Orange County Register user comments

[RookieOfTheDay]

More than anything I think a lot of people would love to be with this team on the ride up but are tepid about having their hearts ripped out with the team moving a season or two before they take off.

Exactly! There has been an uneasy feeling among fans for a few years now that the team was going to end up gone. That has to have effected attendance and fan enthusiasm in general.

 

[BMiller52]

More than anything I think a lot of people would love to be with this team on the ride up but are tepid about having their hearts ripped out with the team moving a season or two before they take off.

Exactly. The fear of the team leaving led to a lot of people distancing themselves from the Kings by not buying tickets and only viewing from afar(tv) because they didn't want to get hurt.

 

[Gary]

Hard to call the OC fair weather fans when the Kings attendance in Sacramento has been really bad the past few years.

Tell this to fans that don't own 2 of the 5 sellout streaks in the history of the league. We have better fans up here.

 

[JB_kings]

The Kings attendance was a model for the league up until a few years ago. Top 5 in sellout streaks. Cant imagine why it would go down? Read all the responses here to see.

 

[Gary]

The Kings attendance was a model for the league up until a few years ago. Top 5 in sellout streaks. Cant imagine why it would go down? Read all the responses here to see.

What pisses me off the most out of everything is that they still want to push to get an arena built if the Kings leave.. Why? It's too late! Why would I want to be taxed more to pay for an arena when there is so much bad blood between myself (along with other die hard fans) and the retards we call our local government. Screw them and their arena.

Anyone catch the KCRA poll? Funny stuff.

http://www.kcra.com/surveyresults/27066669/detail.html

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

What pisses me off the most out of everything is that they still want to push to get an arena built if the Kings leave.. Why? It's too late! Why would I want to be taxed more to pay for an arena when there is so much bad blood between myself (along with other die hard fans) and the retards we call our local government. Screw them and their arena.

Anyone catch the KCRA poll? Funny stuff.

http://www.kcra.com/surveyresults/27066669/detail.html

Honestly, if The Kings leave, I'd rather not have a new arena. It would just be an expensive reminder that Sacramento lost The Kings because of its stagnant mentality and only got their **** together after it was too late.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

There are a lot of opportunities a new arena gives even without the Kings. When they move, Sacramento will have to move on and fight to be world class without them. I know it will be hard to know the Kings could have been playing there, but it helps to get over that by being able to watch Sharks games in person because they will travel a couple games a year up here I'm sure of it, or watch Metallica, or the NCAA championship, or high school playoffs, or get a job at a huge company because it was attracted by Sacramento's willingness to develop and host marquee events so it moved its headquarters to the capital. You'll always miss the Kings, but it will hurt less when these things start happening.

I can see that side of it. To me personally though, none of those things matter much. I can't stand hockey, I can see Metallica at ARCO if i want, or just drive to Oakland, and the idea of a few college or high school games just doesn't do much for me.

 

[kennadog]

We already know what we had in the Kings. But the Magoofs are just a bunch of lucky heirs who bought the team at the right time, when it was on the rise. They're bad businessmen who have lost much of their father's fortune and that's why they're in a position now where they need a quick fix like Anaheim. A more substantial, financially secure owner would have more leeway to work with Sacramento. The Magoofs are the worst thing that ever happened to the Kings.

That's just ridiculous. So the Maloofs are the only business men or people in the country that have suffered major losses during this economic disaster? Give me a break the break from reality your having. Two things the Mallofs have done bother me the most. Hiring two bad coaches and not tearing down the team for a rebuild faster.

The Maloofs were never really given the chance to really negotiate a deal with the city, so we may never know how much leeway they had or have. Sacramento has had 15 years, including a time when the Maloofs and the city were booming. The city part of this has always been the stumbling block for every proposal.

 

[kennadog]

There are a lot of opportunities a new arena gives even without the Kings. When they move, Sacramento will have to move on and fight to be world class without them. I know it will be hard to know the Kings could have been playing there, but it helps to get over that by being able to watch Sharks games in person because they will travel a couple games a year up here I'm sure of it, or watch Metallica, or the NCAA championship, or high school playoffs, or get a job at a huge company because it was attracted by Sacramento's willingness to develop and host marquee events so it moved its headquarters to the capital. You'll always miss the Kings, but it will hurt less when these things start happening.

The arena is apparently going to struggle along for a while, but it still has to be replaced and soon. Sacramento drops down as a destination for events. I don't really want to drive to the bay area for events. I did that in occassionally in the years before Arco, but its way more expensive and time-consuming. Rarely worth it.

By the way, the ice rink at Arco is literally decrepit, breaks down a lot and is expensive to repair when it does.

And I don't really give a d*mn what people in Anaheim or SoCal are saying. I did herar a rumor, now I can't remember, but I think it might have been somewhere in one of the threads, that Laker fans are planning to show up at the first home game in Anaheim in large numbers, all wearing Lakers jerseys or colors. I will NOT miss Laker fans.

