Paul Milsap

#32
I imagine @206Fan was referring more to just having a PF than comparing skillsets of Millsap and Tolliver.

At least that's how I took it. I would like to think there was a specific purpose behind cutting Tolliver when we are a little thin at the 4, discounting playing bigger or smaller than the norm.
 
#35
Milsap is very good player who has been dragged down by having Dwight Howard as a teammate (like everyone else in the league).

If we added Milsap and Beverly to our three picks (Fox, Collins, Jordan Bell or Caleb from Purdue).
3 years ago yes. Now, no way. I hope Vlade does not sign or grossly overpay a 31 year old on the decline.
 
#36
Because you don't risk assets (capspace, roster space, draft positioning next year, young player development PT) on a hunch that you have an all star or superstar. You go out and get complimentary pieces once you KNOW you have a superstar or all star on the roster. Even if our front office had a history of sound decision making and scouting (it doesn't) there's something to be said for being systematic, pragmatic, and conservative when you are a small town franchise with limited assets.
It's great to have the place to express one's opinion but for me, I'd leave issues like this in the quite capable hands of Vlade, Joerger and staffs. Pretty basketball smart people.
 
#37
I wouldn't sign Milsap, he is a win now veteran. He would have been great next to DMC, but no use now.

I would save the cap space and either take salary dumps for draft picks or use that money to try and sign a younger player with upside.
We need some win now vets to make this team builging work and to teach a little winning attitude to our young folks. Trust Vlade.
 
#39
We have a good coach and no draft pick in 2019 right now so I consider next season to be our make or break year, this year should be entirely talent evaluation - let these kids fight to be the new fan favorites - with a real push the following season.
 
#40
The only angle I can see on this is if Millsap is quietly buddies with about half the league and we need him to be our ambassador next summer when we chase a big ticket player. We will need that type of dude, and we are fresh out of guys with Team USA experience.

Now that I think about, not a bad reason to belly up to the Jordan sweepstakes, too. Team USA loves that dude.
 
#41
To make it abundantly clear I don't mind bringing you in a Paul Milsap but not for a long term deal.

If Vlade is considering bringing Paul Millsap then he must feel very confident about the young players the Kings have and the draft picks this year developing into the players he needs and confident that he can get either or both of Bogdan and Milos.

Part of the thinking could be that he does not feel the Kings could have tracked a free-agent like Paul Millsap without a sign-and-trade like this.

To be honest, I'm convinced that either Buddy, Skal, or the #5 will be an all-star. Add that to people who are proven winners like Bogdan and Milos, in addition to a former All-Star like Paul Millsap and that would give you a pretty good team.

I agree with others on this website and on Twitter that signing Millsap would be short cutting the long-term rebuild. However, it is not short cutting it if Vlade and Dave Joerger believe they have the young pieces they need and just need time for them to develop more than they need additional draft picks in later years.

Let me put it this way, if the kings are convinced that someone on the roster now or in this draft will be the Superstar they need to become a winning franchise why not chase a good free agent or two? The main purpose of the NBA draft is to get that super star to take you to the next level. If you already have that sign or trade for a solid player and begin winning to develop into a great team.
i don't believe that theory. millsap is undersized, aging and will be grossly overpaid. we need to stack assets as much as possible and go for some real targets ala philly and celts. they aren't handing out assets like candy on halloween.

make the shot count
 
#43
only tha KANGZ can trade their centerpiece talk about rebuilding and then do another 180 then take on an aging undersized big man so we can get back into mediocrity. FFS are we gonna give up an unprotected top pick in 2019 when our undersized biggie takes us to mid lottery?#KANGZ
 
#44
only tha KANGZ can trade their centerpiece talk about rebuilding and then do another 180 then take on an aging undersized big man so we can get back into mediocrity. FFS are we gonna give up an unprotected top pick in 2019 when our undersized biggie takes us to mid lottery?#KANGZ
Me and tanking don't get along. Next season I will not root for losses and a high pick. I would much rather enjoy a season, this next one, if it brings us a low draft pick. We need good vets more than ncreasing the number of rookies. We will have enough young ones but unless Vlade doesn't make some move for quality vets we lose and don't properly develop our young ones.
 
#47
If we still had Cousins, then it would have made total sense to target Millsap to add to the team at PF. Imagine a front court of Rudy, Millsap and Cousins - that would be pretty damn good. However, we don't have Cousins anymore.

