Paul Westphal is a total nut job!

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ok... this game was lost with the Jimmer/thomas backcourt being totally destroyed on offense and defense... and Westfail played this lineup into such a hole that by the time the regulars got back in it was a desperate situation.

on defense..the other 3 guys on the floor had to help them out so much it was total chaos on the defensive end... I CANT BELIEVE HOW STUPID IT IS TO HAVE JIMMER AND THOMAS GUARDING GUYS THAT TOWER OVER THEM AT THE SAME TIME!!! also Jimmer just looks bad on defense in general.

on offense Jimmer is clearly not as ready as we thought... he looks completely uncomfortable handling the ball as a PG and is way too hesitant right now. it was obvious this wasn't his night to break out. Thomas as big as his heart is was not a good fit against this POR team and wasn't having ANY success either... picked up 2 charges but that was seriously all he could do to stop anyone! these to guys were awful and yes... so were our starters... BUT!

this backcourt is what opened up the huge deficit that ended up being the end of us...

we had a bad game.... but what was most disturbing was Westfail's stubbornness to adjust to the obvious... or inability to see the obvious in that this was REALLY, REALLY REALLY, not working... and let it ride for as long as he did...

his lineups are so stupid!!! when will we finally get a coach that can SEE whats happening on the court!?
 
yeah he stuck with the jimmer, thomas backourt way too long. Jimmer has no business trying to gaurd Batum. Thomas has to learn he cant finish at the rim against NBA defenses on most nights, needs to develop a floater like Barea. I don't know why instead of playing Garcia or Greene he goes with midget backourts. Whats wrong with a 2nd unit of Jimmer/Thomas, Garcia, Outlaw/Greene, Hickson, Thompson. Theres no need to to play midget backourts, especially on the road against a tough aggresive team like the Blazers.

Am i the only one wondering why Garcia is completely out of the rotation? Hes a good defender that is money from 3, why play outlaw who cant shoot a lick right now. For christ sakes he started for us last year alot of nights. Also Greene cant be that bad, the guy showed flashes of brilliance before, now hes a towel waver.
 
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I question Westphal's mental capabilities.. and whether or not he has the ability to coach an AAU game, let alone an NBA game.
 
kingsboi said:
Are we in store for another LONG season of this?
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I hope not. Westphal tightened up the rotation and put more faith in his starters last year but that took all the way until the last 20 games or so. I hope this doesn't go on this long this time. Completely crushed any rhythm the starters had tonight just a few minutes into the game.
 
Couldn't agree more! WTF is he doing? At one point, after fouling Batum for the 2nd time, Jimmer looked over at the bench and said some stuff. He was probably wondering the same thing we all were: "WHY THE F AM I GUARDING A GUY A FOOT TALLER THAN ME?" PW just looked over at him with no answer. It makes NO SENSE. Like other posters have said, you have plenty of length to bring in and match up against the Blazers. Jimmer and IT weren't very good on offense either so there was no point in having them in the game.
 
I mean the massive mistake was playing Isiah Thomas. Jimmer should have played PG and Isiah should never have played. That's what happened in the first half and Jimmer actually played pretty good D when he guarded guys who were under 6'5 and not someone 7 inches taller than him.

Also worth noting is that Jimmer lead the kings in +/- with only -1
 
SMALL FORWARD is weak spot

Salmons is not doing good, I remembered him defending better. I guess back then we were THAT BAD. Now he is an okay defender that is killing us nightly.

his 5-14 is pathetic, but if you compliment it with average to below average d on kobe, and allowing metta to take over the game last night, and wallace/batum to take it over tonight????

you guys are right Westfail has made some pretty damn horrible decisions, like letting jimmer guard batum, why not put honeycutt on wallace or batum????
 
So...here's hoping Adelman doesn't last with the T-Wolves.

Westphal needs to learn that you don't HAVE to play everyone. In fact, if someone is at a terrible size disadvantage, i.e. Thomas who is 5'9, don't put them with guys a foot taller than him and have him drive to the rim. He'll get rejected every time.

Also, I agree. Honeycutt - In. Wallace and Batum were having their way with us.

See, maybe I'm being silly. But in comparison with the old Kings, I feel like the players we have could fill certain roles. I.E. Thornton - Peja who can actually drive to the basket and be clutch. Tyreke, a Webber who can hit the distance 3 (more accurately), DeMarcus, the up-and-coming Vlade who can create and make plays happen, IF he is in the post, not shooting from a distance. Maybe Jimmer, a Bibby-type who can create and shoot from range, provided he shakes off the rookie nerves. And so on. We have pieces. But sometimes I feel like they're never played the right way. It's like a melee free for all.
 
