Our defense is better than you think (and other thoughts)

[LWP777]

Yes, I know I'll likely get bashed for this opinion, but I believe it to be true. The Kings defense is actually much better than what it was under Paul Westphal. Players back then weren't even running back on defense let alone trying to lock a team down during a half court possession. Keith Smart has successfully made this team one of the best running teams in the league. When you run all the time you are going to create more possessions for yourself AND your opponent. That is going to increase scoring so looking at the ppg averages is not a good barometer of how good we are defensively.

I'm not suggesting that we are a GOOD defensive team, because we're not. Our opponent's FG % will tell you that. But we do have moments now when we actually do play some pretty good half court defense. We are rotating well, getting a lot of steals, and blocking shots despite not having legit shot blocker on the team. We are actually trying believe it or not! It's not a question of effort like it was earlier in the year.

The reason why we are losing is because we are young and don't know how to win yet. We don't make the right plays when we need to. We dribble the ball out of bounds during key possessions in crunch time. We fail to make FT's when it counts. We get stupid technical fouls in the 4th quarter and then end up losing by a point. These are the things that good teams don't do. We are one of the youngest teams in the league (if not the youngest) and most of our core, high-minute players are in their 1st - 3rd years.

We've seen tremendous improvements made since Smart took over. DMC is beasting. IT might be the #2 rookie in the league. I mean, seriously, who would have ever thought that early in January? JT is absolutely playing out of his mind. He's playing like the big man we always wanted him to be. Thornton, even with his faults, is playing like he did towards the end of last year. He wasn't even close to that under PW. Even our scrubs -- Salmons, Donte, Cisco, Hayes are playing better. It's not Smart's fault that even though those particular players are playing better they are still marginal NBA players. He didn't put the roster together.

Players now know their roles. They are playing and acting like a TEAM. They cheer for one another on the bench. They are exciting to watch now. We are finally starting to see a nucleus develop before our eyes. Yet, we complain that they don't play defense. We complain that IT, the last pick in the draft, shoots too much despite completely outplaying MVP candidate Tony Parker last night on BOTH ends of the floor. We all need to settle down and give some credit to Keith Smart. Don't forget some of the players that he is forced to use on a nightly basis -- Salmons, Greene, Cisco, Outlaw, Hayes, Jimmer. Basically half his roster is made up of terrible NBA players.

We need to keep things in perspective....

 

[bajaden]

Yes, I know I'll likely get bashed for this opinion, but I believe it to be true. The Kings defense is actually much better than what it was under Paul Westphal. Players back then weren't even running back on defense let alone trying to lock a team down during a half court possession. Keith Smart has successfully made this team one of the best running teams in the league. When you run all the time you are going to create more possessions for yourself AND your opponent. That is going to increase scoring so looking at the ppg averages is not a good barometer of how good we are defensively.

I'm not suggesting that we are a GOOD defensive team, because we're not. Our opponent's FG % will tell you that. But we do have moments now when we actually do play some pretty good half court defense. We are rotating well, getting a lot of steals, and blocking shots despite not having legit shot blocker on the team. We are actually trying believe it or not! It's not a question of effort like it was earlier in the year.

The reason why we are losing is because we are young and don't know how to win yet. We don't make the right plays when we need to. We dribble the ball out of bounds during key possessions in crunch time. We fail to make FT's when it counts. We get stupid technical fouls in the 4th quarter and then end up losing by a point. These are the things that good teams don't do. We are one of the youngest teams in the league (if not the youngest) and most of our core, high-minute players are in their 1st - 3rd years.

We've seen tremendous improvements made since Smart took over. DMC is beasting. IT might be the #2 rookie in the league. I mean, seriously, who would have ever thought that early in January? JT is absolutely playing out of his mind. He's playing like the big man we always wanted him to be. Thornton, even with his faults, is playing like he did towards the end of last year. He wasn't even close to that under PW. Even our scrubs -- Salmons, Donte, Cisco, Hayes are playing better. It's not Smart's fault that even though those particular players are playing better they are still marginal NBA players. He didn't put the roster together.

Players now know their roles. They are playing and acting like a TEAM. They cheer for one another on the bench. They are exciting to watch now. We are finally starting to see a nucleus develop before our eyes. Yet, we complain that they don't play defense. We complain that IT, the last pick in the draft, shoots too much despite completely outplaying MVP candidate Tony Parker last night on BOTH ends of the floor. We all need to settle down and give some credit to Keith Smart. Don't forget some of the players that he is forced to use on a nightly basis -- Salmons, Greene, Cisco, Outlaw, Hayes, Jimmer. Basically half his roster is made up of terrible NBA players.

