Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Ha! That's nothing compared to Gregoire Matimi or Julia Pringlesworth!
er...Merritt who???
PDA on the way out??
- Thread starter Albatros
- Start date
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Ha! That's nothing compared to Gregoire Matimi or Julia Pringlesworth!
er...Merritt who???
MizzouKing
Starter
I've heard this a few times, but can someone please just spell out WHY? The NBA is a business, everyone worth his salt gets fired a few times, the big boys know this...so why, specifically? Has Malone stated that he felt betrayed/outreached/hurt by being thrown under the bus by Vivec? Or is this just well-reasoned and logical supposition?
MizzouKing
Starter
Count me as someone NOT enamored with the idea of Petrie returning to the Kings. He peaked quite awhile ago, then got Magoofed and has been out of the biz for a long time. I'd prefer to look back on GP with appreciation, but not try to make the stale seem fresh.
Albatros
Starter
Having an experienced head next to Vlade is a very good idea IMO. Doesn't have to be Petrie but at least someone who's been there and done that (whatever that may be)
If Pete leaves It's another rookie front office going into an important off season. (accepting that Pete isn't exactly experienced)
If Pete leaves It's another rookie front office going into an important off season. (accepting that Pete isn't exactly experienced)
Larry David
Starter
No wonder the new owners keep selling us nostalgia for the 2002 team by the truck load. PDA's spot may open up, and fans start clamoring for a 67-year old GM that had a great eye for talent but had his issues with cap management and paying players appropriately. If we did bring in Petrie as Vlade's mentor for CBA and cap management, I would suspect that we'd use the mid-level exception every year. Because, before Petrie was charged with using his roster as a yard sale to keep the Maloofs liquid enough to make payroll, Petrie loved to grab borderline starters at 5.5 million per season, which clogged our cap and limited our ability to make major moves. His Peja and Bobby Jackson contracts around 2000 were super steals. But, after that, I wouldn't describe Petrie as very good with the CBA or contracts.
Regardless of his leadership skills and how relevant and translatable his post-play career is ... Vlade will eventually figure it out if he has a great eye for talent. And with the limitations on this franchise (Vivek, small market, no revenue sharing), he's going to fail is he doesn't have a great eye for talent. It really boils down to that.
But in the mean time, we need competent staff to help try to keep Cousins (without totally destroying our roster and options when he probably leaves in two years) and to smooth the transition.
We've got a rookie GM with no on-job work experience. We've got a stats guys that also doesn't have a ton of experience working at a high level in a basketball operations job. The most experienced guy is our head of scouting, who is a good dude and hard worker ... but isn't exactly an ace or innovator. The front office isn't staffed well with PDA and it's bare bones if he leaves.
You also have a coach, with no front office experience - who wants to win now at all costs because he's done in 3-5 years. Somebody needs to be in the room talking about what the smart teams are doing ... even if our owner is too stupid and arrogant to listen. Vlade, Bratz, and Karl talking about moves that were made 2 CBAs ago isn't going to cut it.
To me, I wouldn't be looking to get Petrie out of mothballs so he can brush up on the 2011 CBA and try to mold his 2002 success to 2016 as well as plan for the post-Cousins version of this franchise that he won't be a part of.
I would look to hire a young smart person who is 3rd or 4th in line with the Spurs, Hawks, Rockets. Basically like Paul DePodesta / Jonah Hill from Money Ball. The 2nd best person working for those teams won't take the Sacramento job, because it's not a good job. But the 3rd or 4th best person should take the job because it's a high profile job and if they help make it work here, they could get the same or better job in a better market in 4-5 years. We should be looking with a person that has been trained up in a competent franchise, is very smart, and knows the CBA and the market of the league cold.
Sure we struck out with PDA looking to make that hire. That's on Vivek. He has to try again. And if he keeps failing ... that's on him. But that's the move. Not a guy that's been gone for 2 years, on Maloof auto pilot for 3 years before than, and is a decade removed from any high level results.
Regardless of his leadership skills and how relevant and translatable his post-play career is ... Vlade will eventually figure it out if he has a great eye for talent. And with the limitations on this franchise (Vivek, small market, no revenue sharing), he's going to fail is he doesn't have a great eye for talent. It really boils down to that.
But in the mean time, we need competent staff to help try to keep Cousins (without totally destroying our roster and options when he probably leaves in two years) and to smooth the transition.
