Peja Stojakovic
- Thread starter VF21
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Most of us have criticized Bibby for his performance 2 games ago. The argument goes like this… with which I agree, Bibby has showed up for about 90% of the games and Peja has not. While I feel Peja did a great job against Orlando and put together a nice game…he hasn't done that for the majority of the season like Bibby. So any off night for Peja during the last 17 games will be looked at a lot closer then if Bibby has an off night. Bibby has that good will in the bank this season and Peja does not.
I think most here have been open and outspoken about knocking Bibby about his lack of “D”. Just look at Piksi’s game thread before everygame, it mentions Bibby's lack of "D" almost every time.
I think most here have been open and outspoken about knocking Bibby about his lack of “D”. Just look at Piksi’s game thread before everygame, it mentions Bibby's lack of "D" almost every time.
Most PGs are crappy defenders. Only defensive top starting PG i can think of are Parker and maybe Kidd in his hayday, the rest are rather average and most rather bad. Defensive Positions vary from the 2-5 mostly, the 1 is mostly an offensive Position, next most offensive position and crappiest defensively is the 4 position where there are only a handful of good defensive players. Defensively I think the 2 and the 3 are the strongest league wide.
Why is it considered hating on ppl when you say what they could do to become better? Bibby could play more defense, Mobley could pass better and more, Peja could do what he did last night for several games in a row instead of 1 every 10th game and he could rebound a little more. Songalia could be more aggresive posting up. Skinner could practice shooting outside the paint. Miller could jump higher than 3 inches.
You see its not just Peja. Its everybody in the NBA. Seems as if you only want us to say Peja can do no wrong. Sorry but thats not the case.
You see its not just Peja. Its everybody in the NBA. Seems as if you only want us to say Peja can do no wrong. Sorry but thats not the case.
While I would love to see Peja make a "statement" as you are claiming that he needs to make, I don't see why anyone would believe that it would happen. I think we all see and know that Peja is an extremely talented basketball player, and for the most part, I think he does well to improve his skills(with the exception of this last off-season). But can you teach someone to have a "pair"? Is that something that someone can add to their game or their personality? Seems hard to expect or even ask for something so intangible or immeasurable or unteachable.
NewEraKings05 said:
Oh, hockypuck!! Can't you give him a teensy weensy bit of credit?? 
Anyway, those must have been magic leotards he's been working out in. He did very well last night, I'll take it.
I imagine he will only improve.
Anyway, those must have been magic leotards he's been working out in. He did very well last night, I'll take it.
I imagine he will only improve.
I don't think Peja deserves That much credit for being a scorer who scores points against a weak defensive team. The NBA is RIPE with scorers who can light it up if given open shots. Voshon Leonard... Tim Thomas... Keith Van Horn... Rashard Lewis...
If Peja is a Superstar instead of just a journeyman level NBA scorer, he needs to pull down AT LEAST 6 or 7 boards a game. He needs AT LEAST 3 or 4 assists a night.
While it's great Peja is finding his shooting touch, last night's SF numbers are these:
Peja : 27 points on 18 shots 2/3 free throws 2 rebs 1 ast 0 stl 0 blk
GHill: 24 points on 19 shots 2/5 free throws 2 rebs 1 ast 1 stl 2 blk
I personally think Peja has TONS more talent and ability than Hill. Until the numbers show it too I'll have lots of questions.
you're right, Peja should be the player THAT Grant Hill was. If Peja is the same player as a guy who has been on the injured list for three straight years, had countless surgeries, and doubted whether he would ever be athletically capable of playing in the NBA again, he's certainly not the player we all hope and think he is.
Okay, you may be right, You may. But let's then take that the next step -- how many soft players have been major parts of NBA champions? And that is why Peja needs to prove he's not -- soft players do NOT win NBA championships, and if their teams have to depend on them those teams do NOT win championships. And if our goal is still to win a championship rather than just be a good team, than Peja can NOT be soft, or if he is he can NOT be a critical part of our team, can NOT be a guy we have to depend upon or we will never get that title.