We need to keep things in perspective....

I agree with you. Our defense is improving. I also think it should be noted, that the Kings are playing a more uptempo game. They're pushing the ball whenever possible. One of the results of that type of game, is that allows for more shots in the game. And by both teams. Thus, your going to have higher scores by both teams. So the only defining number is point deferencial. My point is, that if you end up beating a team by the score of 129 to 109, that doesn't mean you played bad defense, it means that both teams took more shots than normal.

Cousins takes a lot of heat on this fourm for poor defense, but in reality, when matched up against a player of similar size and ability, he does a pretty good job of defending them. I'm always amused by people that will criticize a center for not stopping a John Wall or a Derrick Rose. When if fact, that was the responsibility of his teams PG. And when he does rotate and stop the ball, he then gets criticized for his man scoring behind his back. Its sort of a lose/lose situation with many people. Cousins is learning, and he's getting better. No he's not a prolific shotblocker. But you know what, probably 75% of the teams in the NBA don't have a prolific shotblocker. And many of those teams are contenders. So its not an excuse to be bad.

 

[sdballer]

Yes, I know I'll likely get bashed for this opinion, but I believe it to be true. The Kings defense is actually much better than what it was under Paul Westphal. Players back then weren't even running back on defense let alone trying to lock a team down during a half court possession. Keith Smart has successfully made this team one of the best running teams in the league. When you run all the time you are going to create more possessions for yourself AND your opponent. That is going to increase scoring so looking at the ppg averages is not a good barometer of how good we are defensively.

I'm not suggesting that we are a GOOD defensive team, because we're not. Our opponent's FG % will tell you that. But we do have moments now when we actually do play some pretty good half court defense. We are rotating well, getting a lot of steals, and blocking shots despite not having legit shot blocker on the team. We are actually trying believe it or not! It's not a question of effort like it was earlier in the year.

The reason why we are losing is because we are young and don't know how to win yet. We don't make the right plays when we need to. We dribble the ball out of bounds during key possessions in crunch time. We fail to make FT's when it counts. We get stupid technical fouls in the 4th quarter and then end up losing by a point. These are the things that good teams don't do. We are one of the youngest teams in the league (if not the youngest) and most of our core, high-minute players are in their 1st - 3rd years.

We've seen tremendous improvements made since Smart took over. DMC is beasting. IT might be the #2 rookie in the league. I mean, seriously, who would have ever thought that early in January? JT is absolutely playing out of his mind. He's playing like the big man we always wanted him to be. Thornton, even with his faults, is playing like he did towards the end of last year. He wasn't even close to that under PW. Even our scrubs -- Salmons, Donte, Cisco, Hayes are playing better. It's not Smart's fault that even though those particular players are playing better they are still marginal NBA players. He didn't put the roster together.

Players now know their roles. They are playing and acting like a TEAM. They cheer for one another on the bench. They are exciting to watch now. We are finally starting to see a nucleus develop before our eyes. Yet, we complain that they don't play defense. We complain that IT, the last pick in the draft, shoots too much despite completely outplaying MVP candidate Tony Parker last night on BOTH ends of the floor. We all need to settle down and give some credit to Keith Smart. Don't forget some of the players that he is forced to use on a nightly basis -- Salmons, Greene, Cisco, Outlaw, Hayes, Jimmer. Basically half his roster is made up of terrible NBA players.

We need to keep things in perspective....

Maybe the effort is improved but the numbers are alarming:

Last in ppg allowed, points in the paint allowed, fastbreak points allowed. 3rd to last in def effeciency and fg%.

 

[LWP777]

Maybe the effort is improved but the numbers are alarming:

Last in ppg allowed, points in the paint allowed, fastbreak points allowed. 3rd to last in def effeciency and fg%.

Pretty much every stat you mention except for FG% is a result of the Kings pushing the ball up the court nearly every possession. Remember, if the Kings don't use a lot of the shot clock then the other team will get many more possessions thus score more points (including more points in the paint and fast break points as you mentioned).

 

[sdballer]

Yes and no. A fast paced game can contribute to negative team defense stats but generally only when you are a poorer defensive club to begin with. The top ten teams in scoring this year are okc, denver, san antonio, miami, minn, utah, milwaukee, houston, gs, and us. Now the defensive stats we both mentioned are at the bottom of the league for us, gs, utah, denver and minn but not so for okc, sa, miami and to a lesser degree houston.

