Patrick Ewing coming to the Kings?
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
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'12-'13 averages: dwight howard (27) - 35.8 mins, 17.1 pts, 12.4 reb, 1.4 asts, 2.4 blk, 3.0 to, 3.8 pf
'12-'13 averages: demarcus cousins (22) - 30.5 mins, 17.1 pts, 9.9 reb, 2.7 asts, .7 blk, 3.0 to, 3.6 pf
sounds pretty close to me, considering demarcus cousins has considerable room to grow, while dwight howard has likely peaked...
now, if you were to say that the healthy mvp-candidate howard from three years ago would instantly become the best player on this team and it wouldn't even be close, then i would agree with you. but, at this point in time, several factors have become clear regarding howard's potential: he's terribly limited offensively, particularly as his athleticism depreciates in the wake of major injuries. those same injuries limit his defensive mobility, and while he's still a world class weak side shot blocker, he's not an especially great post defender. he no longer controls the pace of the game just by patrolling the paint on defense. will he regain form as his back continues to heal? yes, more than likely. will he ever be the player he once was? that's not nearly as likely...
dwight's also an immature personality far too concerned with what others think. he's mentally weak (his plummeting free throw percentages attest to this fact), and he desires the spotlight of a franchise cornerstone while shying away from the responsibilities that come with the territory. at least demarcus cousins wants to be in sacramento, and wants to lead this team back to glory, even if he's not fully equipped to do so yet...
but dwight howard needs a guy like kobe bryant (or james harden in houston, where dwight's considering yet another defection) to take on the role of a #1, and that makes dwight howard a #2 at this stage of his career. unfortunately, he will always command #1 money, and that's why i wouldn't be so quick to pull the trigger and bring him to sacramento if i were the team's GM, not when i've got a guy like DMC, who has all the potential to very quickly become a #1 under the more ideal circumstances of new ownership/management/coaching...
'12-'13 averages: demarcus cousins (22) - 30.5 mins, 17.1 pts, 9.9 reb, 2.7 asts, .7 blk, 3.0 to, 3.6 pf
sounds pretty close to me, considering demarcus cousins has considerable room to grow, while dwight howard has likely peaked...
now, if you were to say that the healthy mvp-candidate howard from three years ago would instantly become the best player on this team and it wouldn't even be close, then i would agree with you. but, at this point in time, several factors have become clear regarding howard's potential: he's terribly limited offensively, particularly as his athleticism depreciates in the wake of major injuries. those same injuries limit his defensive mobility, and while he's still a world class weak side shot blocker, he's not an especially great post defender. he no longer controls the pace of the game just by patrolling the paint on defense. will he regain form as his back continues to heal? yes, more than likely. will he ever be the player he once was? that's not nearly as likely...
dwight's also an immature personality far too concerned with what others think. he's mentally weak (his plummeting free throw percentages attest to this fact), and he desires the spotlight of a franchise cornerstone while shying away from the responsibilities that come with the territory. at least demarcus cousins wants to be in sacramento, and wants to lead this team back to glory, even if he's not fully equipped to do so yet...
but dwight howard needs a guy like kobe bryant (or james harden in houston, where dwight's considering yet another defection) to take on the role of a #1, and that makes dwight howard a #2 at this stage of his career. unfortunately, he will always command #1 money, and that's why i wouldn't be so quick to pull the trigger and bring him to sacramento if i were the team's GM, not when i've got a guy like DMC, who has all the potential to very quickly become a #1 under the more ideal circumstances of new ownership/management/coaching...
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Boogie is never going to be a shotblocker. I noted that as soon as he showed up. Guys don't learn to be shotblockers. They either have those instincts or don't by the time they hit college. He will be a guy who tops out in the low 1s and can get one here and there, but he'll never be a factor in that respect. Its the biggest limitation to his potential. Offensively he has skills that few centers have ever had. But defensively he will never be that anchor.