I have never doubted Peja's ability to light it up against a weak opponent. Never. He can do that on talent alone. Even during his recent cold streak never once did I assume that Peja was suddenly a 35% shooter and 15ppg scorer. But I did doubt, and continue to doubt, everything else. "Softness" is a catch all for a wide variety of traits, but the root determinant of all those traits is the same: hunger, desire, toughness, competitiveness. Champions in every sport, every endeavor, have those traits. Peja never has shown them. And now as we rebuild this team toward what I can only assume is another hoped for championship push, he has to show them or he can't be here as anything more than a 4th or 5th option buried behind a stack of hungrier players. Or he can, but we'll never win if we have to depend on him.
In many ways the difference is that the trades have not shifted my focus -- I am not suddenly satisfied with being the cute little team from the cow town that makes the playoffs and looks pretty. I'm still thinking championship (albeit realistically not this year), and any player who is not a championship player is a disappointment. Mike Bibby is a championship player. I trust his desire and competitiveness implicitly. Peja...has a lot to prove. And scoring a bunch of points against one of the worst defensive teams in the league doesn't cover it.
I have never doubted Peja's ability to light it up against a weak opponent. Never. He can do that on talent alone. Even during his recent cold streak never once did I assume that Peja was suddenly a 35% shooter and 15ppg scorer. But I did doubt, and continue to doubt, everything else. "Softness" is a catch all for a wide variety of traits, but the root determinant of all those traits is the same: hunger, desire, toughness, competitiveness. Champions in every sport, every endeavor, have those traits. Peja never has shown them. And now as we rebuild this team toward what I can only assume is another hoped for championship push, he has to show them or he can't be here as anything more than a 4th or 5th option buried behind a stack of hungrier players. Or he can, but we'll never win if we have to depend on him.
In many ways the difference is that the trades have not shifted my focus -- I am not suddenly satisfied with being the cute little team from the cow town that makes the playoffs and looks pretty. I'm still thinking championship (albeit realistically not this year), and any player who is not a championship player is a disappointment. Mike Bibby is a championship player. I trust his desire and competitiveness implicitly. Peja...has a lot to prove. And scoring a bunch of points against one of the worst defensive teams in the league doesn't cover it.
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BRAVO!! Nice post, Bricklayer. There is no badmouthing Peja here. It is an honest assessment of what it takes to be a champion. Talent alone will not cut it in the NBA. God knows there is plenty of talent on plenty of teams. It is the HUNGER, DESIRE, TOUGHNESS, COMPETITIVENESS, that sets champions apart. The Pistons displayed all of that last year...to a man. That is why they are the current Champions.
If Peja wants to be a leader of a championship team then he will need to show these same characteristics. I haven't seen much of it either.......flashes in a couple of games, although none this year.
If Peja wants to be a leader of a championship team then he will need to show these same characteristics. I haven't seen much of it either.......flashes in a couple of games, although none this year.
This seems to have put the Kings in a tough spot. I agree with you that if the Kings are going to count on Peja down the stretch he must somehow toughen up or dig somewhere down inside himself and show that fire or desire or however you want to put it. And he has to do that in the tough situations and against the good teams and good defenders. Personally, I find it really hard to believe that he can, or that he has that special "it" inside of him somewhere. I think everyone here would agree that he has the talent as you stated above, but I don't see any evidence that would lead me to believe that he has everything else that it takes to be a champion. The reason I would say the Kings are in a tough spot is that now what do you do with him? Do you trade him, let him walk, hope he somehow finds that fire? He just seems like such a big wildcard right now, and as I stated before I don't see why we could believe that he may come through. I wouldn't want to start throwing big dollars at him if we weren't relatively confident that he has that edge needed to win a championship, or at least compete for one.
I disagree. At this point, we are rebuilding the team. If Peja is going to be a part of the foundation, he needs to be more than just a sharpshooter. He will command a high salary for his next contract and if the Kings are going to pony up an obscene amount of money to keep him, he cannot be one-dimensional.
