Ostertag Starter?

[BigWaxer]

To answer the poll NO....

But as a tag hater he played well tonight so I give him some props

 

[VF21]

Why should Ostertag start? It's simple.

1) IMHO, the Kings would not begin so many second quarters down by ten points if Ostertag was a starter.

2) He stops drives to the basket.

3) He blocks shots.

4) He rebounds.

5) He feeds rebounds to the guards.

6) He changes the game with physical roughness.

7) He tips in a lot of missed shots.

We don't need offense as much as defense.

Dog - I respectfully disagree.

The main thing about Tag is he simply cannot play major minutes. He does not have the stamina. Didn't you notice how winded he was at the end of the third quarter?

I'm not saying we don't need him. It's exactly the opposite. We need him to do those things you've indicated in all but the first point you've made. And we need him to do them late in the game - games are won at the end, not the beginning.

 

[Bad Boy Bo]

I'm not a big Tag fan, but... seeing how he handled James tonight, I think he's the only one that's capable. But start? Maybe not, but definately give him more minutes in this series.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yes, as soon as TAg came in we started cutting into the lead. That's why he's good OFF THE BENCH, not why he would be a good starter.

Do you not understand that TAG simply isn't in good enough condition to play an entire game?

Wouldn't you rather have him in reserve to help at the end instead of using him up at first and NOT having him in the stretch when he can do the most good?

P.S. You have to win 16 games to win the title. You have to win 4 in the first round, 4 in the second round, 4 in the WC finals and then 4 in the NBA finals. That adds up to 16, not 17.

I don't think anyone arguing for Tag to start is expecting him to play the whole game. I just want to see a little more rotation at the C position with Tag getting at least as many minutes tonight only earlier into the next game. Odds are he couldn't play the whole game anyways. It's only a matter of time when Jerome James and Otag get in foul trouble. I At least hope for Rick Adelman to bring in Tag to combat James. They are both fouling machines so at least they are equal in that concern.

 

[BK_KingsFan]

I think Tag is better coming off the bench. But I think Tag and Brad on the court at the same time was extremely effective. I would defenitely love to see more of that. Alot better than that 'Corliss playing Center' bull****.

 

[VF21]

STK - The poll is pretty specific. It says "Should Tag take Skinner's starting position?"

What I'm trying to point out to people is that you don't want to start everyone simply because they can provide a spark, ESPECIALLY if they are not in top-notch condition.

It should be about playing him when he can be the most effective, depending upon who the Sonics have on the court. And IMHO it should be about making sure he has enough gas in the tank at the end of the game, when his ability to grab that extra board or block that crucial shot or simply clog the lane and force the Sonics to stay at the perimeter are the most effective.

If you noticed, twice tonight Tag was pulled out of the center to double on Allen, and both times the Sonics quickly went inside and scored. We need Tag to stay inside - not as another perimeter guard. And we need him able to breathe and get up and down the court at the end of the game when things are most tense and most critical.

This whole idea of changing starters is usually brought up whenever one of our bench players has a good game. I honestly believe some people just don't get the concept that some players ARE role players. They are supposed to fill a role coming off the bench. Tag is perfect at that, at least at this point in his career and with the limitations we are all well aware of.

 

[Twix]

Tag had a great game...but I don't think I'll be saying he should start. I voted No, btw.

 

[kennadog]

Well Brad is our starting center. He's just going to get better every day. However, I did like Brad and Tag in there together tonight. They dun good.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Dog - I respectfully disagree.

The main thing about Tag is he simply cannot play major minutes. He does not have the stamina. Didn't you notice how winded he was at the end of the third quarter?

I'm not saying we don't need him. It's exactly the opposite. We need him to do those things you've indicated in all but the first point you've made. And we need him to do them late in the game - games are won at the end, not the beginning.

Is there some kind of unwritten rule that I'm unaware of which says that starters must play 30+ minutes? I mean, if Miller isn't ready to return to the starting lineup, is there any good reason why Adelman shouldn't start Ostertag and play him for five minutes before bringing in Miller or Skinner?