Howard spent a couple of offseasons working with Hakeem, and he probably helped Howards game more than Ewing. Also, Ewing wants a lead assistant job, not just a big mans coach job. Thats not about to happen on the Kings. I suspect that Malone's father has the lead position nailed down, or would be first in line. Moving Ewing from being a big man's coach, to a lead assistant position might be an example of the Peter Principle in action. Just saying!
Pointing out a players flaws doesn't equate to hate. Its just honest opinion that differs with yours. In general, great players, in any sport make terrible coaches. Not their fault, its just that it came easy to them, and they have a hard time understanding why you can't do what they can do. In general, most of the great coaches, if ex-players, were just blue collar rotational players that had to put out 100% all the time to stay in the NBA. They had to know every little trick in the book about their position. They know about hard work. Thats why guys like Riley, Jackson and Adelman were good coaches, and guys like I. Thomas (the original) wasn't.
So the truth is, neither you, nor I, know if Ewing is, or would be a good coach for the Kings. All were doing is speculating, and warming the room with hot air.
So the truth is, neither you, nor I, know if Ewing is, or would be a good coach for the Kings. All were doing is speculating, and warming the room with hot air.
wowsers
I honestly want nothing to do with Dwight on this team. Yes, his shot blocking would be great, but he wants to be the top dog without having top dog talent on the offensive end. He tries to out muscle you 100% of the time and still doesn't do that correctly half the time.
Still looks raw when trying to set up a post move, which is unbelievable considering he's been in the league for 9 years.
I honestly want nothing to do with Dwight on this team. Yes, his shot blocking would be great, but he wants to be the top dog without having top dog talent on the offensive end. He tries to out muscle you 100% of the time and still doesn't do that correctly half the time.
Still looks raw when trying to set up a post move, which is unbelievable considering he's been in the league for 9 years.
Well, player with similar athleticism, Bogut went from modest block numbers in mid-major college to pretty big threat in the NBA. More interesting, he seemingly did that in one off-season, jumping from 2.7 to 6.2block%. He kept his def.reb.% so it's not like he decided to transform to Marcus Camby - Bogut was challenging shots while still keeping his position.
Marc Gasol went with 2.9-3.4-4.1 trajectory in block% during his first 3 seasons, while being almost 24, when he made his NBA debut. Another guy who gets blocks as a side effect to shot contesting, while staying in position for a rebound.
To get similar results Cousins has to work on his understanding of the game, anticipation, what the play will look like, when it only start to unfold. Ewing was still a major shot-blocker even in the late 90s when his athleticism was gone so he might have insight what Boogie should do.
Marc Gasol went with 2.9-3.4-4.1 trajectory in block% during his first 3 seasons, while being almost 24, when he made his NBA debut. Another guy who gets blocks as a side effect to shot contesting, while staying in position for a rebound.
To get similar results Cousins has to work on his understanding of the game, anticipation, what the play will look like, when it only start to unfold. Ewing was still a major shot-blocker even in the late 90s when his athleticism was gone so he might have insight what Boogie should do.
Yeah, I agree. Don't get me wrong, I would't turn him down. But he's a one trick pony. A very good one trick pony, but still one, none the less. It is amazing to me that after that many years in the league he still has zero game away from the basket. He relies almost totally on his athleticism, which will be a problem as he ages.
You could put Chris Kaman on that list as well. He made dramatic improvements in the shotblocking dept. Thats not to say that Cuz can duplicate those players, but it does give one hope. The key word you used was anticipation. All great defenders have it. Plus, if you add personal knowledge about your opponent, your defense can improve considerably. As I've pointed out many times, Bird wasn't fast, couldn't jump, and had average lateral quickness, but yet was a good defender. He had excellent anticipation, and he studied all his opponents habits. Being a good defender is very hard work, and something you should take pride in. Cousins doesn't have to be a top shotblocker to be a good defender in a team defense concept. It would certainly help, but we have use the gifts we have, not the one's we wish we had.
Actually, I've never heard anyone rave about what a good big man coach Ewing is. But I have heard very good reports about Clifford Ray. Just because Ewing has better name recognition doesn't mean he's a better coach than Ray. Also, I think you might get some argument from several GM's around the league about Howard being the best center in the league. Maybe 3 years ago, but not now.
