Pass the Ball to Donte, and let him shoot.

[Bricklayer]

History shows us nothing of the sort -- there is no trend of damaging players by playing them too much -- that's pure invention, probably working off some sort of pop psychology premise. That does not mean you have to start the from Day 1 -- that depends on the player. But it means you COULD, with no bigger negative effect than you losing a bunch of games.

Now Donte is in no way ready to start in the NBA. But if you do not play him at all, he never will be. Young guys learn by playing. Not by watching. Not by getting doughnuts. They learn by playing, real, meaningful minutes against the elvel of competition they will have to fdace if they are ever to be major players. Burying them behind vets and thinking this is "developing" in them anything except a desperate desire to go elsewhere where they will have a real opportunity is the fantasy.

P.S. Kobe was on a stacked team, so that does not apply. And Portland totally and completely and notoriously fouled up the Jermaine situation -- they SHOULD have played him more early, but again, stacked team, and they eventually lost a star because of it. Same for us with Gerald actually. The other guys played -- did not start, but they were playing, worked into the rotations, and being groomed for the start, not buried and left to fend for themselves (actually TMac averaged 20mpg his first two seasons, and Rashard averaged 20mpg in his second season, but his first was a waste).

 

[Prince_XY]

History shows us nothing of the sort -- there is no trend of damaging players by playing them too much -- that's pure invention, probably working off some sort of pop psychology premise. That does not mean you have to start the from Day 1 -- that depends on the player. But it means you COULD, with no bigger negative effect than you losing a bunch of games.

Now Donte is in no way ready to start in the NBA. But if you do not play him at all, he never will be. Young guys learn by playing. Not by watching. Not by getting doughnuts. They learn by playing, real, meaningful minutes against the elvel of competition they will have to fdace if they are ever to be major players. Burying them behind vets and thinking this is "developing" in them anything except a desperate desire to go elsewhere where they will have a real opportunity is the fantasy.

P.S. Kobe was on a stacked team, so that does not apply. And Portland totally and completely and notoriously fouled up the Jermaine situation -- they SHOULD have played him more early, but again, stacked team, and they eventually lost a star because of it. Same for us with Gerald actually. The other guys played -- did not start, but they were playing, worked into the rotations, and being groomed for the start, not buried and left to fend for themselves (actually TMac averaged 20mpg his first two seasons, and Rashard averaged 20mpg in his second season, but his first was a waste).

Thanks. This is somewhat part of my thoughts.

I remember Gerald Wallace when he first showed a crystal clear talent that he can be great. We never got the chance to play him that much for a good reason and we lost him before he even realized half of his potential. Same way with Hedo, except that we got Brad Miller for him who turned out to be a good trade for the team during that time. We lost both players and never got the chance to develop them fully, because the team was pretty much stacked up. We have the option to not make the same move with Donte Greene.

Times are different now for the Kings. We actually have the luxury of playing our young kids more and experiment a little, because we know that all the veterans ( except for Martin and Miller ) are at most mediocre players and not capable of bringing the old glory days. We'll lose nothing if we gamble, since we already know anyways that we are not a playoff team whether we like it or not.

We know what kind of players we have in Salmons and Garcia, who are very good players, but had already shown to be not quite good enough to bring this team back to its greatness. Both are relatively small at #3 ( small forward ), but good enough as back up for Kevin Martin at #2 and at times at #1. And we've got Greene, a talented and confident player at 6' 10" and just about almost perfect/ideal at #3.

So, why not accelerate the development of Donte Greene at #3 a little bit more than usual?

Why not gamble now?

I'd say let him shoot 10-12 times a game at the same time he's being taught the concept of teamwork and defense.


.

 

[Spike]

I'd say give him 10-12 minutes a game at the same time he's being taught the concept of teamwork and defense.

I'll agree with the above edit (my edit, btw.) Minutes, not shots. If a shot opens up during the flow of the game, fine. But I'd rather not have him think he's "the man" by encouraging x amount of shots. I'd rather have him focus on spacing, rebounding, getting to the rim for said rebounds, etc.

 

[VF21]

I'd say let him shoot 10-12 times a game at the same time he's being taught the concept of teamwork and defense.