Bottom line, if you are a good team scoring a lot of points usually just leads to a higher point differential. A bad team just leads to higher scoring losss.

 

[Bricklayer]

Now for the big, cold, splash of water to the proceedings.


Here are the numbers of our "improving defense" over the past 10 games:

SAS 49-91 117
HOU 43-89 113
GSW 43-88 111
UTH 43-91 103
MEM 43-90 110
MIN 38-92 99
BOS 36-80 95
DET 50-86 124
GSW 46-91 115
ATL 42-82 106
-------------------
433-880 1093
.492 109.3ppg


Over the past 10 games, most of them at home mind you, where we are a much better team, teams have shot 49.2% from the field against us, and scored 109.3ppg. If that's an uptick then its time to just give the team to Anaheim and start watching arena football, or whatever the second largest pro team is in Sacto. To give you an idea of how NOT getting better that is, just ran through ESPN's team defensive stats, which they keep back through 99-00, and there has not been a single team which allowed .492 shooting over a full season this entire century.

And here, let me copy over some info from my statistical threads earlier in the season for comparison:

Opponent FG%
Games 01-07: .485 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 08-14: .471 NBA Rank: 28th
Games 15-23: .458 NBA Rank: 26th
Games 24-29: .473 NBA Rank: 28th
Games 30-33: .464 NBA Rank: 26th
Games 34-40: .483 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 41-50: .492 NBA Rank: 30th

Points Against
Games 01-07: 102.4 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 08-14: 101.1 NBA Rank: 29th
Games 15-23: 101.3 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 24-29: 99.7 NBA Rank: 25th
Games 30-33: 108.5 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 34-40: 104.1 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 41-50: 109.3 NBA Rank: 30th

So sorry to splash cold water after you took the time to make a hopeful thread and all, but its just not true. We're not only the worst, we are the worst by a TON. There was modest improvement back before we went small. But after we smallballed, we fell completely out of contact with the rest of the league. You turn on any game on league pass. Any game, involving any single team in the NBA not named the Kings, and you see better defense. Normally FAR better defense.

Now here, if you want to scrounge around for a positive, you can't do it with our "D". Our defense is humiliating. But what you can do is thank Jason Thompson for this little stat:

Rebouding Differential
Games 01-07: -5.6 NBA Rank: 30th (no JT, fighting with Cuz)
Games 08-14: -0.3 NBA Rank: 19th
Games 15-23: -1.1 NBA Rank: 21st
Games 24-29: -0.8 NBA Rank: 21st
Games 30-33: -1.8 NBA Rank: 22nd
Games 34-40: -2.7 NBA Rank: 25th
Games 41-50:+1.4 NBA Rank: 11th (JT taken over by pod person)

 

[kingsnation]

Now for the big, cold, splash of water to the proceedings.

Here are the numbers of our "improving defense" over the past 10 games: ...

Thank you.

 

[est.1999]

Are you kidding me!?

 

[Kingster]

Yes, I know I'll likely get bashed for this opinion, but I believe it to be true. The Kings defense is actually much better than what it was under Paul Westphal. Players back then weren't even running back on defense let alone trying to lock a team down during a half court possession. Keith Smart has successfully made this team one of the best running teams in the league. When you run all the time you are going to create more possessions for yourself AND your opponent. That is going to increase scoring so looking at the ppg averages is not a good barometer of how good we are defensively.

I'm not suggesting that we are a GOOD defensive team, because we're not. Our opponent's FG % will tell you that. But we do have moments now when we actually do play some pretty good half court defense. We are rotating well, getting a lot of steals, and blocking shots despite not having legit shot blocker on the team. We are actually trying believe it or not! It's not a question of effort like it was earlier in the year.

The reason why we are losing is because we are young and don't know how to win yet. We don't make the right plays when we need to. We dribble the ball out of bounds during key possessions in crunch time. We fail to make FT's when it counts. We get stupid technical fouls in the 4th quarter and then end up losing by a point. These are the things that good teams don't do. We are one of the youngest teams in the league (if not the youngest) and most of our core, high-minute players are in their 1st - 3rd years.

