Our Young Bigs - Spence and JT

[Nighthawk1]

We know they're young, and raw in some aspects. Being inconsistent is to be expected. How do you view them right now and do you think they fit in to where this team ultimately wants to reach? If not, are you willing to trade them away and if so for what...

Here is how I view them right now:

Spence - He's a wuss, he has skills but like Donte of last year prefers to chuck 3's. Seems to spend 3/4 the game doing nothing then in the 4th he usually wakes up and plays. That being said, he plays little defense, get's backed down in the paint a lot, and rarely uses his size to back smaller players down.

JT - Has hustle, but is streaky. If he's having a bad start it sometimes affects him mentally. He can't seem to finish inside yet but his outside shot, rebounding, and passing skills have all increased this year. He still plays weak post defense (I'm not sure if he realizes how big he is) but he might just need to add some more muscle.

I personally don't think Spence fits into what we need at the starting C spot. He needs more time to grow into a NBA role where his game play isn't as vital to whether we succeed or not.

JT on the other hand, gets me going both ways. His post D leaves a lot to be desired right now, and his inability to finish at the basket is painful to watch at times... It's a fixable problem and when he's on he's on... I think he's a keeper.

 

[ParniValjak]

Personally I don't think either will be a star in this league and as mentioned in other threads, I think for us to be successful we need to have an inside outside game and get an "inside" star.

As a results both of them are expandable for the right player. Like Kevin, tradeable but for the right piece and not just for the sake of trading them.

 

[NewArena]

Thompson is the perfect bench player. I would trade Hawes very quickly if we got something we needed.

 

[D13]

....anybody ever think it's maybe how we develop our bigs that's not helping? This is something of a pattern. We need a big bigman coach....

 

[OptimusRhyme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KctN_UtWsNU

like JT says near the end. "to have success you have to go through some adversity" and thats exactly what our young bigs are going through right now.
we have all seen their potential and seen both of them give us monster games.. so theres no reason to think JT and Spence cant be good or great in time.

 

[Krunker]

One additional thing that bugs me about Hawes is if he's not sure what to do with the ball then he tends to really telegraph his moves. There's a look and turn to tell his defender "I'm going to turn right now!"

 

[Arkitect]

....anybody ever think it's maybe how we develop our bigs that's not helping? This is something of a pattern. We need a big bigman coach....

The thing is they are playing the same way they were expected to when they were drafted. Spencer was never a great rebounder or defender. JT never had a developed post game. The thing with NBA players is that while certain traits can be learned, many are just inherent talents or physical gifts. The fact is most NBA big men are not stars and no amount of coaching is going to change that. However, both JT and Spencer have a lot to offer and many of the mistakes they are making are things that will be remedied with time. All NBA bigs have to go through this. Even the really good ones.

 

[swisshh]

JT and Hawes are letting the refs take them out of the game. There's nothing to be done about it, there is no way to change the refs within the game. Complain afterwards, but just keep going hard. If they won't reward you then at least you tried. Right now they are letting the current streak of questionable officiating get into their head, making them question going inside.

 

[Chupacabra]

Ive said it before and i'll say it again. I dont like how Justin Thompson and Spencer Hawes are referred to as if theyre siamese twins. "Our young bigs" ? As if theres no possibility of them being individuals. Thompson looks much more up for the task of starting in the NBA than Hawes does. Hes in his 2nd year in the league and is a 14/9 guy. The fact that theyre so far apart makes it annoying to hear "them" and "they".

 

[deekay2o9]

Ive said it before and i'll say it again. I dont like how Justin Thompson and Spencer Hawes are referred to as if theyre siamese twins. "Our young bigs" ? As if theres no possibility of them being individuals. Thompson looks much more up for the task of starting in the NBA than Hawes does. Hes in his 2nd year in the league and is a 14/9 guy. The fact that theyre so far apart makes it annoying to hear "them" and "they".

Justin Thompson?? Hybrid of Justin Williams and Jason Thompson?

 

[Chupacabra]

Justin Thompson?? Hybrid of Justin Williams and Jason Thompson?