Again with the shots per game? As Spike pointed out, it's not just about SHOTS. It's about learning how to play within your team, deferring to your teammates when necessary and taking the shot yourself WHEN IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

A blanket green light isn't going to do Donte, the team or the fans any good. Ever. He'll be better served - and so will the Kings - if he plays within the offense, works in tandem with his teammates, and becomes PART of a successful team.

This is a team game, remember. Way too many times, people talk as though their favorite player is the next Kobe Bryant and the ONLY thing holding him back is being able to chuck up unlimited shots.

It ain't that easy and very few players out there are the next Kobe Bryant.

Yes, Donte should see minutes and he should be allowed to be part of the offense on the court. That means taking the shot when it's the right thing to do, NOT taking the shot simply because he gets his hands on the ball.

 

[FakeInjury]

The one thing I liked about Musselman was his ability to green light any player at any moment, like he did with Artest, and it worked~. He quickly ended his kings career in direct relation to those choices. But he still had the guts to make those very risky choices. And Theus hasn't shown that unpridictability when it comes down to matchups. Greene, on principal should be the 1st or 2nd sub, imo. D'anoti was very good at comminicating the green light, and what it can mean. Theus's structure just seems a little conservative.

 

[Spike]

The one thing I liked about Musselman was his ability to green light any player at any moment, like he did with Artest, and it worked~.

Want to clarify that? Last I hear, Muss was blogging somewhere in Jersey.

Why should Greene be the first or second off the bench? I'll give you that he should be the second SF off the bench after Salmons/Garcia, but not much else after that.
Our starting lineup:

Udrih
Martin
Salmons
Moore (probably, although I don't agree)
Miller

First off the bench by position:

Brown/Bjax (PG)
Garcia/Douby (SG)
Garcia/Greene (SF)
Thompson/Williams (PF)
Hawes/Moore (C)

It seems to me that Greene will get minutes, albeit sparingly according to my guess. I'm open to other interpretations, and how they affect Greene's minutes.

 

[Warhawk]

Greene, on principal should be the 1st or 2nd sub, imo.

What principle are you referring to?

 

[NME]

Greene, on principal should be the 1st or 2nd sub, imo.

What principal are you referring to?

 

[Kingsguy881]

Lets not get to down on the folks who want to see Donte chuck up some shots. They obviously aren't serious fans of the sport and see "getting your offense on" as the way to develop a player.

I think we can be a little more cognizant of this fact, and be a little nicer by explaining the real true way to develop a quality future player/baller in this league.

For those that want him to chuck up shots, while shooting can help get your stroke comfortable, there are many places and times when you can practice your stroke. The one thing that is most important to practice in an actual physical game, esp. for Greene and Thompson, is game speed. To a lesser extent for these two talents what they need to work on is footwork and positioning. These three things are critical, as once they learn where they need to be on the court, where their teammates are and/or are going to be, and how to handle their body control at the tempo that the NBA game is played at they will be VERY effective players.

So in conclusion, whatever amount of PT these guys get is basically going to be developing them. A very important aspect of their in-game development will be the film sessions they go through after the game, when the coaching staff can freeze frame and show them where they should be on the court, explain why they are out of position, and see how well they can apply these teachings in the next outing. THAT is how they will develop, as they can shoot the ball all they want at any time of the day, but the real important stuff is the unseen portion of the game, to the casual fan's observation. Do you think Kobe can make those amazing layups and fadeaways because he practiced them all the time? Partly, but the major aspect of it is his body control and how he can predetermine where the defense will be and where he needs to be to get off his shot. He has the best body control in the game, him, DWade and LBJ, and it didn't come from chucking up shots but rather them knowing the speed of the game and having the intelligence to exploit it to their advantage.

 

[VF21]

Kingsgurl881 -

A little nicer about explaining the real true way to develop players?

Sorry, but I have to disagree. FakeInjury is one of those message board posters who delight in stirring things up and posting comments they KNOW beyond any shadow of a doubt will elicit certain reactions. They wait with baited breath for those reactions. It's actually part and parcel of what message boards are all about...

Don't worry. He'll be fine...

I do agree with the rest of your post, however.

 

[Warhawk]

Lets not get to down on the folks who want to see Donte chuck up some shots. They obviously aren't serious fans of the sport and see "getting your offense on" as the way to develop a player.

