PDA on the way out??

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[Demarcus] demands and craves trust. Give it to him, and he'll run through walls for you to prove it was deserved. Don't, and you've lost him. Betray him, and he'll flat turn on you. Firing Malone was idiotic precisely because he had found a combo father figure friend he trusted. That's how you get him to buy in. He values loyalty above all else. Not drama. Not speculation. I'm your guy. End of subject.
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He's not really a professional, and that is to our advantage. If he were any of the modern generation of "my brand, my brand" egomaniacs, he would already have calculated we were holding back his own brand/fame/money. But Cuz is kinda a kid. He wants it to be like college. He wants a father figure/friend as a coach, a supportive front office, and loyal fans.
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It's possible that a team could offer a Godfather deal for Boogie where I'd say, "yeah, you have to take that" but I'm not sure what that would be. Randle, the #2 pick and salary cap filler isn't that deal though.

In fact, unless it was packaged with a hell of a player there's no pick in this draft that I'd be interested in outside of #1 to take Towns. Say Wiggins, Dieng, #1 pick and Budinger (ender to make salaries match) then at least you think about it.

Even then I think you'd also have to deal Gay and go into full rebuild mode.

Considering how well the starting five was playing to start last season I think you have to try to revamp the bench and make small changes (and have a successful draft) and let this group move forward rather than blowing things up to rebuild for the millionth time.

Obviously a different story if Cuz starts trying to force his way out or even if he's told management privately that he's done in Sacramento. But barring that I don't see a surefire deal that would net equal value for the best center in the NBA who will only be 25 when next season starts.
 
^ I think this next season is the last season that we will be able to entertain Cuz. I think one more failing year and he will ask to leave. We have to, bare minimum, be in the playoff hunt come March/April, but to really get him to stay and feel safe he won't ask to leave, we have to make the playoffs. This season is going to be put up or shut up from the King's organization. We are fighting for much more than just respectability. We need to keep our star, and we have sucked for so long that it's going to have to be one hell of a turnaround.
 
Chupacabra said:
Can we stop talking about trading Cousins? The FO just said that Cousins wont be traded. Cousins said he doesnt want to leave. So then, what gives people? Shut up already.
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People have a right to say what they like, especially on a forum. This is the NBA. This is a business where somebody's word or statement means a little more than next to something. Look no further than our own Sacramento Kings, masters of words and sucking, while stabbing coaches and players in the back repeatedly.

Cousins asking to leave is a legitimate worry. We may not want to trade him, but scenarios exist where it can be forced upon us.
 
Dave, I give you props for the discourse here, a consistent approach and good intent. Most wouldn't have the balls or brains to list out that approach. You know what you are and own it.

I do take issue with steps 3 and 4. I'll try not to belabor the point with you too much because we won't agree but I thought before the relocation saga you were an optimist with a fan's approach but generally called balls and strikes through that lense. Then you did 2 years of needed and tremendous advocacy radio (Thank you for that). I personally feel like part of you is still campaign mode to protect what you sacrificed so much to keep. But that's my two cents and I may be wrong.

I think you can still play the role you'd like to serve by just being optimistic and honest while not weeding out some negative issues that fans are aware of by applying a standard that doesn't apply to good news.

I grew up with Tim Roye and Grant (yes Grant) being pretty honest and frank about the problems, issues and limitations of bad Kings teams while reasonably explaining what was good and how it could get better. That's not radically different from your approach but Imo the advocate the good news and knock down the bad approach is pervasive in this market (and many others). Too often the logic used to talk around the problematic issues seems like spin that the host knows isn't the probable outcome.

If you were the only guy standing on the fan / advocate corner, it would be a non issue. But when it is the norm for the market and bookends the main coverage of the dominant media station that's an issue to me and some casual Kings fans (to the extent they still exist)

Thanks for your work which is in fact great and your patience with the ramblings of frustrated fans.
 
Forever J Ross has played it the same. He's going to see the glass half full but he's not going to sell you a load of bunk. Whereas Grant has been a zealous advocate for 15 years.