We've seen tremendous improvements made since Smart took over. DMC is beasting. IT might be the #2 rookie in the league. I mean, seriously, who would have ever thought that early in January? JT is absolutely playing out of his mind. He's playing like the big man we always wanted him to be. Thornton, even with his faults, is playing like he did towards the end of last year. He wasn't even close to that under PW. Even our scrubs -- Salmons, Donte, Cisco, Hayes are playing better. It's not Smart's fault that even though those particular players are playing better they are still marginal NBA players. He didn't put the roster together.

Players now know their roles. They are playing and acting like a TEAM. They cheer for one another on the bench. They are exciting to watch now. We are finally starting to see a nucleus develop before our eyes. Yet, we complain that they don't play defense. We complain that IT, the last pick in the draft, shoots too much despite completely outplaying MVP candidate Tony Parker last night on BOTH ends of the floor. We all need to settle down and give some credit to Keith Smart. Don't forget some of the players that he is forced to use on a nightly basis -- Salmons, Greene, Cisco, Outlaw, Hayes, Jimmer. Basically half his roster is made up of terrible NBA players.

We need to keep things in perspective....

Fantastic post!

 

[Kingster]

Yes, I know I'll likely get bashed for this opinion, but I believe it to be true. The Kings defense is actually much better than what it was under Paul Westphal. Players back then weren't even running back on defense let alone trying to lock a team down during a half court possession. Keith Smart has successfully made this team one of the best running teams in the league. When you run all the time you are going to create more possessions for yourself AND your opponent. That is going to increase scoring so looking at the ppg averages is not a good barometer of how good we are defensively.

I'm not suggesting that we are a GOOD defensive team, because we're not. Our opponent's FG % will tell you that. But we do have moments now when we actually do play some pretty good half court defense. We are rotating well, getting a lot of steals, and blocking shots despite not having legit shot blocker on the team. We are actually trying believe it or not! It's not a question of effort like it was earlier in the year.

The reason why we are losing is because we are young and don't know how to win yet. We don't make the right plays when we need to. We dribble the ball out of bounds during key possessions in crunch time. We fail to make FT's when it counts. We get stupid technical fouls in the 4th quarter and then end up losing by a point. These are the things that good teams don't do. We are one of the youngest teams in the league (if not the youngest) and most of our core, high-minute players are in their 1st - 3rd years.

We've seen tremendous improvements made since Smart took over. DMC is beasting. IT might be the #2 rookie in the league. I mean, seriously, who would have ever thought that early in January? JT is absolutely playing out of his mind. He's playing like the big man we always wanted him to be. Thornton, even with his faults, is playing like he did towards the end of last year. He wasn't even close to that under PW. Even our scrubs -- Salmons, Donte, Cisco, Hayes are playing better. It's not Smart's fault that even though those particular players are playing better they are still marginal NBA players. He didn't put the roster together.

Players now know their roles. They are playing and acting like a TEAM. They cheer for one another on the bench. They are exciting to watch now. We are finally starting to see a nucleus develop before our eyes. Yet, we complain that they don't play defense. We complain that IT, the last pick in the draft, shoots too much despite completely outplaying MVP candidate Tony Parker last night on BOTH ends of the floor. We all need to settle down and give some credit to Keith Smart. Don't forget some of the players that he is forced to use on a nightly basis -- Salmons, Greene, Cisco, Outlaw, Hayes, Jimmer. Basically half his roster is made up of terrible NBA players.

We need to keep things in perspective....

Fantastic post!

 

[Goo]

Now for the big, cold, splash of water to the proceedings.

You gotta love Bricklayer

 

[Padrino]

Now for the big, cold, splash of water to the proceedings.


Here are the numbers of our "improving defense" over the past 10 games:

SAS 49-91 117
HOU 43-89 113
GSW 43-88 111
UTH 43-91 103
MEM 43-90 110
MIN 38-92 99
BOS 36-80 95
DET 50-86 124
GSW 46-91 115
ATL 42-82 106
-------------------
433-880 1093
.492 109.3ppg


Over the past 10 games, most of them at home mind you, where we are a much better team, teams have shot 49.2% from the field against us, and scored 109.3ppg. If that's an uptick then its time to just give the team to Anaheim and start watching arena football, or whatever the second largest pro team is in Sacto. To give you an idea of how NOT getting better that is, just ran through ESPN's team defensive stats, which they keep back through 99-00, and there has not been a single team which allowed .492 shooting over a full season this entire century.

