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- Thread starter Tetsujin
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I think we have an interesting situation with Davion. He finished the season really well, increasing his trade value. Do we sell high on Davion now?
I was in attendance for the Kings' last game, and Mitchell didn't look nearly as impressive as his stat sheet would suggest. Biggest shock to me was the lack of quickness. Despite being a very shifty player, he doesn't have much of a first or second step in him. He struggled changing speeds in space. He's built like FVV. The biggest difference between Mitchell and FVV is the shooting.
Mitchell shot 31.6% from 3pt on 4.3 attempts. His catch and shoot 3pt % was at 32.4% on 2.3 attempts. This is good for 17th worse among 115 "guards" in the league who played at least 20 minutes in 50+ games. For reference, Matisse Thybulle is at 30%, Bogdan is at 37.4%, and Haliburton is at 43.1%.
On this team, Mitchell's best fit is off the bench as our 6th man. In that case, it makes him highly expendable. If we could get him for a solid 3&D wing, I'd probably do it.
McNair showed that he's not afraid of trading players if it means improving the team. If we're serious about winning next year, we desperately need pieces to fit around Fox and Sabonis. That starts with 3pt shooting and defense.
I was in attendance for the Kings' last game, and Mitchell didn't look nearly as impressive as his stat sheet would suggest. Biggest shock to me was the lack of quickness. Despite being a very shifty player, he doesn't have much of a first or second step in him. He struggled changing speeds in space. He's built like FVV. The biggest difference between Mitchell and FVV is the shooting.
Mitchell shot 31.6% from 3pt on 4.3 attempts. His catch and shoot 3pt % was at 32.4% on 2.3 attempts. This is good for 17th worse among 115 "guards" in the league who played at least 20 minutes in 50+ games. For reference, Matisse Thybulle is at 30%, Bogdan is at 37.4%, and Haliburton is at 43.1%.
On this team, Mitchell's best fit is off the bench as our 6th man. In that case, it makes him highly expendable. If we could get him for a solid 3&D wing, I'd probably do it.
McNair showed that he's not afraid of trading players if it means improving the team. If we're serious about winning next year, we desperately need pieces to fit around Fox and Sabonis. That starts with 3pt shooting and defense.
If a team sees Davion as a 6th man spark plug off the bench, what type of value can we expect coming back? I don’t think we would be selling high if we traded him now.
I’d rather see if he can improve his shooting and off the ball skills. We should have a pretty good idea of who he is by the break next season.
I’d rather see if he can improve his shooting and off the ball skills. We should have a pretty good idea of who he is by the break next season.
That's strange Mitchell is extremely quick and I think his first step is pretty elite.
Also, for a team that's been allergic to defense for 16 years, and that has sucked *** for those 16 years, Davion is not the guy you should be looking to trade.
He needs to be here simply from a culture standpoint. The culture of this team needs to change. I think the additions of DDV and Sabonis were good things in that regard.
We need more of that not less of it
This team has been soft for way too long
Also, for a team that's been allergic to defense for 16 years, and that has sucked *** for those 16 years, Davion is not the guy you should be looking to trade.
He needs to be here simply from a culture standpoint. The culture of this team needs to change. I think the additions of DDV and Sabonis were good things in that regard.
We need more of that not less of it
This team has been soft for way too long
Yeah, agreed. He struggled mightily at the beginning of the year on offense especially, but he's shown real in-season progress (18.6 PPG, 8.4 AST, 2.6 REB, 33.3% from 3 on 48 attempts, 52.7% TS) in his last 10 games. With most of these games coming as the feature #1 option and lead playmaker. Still has a ways to go with the shooting/efficiency, but considering where he started from at the beginning of the year? I'll take the progress because I know I get his defense.
And like you said, the most important thing he can bring is his defensive intensity/effort/skill and be an actual culture changer for us on that end. The Kings have been so sorry defensively for so long; the only way you actually change that is finding willing and active defenders like Mitchell and DDV.
Also, I think the Kings are pretty well-stuck after trading Hali. You need his ball-handling/playmaking off of Fox and trading him for a wing (think Cam Johnson type) just creates another big hole we'll have to fill. The Kings have resources to fill their needs (Holmes trade, MLE, FRP, like 5 expirings). Explore those before Davion IMO.
And like you said, the most important thing he can bring is his defensive intensity/effort/skill and be an actual culture changer for us on that end. The Kings have been so sorry defensively for so long; the only way you actually change that is finding willing and active defenders like Mitchell and DDV.
Also, I think the Kings are pretty well-stuck after trading Hali. You need his ball-handling/playmaking off of Fox and trading him for a wing (think Cam Johnson type) just creates another big hole we'll have to fill. The Kings have resources to fill their needs (Holmes trade, MLE, FRP, like 5 expirings). Explore those before Davion IMO.