 

[Larry David]

The Maloofs were never really given the chance to really negotiate a deal with the city, so we may never know how much leeway they had or have. Sacramento has had 15 years, including a time when the Maloofs and the city were booming. The city part of this has always been the stumbling block for every proposal.

Other than when ...

In 2004, when the city put $150 million on the table and proposed to cap costs at $350 and the Maloofs walked out of the meeting "blindsided." It should be noted that early reports have Taylor looking at something 350-400 and the city kicking in 200. No matter how the idea was presented, it was the first and only offer in this process by any party. The Maloofs had a chance to negotiate, but they took their ball and went home for 2 years. And when the returned, the city's cash surplus was gone. This was the best ... maybe the only shot to keep them here.

And they also helped cause the 2006 to 2008 delay. It was important for the Maloofs to support Q and R to the end. Because if it lost 60/40, the city wouldn't have a mandate to stay away. The Maloofs publicly pulled their support and money for Q and R because they didn't like some of the terms that were being negotiated. They punked a lot of leader right in front of everybody in the railyards ... when you do that ... people aren't rushing to work with you. And when nobody supports Q and R, it gets beat 80/20. At which point it become a political 3rd rail for a couple of years. The Maloofs didn't understand that at the time ... but thier actions ensured that - while plans for state funding could go forward - city funding was a dead duck for at least two years.

 

[kennadog]

Other than when ...

In 2004, when the city put $150 million on the table and proposed to cap costs at $350 and the Maloofs walked out of the meeting "blindsided." It should be noted that early reports have Taylor looking at something 350-400 and the city kicking in 200. No matter how the idea was presented, it was the first and only offer in this process by any party. The Maloofs had a chance to negotiate, but they took their ball and went home for 2 years. And when the returned, the city's cash surplus was gone. This was the best ... maybe the only shot to keep them here.

And they also helped cause the 2006 to 2008 delay. It was important for the Maloofs to support Q and R to the end. Because if it lost 60/40, the city wouldn't have a mandate to stay away. The Maloofs publicly pulled their support and money for Q and R because they didn't like some of the terms that were being negotiated. They punked a lot of leader right in front of everybody in the railyards ... when you do that ... people aren't rushing to work with you. And when nobody supports Q and R, it gets beat 80/20. At which point it become a political 3rd rail for a couple of years. The Maloofs didn't understand that at the time ... but thier actions ensured that - while plans for state funding could go forward - city funding was a dead duck for at least two years.

Not an entirely accurate statement of history. I work in government financing for various types of project funding. I've never seen any government entity essentially cap their contribution (unless its capped by regulation or law) before having the remotest idea of what you are going to build, where its going to be built and before you go through a negotiation process and come to a mutually agreeable deal. A city might set that limit in private negotiations with the party. That's why the Maloofs felt blindsided by the city. They were.

As to your cost comparison of an arena then vs. now? The costs back then would have been much higher. The drastic drop in land values, interest rates and construction costs is why it would be considerably cheaper now. Actually, its an ideal time to get a project built. You absolutely cannot compare a very rough estimate (no plans or specs or even site identified) in better times with today. My projects' bids have been coming in often under preliminary estimates the last couple of years.

As to Q & R. As reported in the Bee, the Maloofs and Stern backed off Q and R, because they had a meeting with Thomas (developer of the rail yards, then) and he told them the city had mislead the NBA and Thomas by saying they had all the infrastucture money committed. It turned out that at that point, they had very little money comitted to infrastructure and had no idea where they were going to get it. Without even knowing when the infrastructure could be funded, they had no clue of how long it would take, before they could actually start construction on a arena. And Q & R was tied, by the city, to the rail yard development.

Finally they did not take their ball and go home for two years. Stern sent Moag here to see if there was any way to get a deal done without city money. It took time to reasearch all possibilites and proposals and all they could come up with, as the best shot, was the convergence plan. The Maloofs paid Moag and for much of the work and studies done.

Only after that plan failed did the city step up with a real effort to find a solution, that wouldn't require rasing citizens taxes.

As a matter of fact, the Maloofs have spent several million dollars on sudies and consultants. How long should they keep paying for studies, when proposals go no where?

I'd believe the Maloofs were part of the problem except that Lukenbill asked for help financing an arena and failed. Its whay Arco II was such a cheapoly built project. Its laughably crappy, really. Built like warehouses are built. Thomas wanted help with a new arena and it failed. So you could say it's been a 26 year failure to get a decent arena built.

I would also be more likely to blame the Maloofs, if Sacramento hasn't shown time and time again that they prefer to go with "safe" projects and boring architectural and urban planning designs. I'm actually scared the city will blow their chance for something special in the rail yards. I'd be disappointed, but not surprised.

Now I'm not saying the Maloofs are blameless, because I think their biggest mistake all along has been not getting a really good public relations expert or possibly not listening to the one(s) they do have.