And here, let me copy over some info from my statistical threads earlier in the season for comparison:

Opponent FG%
Games 01-07: .485 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 08-14: .471 NBA Rank: 28th
Games 15-23: .458 NBA Rank: 26th
Games 24-29: .473 NBA Rank: 28th
Games 30-33: .464 NBA Rank: 26th
Games 34-40: .483 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 41-50: .492 NBA Rank: 30th

Points Against
Games 01-07: 102.4 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 08-14: 101.1 NBA Rank: 29th
Games 15-23: 101.3 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 24-29: 99.7 NBA Rank: 25th
Games 30-33: 108.5 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 34-40: 104.1 NBA Rank: 30th
Games 41-50: 109.3 NBA Rank: 30th

So sorry to splash cold water after you took the time to make a hopeful thread and all, but its just not true. We're not only the worst, we are the worst by a TON. There was modest improvement back before we went small. But after we smallballed, we fell completely out of contact with the rest of the league. You turn on any game on league pass. Any game, involving any single team in the NBA not named the Kings, and you see better defense. Normally FAR better defense.

Now here, if you want to scrounge around for a positive, you can't do it with our "D". Our defense is humiliating. But what you can do is thank Jason Thompson for this little stat:

Rebouding Differential
Games 01-07: -5.6 NBA Rank: 30th (no JT, fighting with Cuz)
Games 08-14: -0.3 NBA Rank: 19th
Games 15-23: -1.1 NBA Rank: 21st
Games 24-29: -0.8 NBA Rank: 21st
Games 30-33: -1.8 NBA Rank: 22nd
Games 34-40: -2.7 NBA Rank: 25th
Games 41-50:+1.4 NBA Rank: 11th (JT taken over by pod person)

while i can appreciate the sentiment in the original post, i have to agree with brick. the statistics simply DO NOT bear out even the slightest of defensive improvements. i know i'm one of the kingsfans.com posters who constantly megaphones against the use of smallball, but one need only look at the above for evidence that the kings are BY FAR the worst defensive team in the nba since smart altered his starting lineup. its alarming, really, just how bad they've become on that end. and if it weren't for our two trees starting at PF and C, the kings wouldn't be able to get a rebound, either, which is, quite literally, the ONLY thing that keeps them in games. well, that and the number of steals they get. i've noted before that the kings have become one of the handsiest teams in the nba, and its mostly been a plus. however, as an overarching defensive philosophy, its horrifyingly thin. the kings can rebound, and they can swipe at the ball. but when it comes to actually playing consistent and honest man defense, the kings are in the basement of the nba. they're team defense is no better, as exceedingly poor rotation in the last couple of games has shown us...

 

[The_Jamal]

while i can appreciate the sentiment in the original post, i have to agree with brick. the statistics simply DO NOT bear out even the slightest of defensive improvements. i know i'm one of the kingsfans.com posters who constantly megaphones against the use of smallball, but one need only look at the above for evidence that the kings are BY FAR the worst defensive team in the nba since smart altered his starting lineup. its alarming, really, just how bad they've become on that end. and if it weren't for our two trees starting at PF and C, the kings wouldn't be able to get a rebound, either, which is, quite literally, the ONLY thing that keeps them in games. well, that and the number of steals they get. i've noted before that the kings have become one of the handsiest teams in the nba, and its mostly been a plus. however, as an overarching defensive philosophy, its horrifyingly thin. the kings can rebound, and they can swipe at the ball. but when it comes to actually playing consistent and honest man defense, the kings are in the basement of the nba. they're team defense is no better, as exceedingly poor rotation in the last couple of games has shown us...

I agree, but lets not pretend we were some powerhouse defensive team and Smart ****ed up our championship defense. We were still essentially the worst defensive team in basketball under Westphal. The defense has gone to even more **** under Smart, but he's made the offense 2000000x better than it was.

 

[Section 101]

Now for the big, cold, splash of water to the proceedings.


Here are the numbers of our "improving defense" over the past 10 games:

SAS 49-91 117
HOU 43-89 113
GSW 43-88 111
UTH 43-91 103
MEM 43-90 110
MIN 38-92 99
BOS 36-80 95
DET 50-86 124
GSW 46-91 115
ATL 42-82 106
-------------------
433-880 1093
.492 109.3ppg

Since you seem to have plenty of time. How about a graph with point differential for the season?

 

[Section 101]

Off of NBA sortable team stats.

As I've said in other threads the actually ppg are meaningless. Doesn't matter whether you score 80 or 120 a game. The important number is the differential.