We've got a rookie GM with no on-job work experience. We've got a stats guys that also doesn't have a ton of experience working at a high level in a basketball operations job. The most experienced guy is our head of scouting, who is a good dude and hard worker ... but isn't exactly an ace or innovator. The front office isn't staffed well with PDA and it's bare bones if he leaves.
You also have a coach, with no front office experience - who wants to win now at all costs because he's done in 3-5 years. Somebody needs to be in the room talking about what the smart teams are doing ... even if our owner is too stupid and arrogant to listen. Vlade, Bratz, and Karl talking about moves that were made 2 CBAs ago isn't going to cut it.
To me, I wouldn't be looking to get Petrie out of mothballs so he can brush up on the 2011 CBA and try to mold his 2002 success to 2016 as well as plan for the post-Cousins version of this franchise that he won't be a part of.
I would look to hire a young smart person who is 3rd or 4th in line with the Spurs, Hawks, Rockets. Basically like Paul DePodesta / Jonah Hill from Money Ball. The 2nd best person working for those teams won't take the Sacramento job, because it's not a good job. But the 3rd or 4th best person should take the job because it's a high profile job and if they help make it work here, they could get the same or better job in a better market in 4-5 years. We should be looking with a person that has been trained up in a competent franchise, is very smart, and knows the CBA and the market of the league cold.
Sure we struck out with PDA looking to make that hire. That's on Vivek. He has to try again. And if he keeps failing ... that's on him. But that's the move. Not a guy that's been gone for 2 years, on Maloof auto pilot for 3 years before than, and is a decade removed from any high level results.
Some of us didn't hate Petrie at all. Always liked him and his work. I'd welcome him back any time in any role. Just for the record of course.
Does this extend to the last couple of years in his tenure?
Darth Divac
Bench
Considering tens of millions in salary were jettisoned, I'd say it's a fair bet that he got maloofed.
He's the owner of my soccer team and a twitter nightmare.Ha! That's nothing compared to Gregoire Matimi or Julia Pringlesworth!
er...Merritt who???
http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2014/10/portland_timbers_owner_merritt_3.html
He usually deletes his tweets so you need to use tweet bunker or another service to find his flip outs. The other day in response to a fan protest he made some comment about "Tell these Einsteins you can't fire the owner".
He's also Hank Paulson's son and basically daddy bought him a soccer club but daddy didn't give him a billion dollars to run it, hence he is downright Maloofian in his moneyball tactics while the rest of the league has gone on a spending spree.
Ouch. James Ham says D'Alessandro has burned every bridge in the organization and no one will shed any tears if he packs up and leaves.
http://cowbellkingdom.podbean.com/e/cowbell-kingdom-podcast-ep-201-the-pete-dalessandro-situation/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed: CowbellKingdom (Cowbell Kingdom Podcast)
Also (and I've never heard this before) it comes up that Malone didn't push for the Landry signing. That he liked Malone in GS but that he didn't push for it in any way and the signing was Pete's. That was one I always pinned on Malone.
http://cowbellkingdom.podbean.com/e/cowbell-kingdom-podcast-ep-201-the-pete-dalessandro-situation/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed: CowbellKingdom (Cowbell Kingdom Podcast)
Also (and I've never heard this before) it comes up that Malone didn't push for the Landry signing. That he liked Malone in GS but that he didn't push for it in any way and the signing was Pete's. That was one I always pinned on Malone.
Hardly. All it takes is a bit of common sense. Vivek isn't going to bring back Malone, for the simple reason it would only serve as a constant reminder of the mistakes that were made in how he was handled. People can talk about these kinds of things on forums all day long but it just doesn't happen in real life.
It's well-reasoned and logical supposition, and my semi-educated opinion based on observations of life and the NBA for over 50 years.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
buffoon.
ockingsfan
Starter
Mully is trying to leak this info to make the Kings look bad again.
I still think that PDA would not give up his GM post for a AD job.
You have to look at the source and who is leaking this info. Obviously, Mully wants his buddy in Maryland with him.
Larry David
Starter
I think you can excuse some of Petrie's last 3 years based upon the Maloofs, every trade must bring in case and be at least revenue neutral. (Not the non-Jimmer picks and brutal Hickson trade.)