Next season we will have a rookie PG, a second year shooting guard, and a third year center. There's still a question mark at small forward and if we signed Millsap, that would send Skal to the bench. So even if we brought back Rudy to play SF, I'm not convinced that starting five would get us to the play offs. It might, but there's a chance we'd be in the same tier as Dallas (ie not good enough for the play offs, but not bad enough to have good lottery odds).

For me, I'd stay away from Millsap and let Skal grow as our PF. Use our cap space on a starting SF. I'd go after Otto Porter or one of the SFs available with enough upside and age on their side to be part of the same team long term with our young players. There's no point adding a 32 year old all star player, they aren't on the same timeline.
 
#48
If we still had Cousins, then it would have made total sense to target Millsap to add to the team at PF. Imagine a front court of Rudy, Millsap and Cousins - that would be pretty damn good. However, we don't have Cousins anymore.

Next season we will have a rookie PG, a second year shooting guard, and a third year center. There's still a question mark at small forward and if we signed Millsap, that would send Skal to the bench. So even if we brought back Rudy to play SF, I'm not convinced that starting five would get us to the play offs. It might, but there's a chance we'd be in the same tier as Dallas (ie not good enough for the play offs, but not bad enough to have good lottery odds).

For me, I'd stay away from Millsap and let Skal grow as our PF. Use our cap space on a starting SF. I'd go after Otto Porter or one of the SFs available with enough upside and age on their side to be part of the same team long term with our young players. There's no point adding a 32 year old all star player, they aren't on the same timeline.
Love Skal and his potential but he s not ready for starter minutes and that role is not best for his bevelopment IMNVHO. Let's lave the final analysis and decision where it is - with a very competent FO and coaching staff.
 
#49
From my understanding of what the FO is looking for in Free Agency, Millsap fits the bill spectacularly.

He's really a very, very good player and has pretty much a unique set of skills. He's a two-way player thru and thru. Great hands/ability to get low defensively. He's quite skilled, his age isn't much of a concern to me, his game is far from reliant on athleticism.

He'd bring much needed consistency here and would put up his normal stats no problem.
 
#50
He has pretty much a unique set of skills.
I don't know who you are. I don't know what team you play for. If you're looking for explosive athleticism I can tell you that I don't have any. But what I do have is a unique set of skills.Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for opponents like you. If you stay out of the paint that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will score on you.

From my understanding of what the FO is looking for in Free Agency, Millsap fits the bill spectacularly.

He's really a very, very good player and has pretty much a unique set of skills. He's a two-way player thru and thru. Great hands/ability to get low defensively. He's quite skilled, his age isn't much of a concern to me, his game is far from reliant on athleticism.

He'd bring much needed consistency here and would put up his normal stats no problem.
Millsap is exactly the type of veteran you want the young guys learning from. Similar to Tolliver but obviously a much better player which makes a big difference. One who can push Skal and Giles and WCS and Papa.

I would prefer that they keep their capsheet clean so they can trade for ugly contracts and get young players and/or draft picks in return as that's a better long term rebuild strategy. But I wouldn't hate it if the Kings signed Millsap.

As a side note I have to think part of the attraction the Kings have shown for Millsap over the years is probably due to Vivek seeing him as the next closest thing to Draymond Green.
 
#51
I don't know who you are. I don't know what team you play for. If you're looking for explosive athleticism I can tell you that I don't have any. But what I do have is a unique set of skills.Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for opponents like you. If you stay out of the paint that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will score on you.

"I've been led to understand that Trix are exclusively for children, is that correct?

 
#52
Millsap is exactly the type of veteran you want the young guys learning from. Similar to Tolliver but obviously a much better player which makes a big difference. One who can push Skal and Giles and WCS and Papa.
I think some fans need to get off this age kick. 32 yo in today's sports world isn't what 32 yo used to be. Chris Paul is the same age and just got traded to HOU for a boat load of assets.

While I'm not advocating signing Millsap, his age shouldn't be the big concern. He's still quite productive and a very good player. I'd be more concerned about fit than anything else. But he could be a nice mentor for the next 2 seasons.
 
#53
I think some fans need to get off this age kick. 32 yo in today's sports world isn't what 32 yo used to be. Chris Paul is the same age and just got traded to HOU for a boat load of assets.

