't excited about the work ethic of Shaq. The Lakers made a business decision to move him. I don't see how this is Kobe's fault.

The potential is not difficult to see, but the facts are that neither have appeared to be excited about being reunited. I don't understand why that is so difficult for YOU to see. Your statements are all wishful "pie-in-the-sky" hopes, not based on any evidence we have seen so far....

It sure looks like you're wishing it won't work for the Lakers. Other than the fact that the best organization in the history of professional basketball has embraced Jackson, what makes you think that they have not worked on their differences in private, and still currently working on it? You seem very well informed of what the media has been saying but I'm willing to say that the media doesn't everything. What unfortunate though is that fans go with what the media says as absolute fact.

 

[funkykingston]

What unfortunate though is that fans go with what the media says as absolute fact.

I'm going by Jackson's own words when he said that Kobe was immature and uncoachable and that he refused to return if Kobe was back the next year. He also tried to trade Kobe for Marion.

These aren't musings of a beat reporter, this is what Jackson said himself.

 

[KA_2]

What, you didn't get a satisfying enough answer? I don't follow the Lakers much, and I haven't read Phil's book, but one couldn't keep away from the drama last year because it was forced down our throats every second.

Reality is, the Lakers organization and some fans have been trying their best to clean up their golden boy's image. It makes no business sense to have the face of your franchise continue to play in mud. How was it not Kobe's fault that trio broke up. He knew he was opting out, and there was no reason to play nice since there were no obligations for next year. The organization knew he had beef with Shaq and Phil, and if those guys are back, most likely Kobe won't be. Kobe said as much, maybe not in those words, but he certainly wasn't happy playing along side Shaq anymore. Hungry for his own team and with Shaq there it was never going to be his. The organization had to make decisions that would put them in the best position to bring Kobe back. They did so by letting Shaq and Phil go. Kobe said publicly he wasn't fond of Phil as a person but loved him as a coach. As an owner, how would you take that? He said he loved Phil as a coach but what else was he going to say- that he didn't like Phil's coaching, the coaching that won rings?

Kobe probably never explicitly said to drop certain guys, but everything else he's said made it abundantly clear how felt about coming back. It wasn't until the other guy’s deals were very much solidified that he made the commitment to the Lakers.

I don't really understand what your point is. Jackson is now the head coach of the Lakers. If Kobe kicked him out last summer, why did Jackson come back, and why didn't Kobe demand the Lakers to not bring him back? Or why not demand a trade? The fact that Jackson is coaching the Lakers is pretty much the most solid proof anyone needs to realize Kobe had nothing to do with Jackson's departure last summer. His book explains this fact quite thoroughly. You said you didn't read Jackson's book, but that's a big deal, as he explained pretty much what happened last year. And what happened is that he got burned out and tired of coaching, he needed time off. Remember, Jackson could have coached anywhere for the same money he's getting in LA. Why pick LA if Kobe kicked him out? Because Kobe never kicked him out.

But don't tell Ryle.

 

[KA_2]

I'm going by Jackson's own words when he said that Kobe was immature and uncoachable and that he refused to return if Kobe was back the next year. He also tried to trade Kobe for Marion.

These aren't musings of a beat reporter, this is what Jackson said himself.

He also said those things were true earlier in the year and that he understood why Kobe was acting that way (rape trial). He also said in his book that his relationship with Kobe improved immensely as the season whined down, and that after the Finals they had repaired much of their differences.

Oh, and uh, he's now coaching Mr. Uncoachable. Maybe, just maybe, people like to take things out of context. We know people like to put their own slant on things, as anyone who read "The Last Season" knows that the lack of any media coverage whatsoever of the Shaq criticism Phil had for him was completely irresponsible as a journalist.

 

[Warhawk]

Kobe has shown a lot of maturity since Shaq's departure. You're living in a time of two years ago, it seems.

He wasn't excited about the work ethic of Shaq. The Lakers made a business decision to move him. I don't see how this is Kobe's fault.

It sure looks like you're wishing it won't work for the Lakers. Other than the fact that the best organization in the history of professional basketball has embraced Jackson, what makes you think that they have not worked on their differences in private, and still currently working on it? You seem very well informed of what the media has been saying but I'm willing to say that the media doesn't everything. What unfortunate though is that fans go with what the media says as absolute fact.

How exactly has he shown maturity? By his interactions with his teammates? Not exactly:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7321241/
A rift between Kobe Bryant and Chucky Atkins isn’t exactly like Lennon and McCartney going their separate ways. But it’s just the latest in a series of signs that the club is not responding to Bryant’s leadership.

Lamar Odom has not seemed comfortable playing with Bryant all season. Rudy Tomjanovich lasted half a season as head coach, and although it’s unfair to blame Bryant for his sudden departure, rumors remain that the strain of dealing with the strong-willed superstar had a negative effect on Rudy T’s well-being. Interim coach Frank Hamblen declared after a loss last week in Denver that his players had quit on him.

Then there’s the little matter of the team’s record. Bryant has been getting his shots and then some, but the rest of the Lakers seem aimless. Defensively, they resemble blind men in heavy traffic. Under Bryant’s stewardship the Lakers are now 33-37, in 10th place in the West, 5 1/2 games behind the Denver Nuggets for the eighth and final playoff berth.

These 2004-05 Lakers have had a taste of what the future holds with Kobe in control, and they don’t seem to like it much. If the franchise insists on building around Kobe, it will have to clean house again, because this entourage has packed it in.

Shaq's work ethic may have left something to be desired, but Kobe's selfish, stupid, and self-destructive actions hurt the team a lot more than Shaq's ever did.

I am not wishing well or ill, I am just commenting on the public statements of those involved. Very acrimonious things were said between these two and Kobe's actions often reflected his lack of respect for the coach and the team (refusing to do as Phil asked in practices, etc.). You seem to think everything is hunky-dory all of a sudden, when NOTHING is there to indicate that, other than these two saying words to the effect of "I think we might be able to work it out and move forward".

Again, as I said, not exactly a ringing endorsement....