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Outlaw was on Artest for consecutive positions after getting annihilated time after time and tonight the same happened with Salmons on Wallace and Jimmer on Batum. Guys like Donte and Honeycutt have the body to matchup well with these kinds of guys.

Thomas and Jimmer, both rookies, should not be on the floor at the same time. Both are undersized and lack physicality and experience. I like how they each handle the ball for rookies, but they should not be on the court with the Kings down 7-9 in the 3rd with Outlaw, Hayes, and JJ. That's asking for trouble.

Ideally, you would want one or two of our "big 3" on the court at all times unless it's garbage time.
 
I think someone from the fans should start yelling during the game and remind Westphal his small ball idea won't work. It's time to ridicule this coach (with placards or whatever) whenever he is experimenting on something that obviously will not work.:mad:
 
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but this was always a point of contention for me.

Why the hell did we dump Adelman in the first place? He's proved he's a winning coach (>0.500) with multiple teams, and he was doing so with the Kings under tough conditions, when people were cycling in and out, and the changing of the guard was taking place. Though with him, we always at least made the playoffs.

And from what I've read, excellent and coaching, creating plays, and making sure the players know what is expected of them. And players respected him.

Dumped him without any idea of who would really coach. We just wanted "change".

Even the Portland TB announcers mentioned how Westphal looks more and more like Adelman...but I have to add - with none of the coaching savvy.

Maloofs should get on their knees and grovel to get him back. I'm not saying he would automatically turn the team into a title contender...

But you'd at least see successful screens, pick and rolls, and set plays. and ball movement.
 
First off, I thought Jimmer played decent to good defense until he was asked to guard Batum. At that point he didn't have a prayer, and Portland knew that, and kept going to Batum. That wasn't Jimmer's fault, it was Westphal's. To say that Jimmer played bad defense for the whole game just isn't a fair appraisal. Also, anyone that says Jimmer was tenative on offense, just hasn't watched Jimmer play very much. I said when we drafted him that Jimmer will do everything he can in a game to set up his teammates, and thats what he's trying to do. Now all those that wanted to criticize him for being a chucker, are criticizing him for not shooting the ball.

That aside, I don't think anyone can justify leaving both Thomas and Jimmer on the floor with obvious size disavantages. You could see that Jimmer was visably upset having a conversation with Westphal on the side. Batum is not only 6'7"/6'8", he's also an outstanding athlete with a very large wingspan. Its one thing to play a rookie against those that share his postion, but when you start asking a PG that was asked not to play defense in college to guard an experienced, athletic player thats 5 to 6 inches taller than he is, then I have to question your ability to coach a team in the NBA. Thats hardly putting a rookie in a position to succeed.
 
At first I thought Jimmer on Batum was on a bad switch. Just like the other night when we had Thomas guarding Kobe. After a few trips down the court you start to realize that Westphal wanted those matchups. It's insanity. I was yelling "What the f*** are you doing??" at my TV last night watching Jimmer get destroyed by Batum. I wasn't yelling at Jimmer, I was yelling at Westphal for putting him in that position. We have our rookie PG and one of our worst defenders against a tall, quick, lanky and skilled player in Batum who can do a little of everything. If you're going to have a mismatch on the defensive end, then you better make sure as hell that you have just as big a mismatch on the offensive end. Problem is, we didn't. Jimmer is a rookie and Batum was able to shut him down.

If we put Garcia or Donte in there, we go into the 4th quarter down by 5 at most.

We wouldn't have won either way but we could have prevented a blowout loss. It was frustrating watching Jimmer look to the coaches like 'wtf are you doing having me cover this guy?'.
 
TehSwimGuy said:
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but this was always a point of contention for me.

Why the hell did we dump Adelman in the first place? He's proved he's a winning coach (>0.500) with multiple teams, and he was doing so with the Kings under tough conditions, when people were cycling in and out, and the changing of the guard was taking place. Though with him, we always at least made the playoffs.

And from what I've read, excellent and coaching, creating plays, and making sure the players know what is expected of them. And players respected him.

Dumped him without any idea of who would really coach. We just wanted "change".

Even the Portland TB announcers mentioned how Westphal looks more and more like Adelman...but I have to add - with none of the coaching savvy.

Maloofs should get on their knees and grovel to get him back. I'm not saying he would automatically turn the team into a title contender...