The fact that we don't have any defensive minded starters is a serious problem. All things being equal, I'd rather the Kings set a defensive tone at the very start of the game, not seven-to-ten minutes in. Playing head coach for a minute, I'd start Ostertag and play him for the first five minutes of the first quarter, and then sit him until late in the second quarter; rinse and repeat for the second half.

The Kings need to have interior help defense in the starting lineup, especially when we have an undesized SG trying to defend a much bigger All-Star. Skinner just doesn't get it done; as has been pointed out before, while Skinner gets his blocks, at 6'8" he doesn't exactly discourage the other team from driving the lane. We need somebody to start who's going to establish a "no layups, no dunks" mentality on defense right off the bat, not wait until after the other team has already become confident that they can go in whenever they want to.

 

[Alacron]

I voted no, because you don't change starting rotations based on who you're playing. Guys need to know their role. A great bench player can be a mediocre starter, and vice versa.

Besides, who starts is not as important as (a) who plays more minutes, and (b) who finishes. Tag should get about 10 minutes per half, if he's up to it. If he's not, give him 5 minutes in the first half and 12 in the second.

Personally, the way he's playing now, I say play him until he fouls out or passes out, whichever comes first.
~~

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I voted no, because you don't change starting rotations based on who you're playing...

Why not?

 

[bibbinator]

I voted no, because you don't change starting rotations based on who you're playing. Guys need to know their role. A great bench player can be a mediocre starter, and vice versa.

Besides, who starts is not as important as (a) who plays more minutes, and (b) who finishes. Tag should get about 10 minutes per half, if he's up to it. If he's not, give him 5 minutes in the first half and 12 in the second.

Personally, the way he's playing now, I say play him until he fouls out or passes out, whichever comes first.
~~

Kings should slow down their offensive sets so Tag can walk.

 

[VF21]

Is there some kind of unwritten rule that I'm unaware of which says that starters must play 30+ minutes? I mean, if Miller isn't ready to return to the starting lineup, is there any good reason why Adelman shouldn't start Ostertag and play him for five minutes before bringing in Miller or Skinner?

The fact that we don't have any defensive minded starters is a serious problem. All things being equal, I'd rather the Kings set a defensive tone at the very start of the game, not seven-to-ten minutes in. Playing head coach for a minute, I'd start Ostertag and play him for the first five minutes of the first quarter, and then sit him until late in the second quarter; rinse and repeat for the second half.

The Kings need to have interior help defense in the starting lineup, especially when we have an undesized SG trying to defend a much bigger All-Star. Skinner just doesn't get it done; as has been pointed out before, while Skinner gets his blocks, at 6'8" he doesn't exactly discourage the other team from driving the lane. We need somebody to start who's going to establish a "no layups, no dunks" mentality on defense right off the bat, not wait until after the other team has already become confident that they can go in whenever they want to.

No, of course there's not an unwritten rule you're not familiar with...

Is there a good reason Adelman shouldn't have Tag start and then bring in Miller or Skinner? Well, yes. After watching the game tonight, I can think of at least a couple but they're no more cast in stone than your concept that we should establish a "no layups, no dunks" mentality at the outset. Under that guideline, we wouldn't have Miller as our starter...

My main objection to this is that whenever a role player has a good night, someone invariably decides they should become a starter. Granted, some people may think revolving door starters is a good idea but role players are role players for a reason. A lot of times it's because they aren't good enough to be the STARTERS. Starters are the main players - they're the A list. I didn't dream it up; that's the way things are in the NBA.

This person decided we should start Tag at the 5 over Skinner because he had one good night...as a role player coming off the bench when he was needed most.

It's going to be moot before long, because as soon as Adelman feels Brad can start, HE will start - and I don't think it will be too much longer.

 

[Alacron]

Why not?

Well, maybe if you're Don Nelson. But even he had Van Exel coming off the bench to destroy us. In Bobby's heyday he was still the 6th man.