Yeah, Mitchell is fairly one dimensional at the moment even in pick and roll. That said, being able to shoot off the curl on pick and roll is more important for a lead guard than cutting off the ball. If he's expecting to play SG more then he has to start developing his off ball game and even though he's at the age where there's not a lot of development left to be had typically, with his work ethic it's certainly possible.
the numbers aren't made up though. it's simply comparing the numbers player X achieved and then looking in history of players who have done the same. one can make an entire chart of these type of numbers ad infinitum and you are right, it serves no purpose because you can't compare players from yesterday to today
We've been talking about culture change since forever. It's not happening off the back of a rookie. It went from, "Fox will change the culture!" to Haliburton... and now Mitchell?
I've always been a big fan of Mitchell, but I don't think he fits with Fox. At the end of the day, he's a ball dominant lead guard who struggles to shoot. Give me a player who fits next to Fox and Sabonis.
I've always been a big fan of Mitchell, but I don't think he fits with Fox. At the end of the day, he's a ball dominant lead guard who struggles to shoot. Give me a player who fits next to Fox and Sabonis.
Yeah Im back and forth. Starter Davion was 1st-team all-rookie, but he just had too much struggle the rest of the year to really justify.
Giddey missed the last 25 games though, Ayo really faded and Duarte stat profile was just as poor as Davion. Bones was a quality role player all year, so def a deserving 2nd-team bid. I get why he didn't make it, but I think he had just as good a case as Ayo and Duarte especially.
Giddey missed the last 25 games though, Ayo really faded and Duarte stat profile was just as poor as Davion. Bones was a quality role player all year, so def a deserving 2nd-team bid. I get why he didn't make it, but I think he had just as good a case as Ayo and Duarte especially.
A few highlights:
wants to be best player in NBA
considers himself a really good on ball defender and a poor off the ball defender
would rather guard taller players than small fast players
toughest players for him to defend are Curry, Brunson and Mitchell
has video proof of himself outside a gym doing normal 20 something activities like video games
thinks about the playoff drought every day and wants to be a part of ending it
wants to be best player in NBA
considers himself a really good on ball defender and a poor off the ball defender
would rather guard taller players than small fast players
toughest players for him to defend are Curry, Brunson and Mitchell
has video proof of himself outside a gym doing normal 20 something activities like video games
thinks about the playoff drought every day and wants to be a part of ending it
Davion's 23 minute film breakdown session about defense with Mike Schmitz from last year's pre-draft coverage is worth a watch for anyone who missed it.
This video really opened my eyes about how special he is both as a physical talent and as a student of the game. With his strength he's very hard to back down even for much bigger players yet he also can slide his feet to stay in front of basically anybody on the perimeter. His whole philosophy of making the offensive player uncomfortable, not letting them get into their rhythm, speeding them up whenever possible or limiting their options by forcing them baseline -- some of this stuff seems obvious but it made me realize I was thinking about defense in basketball from the wrong angle. Sometimes the goal is to come up with a turnover, stop dribble penetration, or contest a shot but more often than not being a good defender means getting the offense to think and react to you rather than letting them dictate the terms of the possession. The best scorers and offenses have a counter-move for anything you throw at them but the longer you can keep them mentally processing, protecting, and adjusting, the less time is left for them to attack.
This video really opened my eyes about how special he is both as a physical talent and as a student of the game. With his strength he's very hard to back down even for much bigger players yet he also can slide his feet to stay in front of basically anybody on the perimeter. His whole philosophy of making the offensive player uncomfortable, not letting them get into their rhythm, speeding them up whenever possible or limiting their options by forcing them baseline -- some of this stuff seems obvious but it made me realize I was thinking about defense in basketball from the wrong angle. Sometimes the goal is to come up with a turnover, stop dribble penetration, or contest a shot but more often than not being a good defender means getting the offense to think and react to you rather than letting them dictate the terms of the possession. The best scorers and offenses have a counter-move for anything you throw at them but the longer you can keep them mentally processing, protecting, and adjusting, the less time is left for them to attack.
Great answer and he's right - he's very good on-ball, not so much off-ball.
I love Davion and agree w/those who talk about his defense, his effort, and his culture-changing potential. My main question is about his ceiling. We know he'll work hard, very hard. But why is such a hard-working guy still such a mediocre free throw shooter and jump shooter? His playmaking is pretty average for a lead guard; how much better can that get w/more work?
There's a LOT to recommend DM, but there're certainly no untouchables on this team.
I love Davion and agree w/those who talk about his defense, his effort, and his culture-changing potential. My main question is about his ceiling. We know he'll work hard, very hard. But why is such a hard-working guy still such a mediocre free throw shooter and jump shooter? His playmaking is pretty average for a lead guard; how much better can that get w/more work?
There's a LOT to recommend DM, but there're certainly no untouchables on this team.