Kings season point differential -5.56
Last 10 games -1.1
Last 5 games -1.4

So I would say we have been in a lot more games recently than in the beginning of the year.

 

[Spike]

Off of NBA sortable team stats.

As I've said in other threads the actually ppg are meaningless. Doesn't matter whether you score 80 or 120 a game. The important number is the differential.

Kings season point differential -5.56
Last 10 games -1.1
Last 5 games -1.4

So I would say we have been in a lot more games recently than in the beginning of the year.

Point differential is nice to look at when you're looking at overall trends. Yeah, the games are closer. But on a game to game basis, we have to score 110 points in order to be competitive. The games should be closer - our schedule is technically supposed to be weaker. There's so much more breaking down on this team defensively, to hide it between point differential (which, by the way is going south again according to your stats) seems disingenuous at best.

 

[Spike]

Rebouding Differential
Games 01-07: -5.6 NBA Rank: 30th (no JT, fighting with Cuz)
Games 08-14: -0.3 NBA Rank: 19th
Games 15-23: -1.1 NBA Rank: 21st
Games 24-29: -0.8 NBA Rank: 21st
Games 30-33: -1.8 NBA Rank: 22nd
Games 34-40: -2.7 NBA Rank: 25th
Games 41-50:+1.4 NBA Rank: 11th (JT taken over by pod person)

My very quick, crude, eyeball analysis also shows it as we're improving on the offensive side of the glass, but not so much on the defensive. How much of this is related to jacking up so many shots and missing?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

---------------------------------------------------MIN-------OFF-----DEF----+/- --W--L
Evans-Thornton-Salmons-Thompson-Cousins (169.1)..(0.98)...(1.07)..(-31)...6...9
Thomas-Evans-Thornton-Thompson-Cousins (147.6)..(1.15)...(1.17)..(-5)....5....8


I think this is as clear as its going to get. Kind of lines up with what I said in another thread. Before IT was the starter our offense was decent and our defense was bad. After IT became the starter our offense became good and our defense got horrible.

Net result is nothing really. We are the same bad team.

Which is why I can't totally kill Smart for the lineup change, one way or the other. There is no GOOD solution, just two bad ones. Where my issues with Smart come up is with his IN GAME substitutions. We have left a lot of potential wins on the table because of his rotational mistakes.

 

[Spike]

---------------------------------------------------MIN-------OFF-----DEF----+/- --W--L
Evans-Thornton-Salmons-Thompson-Cousins (169.1)..(0.98)...(1.07)..(-31)...6...9
Thomas-Evans-Thornton-Thompson-Cousins (147.6)..(1.15)...(1.17)..(-5)....5....8


I think this is as clear as its going to get. Kind of lines up with what I said in another thread. Before IT was the starter our offense was decent and our defense was bad. After IT became the starter our offense became good and our defense got horrible.

Net result is nothing really. We are the same bad team.

Which is why I can't totally kill Smart for the lineup change, one way or the other. There is no GOOD solution, just two bad ones. Where my issues with Smart come up is with his IN GAME substitutions. We have left a lot of potential wins on the table because of his rotational mistakes.

How much of that is from the Westphal days? I'm curious, because that should have some influence as well. I agree with your statement about the rotations - they've been downright awful at times.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Honestly, I don't think its IT's fault. If you ask me, it is more MTs fault. Sure he can drop 20 on you, but he can easily give up 20 on the end. And he gambles instead of playing defense. Which is why I personally think if anyone of our 5 should be a role player off the bench, it would be him.

 

[Section 101]

Point differential is nice to look at when you're looking at overall trends. Yeah, the games are closer. But on a game to game basis, we have to score 110 points in order to be competitive. The games should be closer - our schedule is technically supposed to be weaker. There's so much more breaking down on this team defensively, to hide it between point differential (which, by the way is going south again according to your stats) seems disingenuous at best.

But there is a huge different between being -1.4 and -5.5. That's about being a .500 team and a below .400 team or a 40 win team and a 30 win team.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

How much of that is from the Westphal days? I'm curious, because that should have some influence as well. I agree with your statement about the rotations - they've been downright awful at times.

Good point. To my surprise, none of those games came under Westphal.

In fact, Cousins and JT didn't start together at all until the 15th game of the season, and Westphal only lasted till game #7.