Woopsey doospey. Jason, Justin. Same thing right?

 

[PoundForPound]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KctN_UtWsNU

like JT says near the end. "to have success you have to go through some adversity" and thats exactly what our young bigs are going through right now.
we have all seen their potential and seen both of them give us monster games.. so theres no reason to think JT and Spence cant be good or great in time.

This post made me burst out in laughter. Not the part about adversity, but the idea that Spencer Hawes can come anywhere close to being "Great".

 

[PoundForPound]

when i think of what kind of player someone is, the most important thing to me is how their presence alone effects their team. spencer hawes' presence does nothing for this team, it actually hurts us, while jason doesn't help much either, but isn't as bad as hawes. be honest and ask yourself how often are you screaming at your television set for these guys to throw it down/finish or wonder why the hell they just committed such a foolish turnover. im sure it happens a lot.

spencer - i dont care if hes 21. hes an NBA player that's how i look at it. has good passing skills for a big man and might block a shot a game, but that's about it. does not have a good basketball IQ, is a huge softy, never goes up strong. whens the last time you saw spencer go up for a dunk in traffic? yeah, think hard. relies too much on his outside shot, which is very inconsistent. hurts his team more then he helps them by being on the floor. huge softy. man on man defense is terrible, although he can come from the blind side and block a shot. Not a starter on any team. 3rd string center.

jason thompson - closer to being a starter on some teams. needs to get stronger. he goes up way too soft sometimes. i find myself yelling at the tv for him to flush it down once in a while, the same with spencer. has a semi-consistent jumpshot from 10-15 feet. clumsy, makes dumb decisions, loses the ball sometimes. needs to redirect his emotion to his game instead of the refs. bad finisher. should be coming off the bench and only starts because we have no one else, but i would personally rather have kenny starting at PF.

MORE PT FOR BENO! Sergio is solid but commits too many turnovers and makes dumb decisions trying to be fancy. there's a reason he was benched before. maybe paul westphal just forgot what that reason was. well he saw it tonight.


That's the truth.

 

[drboiffard]

Hawes has a problem of attitude. He has to be tougher. He has a very high basketball IQ, but he is so inconsistent and so soft... Of course if he continues without improving he won't be anyone in the league. But if someday he changes his mind he can turn into a great player at center or power forward.

Thompson is improving great this summer, and at least the games I've seen he can be a very good legit man off the bench right now. He's good, has to improve but he's fine.


The best thing for the team right now for this two would be to pick up a very good starter center that leaves them less playing time. If there's no necessity of them in the court because they're not the only big men, maybe they start training (and playing) harder...but if they don't have competence and they're going to start because they're the only option...

 

[Nighthawk1]

Ive said it before and i'll say it again. I dont like how Justin Thompson and Spencer Hawes are referred to as if theyre siamese twins. "Our young bigs" ? As if theres no possibility of them being individuals. Thompson looks much more up for the task of starting in the NBA than Hawes does. Hes in his 2nd year in the league and is a 14/9 guy. The fact that theyre so far apart makes it annoying to hear "them" and "they".

Calm down buckaroo - I created the thread for people to talk about both. I broke down my thoughts of each player individually. Others are doing the same..

 

[JoMama]

Hawes is regressing as a player and Thompson is a head case with great potential. Hawes isn't tough enough in the paint and he's a lousy rebounder. He's no athlete, either. Trade Hawes at the first opportunity and get JT some professional help. JT may just need some "man training" as Judge Joe Brown calls it.

 

[tradepeja]

Requesting name change to 'tradespencer'

 

[JoMama]

requesting Name Change To 'tradespencer'

Lol!!

 

[dbfish]

The biggest problem with our young bigs other than letting the refs get to them is that neither one of them is very good at finishing at the rim. They will make a move where they are in position to go strong to the hoop and then just throw up some lame looking layup that hits the rim or gets blocked way too often. As has been mentioned before maybe a big man coaching change should happen.