For a long time, people compared Peja to Dirk Nowitzki and were loyal in their support of Peja as the better player. Well, in all honesty, Dirk's game has continued to grow and expand and he's become a true superstar. Peja hasn't done that - and if we're going to keep him, I think he must at least show a definite improvement in some areas.
The man is 6'10". There is NO reason his rebounding couldn't get a LITTLE better.
He showed some spirit against the Magic, and I am hopeful he's turned a corner and is going to really start working again to get his game back to where it was AND to improve it. He is right now the difference between a first round exit and perhaps a deeper juncture into the playoffs.
In addition, how he plays the rest of the year will tell me whether he's satisfied just collecting a paycheck or if he has any kind of desire to make himself better to help his team get better.
If he's just in it for the money, then to be brutally frank I'd just as soon someone else was signing the checks.
We'll have to wait and see. I started this thread because I was encouraged by what I had seen. Hopefully, I'll see more of it tonight...
For a long time, people compared Peja to Dirk Nowitzki and were loyal in their support of Peja as the better player. Well, in all honesty, Dirk's game has continued to grow and expand and he's become a true superstar. Peja hasn't done that - and if we're going to keep him, I think he must at least show a definite improvement in some areas.
The man is 6'10". There is NO reason his rebounding couldn't get a LITTLE better.
He showed some spirit against the Magic, and I am hopeful he's turned a corner and is going to really start working again to get his game back to where it was AND to improve it. He is right now the difference between a first round exit and perhaps a deeper juncture into the playoffs.
In addition, how he plays the rest of the year will tell me whether he's satisfied just collecting a paycheck or if he has any kind of desire to make himself better to help his team get better.
If he's just in it for the money, then to be brutally frank I'd just as soon someone else was signing the checks.
We'll have to wait and see. I started this thread because I was encouraged by what I had seen. Hopefully, I'll see more of it tonight...
Rebuilding or retooling?
VF21, I agree with most of your points. Even if he is only a top notch sharpshooter, he would still have value (lots of it) as trade bait. I am not advocating a trade nor do I believe that what we see now in Peja is all that he has to offer.
I am glad the Kings have very competent management from Petrie down.
VF21, I agree with most of your points. Even if he is only a top notch sharpshooter, he would still have value (lots of it) as trade bait. I am not advocating a trade nor do I believe that what we see now in Peja is all that he has to offer.
I am glad the Kings have very competent management from Petrie down.
Fair enough. I personally would consider "rebuilding" to describe a team about to go or in the gutter. The Kings are neither and hopefully will be able to avoid falling that far.
On a side note, its seems that the owners should follow the advice some fans have recommended to current and former players. It would be best not to say anything.
On a side note, its seems that the owners should follow the advice some fans have recommended to current and former players. It would be best not to say anything.
Again, I beg to differ.
After all the theorizing in the local media, citing of unnamed sources, unsubstantiated rumors, etc. (a lot of which was just plain wrong) I found it refreshing to actually hear one of the Maloofs come out and be open and honest.
Why shouldn't they be honest about what's going on? It is, after all, THEIR team and THEIR money. If they didn't think they could reach their goal with the existing players, they had every reason to make changes. And it was nice to hear what pretty much everyone knew anyway - once Vlade wasn't signed and especially when Doug left, a lot of people were talking about the shift in direction. The Webber trade made it pretty obvious.
I would rather hear the truth from someone than meaningless platitudes about this team I've loved since 1985.
In all fairness, there was more to Gavin's statement than what I posted above. He was also very complimentary about the players we have now, and especially about Brad, Peja and Mike. I'm sure he said more, but the piece had obviously been edited for time constraints.
After all the theorizing in the local media, citing of unnamed sources, unsubstantiated rumors, etc. (a lot of which was just plain wrong) I found it refreshing to actually hear one of the Maloofs come out and be open and honest.