You need impact players coming off the bench. How much of an impact Bobby will bring is still questionable at this point. Who else do we have... Corliss, Darius, House? None of those guys are going to be game-changers against Seattle. Tag is.
~~

 

[Bricklayer]

I would. Aginst this frontline tag/Miller actually may be the answer. But You could also go witha giant/twerp Tag/Thomas starting unit, and then Miller/Skinner off the bench to keep at least 1 7 footer and 1 shotblocker in there at all times. Of course then Darius gets squeezed, but we have too many bodeis and not enough minutes and its the playoffs -- time to play whoever it takes to win.

 

[VF21]

You would start Tag?

I just don't see that starting him is the right thing to do. I would much rather ration his time towards the end of quarters and mostly in the second half.

My thought is that if you use him too early you run the real and significant risk of him running out of gas at the end when you might need him the most.

 

[Alacron]

My main objection to this is that whenever a role player has a good night, someone invariably decides they should become a starter. Granted, some people may think revolving door starters is a good idea but role players are role players for a reason.

....

It's going to be moot before long, because as soon as Adelman feels Brad can start, HE will start - and I don't think it will be too much longer.

Huzzah (old-timey cheer) to all of the above!
~~

 

[HndsmCelt]

Does anyone else think it's prety freeking funny that last summer when GP let Vlade go and then signed Tag this forum was covered with threads about how dumb that was, and about how much Tag sucked. (Yes some of us DID say we would need him for the paly offs) Now here we are after teh firs paly off game and we get a thread calling for Tag to start...

 

[Alacron]

I would. Aginst this frontline tag/Miller actually may be the answer. But You could also go witha giant/twerp Tag/Thomas starting unit, and then Miller/Skinner off the bench to keep at least 1 7 footer and 1 shotblocker in there at all times. Of course then Darius gets squeezed, but we have too many bodeis and not enough minutes and its the playoffs -- time to play whoever it takes to win.

Personally, I would like to keep 1 defensive/rebounding big guy and 1 shooting big guy out there at all times. Brad can fill either role (at least against Seattle). Skinner can be a defensive guy, but only against a non- Jerome James lineup. So acceptable combinations could be: Tag/Miller, Tag/Thomas, Tag/Darius, Skinner/Thomas, Skinner/Darius, Miller/Thomas, Miller/Darius, Miller/Skinner. But there are plenty of good combinations without resorting to Thomas/Corliss.
~~

 

[Bricklayer]

You would start Tag?

I just don't see that starting him is the right thing to do. I would much rather ration his time towards the end of quarters and mostly in the second half.

My thought is that if you use him too early you run the real and significant risk of him running out of gas at the end when you might need him the most.

Well, thinking would be this: Tag started for years and years in Utah -- this is a guy with something like 300 career starts. He's inconsistent, and he really doesn't have the stamina to give you 35min a night, but he can probably give you 20-25 as a starter/platooner. And that way his minutes are guaranteed as is whatever impact his size makes. Just don't see any reason to allow Jerome James to pound us just based on size alone, and if you come out and confront him from the opening tip, think there's a good chance he never gets into rhythm and becomes a probelm.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Yes. Wouldn't it make more sense to match up the 7 foot Tag against the 7ft Jerome and the 6'8" Skinner against the 6'8" Fortson??

A 7 game series is about adjustments. It's pretty simple, really. Evolve or lose.

 

[SIR HENRY 8]

Well, thinking would be this: Tag started for years and years in Utah -- this is a guy with something like 300 career starts. He's inconsistent, and he really doesn't have the stamina to give you 35min a night, but he can probably give you 20-25 as a starter/platooner. And that way his minutes are guaranteed as is whatever impact his size makes. Just don't see any reason to allow Jerome James to pound us just based on size alone, and if you come out and confront him from the opening tip, think there's a good chance he never gets into rhythm and becomes a probelm.

Hear-hear,I'd say play him 5-6 min. a 1/4,he does have a way of closing the diamond lane to the hoop,size DOES matter..

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, maybe if you're Don Nelson.