And since I watch billions of government dollars go to private business every day, I can't really understand why taxpayers have chosen to pick on the Maloofs in particular. The city wanted a big hotel downtown. They provided a big subsidy to the Hyatt and covered their operating losses for years. Embassy Suites and the Sheraton received subsidies. I guess they must all be so much pooer than the Maloofs. The Dive Bar downtown and the pizza place next door? Private businesses subsidized by the city. Agriculture across the nation, including big corporate farming? Subsidixed for years by the government. Believe me, some of them have far more money than the Maloofs. Your local gas station, internet provider in your area? Some definitely are subsidized.

Incidentally, the plans and studies the city wants the Maloofs to turn over? The Maloofs paid for them and those products are their property. That is the way it works. As long as they are seriously likely to move to Anaheim, there is no reason for them to turn over information they own to the city out of the goodness of their heart. If they move to Anaheim, I wouldn't turn any of it over, unless I was reimbursed for their cost.

 

[Larry David]

They took their ball home for two years in 2004 after the city offered them $150 million, which remains the only offer.

I know Moag was working in Sac after 2006, the problem was the Maloofs had burned every political bridge in town and made a new arena a third rail in the city of Sacramento. Why they did it isn't the point. They thought they could simply pull the plug on Q and R and just start over. They were very wrong. When they missed a chance to educate the public on the need or an arena during a campain, pulled all of the funding to do that, and let this fall 80/20. It was a 3rd rail for at least 2 years due to this mistake.

Two huge mistakes. John Thomas was heavy handed and loved to pull crap like this. He almost prevented the Rockets from getting something done in Houston.

I don't blame the Maloofs, as much as I blame the advice that Thomas gave them.

 

[JB_kings]

They took their ball home for two years in 2004 after the city offered them $150 million, which remains the only offer.

I know Moag was working in Sac after 2006, the problem was the Maloofs had burned every political bridge in town and made a new arena a third rail in the city of Sacramento. Why they did it isn't the point. They thought they could simply pull the plug on Q and R and just start over. They were very wrong. When they missed a chance to educate the public on the need or an arena during a campain, pulled all of the funding to do that, and let this fall 80/20. It was a 3rd rail for at least 2 years due to this mistake.

Two huge mistakes. John Thomas was heavy handed and loved to pull crap like this. He almost prevented the Rockets from getting something done in Houston.

I don't blame the Maloofs, as much as I blame the advice that Thomas gave them.

I remember that. Steve Cohn was the one who brought that up. It wasn't genuine in the context of the talks at that time. He was grandstanding and had literally nothing of substance to back that up. He was spitballing. And back then a few things like just puchasing the land in the railyards had not been ironed out and the land itself could have cost 150 million. Of course leaving all the other costs to be paid by the Kings. That was not an offer in good faith and was pure showboating.

 

[kennadog]

They took their ball home for two years in 2004 after the city offered them $150 million, which remains the only offer.

I know Moag was working in Sac after 2006, the problem was the Maloofs had burned every political bridge in town and made a new arena a third rail in the city of Sacramento. Why they did it isn't the point. They thought they could simply pull the plug on Q and R and just start over. They were very wrong. When they missed a chance to educate the public on the need or an arena during a campain, pulled all of the funding to do that, and let this fall 80/20. It was a 3rd rail for at least 2 years due to this mistake.

Two huge mistakes. John Thomas was heavy handed and loved to pull crap like this. He almost prevented the Rockets from getting something done in Houston.

I don't blame the Maloofs, as much as I blame the advice that Thomas gave them.

The information on why the arena needs replacing has been a poublic document by city consultants and city consulting engoneers. Its was out long before Q and R. For waht ever reason, trying to have a discussion about it has always been sucessfully shouted down by the negative naysayers.

Also, after initially reporting all those reason, the Bee seemed to just flat out ignore that information for a long time. That Bee was anti-arena for a very long time and they also were constantly criticizing the Maloofs and calling them billionaires. Every time an article and person would call them billionaires, I'd check Forbes list again. Nope, the Maloofs aren't on the billionaire list. I happen to agree with Grant that the Bee engaged in a character hatchet job on the Maloofs.

The Maloofs certainly didn't help themselves at times, but the paper almost never pointed out the contributions MSE has made to the community all these years, with the exception of Christmas time. Other things were given pretty short and brief play. Almost twenty million donated to city causes. Who's going to fill that gap? Of course, the Maloofs quite often didn't publicize their contirbutions. And the contributions weren't just money. Countless hours fo volunteer time was also donated by MSE employess and the team.

What's interesting is the Maloofs are admired owners outside of Sacramento. They were just crucified here.

Also, there was one definite offer from the Kings $300 million in lease payments over 30 years and the city would own the new arena downtown. Q & R was an ill-conceived plan, with major deception on the part of the city. It does matter why the NBA and the Maloofs pulled out of that one. Would you want to continue with a partner who was deceiving you on a business deal?

You and I know that the convergence plan was the longest of long shots, because of the State's necessary involvement. It's just the only plan that had any money committed to it from non-public sources and felt it could get the deal done without any kind of public taxes needed.