But, I think folks forget how bad Petrie was at cap management and paying people correctly as we tried to stay relevant from 2006 to 2009. Mikki Moore mid-level, Bonzi Wells 37 million over 5 years offer (thank god he passed), giving Shareef 5 years after a failed physical, overvaluing Kenny Thomas' value as the best of the moveable pieces. He wasn't very good for a while before the Maloofs started to get cheap in 2009.
But, I think folks forget how bad Petrie was at cap management and paying people correctly as we tried to stay relevant from 2006 to 2009. Mikki Moore mid-level, Bonzi Wells 37 million over 5 years offer (thank god he passed), giving Shareef 5 years after a failed physical, overvaluing Kenny Thomas' value as the best of the moveable pieces. He wasn't very good for a while before the Maloofs started to get cheap in 2009.
I think you're missing a point.
During the time Mullin was here, leaks were the order of the day - and PDA did his share. I strongly believe this is a concerted effort by Mullin (most likely with the full approval of PDA) to get Pete to St. John's. And I wouldn't be quite so quick to accept the idea that being an athletic director at a good university is a big step down.
PDA may see the handwriting on the wall a lot more clearly and realize his days here are numbered. His choice becomes one of waiting to be laid off or accepting the St. John's job and spinning it in his favor. I suspect, should those be the choices, Pete will be heading back East.
Larry David
Starter
First, you raise a good point, St. Johns doesn't have the budget that Maryland does, and PDA doesn't have college AD experience, so that figure is probably high for PDA to start.
But, PDA is headed to a pay cut no matter what he does. When his contract runs out, he's not going to make GM money any more. He's going to earn lower front office money which may not be that far off from what he'd be earning at St. Johns as the AD. Plus, at most colleges, if you come in and things go well you can earn a lucrative raise and extension which most colleges can't afford to eat. Over 5 or 6 years, the pay is probably close, with less hours, and more perks.
If he's willing to bet on Mully, it's a steep drop in pay for a couple of years for perhaps a decade of really good pay, with less stress, and not having the leakiest organization in sports throw your name in the mud for another 12 months which further damages his ability to get a good college job or a support role for an NBA team.
I'd tend to agree. D'Alessandro's contract is up after next season and it certainly sounds likely he wouldn't be renewed. If that's the case wouldn't a multi year deal from his alma mater have considerable appeal even if it's a salary cut in the near term?
Sure sounds like with the Kings he went from being the guy in charge to just another guy in the crowd.
Of course we're all assuming St Johns would WANT him as their A.D.
You got it wrong: Vivek was advised by GS guys to bring Landry. What Pete's apparently tried to pin on Vivek is Stauskas, and video certainly helped his case, but according to Ham it was 100% Pete, and that was the reason Shareef was so unceremoniously discharged. There were quite a few other nuggets:
- Mclemore was Petrie/Malone pick
- PDA and Mully were interviewing for lead assistant last summer. Malone found out, showed them contract, that put him solely in charge of his staff, and pointed at Corbin. PDA insisted that Corbin coached Summer League instead of Jent, who was training team in Las Vegas already, but at the same time Corbin didn't receive contract for a while and even coached his first game without pay. PDA was most likely making a power play - look, what I can do!
- Pete and Mullin actually convinced Vivek at first, that Corbin was going to do better. That's why Vivek didn't want to go after Karl at first. And Mullin was never aiming at the coaching job, but was also not a supporter of Karl
- Pete will stay only if they won't find a good cap guy (will certainly leave in 2016), and right now he's cut off from any personnel discussions
Iced Espresso
Starter
IfAt1st
Starter
Everyone needs to sit through and listen to the entire 90 minutes (minus the first few).
They go over so many aspects of the last 2 years, it's vital info.
Here's the most important parts I heard:
* It's been ugly and unfortunate for the many people who lost their jobs.
* (Trading Tyreke for Grevious Vasquez) was the beginning of the crusade against Isaiah Thomas by PDA, because IT was kicking Grevious ass up and down the court every day in practice.
* Luc Bhah a Moute was known in NBA circles as not wanting to play, just wanted to cash a paycheck and wear expensive suits?!
* PDA had no answer last summer when asked "Are you going to pick up some 3pt shooters this summer, since you need them so badly, having given up your best 4?" He didn't seem to understand the need.
* Word from Reno : "Royce White's not a good basketball player." He's not a real NBA player - he's a fictional player.