 

[Section 101]

Honestly, I don't think its IT's fault. If you ask me, it is more MTs fault. Sure he can drop 20 on you, but he can easily give up 20 on the end. And he gambles instead of playing defense. Which is why I personally think if anyone of our 5 should be a role player off the bench, it would be him.

They all gamble too much instead of getting back. IT and Evans are biggest ones in the open floor and around the paint. Cuz does it more at the start of the break trying to steal from the guards.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Honestly, I don't think its IT's fault. If you ask me, it is more MTs fault. Sure he can drop 20 on you, but he can easily give up 20 on the end. And he gambles instead of playing defense. Which is why I personally think if anyone of our 5 should be a role player off the bench, it would be him.

I just disagree. Marcus Thornton needs one of Evans/IT more than they need Marcus Thornton, if that makes sense.

I think both Evans and Thomas would be more effective coming in off the bench with the current makeup of this team. We already have about 10 million backup SG's and no backup ball handlers. Through Thornton into the mix of backup 2's with Jimmer/Salmons/Garcia/Williams ... The bench could use a facilitator/ball handler much more than another scoring guard.

With that being said, I still don't think any of them deserve to be benched, but my first choice would be Thomas.

 

[Spike]

I just disagree. Marcus Thornton needs one of Evans/IT more than they need Marcus Thornton, if that makes sense.

I think both Evans and Thomas would be more effective coming in off the bench with the current makeup of this team. We already have about 10 million backup SG's and no backup ball handlers. Through Thornton into the mix of backup 2's with Jimmer/Salmons/Garcia/Williams ... The bench could use a facilitator/ball handler much more than another scoring guard.

With that being said, I still don't think any of them deserve to be benched, but my first choice would be Thomas.

The IT/MT backcourt really makes things tough on defense, as has been pointed out in other threads (or is it this one - they're all starting to run together) because of their size. I really think the IT switch needs to happen in order for this team to be most efficient throughout the entire game, not just in the first 5 minutes.

 

[Gilles]

---------------------------------------------------MIN-------OFF-----DEF----+/- --W--L
Evans-Thornton-Salmons-Thompson-Cousins (169.1)..(0.98)...(1.07)..(-31)...6...9
Thomas-Evans-Thornton-Thompson-Cousins (147.6)..(1.15)...(1.17)..(-5)....5....8


I think this is as clear as its going to get. Kind of lines up with what I said in another thread. Before IT was the starter our offense was decent and our defense was bad. After IT became the starter our offense became good and our defense got horrible.

Net result is nothing really. We are the same bad team.

Which is why I can't totally kill Smart for the lineup change, one way or the other. There is no GOOD solution, just two bad ones. Where my issues with Smart come up is with his IN GAME substitutions. We have left a lot of potential wins on the table because of his rotational mistakes.

First they have Cousins playing 740 minutes in 20 most used lineups plus a few with lineups that stayed less than 8 minutes on the floor. Cousins got to 740 minutes played right about the time IT moved into the starting lineup. So in fact this sampling has no IT as a starter games. But it obviously has "suck balls" Salmons of the first half of the season.
Second w/l only means games this lineup was used since you already know games with IT starting are not included.

 

[Bricklayer]

But there is a huge different between being -1.4 and -5.5. That's about being a .500 team and a below .400 team or a 40 win team and a 30 win team.

Its also largely attributable to 8 of the last 10 games being home games. That's why its so damning the defnese hasn't gotten better, and in fact statistically has gotten worse. We just came off the easiest stretch of our season for a team that's 13-11 at home and 4-22 on the road.

 

[ppine]

LWP,

I emphatically agree. The stats are skewed due to the new pace. The Kings before Smart lost a lot of games by 20-30 points. Now they are in nearly all of them

 

[Section 101]

Its also largely attributable to 8 of the last 10 games being home games. That's why its so damning the defnese hasn't gotten better, and in fact statistically has gotten worse. We just came off the easiest stretch of our season for a team that's 13-11 at home and 4-22 on the road.

I agree it was a bad home stretch. But with the wacky scheduling this year I don't know how much that played a part. You have Denver a normally excellent home team at 15-12. The Hornets are 5-21 at home and 8-17 on the road. If we went by home record success this year we should be around 23-25 wins on the season.

We have the 2nd worst road record. Only the bobcats are worse at 3-22.

 

[Spike]

LWP,

I emphatically agree. The stats are skewed due to the new pace. The Kings before Smart lost a lot of games by 20-30 points. Now they are in nearly all of them

There's nothing skewy about these stats.