Why shouldn't they be honest about what's going on? It is, after all, THEIR team and THEIR money. If they didn't think they could reach their goal with the existing players, they had every reason to make changes. And it was nice to hear what pretty much everyone knew anyway - once Vlade wasn't signed and especially when Doug left, a lot of people were talking about the shift in direction. The Webber trade made it pretty obvious.
I would rather hear the truth from someone than meaningless platitudes about this team I've loved since 1985.
In all fairness, there was more to Gavin's statement than what I posted above. He was also very complimentary about the players we have now, and especially about Brad, Peja and Mike. I'm sure he said more, but the piece had obviously been edited for time constraints.
I know it's just semantics but I wouldn't exactly say they are rebuilding. Rebuilding in todays terms does not mean what it use to. Having two prior All Stars + Bibby who should be an All Star on your roster, who are in their prime can't be considered rebuilding. Maybe rebuilding in the sense of a shift away from the focus being Webber. I would certainly agree with that.
I don't know. Yes, the owners have the right to say what they want, but sometimes it is best not said. You don't tell someone going into battle that the cause is wrong or lost. There was a interview during half-time right after the trade where one of the brothers gave what could be considered a concession statement. I don't remember the exact words but I didn't like it (not that it matters). The paying fans have just had to pony up for playoff tickets on top of already paying a Kings ransom for their season tickets. The owners do have a responsibility to the paying customer.
As long as there is hope, don't squash it. Time will take care of any unpleasant reality.
As long as there is hope, don't squash it. Time will take care of any unpleasant reality.
So the owners should keep quiet allow the media to run rampant with unfounded speculations?
Sorry, but I prefer to hear the truth. The paying fans deserve to know the truth. After everything that has gone on with this team over the past year, it's nice to just be able to put some things behind us.
"You don't tell someone going into battle that the cause is wrong or lost"? I think they knew it long before we did, if not openly then in their hearts.
And, for the record, this isn't war. It's business. BIG business. The "warriors" are being paid humongous amounts of money to play a game.
The final authority on all this is the fans. If they aren't happy, they'll show it by not buying those expensive tickets. I don't think that's going to happen.
Sorry, but I prefer to hear the truth. The paying fans deserve to know the truth. After everything that has gone on with this team over the past year, it's nice to just be able to put some things behind us.
"You don't tell someone going into battle that the cause is wrong or lost"? I think they knew it long before we did, if not openly then in their hearts.
And, for the record, this isn't war. It's business. BIG business. The "warriors" are being paid humongous amounts of money to play a game.
The final authority on all this is the fans. If they aren't happy, they'll show it by not buying those expensive tickets. I don't think that's going to happen.
Unfounded speculations about rebuilding?
Do you think they should say at the beginning of the season that the current squad has no chance and they are just a stop gap? If not, why would you imply that now? As far as dirty laundry being aired, was it good to confirm what the players wouldn't? The players acted professional about it, the owners did not.
I agree, the team is in good hands. Mediocracy won't cut it.
Was it? There was a chance (very slim to nil IMHO) this year, but next year was entirely a different story. Mediocray was not an acceptable future and I believe that was were the team would have been heading.
No, it is not war in the sense of guns and bombs spewing blood and guts. On a different level, business can be considered war with hostile take overs, forcing competion into capitulation, ect. There is a thing as psycological warfare and the owners may have inadvertantly fired a salvo over their own troops.
And I this is a long piece of gibberish.
Do you think they should say at the beginning of the season that the current squad has no chance and they are just a stop gap? If not, why would you imply that now? As far as dirty laundry being aired, was it good to confirm what the players wouldn't? The players acted professional about it, the owners did not.
I agree, the team is in good hands. Mediocracy won't cut it.
Was it? There was a chance (very slim to nil IMHO) this year, but next year was entirely a different story. Mediocray was not an acceptable future and I believe that was were the team would have been heading.
No, it is not war in the sense of guns and bombs spewing blood and guts. On a different level, business can be considered war with hostile take overs, forcing competion into capitulation, ect. There is a thing as psycological warfare and the owners may have inadvertantly fired a salvo over their own troops.
And I this is a long piece of gibberish.