 

[Kingster]

Hawes - We might have to wait until next year to make a judgement. I think he's been hurt more than anyone on this team by the coaching carousel. I want to see what happens after he gets instructions from Westphal on his summer work-out program; then I'll make a judgement. If he gets 10% stronger a lot of these chippies are going in the hole rather than lip out.

Thompson - He just needs to continue to work on his low post footwork. And stop dribbling in the post. I see improvement, but at this moment in time it seems pretty slow. Give him a week or two and everybody might be raving about how good he can be. It's just the ups and downs of a young big.

 

[JoMama]

Thompson fits the physical mold of the modern NBA center - runs the floor, mobile, athletic, can score inside and with mid-range jumper, good rebounder.
Start JT at center and have Hawes come off the bench until a trade can be consumated. Big, slow centers like Hawes, who can't really rebound with consistency and doesn't bang underneath, hurt more than help the Kings' offense. Plus Hawes' defense is a crap shoot from night to night. Maybe he's just in a slump but he seems to be getting worse instead of improving as a player.

 

[bajaden]

Ok, lets try and look at the big picture framed from a basketball prespective. Both Hawes and Thompson are above average talent at their positions. Or maybe you would like to have Joel Anthony as your starting center. Both are works in progress. Hawes has been at it a year longer, but in my opinion was hampered by having to deal with revolving coaches. This year he's dealing with another new coaching system and trying to find his place in the system.

I get confused when people call him soft. If by that you mean he's not 7'2" and weighs 295 pounds, then yes, he's soft. But if you mean he's not willing to get in and bang, then I think your mistaken. I see him in the paint on defense. I see him trying to block shots. There is a difference between effort and result. Hawes may never be as strong as some of the other centers in the league. He's not going to get any taller unless he switches shoe brand. So he is what he is. He will get better with experience. The trick is to try and see the finished product in the future. Will that product work with what this team is trying to do. If not, then trade him at an opportune moment. If so, then be patient and wait.

Thompson is an entirely different situation. The NBA has adapted to his game. Thats what the NBA does. One team will play a player a certain way with success and wa la, the word spreads and that player starts to see that every night until he adapts as well. The minute Thompson gets the ball in the low post, the whole defense collapses on him. Right now, he's having a hard time playing with his back to the basket. He's constantly turning right into double teams and many times turning the ball over. I suggested several games ago that he would be more effective facing up where he can see the defense and then decide best how to attack from there. Either by putting the ball on the floor, or by shooting his little step back jumper if they don't come out and guard him. Its a learning experience, and he's only in his second year.

Defensively he has some problems. Some brought on by burning bridges last year with the ref's. He's a very passionate guy that wants to win. Unfortunately he lets his frustration reveal itself in ways that appear to show up the ref's. I don't think he really means to be disrespectful, but that doesn't matter. He has to learn to keep his emotions in check and not let it affect his play. Right now he's in a tough spot. He's being asked to play tough defense, and at the same time, stay out of foul trouble. While the ref's are more than willing to call every borderline foul against him. He needs to work hard to get back into the good graces of the ref's.

He's a 6'11" PF with a lot of skills. He runs the floor extremely well, and he's very durable. In my opinon he's still a good year and a half away from really coming into his own. But I think he can pretty damm good once the light goes on. Players with his size and attributes combined with a very good work ethic are hard to find. So I wouldn't be hasty on any decisions with him. I would stay patient.

I think Hawes needs to show some dramatic improvment by years end. I'm not saying that he needs to be the, be all, end all. But he needs to show that he's going to be an important part of the team on the floor and not just on paper. He's still very young, and skilled. But that does have to translate into something at some point. I'm willing to cut him some slack because of all the coaching changes. The Kings don't need him to be a star. They just need him to be solid and consistant.

 

[bajaden]

Hawes - We might have to wait until next year to make a judgement. I think he's been hurt more than anyone on this team by the coaching carousel. I want to see what happens after he gets instructions from Westphal on his summer work-out program; then I'll make a judgement. If he gets 10% stronger a lot of these chippies are going in the hole rather than lip out.