While I'm not advocating signing Millsap, his age shouldn't be the big concern. He's still quite productive and a very good player. I'd be more concerned about fit than anything else. But he could be a nice mentor for the next 2 seasons.
I think Millsap will be effective through the end of his next contract. That's not really my objection. My objections are that:

(1) he would eat up pretty much all the Kings caproom
(2) he wouldn't leave as many minutes for Skal as I'd like to see him get
(3) Next season shouldn't really about winning games. It should be developing the young guys and figuring out exactly what we have in them. That likely means a tough season record wise but while I want to see the team play as hard as possible, so many young guys will lead to another lottery pick which you want in a rebuild.
(4) Atlanta & Millsap are looking for a sign-&-trade deal which means the Kings would use up most of their cap AND give up an asset. Given that the Hawks look to be rebuilding I don't see them wanting Koufos so that likely means Richardson though they may want one of either WCS or Papagiannis. That just makes no sense for a rebuilding Kings team.

To point 1, reports are that teams are willing to give Millsap a max or near max deal. That works out to well over $100 million over three seasons and a starting salary of $30-33 million.

At that rate he's a 34-36 mpg player leaving just 12-14 backup PF minutes for Skal and/or Giles. It's basically the same idea as giving Kyle Lowry a max deal to start over Fox for 3 seasons.
 
#54
I think Millsap will be effective through the end of his next contract. That's not really my objection. My objections are that:

(1) he would eat up pretty much all the Kings caproom
(2) he wouldn't leave as many minutes for Skal as I'd like to see him get
(3) Next season shouldn't really about winning games. It should be developing the young guys and figuring out exactly what we have in them. That likely means a tough season record wise but while I want to see the team play as hard as possible, so many young guys will lead to another lottery pick which you want in a rebuild.
(4) Atlanta & Millsap are looking for a sign-&-trade deal which means the Kings would use up most of their cap AND give up an asset. Given that the Hawks look to be rebuilding I don't see them wanting Koufos so that likely means Richardson though they may want one of either WCS or Papagiannis. That just makes no sense for a rebuilding Kings team.

To point 1, reports are that teams are willing to give Millsap a max or near max deal. That works out to well over $100 million over three seasons and a starting salary of $30-33 million.

At that rate he's a 34-36 mpg player leaving just 12-14 backup PF minutes for Skal and/or Giles. It's basically the same idea as giving Kyle Lowry a max deal to start over Fox for 3 seasons.
Ouch. But what team is going to pay him THAT MUCH? I was thinking more along the lines of 18m per for 3 years.
 
#55
I think Millsap will be effective through the end of his next contract. That's not really my objection. My objections are that:

(1) he would eat up pretty much all the Kings caproom
(2) he wouldn't leave as many minutes for Skal as I'd like to see him get
(3) Next season shouldn't really about winning games. It should be developing the young guys and figuring out exactly what we have in them. That likely means a tough season record wise but while I want to see the team play as hard as possible, so many young guys will lead to another lottery pick which you want in a rebuild.
(4) Atlanta & Millsap are looking for a sign-&-trade deal which means the Kings would use up most of their cap AND give up an asset. Given that the Hawks look to be rebuilding I don't see them wanting Koufos so that likely means Richardson though they may want one of either WCS or Papagiannis. That just makes no sense for a rebuilding Kings team.

To point 1, reports are that teams are willing to give Millsap a max or near max deal. That works out to well over $100 million over three seasons and a starting salary of $30-33 million.

At that rate he's a 34-36 mpg player leaving just 12-14 backup PF minutes for Skal and/or Giles. It's basically the same idea as giving Kyle Lowry a max deal to start over Fox for 3 seasons.
Agreed. My concern over looking to sign a player like Millsap is not the signing of an all star calibre player, rather the issue that it would send Skal to the bench and a reduced role. After the Cousins trade Skal started to show flashes of that tremendous upside that saw him tipped to be a high draft pick before he went to college. I would hate to see him benched and given a reduced role. He needs to play and develop because he does have all star upside.

On the topic of next season, I agree that it should be about player development. Give the young players the main minutes and see what they can do. However, I would like to see the team make a concerted effort to be as good as possible. The reason for that is losing can become a habit and we need to make sure that these young players don't develop bad habits and get stuck in the same cycle as we did with Cousins. If the best route is to add a veteran or two to help boost our chances of being a 30+ win team and that helps our youngsters develop and learn to win games, then that could be a step in the right direction.

Also betting on another high pick is hard to do. What happens if we have a Bobcats situation on our hands? Worst record in the league and they failed to get the top pick - Anthony Davis - instead they got Michael Kidd Gilchrist. I don't know how deep next year's draft class is, but if we ended up with only a good talent not a franchise changing one it could be a wasted year which might have been better spent trying to be as competitive as possible and trying to develop our existing talent and getting them into good habits.