Malone was like "I want to win games." They were like "No, we're going to keep waiving players and not give you anybody you can win with."
* With a PDA FO, you get this - They're so wired into the major media channels, that the narrative that's being pushed is whatever they want the public to perceive.
* Shareef - Have you ever heard about what happened to him, any press release, etc? He was unceremoniously shown the door, like so many others (Malone, Corbin).
We see what goes on with this FO - they say things like "We love him. Love his family, he's a great guy, etc." yet they actually hate him.
* Then we get to IT being shown the door. This is a guy who shows up at city council meetings, who was one of the few honest people in the room - one of the good guys.
IT was a Mike Malone guy - He was his floor general. They got rid of IT partially because of their fighting with Malone.
Ham went to every single player in the lockerroom and asked them if IT was a bad guy, and everyone said to a man "He's a quiet guy off the court - everyone liked him, never caused waves."
* The leaks etc was all just the FO's Exit Strategy - PR moves to start spoiling the barrel, to allow the fanbase to distance themselves from a player that may be moved soon.
(My note - this is why we all need to be very aware when the FO starts throwing damaging words out there about a player we think the Kings should keep - don't buy the lies so easily!)
* When you can sit with fans and tell bald-faced lies - wow! That's pretty rare in the league - you don't see that very often to this level.
* Kurt Rambis was brought in and interviewed to be the lead assistant, and Mike Malone did not know! They only buckled because it was part of Malone's contract that he chooses his staff. He says it's Ty Corbin, they say well, he has to coach Summer League.
Ty Corbin wasn't under contract even after the 3rd day of Summer League!? They literally sat there in response to that question and said, "Yeah, we need to get around to inking that contract with Ty." Unbelievable!
They didn't sign Omri until later in the season just to pro-rate the days his below-minimum contract would accrue?!
* So everyone knows - Malone was not insubordinate.
PDA and Malone had no working relationship. PDA had already made his approach clear by taking away all of his players, choosing his coaches for him, etc.
* Who actually pulled the trigger on Malone's firing?
PDA felt his job was on the line, and with Vivek being a demanding boss, PDA and Mullin went after Malone to protect themselves.
* Nobody went to Vivek and said "Look, Malone has the respect of everyone in the lockerroom, and if you get rid of him, they will be crushed. It will not work." Nobody in the FO understood that. Nobody got it.
* Why didn't they immediately hire Karl?
Because Vivek was convinced that Corbin could succeed as a coach. He also didn't want to pay since he thought Ty could coach the team to wins. Pete vs Vivek vs Mullin ("I'm not sticking around if Karl's the coach").
* Big name minority owners are looking to sell their shares in the team because of what was going on!
* PDA actually apologized about bringing DMC's name (and throwing it into the mud) into the whole coaching decision fiasco in an aside during Karl's signing (which Vivek and Mullin didn't even show up for).
* Someone was trying to negotiate with Karl about salary by using Demarcus f-ing Cousins' name and reputation, your franchise player?! Really?!
(Earlier on in the podcast, I had written "They stopped talking about what they were going to say about Demarcus' reaction and question about hiring Karl! The media KNOWS the exact situation with Karl and Demarcus, but are afraid to say it." but maybe this is where they discussed some of it - I still think there's a lot more they know here they aren't telling)
* You don't know how many players in the league have talked with them about the dysfunction in the Kings. How they treat their personnel. Noone knows who's making the decisions with the Kings.
* They imply that Stauskas was not Vivek's pick - it was PDA's. You hear it was Vivek's because media people are going to soon have their leak source dried up, and won't like it so they'll make up things about the owner.
* 3 weeks from the end of the season, we all knew PDA was being ready to be given his walking papers. Then we hear he will be retained as a contracts guy, providing help, etc.
Now, he will be leaving to join his crony at St. John's?
*
* 90 to 95% of the information that has come out of the Kings organization the past 2 years is complete BS. Complete fabrications that we knew without a doubt was false.
They lie to reporter's faces, and it's not fun, it's incredibly frustrating.
And we as media members likely only know 15% of the atrocities this organization committed - they can only imagine how bad it was to actually live through it personally.
* Hold your media accountable. Demand more of your media. (He's implying that they know more than they are reporting on, and allowing the FO distort the truth way too much. This info is not that hard to uncover.)
They actually threw down a gauntlet, pointing out that however this podcast is retweeted and reported on will let you know what side and loyalties that person falls on.