But you'd at least see successful screens, pick and rolls, and set plays. and ball movement.
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the birds were whispering in the maloofs ears that defense wins championships. they were going to hire a WNBA coach for christ sakes! the good ol' days of the maloofs with their hands in basketball decisions. :)
 
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Big Cuz 15 said:
the birds were whispering in the maloofs ears that defense wins championships. they were going to hire a WNBA coach for christ sakes! the good ol' days of the maloofs with their hands in basketball decisions. :)
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T_T At least Adelman makes it to the playoffs. The one time in recent history he didn't, last year with the Rockets, they still had a winning record, even with the massive injuries on the team and Yao gone.
 
bajaden said:
First off, I thought Jimmer played decent to good defense until he was asked to guard Batum. At that point he didn't have a prayer, and Portland knew that, and kept going to Batum. That wasn't Jimmer's fault, it was Westphal's. To say that Jimmer played bad defense for the whole game just isn't a fair appraisal. Also, anyone that says Jimmer was tenative on offense, just hasn't watched Jimmer play very much. I said when we drafted him that Jimmer will do everything he can in a game to set up his teammates, and thats what he's trying to do. Now all those that wanted to criticize him for being a chucker, are criticizing him for not shooting the ball.

That aside, I don't think anyone can justify leaving both Thomas and Jimmer on the floor with obvious size disavantages. You could see that Jimmer was visably upset having a conversation with Westphal on the side. Batum is not only 6'7"/6'8", he's also an outstanding athlete with a very large wingspan. Its one thing to play a rookie against those that share his postion, but when you start asking a PG that was asked not to play defense in college to guard an experienced, athletic player thats 5 to 6 inches taller than he is, then I have to question your ability to coach a team in the NBA. Thats hardly putting a rookie in a position to succeed.
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I think Westfail watched Hoosiers after the Laker game. He's trying to break them down so he can build them back up.
 
bajaden said:
First off, I thought Jimmer played decent to good defense until he was asked to guard Batum. At that point he didn't have a prayer, and Portland knew that, and kept going to Batum. That wasn't Jimmer's fault, it was Westphal's. To say that Jimmer played bad defense for the whole game just isn't a fair appraisal. Also, anyone that says Jimmer was tenative on offense, just hasn't watched Jimmer play very much. I said when we drafted him that Jimmer will do everything he can in a game to set up his teammates, and thats what he's trying to do. Now all those that wanted to criticize him for being a chucker, are criticizing him for not shooting the ball.

That aside, I don't think anyone can justify leaving both Thomas and Jimmer on the floor with obvious size disavantages. You could see that Jimmer was visably upset having a conversation with Westphal on the side. Batum is not only 6'7"/6'8", he's also an outstanding athlete with a very large wingspan. Its one thing to play a rookie against those that share his postion, but when you start asking a PG that was asked not to play defense in college to guard an experienced, athletic player thats 5 to 6 inches taller than he is, then I have to question your ability to coach a team in the NBA. Thats hardly putting a rookie in a position to succeed.
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I agree here. Westy did not put Jimmer in a position to succeed. There are a lot of things a coach is responsible for, but one of the most basic, most commonly understood, is putting your players in a position to succeed. That didn't happen last night with Jimmer.

What made the Jimmer/Batum matchup even worse, is having Outlaw at the 4. So not only was Jimmer stuck guarding a sf, but he didn't have a defensive frontline to help out there in the least.

The Thomas/Thorton/Jimmer/Outlaw lineup is ludicrous.
 
sactownfan said:
ok... this game was lost with the Jimmer/thomas backcourt being totally destroyed on offense and defense... and Westfail played this lineup into such a hole that by the time the regulars got back in it was a desperate situation.

on defense..the other 3 guys on the floor had to help them out so much it was total chaos on the defensive end... I CANT BELIEVE HOW STUPID IT IS TO HAVE JIMMER AND THOMAS GUARDING GUYS THAT TOWER OVER THEM AT THE SAME TIME!!! also Jimmer just looks bad on defense in general.

on offense Jimmer is clearly not as ready as we thought... he looks completely uncomfortable handling the ball as a PG and is way too hesitant right now. it was obvious this wasn't his night to break out. Thomas as big as his heart is was not a good fit against this POR team and wasn't having ANY success either... picked up 2 charges but that was seriously all he could do to stop anyone! these to guys were awful and yes... so were our starters... BUT!

this backcourt is what opened up the huge deficit that ended up being the end of us...

we had a bad game.... but what was most disturbing was Westfail's stubbornness to adjust to the obvious... or inability to see the obvious in that this was REALLY, REALLY REALLY, not working... and let it ride for as long as he did...

his lineups are so stupid!!! when will we finally get a coach that can SEE whats happening on the court!?
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They came out and said they wanted a small-ball, uptempo team. This is the result.
 