I think we can be a little more cognizant of this fact, and be a little nicer by explaining the real true way to develop a quality future player/baller in this league.

I think if you read many of the posts in this thread, you will see that this has been explained several times. Some folks just refuse to listen.....

 

[Kingsguy881]

Kingsgurl881 -

A little nicer about explaining the real true way to develop players?

Sorry, but I have to disagree. FakeInjury is one of those message board posters who delight in stirring things up and posting comments they KNOW beyond any shadow of a doubt will elicit certain reactions. They wait with baited breath for those reactions. It's actually part and parcel of what message boards are all about...

Don't worry. He'll be fine...

I do agree with the rest of your post, however.

I have to stick up for him......he and I are fellow Jesuit grads.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I think if you read many of the posts in this thread, you will see that this has been explained several times. Some folks just refuse to listen.....

Ok, you got me. I just read the whole 6 pages and I think that I must let this one pass. I just came in on the last page or so and thought he was getting a bum rap. But, dude is asking for it.

 

[bajaden]

Ok, you got me. I just read the whole 6 pages and I think that I must let this one pass. I just came in on the last page or so and thought he was getting a bum rap. But, dude is asking for it.

You've already proved to be more rational than him. Welcome aboard. I will abort the quilty by association missle.

 

[Prince_XY]

I can see the rationale in developing a young player SLOWLY. All your reasons are valid to a certain extent depending on what kind of new player you have and what kind of veterans you have in the team. The fact is we have less than starter player talents for #3 on this team. That is why it would be wise to gamble and develop Greene for the #3 as fast as as we can.

Moreover, the disagreement comes from the fact that we put Donte Greene's talent and enormous potential at a different level.

Frankly, I see Greene in the mold of Kevin Durant.

If they were able to accelerate somewhat Durants' development by giving him the ball, why can't we?

Is it because we still have Salmons and Garcia on #3?

Pardon me, but do you honestly think we can settle on the talents of Salmons and Garcia to match up the talents of Hedo, Peja, Tayshaun Prince, and/or a Lamar Odom on #3?

If your answer is YES, then I'd say let us just continue to be the sorry team in the NBA. And let us continue to be happy seeing those 2 players make one great move or two every other game and be very proud of them - as if we have best small forwards in the NBA. But prepare ourselves from ridicule from other NBA fans.

And don't get me wrong. When I say accelerate Greene's development, I don't mean just let him chuck up his shots. That is so stupid. I'd say give him the ball, let him develop some more his confidence to shoot, and teach him to wisely select his shots. Also, I don't mean to encourage him to think that " he is the man " in this team which is also stupid.

" I'd say let him shoot 10-12 times a game at the same time he's being taught the concept of teamwork and defense."

BTW, you can ask all basketball players and they will tell you one thing - those everyday personal/team practice make a big difference, but there is no substitute in learning by playing in the real game.

.

 

[Spike]

Frankly, I see Greene in the mold of Kevin Durant.

If they were able to accelerate somewhat Durants' development by giving him the ball, why can't we?

Dude. Durant is the face of that franchise. He was also more basketball ready than Greene at his age. Just because they're both young doesn't mean much. Greene also has a history of being a chucker. He was that way at Syracuse, and that habit needs to be broken, not encouraged.

And don't get me wrong. When I say accelerate Greene's development, I don't mean just let him chuck up his shots. That is so stupid. I'd say give him the ball, let him develop some more his confidence to shoot, and teach him to wisely select his shots. Also, I don't mean to encourage him to think that " he is the man " in this team which is also stupid.

" I'd say let him shoot 10-12 times a game at the same time he's being taught the concept of teamwork and defense."

BTW, you can ask all basketball players and they will tell you one thing - those everyday personal/team practice make a big difference, but there is no substitute in learning by playing in the real game.

You're talking about two different things. Giving him minutes will definitely help him become a better player. No one here is arguing that. He'll probably get around 10 minutes a game, depending upon how quickly he understands his role in the offense. There are other younger players on this team who are ahead of him on the learning curve, which is why they'll get more PT.

10-12 shots is not the answer. Given the minutes he'll receive, that's more than shot a minute. Think about that for a second - it's an absurd number for someone on this team not in the starting 5. If he's out there, takes two shots, scores on a put-back and grabs a couple of boards, that's a good day. In fact, that might get him more PT.