As recently as 5-7 years ago Grant was the exception. While most media has changed, I think KHTK and the Bee got accustomed to protecting fans from the issues and reports about the Maloofs finances and the fact that a relocation application was coming for years. Those big bads have passed. I think when issue arise we can reasonably say this isn't good, here is how this is likely to play out, this is how it can reasonably get better a little more often.
 
Larry David said:
Dave, I give you props for the discourse here, a consistent approach and good intent. Most wouldn't have the balls or brains to list out that approach. You know what you are and own it.

I do take issue with steps 3 and 4. I'll try not to belabor the point with you too much because we won't agree but I thought before the relocation saga you were an optimist with a fan's approach but generally called balls and strikes through that lense. Then you did 2 years of needed and tremendous advocacy radio (Thank you for that). I personally feel like part of you is still campaign mode to protect what you sacrificed so much to keep. But that's my two cents and I may be wrong.

I think you can still play the role you'd like to serve by just being optimistic and honest while not weeding out some negative issues that fans are aware of by applying a standard that doesn't apply to good news.

I grew up with Tim Roye and Grant (yes Grant) being pretty honest and frank about the problems, issues and limitations of bad Kings teams while reasonably explaining what was good and how it could get better. That's not radically different from your approach but Imo the advocate the good news and knock down the bad approach is pervasive in this market (and many others). Too often the logic used to talk around the problematic issues seems like spin that the host knows isn't the probable outcome.

If you were the only guy standing on the fan / advocate corner, it would be a non issue. But when it is the norm for the market and bookends the main coverage of the dominant media station that's an issue to me and some casual Kings fans (to the extent they still exist)

Thanks for your work which is in fact great and your patience with the ramblings of frustrated fans.
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Thank you.

I guess my only question would be this:

When you look back at how I cover the Kings, do you honestly take me as a guy who won't kill this team when I feel it necessary? I've been accused of many things, THAT is one that doesn't often pop up. In fact, I get more responses saying I've been too hard on them than the other way around.

I guess that means there's a balance.
 
bajaden said:
I listened to the podcast earlier. For those that don't know, it's 90 minutes long, but worth the listen. If you didn't like PDA before, you'll really hate him after listening to it. The stuff about the hiring of Corbin, and how they tried to hire Rambis as his lead assistant without even telling him, and then how PDA dragged his feet on Corbin's contract. Just amazing stuff. I think Hamm summed it up when he said something along the lines of, if PDA and Malone happened into each other walking down the street, there would probably be a fist fight, and that Malone would try and throw a bench at him. When you listen to all the events in chronilogical order, which is how they presented it, it's amazing that PDA is still with the team.
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This is why I said it was a JOKE that Vlade hadn't fired his A** on DAY ONE! To keep this guy on is a terrible message to send.
 
carmichaeldave said:
I guarantee you any media person worth their salt read the above and probably threw up in their mouth. But that's how I operate when it comes to the Kings. I'd rather keep the relationships and access I have, then get a few extra listeners/web hits and burn someone. That's me.

But what I never have done, and never will do, is make up news or feed an agenda. Nope. Ain't a show pony. Will never, ever happen. And if I have any doubts (which I sometimes do), I don't touch it.
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In general, I agree with what Brick posted. I think it helps no one to even entertain discussions of fielding offers for Cuz, especially this day and age where a guy like Cuz just has to log onto twitter, or one of his friends will, and he sees it. There's just no benefit to having media contacts close to our organization publicly discussing the possibility of trading our franchise player, especially when our organization has done little to help Cuz in his first five NBA seasons. He, as has other players on the Kings, and us fans, have put up with a lot of BS. Through it all he's busted his ass, focused on maturing and made clear he's extremely loyal and wants to put the Kings back on the NBA map. What's he gotten in return? Our GM dragging his name through the mud and speculation that we might entertain trading him for this poor package or that poor package. You simply don't do that with HOF caliber players in a small market when they've publicly stated they want to be here. We know how rare that is, outside Webber it's never happened in Sac. When you understand the risk our market faces, it really makes no sense to play with fire. We're not LA or NY where we can just hope to attract a replacement. We'd be draft dependent and it could take years, over a decade.