It's a tough situation since we do need to continue to add more talent, but tanking or making an effort to do well but not too well to rule out good odds is not my favoured option because for every OKC or 76ers team which gets multiple star potential talents there are many others like Orlando and ourselves that seem stuck in the lottery and never seem to get that same number of franchise changing talent.
 
#56
Ouch. But what team is going to pay him THAT MUCH? I was thinking more along the lines of 18m per for 3 years.
If I'm not mistaken Noah is getting paid around that figure and he was terrible the last year he was in Chicago, I think he even came off the bench, yet he landed a big pay day. Likewise I think Biyombo nets a similar figure in Orlando after one good play off series.

A four time all star like Millsap that is still playing at a high level is likely to get paid well in today's market, especially when the likes of Noah and Biyombo are getting 17-18 million a year.
 
#57
Ouch. But what team is going to pay him THAT MUCH? I was thinking more along the lines of 18m per for 3 years.
He made over $20 million this season and opted out of the final season that was $21 or $22 million. Given the cap increase, all the teams with caproom and his level of play I thunk he'll be looking for a significant raise.
 
#58
He made over $20 million this season and opted out of the final season that was $21 or $22 million. Given the cap increase, all the teams with caproom and his level of play I thunk he'll be looking for a significant raise.
Yeah, I see Millsap getting around $25-27 mil. He's not worth the max ($37 mil a year). The max should really be reserved for franchise players who can lead you to a championship. Invest that much in someone who can't do that, and you're in trouble.
 
#59
From my understanding of what the FO is looking for in Free Agency, Millsap fits the bill spectacularly.

He's really a very, very good player and has pretty much a unique set of skills. He's a two-way player thru and thru. Great hands/ability to get low defensively. He's quite skilled, his age isn't much of a concern to me, his game is far from reliant on athleticism.

He'd bring much needed consistency here and would put up his normal stats no problem.
That is all well and good but you have to admit there are concerns

1. It will take a MX deal to get him to Sacramento. That is 4 years at $30-35 million.....a VERY steep price to pay
2. He is a 32 year old PFs who will be looking at a max deal and that he will most certainly not perform up to in the final years of that deal. Once the player gets into his 30s his decline can be pretty sudden. Body starts breaking down from the physical stress.
3. He plays the same position as arguably our most promising prospect from last season. Millsap will play 34-36mpg which does not leave enough minutes for Skal and his development which should be a priority. Skal should be getting 20-30mpg next season depending on the match ups. Not convinced that Millsap can play SF at his age.
4. Our timeline does not align with Millsap's best years.

I think in terms of veterans, whoever we sign, they should not be older than 28-29 years of age unless they are on a short 2 year deals even if the money is higher as long as the last year is not fully guaranteed.

Kings need veterans but those veterans should not be getting majority of the minutes at their position and unfortunately Millsap is the player that would be commanding majority of minutes at PF. Other than that and his asking price, he brings a lot of qualities that you have to like in a veteran player. I would rather have Zach Randolph as a big PF either starting or coming off the bench for us for a season or two than Millsap. I know that at least with Zach, Skal will get his fair share of playing time.
 
#60
I think Millsap will be effective through the end of his next contract. That's not really my objection. My objections are that:

(1) he would eat up pretty much all the Kings caproom
(2) he wouldn't leave as many minutes for Skal as I'd like to see him get
(3) Next season shouldn't really about winning games. It should be developing the young guys and figuring out exactly what we have in them. That likely means a tough season record wise but while I want to see the team play as hard as possible, so many young guys will lead to another lottery pick which you want in a rebuild.
(4) Atlanta & Millsap are looking for a sign-&-trade deal which means the Kings would use up most of their cap AND give up an asset. Given that the Hawks look to be rebuilding I don't see them wanting Koufos so that likely means Richardson though they may want one of either WCS or Papagiannis. That just makes no sense for a rebuilding Kings team.

To point 1, reports are that teams are willing to give Millsap a max or near max deal. That works out to well over $100 million over three seasons and a starting salary of $30-33 million.

At that rate he's a 34-36 mpg player leaving just 12-14 backup PF minutes for Skal and/or Giles. It's basically the same idea as giving Kyle Lowry a max deal to start over Fox for 3 seasons.
I pretty much agree with both you and @Čarolija on this. I'm not wanting the Kings to sign him either, for many of the reasons you listed. My only point was the age factor, which I think too many fans are fixated on. If a player is a good fit, being 32 shouldn't matter in this day and age. I just don't happen to think the fit is there with Milsap. IMO, a player such as Andre Iguodala is a much better fit because the Kings don't necessarily have a 30+ min a night SF on the roster right now.