Who said that though? I've heard it from some of the players but Westphal came out at the beginning of camp saying they were going to use Cousins and Hayes as passers and play more in the half court. They should! When you can drive it, post up, and pass your strength is going to be shot clock management and half court domination. Too much individual talent to be playing junk ball. It's like using 1/10th of their talent. :mad:
 
sactownfan; his lineups are so stupid!!! when will we finally get a coach that can SEE whats happening on the court!?[/QUOTE said:
Westphal SAW what was happening, the threesome of Evans, Thornton, Salmons was not working, in fact was useless, and he did something about it, he put in Fredette and Thomas who at least demonstrated better instincts, better basketball but of course they were out of their league last night as were E, T, and S.

So take your pick, I'm glad I wasn't coaching that bunch last night.

Go on, poster, name a line-up that works.
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pshn80 said:
Westphal SAW what was happening, the threesome of Evans, Thornton, Salmons was not working, in fact was useless, and he did something about it, he put in Fredette and Thomas who at least demonstrated better instincts, better basketball but of course they were out of their league last night as were E, T, and S.

So take your pick, I'm glad I wasn't coaching that bunch last night.

Go on, poster, name a line-up that works.
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I'm going to go Adelman on you. Let us say your stars suck in the first half. What is more likely to happen in the 2nd half, the stars to get their act together or two rookies to perform better? I am obviously of the opinion that you stick with your stars but I remember yelling at Adelman when he refused to try something new. :) I think either method can work but shoving in the rookies smacked of desperation at the least and idiocy at the worst. I have nothing against playing Jimmer or Thomas but please, oh please, leave in Tyreke if only for his defense.

All a shooter needs is to have a couple shots to fall and he can go on a run. Thornton at the least needs to be given the opportunity to get hot unless he actually isn't as good as I think he is - a possibility.
 
Hmm. Well, coaching isn't all about lineups but capitalizing on certain plays that work towards your advantage. The team doesn't have the size to be stagnant on offense. Pick and roll, screens, etc.


Thornton, SG. Salmons/Evans,SF. Cousins, C. Hayes, PF. Fredette/Evans, PG. Or some combination seems pretty solid if they worked the ball around, set up plays for each other. And I mean *really* have set plays for each other.


The lineup is good. But it's worthless if every man is playing 1v1. Even when Webber was playing terrible, and chucking up shots, the Kings still moved the ball around. He just ended up taking shots he shouldn't have. We don't move the ball around, and that's going to kill us the second a team like PTB apply pressure.
 
Glenn said:
I'm going to go Adelman on you. Let us say your stars suck in the first half. What is more likely to happen in the 2nd half, the stars to get their act together or two rookies to perform better? I am obviously of the opinion that you stick with your stars but I remember yelling at Adelman when he refused to try something new. :) I think either method can work but shoving in the rookies smacked of desperation at the least and idiocy at the worst. I have nothing against playing Jimmer or Thomas but please, oh please, leave in Tyreke if only for his defense.

All a shooter needs is to have a couple shots to fall and he can go on a run. Thornton at the least needs to be given the opportunity to get hot unless he actually isn't as good as I think he is - a possibility.
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Agreed. Even I would yell at Adelman when he would keep people in to take them out. But you stick with your guns. It's more likely your Vets will heat up.

If championship coaches like Phil Jackson did similar things, the Lakers would have lost many games because he would take out Kobe before he ever got the chance to catch fire. Stick with the guns - and not panic when things aren't going the way of the team.
 
pshn80 said:
Westphal SAW what was happening, the threesome of Evans, Thornton, Salmons was not working, in fact was useless, and he did something about it, he put in Fredette and Thomas who at least demonstrated better instincts, better basketball but of course they were out of their league last night as were E, T, and S.

So take your pick, I'm glad I wasn't coaching that bunch last night.

Go on, poster, name a line-up that works.
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I don't know if it would have worked, but I would have pulled Salmons and replaced him with Fredette. Move Tyreke to the SF and have Jimmer play the Point. He came close in the first half when he pulled Thornton and brought in Jimmer. It gave him more size with Salmons and Evans on the floor, but I prefer Fredette kicking the ball out to Thornton than to Salmons. If you going to have both Thomas and Fredette on the floor at the same time, then make sure you have Cousins and Hayes, or Cousins and Hickson on the floor at the same time. Actually they did fairly well in the first half with Thompson and Hickson on the floor together. Somehow, that combo eluded Westphal in the second half.
 
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