At the same time, as much as you've come up in this conversation I don't think you're nearly as big a problem as other Sac based media. You come on here and debate, I've seen you on STR debating. You debate on twitter. You're more than open to dialogue and explaining yourself when others disagree. When you look at our other Sac based media, that's absent. When looking at the accusations in the podcast, what it appears happens is much of our media is fed their talking points/leaks, they then print them and that's it, it's signed, sealed and delivered for public consumption. There is no explanation, no dialogue. When many of these media members have social media accounts, you have to question why they're so afraid to debate, in comparison to the approach you take. They come across as a PR front/arm of the Kings. So while I do disagree with you at times, I also want to give you a fair amount of credit for keeping an open channel of dialogue and facing the fire so to speak on forums/twitter, which no one else is willing to do.
 
IfAt1st said:
This is a chilling post.

If it is too late to keep DMC here...... then the Kings will have wasted the entire last TEN YEARS, and at least 5 more.
Abject humiliation and failure, and received nothing for it but a couple prospects.
They will have wasted Tyreke, IT, and DMC and have peanuts to show for it (well, + Rudy).
They will be starting over basically from scratch - into a fanbase that has already had enough failure. There is no way in hell there will be enough success to grow the fanbase for over 5 years more. They will need new minority owners, and the pressure from the community (because of the high costs for the new arena) will become deafening.

There is no other option than to make this work - they simply have no choice but to win with Cousins.
I don't see this realization being demonstrated by the FO, or the media.
They seem to think there is a successful way forward without Cousins.
I beg to differ. (barring conspiracy theories)
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There may be no other option than to try to make it work. You assign God-like ability to one of the worst managed organizations in sports if you believe a simple choice to make it happen will in fact make it so.
 
I'm sure somebody has done the research. How many games did we have Collison, Gay, and Cousins for entire game. What was our record in those games?
 
Gilles said:
8-4 under Malone
5-11 under Corbin
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That's a total of 13 - 15 or .467 which is much better than our season average and certainly lends credence to Collison's pitch - keep the core together. (Despite Collison's pitch, I still want Ben replaced in the starting lineup by a journeyman starter who can handle the ball and play basketball.)
 
carmichaeldave said:
Thank you.

I guess my only question would be this:

When you look back at how I cover the Kings, do you honestly take me as a guy who won't kill this team when I feel it necessary? I've been accused of many things, THAT is one that doesn't often pop up. In fact, I get more responses saying I've been too hard on them than the other way around.

I guess that means there's a balance.
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No, I don't think you that far off of where you used to be.

I think that the franchise is still getting kid glove treatment from most of the local media regarding things they aren't doing well and/or issues they have. So your extra say 10% of advocacy wouldn't be an issue in 2010, but now that NOBODY is itching / willing to say when the emperor has no clothes; Grant is what Grant is; and Aileen seems to be pushing hard to get into the good graces / info from new ownership and Karl ... a lot of moderate and casual fans are looking for some Kings coverage that mirrors the objectivity and candor of the out of town subjects on the show and paper. So it has much more to do with the field and some expectation of a market correction regarding credibility and candor in a post-Maloof world. But, I do think you guard and spin more for the team than you used to (which does make sense because you've got ties and the team / city is still in a fragile spot)

Regarding your feedback, I would submit to you that the die hard fans that are killing you on social media (a small but loud group) when you objectively point out the bad will keep listening and be huge Kings fans no matter what you say ... but the casual fan that has tuned out during the Kings struggles and really feel that KHTK has a credibility gap after the station had to carry the Maloofs water for many years generally isn't going to reach out to contact you on twitter if he or she believes the coverage has been way too sunny for franchise that wins .333 of it's games year in and year out. Most of the folks in my office / Kings fans I know are in that camp.