Or Eddie Jordan. Or Rick Carlisle. Heck, especiially Carlisle; did you ever notice how he starts Jeff Foster at center, unless he was playing a team that had a bigger center, and then he started Scot Pollard (or Dale Davis after signing him)? That's because Foster, while a solid defensive center and excellent offensive rebounder, is probably the worst shot-blocking center in the entire league (yes, even worse than Miller). Why shouldn't Adelman adjust our lineup if he thinks it'll get results? Make them play to you, not the other way around.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Brick and LP are both reading my mind on this one. Tag has more play off experience as a starting center than any one in the NBA other than Shaq... use it. And Skinner's no nonsense play and comprable size could make a good match up with DFF... But these two good ideas do not work well together. I noted earlier with Skinner and Tag on the floor you loose lots of offense and neither of them has an outside shot so getting a high post presence is tough. Tag is a better passer than advertised, but who the hell is going to come out to challange him? I'd let him shoot the 15-20 footer all night long... same with Skinner. Thats the importance of Brad, Darius and Thomas... they force bigs out of the paint with outside shooting and pass to cutters very well.

 

[JB_kings]

Yes. Wouldn't it make more sense to match up the 7 foot Tag against the 7ft Jerome and the 6'8" Skinner against the 6'8" Fortson??

A 7 game series is about adjustments. It's pretty simple, really. Evolve or lose.

Every word true.
Playoffs are all about matchups and exploiting them. Tonight the Kings got exploited. You can't let Jerome James kill you when you have an answer.
In all honesty, Skinner's output for the last few weeks has been sub-par. I think Adleman has been patient waiting for him to pick up the pace. He gave him his chance in game 1. Time to adjust.

 

[hanchiho]

frankly i hope brad will be a starter

 

[SSBG]

I like TAG coming off the bench.......RA just needs to figure out WHEN he needs to come off the bench.

 

[tyrant]

I like TAG coming off the bench.......RA just needs to figure out WHEN he needs to come off the bench.

exactly. i think brad should start next game and use him for about 5 minutes in the first (depending on how he looks) and bring in greg.

 

[quick dog]

Dog - I respectfully disagree.

The main thing about Tag is he simply cannot play major minutes. He does not have the stamina. Didn't you notice how winded he was at the end of the third quarter?

I'm not saying we don't need him. It's exactly the opposite. We need him to do those things you've indicated in all but the first point you've made. And we need him to do them late in the game - games are won at the end, not the beginning.

The way I look at it is, if Tag were in the game for the first six minutes, the Kings would benefit from his defense. Other teams routinely explode on our guys in the first six minutes, then they get tired and slow down.

If Tag were in the game to bang them around and block shots during that phrenitic early period, then Skinner could come in and handle the physical challenge later. Skinner simply can't handle James, Evans, or Fortson. Their big guys will tire out also. We should use Tag to accomplish that. Tag would probably have three fouls in the first quarter, and gets so many fouls, he won't play more than 20 minutes anyhow.

The Tag strategy may not work against smaller forwards and centers.

 

[quick dog]

Is there some kind of unwritten rule that I'm unaware of which says that starters must play 30+ minutes? I mean, if Miller isn't ready to return to the starting lineup, is there any good reason why Adelman shouldn't start Ostertag and play him for five minutes before bringing in Miller or Skinner?

The fact that we don't have any defensive minded starters is a serious problem. All things being equal, I'd rather the Kings set a defensive tone at the very start of the game, not seven-to-ten minutes in. Playing head coach for a minute, I'd start Ostertag and play him for the first five minutes of the first quarter, and then sit him until late in the second quarter; rinse and repeat for the second half.

The Kings need to have interior help defense in the starting lineup, especially when we have an undesized SG trying to defend a much bigger All-Star. Skinner just doesn't get it done; as has been pointed out before, while Skinner gets his blocks, at 6'8" he doesn't exactly discourage the other team from driving the lane. We need somebody to start who's going to establish a "no layups, no dunks" mentality on defense right off the bat, not wait until after the other team has already become confident that they can go in whenever they want to.

I said almost the same thing in response to VF21s comment before I read this post. Obviously, I agree with you.