Thompson - He just needs to continue to work on his low post footwork. And stop dribbling in the post. I see improvement, but at this moment in time it seems pretty slow. Give him a week or two and everybody might be raving about how good he can be. It's just the ups and downs of a young big.

Ditto!

 

[PoundForPound]

Ok, lets try and look at the big picture framed from a basketball prespective. Both Hawes and Thompson are above average talent at their positions.

More like a delusional perspective. Being above average means being able to start and produce accordingly, which these guys (mainly spencer) have trouble doing! sometimes i wonder if people even watch the games. Stop blaming it on the coaching staff. You can't teach hustle, the desire to throw it down every once in a while, or the motivation to make the right play. That comes from within. Sure, people can try to motivate you and push you, but in the end it's all on you. Hawes needs to grow some cojones and stop being so soft.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

1 thing I want to note that we consistently forget

Hawes is a 21 year old, 3rd year player

JT is a 23 year old, 2nd year player

 

[PoundForPound]

1 thing I want to note that we consistently forget

Hawes is a 21 year old, 3rd year player

JT is a 23 year old, 2nd year player

your point?

 

[rainmaker]

1 thing I want to note that we consistently forget

Hawes is a 21 year old, 3rd year player

JT is a 23 year old, 2nd year player

Exactly. I got your point. Don't know how anyone who knows anything about the nba wouldn't get your point.

These guys are not anywhere close to fulfilling their potential. Hell, Hawes should still be in college.

 

[PoundForPound]

Exactly. I got your point. Don't know how anyone who knows anything about the nba wouldn't get your point.

These guys are not anywhere close to fulfilling their potential. Hell, Hawes should still be in college.

So that makes it ok for them to be sucking it up? This is NBA. People don't care how old you are. They're not going to take it easy on you just because you're 21. Oh, sure, they're pretty young, so let's just accept that they suck this season and not complain about it? Potential means nothing, my friend. Potential is not a guarantee, it is a hope, and a chance. Quite frankly, it's a chance that this young Kings team would be better off without. Spencer could be out of the league in 5 years, you don't know what's going to happen. Man, as if these guys are gonna be all-stars someday.

 

[bajaden]

So that makes it ok for them to be sucking it up? This is NBA. People don't care how old you are. They're not going to take it easy on you just because you're 21. Oh, sure, they're pretty young, so let's just accept that they suck this season and not complain about it? Potential means nothing, my friend. Potential is not a guarantee, it is a hope, and a chance. Quite frankly, it's a chance that this young Kings team would be better off without. Spencer could be out of the league in 5 years, you don't know what's going to happen. Man, as if these guys are gonna be all-stars someday.

Your a funny dude. You make no sense and throw crap anywhere you think it might stick. You ignore well thought out posts and call them delusional. Sorry dude, you've lost all credibility with me. I could respond to all your points but it would be a waste of my time. You either don't care for anyone else's point of view, or your incapable of understanding a different point of view. either way, I could care less. Adios Amigo..

 

[OptimusRhyme]

So that makes it ok for them to be sucking it up? This is NBA. People don't care how old you are. They're not going to take it easy on you just because you're 21. Oh, sure, they're pretty young, so let's just accept that they suck this season and not complain about it? Potential means nothing, my friend. Potential is not a guarantee, it is a hope, and a chance. Quite frankly, it's a chance that this young Kings team would be better off without. Spencer could be out of the league in 5 years, you don't know what's going to happen. Man, as if these guys are gonna be all-stars someday.

sure you can complain all you want. but the fact is hawes is not even close to maximizing his skillset, which we have all seen in numerous games.
yah theres no guarantee that he will be able to put that skillset into effect every game in the future.. but him learning to utilize his skillset is a chance im willing to take considering ive seen him play like an all star center on multiple occasions and add in the fact that he is as old as me and right there you have good reason to think that he will succeed. i dont know your age but when your 21 the sky is the limit for watever you want to be able to accomplish physically or mentally.

big deal he has sucked this year, beno sucked last year and is the exact opposite this year. players learn and adapt.
you live and you learn, you play and you learn.. its pretty simple