Who knows? I probably just miss a style of media that's gone away over the past 6-7 years. The media that feeds red meat to the base (not saying you) tends to do much better than those that feel compelled to also make sure consumers eat their vegetables and brush their teeth.

That's all the cents I have. Sincerely, thanks for your work and everything you've done.
 
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So out of the 53 losses 19 of them came with a complete starting lineup. 34 losses came with one of big 3 missing. Using the .467 wining % matrix a possibility of 16 more wins. 45-37 record and that counting the 5-11 put up by Corbin and a distracted team. That was 8th seed. Take away the distractions and injuries you have a possible 50 win team.

None of this means anything because you are gonna have injuries. Just Sunday idle time. Now if you have a complete roster that can make up for injuries from time to time like a SG you can count on or a backup PG that is a vet and 1 big man that can pull some weight. Then you got something.
 
Larry David said:
No, I don't think you that far off of where you used to be.

I think that the franchise is still getting kid glove treatment from most of the local media regarding things they aren't doing well and/or issues they have. So your extra say 10% of advocacy wouldn't be an issue in 2010, but now that NOBODY is itching / willing to say when the emperor has no clothes; Grant is what Grant is; and Aileen seems to be pushing hard to get into the good graces / info from new ownership and Karl ... a lot of moderate and casual fans are looking for some Kings coverage that mirrors the objectivity and candor of the out of town subjects on the show and paper. So it has much more to do with the field and some expectation of a market correction regarding credibility and candor in a post-Maloof world. But, I do think you guard and spin more for the team than you used to (which does make sense because you've got ties and the team / city is still in a fragile spot)

Regarding your feedback, I would submit to you that the die hard fans that are killing you on social media (a small but loud group) when you objectively point out the bad will keep listening and be huge Kings fans no matter what you say ... but the casual fan that has tuned out during the Kings struggles and really feel that KHTK has a credibility gap after the station had to carry the Maloofs water for many years generally isn't going to reach out to contact you on twitter if he or she believes the coverage has been way too sunny for franchise that wins .333 of it's games year in and year out. Most of the folks in my office / Kings fans I know are in that camp.

Who knows? I probably just miss a style of media that's gone away over the past 6-7 years. The media that feeds red meat to the base (not saying you) tends to do much better than those that feel compelled to also make sure consumers eat their vegetables and brush their teeth.

That's all the cents I have. Sincerely, thanks for your work and everything you've done.
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How do you know what "they" are not doing well NOW? Why shouldn't local media use some "kid gloves" NOW out of respect for the significant changes already made? Personally, I don't see cause for an indictment f local media NOW. The podcast is mostly water over the dam except for PDA and I trust the folks on board to deal with that in a constructive manner. Just my view NOW.
 
pshn80 said:
How do you know what "they" are not doing well NOW? Why shouldn't local media use some "kid gloves" NOW out of respect for the significant changes already made? Personally, I don't see cause for an indictment f local media NOW. The podcast is mostly water over the dam except for PDA and I trust the folks on board to deal with that in a constructive manner. Just my view NOW.
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Pshn, I just don't understand this line of thinking. It's as if history doesn't matter, that somehow we should just ignore it and live
each micro-second without any memory whatsoever. When does history matter?
 
If Karl makes us keep gerbil, then I'm anti-Karl. It is so obviously bad for morale to have weasel sticking around for even 5 more minutes. Lets just all move on and live happily ever after, starting... right... now.

And if Karl wants to renege on his contract and split town over the PDA issue then eff him - it means he is not putting the team first anyway.
 
bajaden said:
I think Hamm summed it up when he said something along the lines of, if PDA and Malone happened into each other walking down the street, there would probably be a fist fight, and that Malone would try and throw a bench at him. When you listen to all the events in chronilogical order, which is how they presented it, it's amazing that PDA is still with the team.
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Welp, that explains why PDA never gave Malone a bench.
 
Trying to think at the time to Malone's possible thoughts, we were getting the run around with Thomas, Ray had to play 48 mpg for a bit, he was just thankful a guard who was alive was coming into camp most likely. And supposedly the kid could shoot too.
 
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