If Mike Malone has strong ties to the Detroit Bad Boys teams, it wouldn't be a shock to see Bill Lambier considered.
I have heard Lambier wants to coach in the NBA. He was an assistant to Kurt Rambis in Minnesota. He coached Detroit's WNBA team to a championship. He might not be a horrible choice.
Don't know what he is doing now... And pure speculation on my part...
I have heard Lambier wants to coach in the NBA. He was an assistant to Kurt Rambis in Minnesota. He coached Detroit's WNBA team to a championship. He might not be a horrible choice.
Don't know what he is doing now... And pure speculation on my part...
Well, Howard and Ewing had different skillsets. Dwight showed that he's not gonna learn to shoot, and jumpshot was Ewing's main weapon when his team found most success. Hakeem would be much better comp for Howard, and he learned a bit from The Dream. I think, they were working out around the time Magic got in the NBA Finals. From then Howard probably decided he already knew everything.
Here is the rub... If Malone brings in Lamier then the chances of landing Bird as GM go from near zero to absolute zero. Bird HATES Lambier and what he brought/brings to game. For similar reasons I don't want Lambier any where near our team. No one needs to teach Cousins how to slide under an opponent when he goes up, or how to cheap shot the neck... that crap just ain't basketball, and never was.
Bogut and Gasol are gigantic players though. Don't get me wrong, Cousins is a big dude but Bogut's head is almost as big as Cousins alone. I don't care what the height/weight/wingspan stats might say. Watch Bogut and Gasol play and they tower over everyone else on the court. Cousins doesn't have that presence and I don't see him ever being like that. Like Brick said, he's most likely never going to average much more than 1 block a game. All I want is for him to get himself in position and use his wide body to disrupt shots in the paint.
As far as Howard goes to the other posters who are still bashing him....comparing some of his superficial stats to Cousins' is not going to cut it. Howard has a bigger impact on the game on a team that has way more talent than our team. Can you imagine Howard's stats if he was playing for the Kings last year? I know it'll never happen but he would be awesome next to Cousins. Some of you guys act like we can be choosy or something. This is Sacramento folks and no one is going to want to come here unless the team is a championship contender. You don't get to the championships by passing up elite talent because they are annoying crybabies who aren't as tough as you think they should be.
As far as Howard goes to the other posters who are still bashing him....comparing some of his superficial stats to Cousins' is not going to cut it. Howard has a bigger impact on the game on a team that has way more talent than our team. Can you imagine Howard's stats if he was playing for the Kings last year? I know it'll never happen but he would be awesome next to Cousins. Some of you guys act like we can be choosy or something. This is Sacramento folks and no one is going to want to come here unless the team is a championship contender. You don't get to the championships by passing up elite talent because they are annoying crybabies who aren't as tough as you think they should be.
The question remains though, how much did that back surgery really set Dwight back? The point is without his athleticism, a great deal of his game suffers. The reason Tim Duncan is still dropping 20+ points and 10+ rebounds in the Finals at 37 is because his game is based on fundamentals and not athleticism. Dwight is the opposite. I don't want a broken Dwight. Even if we had the first pick in the draft I don't think I would take Noel with his multiple knee injuries. Historically, it has never worked out well for the team that took the risk.
Edit: I am not saying Dwight wouldn't help the Kings, it just he is an additional injury away from being a shell of himself. Also, I don't think his attitude is the type we should stick Cousins with! That's just my opinion on it. Not saying yours is wrong!
Edit: I am not saying Dwight wouldn't help the Kings, it just he is an additional injury away from being a shell of himself. Also, I don't think his attitude is the type we should stick Cousins with! That's just my opinion on it. Not saying yours is wrong!
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I can only hope that we get back to stressing fundamentals. Our teams the past few years have had no evidence of any schooling or practice of the basics. It's always most obvious when the going gets tough and they have nothing to fall back on. I may not particularly like the Spurs, although I'm rooting for them right now, but you cannot question the excellence of their coaching.