For poops, giggles, and a frame of reference - Kevin Martin averaged about 15 shots per game.

 

[Jerryaki]

10-12 shots is not the answer. Given the minutes he'll receive, that's more than shot a minute. Think about that for a second - it's an absurd number for someone on this team not in the starting 5. If he's out there, takes two shots, scores on a put-back and grabs a couple of boards, that's a good day. In fact, that might get him more PT.

get that fancy pants logic out of here!

how are people making proclamations on who to develop after a few PRESEASON games? this is donte greene we're talking about, not a top 5 pick, someone another team traded just for an artest rental. let's see how he does with the playing time he earns over the first 10 games, then let's talk about if his development needs to be fast tracked.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Is it because we still have Salmons and Garcia on #3?

Pardon me, but do you honestly think we can settle on the talents of Salmons and Garcia to match up the talents of Hedo, Peja, Tayshaun Prince, and/or a Lamar Odom on #3?

.

Ok, dude, you compared Salmons to Peja. Salmons in effect is a good to great defender on the perimeter. Peja can only play on the perimeter, and he can't take the ball to the hoop. I would take a Salmons Peja matchup anyday. Salmons would use Peja like a <ahem>.

You would have done better by listing some better sf's. Salmons stacks up well against the people listed. Did you not see him effectively slowing down Kobe last year and a couple nights ago?

So, why don't you use a LBJ, Durant, Marion, Caron Butler, Paul Pierce, or someone of that nature. You listed some of the medium range sf's. Step yo game up, list the top 5 at the position. Like a Danny Granger. C'mon, Salmons is not that bad, not the best, but a capable player for that position.

Lets put it this way. He won't be the weak link in our starting 5. Not by a long stretch of imagination.

 

[FakeInjury]

Frankly, I see Greene in the mold of Kevin Durant.


.

KD is a reasonable comparison, but im thinking he's more of a LBJ/Vadamir Radmonovic type if there is such a thing. Have you seen how wide and long DG actually is? He has a very decent build, and that is something Durant is going to be lacking for a while. As of today, KD is a decent comparison. Kevin Martin was a steal a few year ago, and according to the excessive media coverage surrounding DG, it appears the kings got caked up again. But Theus has a record of slow rolling his rookies, and not letting the leauge know what he has before he knows what he has; Which is smart. If other teams don't think DG will be playing, they won't prep for his arrival. Just another weap in the arsenal.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

KD is a reasonable comparison, but im thinking he's more of a LBJ/Vadamir Radmonovic type if there is such a thing. Have you seen how wide and long DG actually is? He has a very decent build, and that is something Durant is going to be lacking for a while. As of today, KD is a decent comparison. Kevin Martin was a steal a few year ago, and according to the excessive media coverage surrounding DG, it appears the kings got caked up again. But Theus has a record of slow rolling his rookies, and not letting the leauge know what he has before he knows what he has; Which is smart. If other teams don't think DG will be playing, they won't prep for his arrival. Just another weap in the arsenal.

 

[Lupin]

LBJ/Vladimir? I don't know how I feel about this...


"With the 13th pick in the draft, the Sacramento Kings select... Lebron James Radmonovic!

Not to be confused with the Lakers pick, Pistol Pete...








... Ostertag."



Just kidding. I loved Ostertag when he was with the Kings!

Seriously though, I haven't seen much on Donte to judge him but where did the whole rookies develop slowly under Reggie come from? Was this in college or something? I thought Spencer developed pretty well last year.

 

[Kingsguy881]

KD is a reasonable comparison, but im thinking he's more of a LBJ/Vadamir Radmonovic type if there is such a thing. Have you seen how wide and long DG actually is? He has a very decent build, and that is something Durant is going to be lacking for a while. As of today, KD is a decent comparison. Kevin Martin was a steal a few year ago, and according to the excessive media coverage surrounding DG, it appears the kings got caked up again. But Theus has a record of slow rolling his rookies, and not letting the leauge know what he has before he knows what he has; Which is smart. If other teams don't think DG will be playing, they won't prep for his arrival. Just another weap in the arsenal.

What was it Rick James said? "Cocaine is a h*lluva drug"?

 

[bajaden]

What was it Rick James said? "Cocaine is a h*lluva drug"?

Damm! I thought he said motrin.