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randymoss1881
Starter
My jaw just hit the floor how could it be worse than I thought. And players around the league know this damn we are leaving FA with Afflalo.
Larry David
Starter
I'm confused. PDA is the root of our problems, made us a total joke, can't be trusted, is on the outside of basketball decisions, is pretty much gone when his contract expires in a year ... but until he started sniffing around the St. Johns job we were willing to keep him around as our cap-ologist / to help Vlade / because Karl asked Vivek to keep him on in a demoted role?
This smells a lot like the longstanding Kings / Sac Media move of throwing all the blame on somebody before they are pushed out the door. Don't get me wrong, PDA seems like a problem, jerk, and weasel ... but our team is a joke and mess from top to bottom. Seems like more of the same.
Between keeping PDA on because we are paying him, the Caspi delay, and Karl haggling ... we still seem to be cheap. Maybe that's all on PDA, but my guess is that money is tight with the new owners.
It's clear the local media knows what's going on and doesn't say crap / doesn't want the fans to tune out on this team both to protect scoops and their own bottom lines. I love that these two stepped up to the mic ... but they've know better for a long long time and never put what's really going on out this clear and brutally honest. I'm glad they are moving the conversation forward, but they can't get too sanctimonious about others holding back, when they've been doing a lot of the same for the past 18 months.
This smells a lot like the longstanding Kings / Sac Media move of throwing all the blame on somebody before they are pushed out the door. Don't get me wrong, PDA seems like a problem, jerk, and weasel ... but our team is a joke and mess from top to bottom. Seems like more of the same.
Between keeping PDA on because we are paying him, the Caspi delay, and Karl haggling ... we still seem to be cheap. Maybe that's all on PDA, but my guess is that money is tight with the new owners.
It's clear the local media knows what's going on and doesn't say crap / doesn't want the fans to tune out on this team both to protect scoops and their own bottom lines. I love that these two stepped up to the mic ... but they've know better for a long long time and never put what's really going on out this clear and brutally honest. I'm glad they are moving the conversation forward, but they can't get too sanctimonious about others holding back, when they've been doing a lot of the same for the past 18 months.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Will everybody, including Ham, just ****ing shush already!!
Gerbil could be interviewing for the St. John's job as we speak. Its the internet age where half the employers invade your privacy via the internet before they even hire you. And NOW we want to put up stories about what a bridge burning media leaking story twisting political rodent PDA is?
SHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Until its a done deal.
Until he is hired, this should be your template for all correspondence that might reach St. John's ears:
Dear St. John's Board of Trustees:
We love PDA. We really do. All of us. He's an amazing individual. He rescues kittens from trees. He would walk on water to rescue little old ladies from floods, if we ever had a flood in Sacramento. In fact are you still associated with the Roman Catholic Church? Because I think canonization could well be in PDA's future. Saint Pete is taken, but Saint PDA has a ring. Or possibly in a few decades you could call yourself St. John and Pete's. Oh, and the children! He is amazing with children. I cannot imagine anyone better qualified to lead an academic university's athletic department and teach the youth of America sterling values. Intelligence, integrity, infamy, Pete has it all.
You guys are lucky bastards.
Sincerely,
Severely bummed you are stealing our hero
Gerbil could be interviewing for the St. John's job as we speak. Its the internet age where half the employers invade your privacy via the internet before they even hire you. And NOW we want to put up stories about what a bridge burning media leaking story twisting political rodent PDA is?
SHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Until its a done deal.
Until he is hired, this should be your template for all correspondence that might reach St. John's ears:
Dear St. John's Board of Trustees:
We love PDA. We really do. All of us. He's an amazing individual. He rescues kittens from trees. He would walk on water to rescue little old ladies from floods, if we ever had a flood in Sacramento. In fact are you still associated with the Roman Catholic Church? Because I think canonization could well be in PDA's future. Saint Pete is taken, but Saint PDA has a ring. Or possibly in a few decades you could call yourself St. John and Pete's. Oh, and the children! He is amazing with children. I cannot imagine anyone better qualified to lead an academic university's athletic department and teach the youth of America sterling values. Intelligence, integrity, infamy, Pete has it all.
You guys are lucky bastards.
Sincerely,
Severely bummed you are stealing our hero
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Letsgokings13
Starter
Disgusting PDA, disgusting.
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