I'm not sure Dwight Howard could or would buy into that culture, Patrick Ewing or no Patrick Ewing.
I'm not sure Dwight Howard could or would buy into that culture, Patrick Ewing or no Patrick Ewing.
It certainly would be a sight to sore eyes for a Kings team to incorporate fundamentals in their style of play. I share a similar opinion with you in regards to the Spurs. I never really rooted them, and actually hated them for a bit because of their success. But with time comes wisdom. As you said, you have to respect their coaching, their drafting, and their discipline. They do everything at a high level, and reap the benefits. With Dwight, he has been in the league long enough to have added fundamentals to his athletic abilities, but he hasn't really done a great job. It's a shame because as his athleticism diminishes (already starting to) his use on the court will diminish as well.
Its not just Duncan, but the entire team. The Spurs have 9 players that are from other countries. Say what you want about european, or south american basketball, but they stress fundamentals. Its no accident that the Spurs continue to be a good basketball team year after year. I've nothing against great athlete's. If you can find a great athlete thats also fundamentally sound, you have Kobe, and Lebron. Kobe is another that time has caught up with, but he's still a very good basketball player. When time catches up with Howard, his trip to the bottom will be a quick one, unless he starts to add to his game.
Agreed. The Spurs stress skills over leaping ability and it has gotten them this far. Foreign players are usually more sound fundamentally as the game overseas is not as dependent on physical ability as it is in the NBA. The Spurs clearly know this as you already alluded to. Although, Duncan wasn't exactly a slow mover when he entered the league; the Spurs found their fundamentally sound and great athlete in Duncan and just surrounded him with proper players. Howard is too stubborn and too much of a prima donna to realize his deficiencies. He won't add to his game that is pretty much a given.
On the topic of adding to one's game, I think this speaks for itself:
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Season/FT%[/td]
[td]Dwight Howard[/td]
[td]Tim Duncan[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]04-05[/td]
[td].671[/td]
[td].670[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]05-06[/td]
[td].595[/td]
[td].629[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]06-07[/td]
[td].586[/td]
[td].637[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]07-08[/td]
[td].590[/td]
[td].730[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]08-09[/td]
[td].594[/td]
[td].692[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]09-10[/td]
[td].592[/td]
[td].725[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10-11[/td]
[td].596[/td]
[td].716[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11-12[/td]
[td].491[/td]
[td].695[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12-13[/td]
[td].492[/td]
[td].817[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
And it's not as if Dwight Howard is so dominant offensively ala Shaq that his FT% can be ignored.
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Season/FT%[/td]
[td]Dwight Howard[/td]
[td]Tim Duncan[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]04-05[/td]
[td].671[/td]
[td].670[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]05-06[/td]
[td].595[/td]
[td].629[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]06-07[/td]
[td].586[/td]
[td].637[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]07-08[/td]
[td].590[/td]
[td].730[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]08-09[/td]
[td].594[/td]
[td].692[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]09-10[/td]
[td].592[/td]
[td].725[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10-11[/td]
[td].596[/td]
[td].716[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11-12[/td]
[td].491[/td]
[td].695[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12-13[/td]
[td].492[/td]
[td].817[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
And it's not as if Dwight Howard is so dominant offensively ala Shaq that his FT% can be ignored.
What kind of monsters do you think Gasol and Bogut are?
Quality is bad but I don't see Marc here being bigger than Boogie
Same for Bogut:
I don't care if he gets .8 or 1.8 blocks per game as long as everybody in Kings paint has to shoot over all 113 inches of his length. He can certainly get in position in time - it's not harder than getting in position for a charge. All he has to do is technique of keeping his arms up and jumping only straight up as well.
Quality is bad but I don't see Marc here being bigger than Boogie
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We are talking about ability to contest penetration, not over-simplification of just counting blocking shots and judging defense of the paint on that. You can see that Cousins moves better than these two, and he has better or similar length. Getting blocks requires excellent timing and that will likely never come, but not getting in position and forcing offense to shoot over him with his physical tools is lack of training and focus.