Offseason plan

[CaAllDay]

Here is an idea i wanna throw out .
Trade
Kings-nocioni, thompson
pistons- Ben Gordon

Kings- get a good shooting guard to play along side Tyreke, ben can guard pg if need and Reke the sg, very good shooter, oyah and shed noc.

pistons- blew there money on gordon and charlie v, already have hamiltion and stuckey, they get a young pf/c, noc has 3 years left gordon 4 so they also free up money 1 year early

If we get 3 pick take Cousins, if we get 1, or, 2 trade down to 3 and get whatever extra we can from that team.

Lineup
pg- Tyreke, Beno
sg- gordon, garcia
sf- Greene, casspi
pf- Landry, brockman
c- Hawes, cousins

Thoughts???

 

[sc3252]

I am sure that Detroit would do that since they at least get an ok player in return. Ben is not a good player in any regard, I always thought he was overrated when he was playing for the bulls, and he seems even worse now.

While I do agree that we might have to many big men after getting Cousins/Favors I would rather dump Hawes before JT and even then I would not want Ben in return.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I think that I would "throw out" this plan as well. As in throwing it into the garbage.

Gordon has 4 years and $48M left on his contract and has just come off what was by far his worst season in the NBA. His three-point shooting, which is basically his only asset, dropped over 90 points from his previous career average. He is a terrible defender and a terrible rebounder and he shoots way too much for a role player. He brings nothing that we want at an exorbitant price tag.

And in order to get this glorious booby prize, you want to send out Jason Thompson, who has two years left at rookie scale and was showing improvement at the end of the year, and Nocioni, who for all his faults has "only" two years and $13.5M remaining on his contract. No thanks.

 

[mr. moustache]

Yeah, terrible trade. Young big for an older overpaid little. I'd like to dump Noc's contract too, but if he's kept around as an overpaid 10m per game 3, I'd be fine.

I think that I would "throw out" this plan as well. As in throwing it into the garbage.

Gordon has 4 years and $48M left on his contract and has just come off what was by far his worst season in the NBA. His three-point shooting, which is basically his only asset, dropped over 90 points from his previous career average. He is a terrible defender and a terrible rebounder and he shoots way too much for a role player. He brings nothing that we want at an exorbitant price tag.

And in order to get this glorious booby prize, you want to send out Jason Thompson, who has two years left at rookie scale and was showing improvement at the end of the year, and Nocioni, who for all his faults has "only" two years and $13.5M remaining on his contract. No thanks.

 

[bajaden]

This is a joke, right? Were short big men, and were going to just throw away our best rebounder, who played very well the last 10 or 12 games of the season, for a 6'3" shooting guard. Its beyond me why people tend to undervalue the players on their team and overvalue those on the other team.

 

[CaAllDay]

i take it u guys dont like this option... lol
imo gordon is hardly a worse defender then jason thompson, Jt is a hustle player at best, guy fouls more then any other player i've ever seen, is 6'11 with zero post game. Gordon had a down year true but the pistons were just a mess, a really good shooter to stretch the floor, can handle the ball as well, he was huge in the playoffs against the celtics a couple years back and is 27 years old so not washed up @ all.

Geez im not saying trade tyreke for him, and i dont think gordon is a glorious prize but can fit well with tyreke, guys we are swapping noc, and the foul machine for him, we have landry and brockman, hopefully cousins and prolly another mid level guy.

not bad lineup imo, but i do appreciate other kings fans feedback.

Announce the ROY already please!!!

 

[bajaden]

i take it u guys dont like this option... lol
imo gordon is hardly a worse defender then jason thompson, Jt is a hustle player at best, guy fouls more then any other player i've ever seen, is 6'11 with zero post game. Gordon had a down year true but the pistons were just a mess, a really good shooter to stretch the floor, can handle the ball as well, he was huge in the playoffs against the celtics a couple years back and is 27 years old so not washed up @ all.

Geez im not saying trade tyreke for him, and i dont think gordon is a glorious prize but can fit well with tyreke, guys we are swapping noc, and the foul machine for him, we have landry and brockman, hopefully cousins and prolly another mid level guy.

not bad lineup imo, but i do appreciate other kings fans feedback.

Announce the ROY already please!!!

Your just like a million other guys out there. You, or someone else labels a player and then they're that way for life as far as your concerned. JT improved greatlly toward the end of the season. He almost averaged a double/double for the last third of the season. His defense, especially his pick and roll defense improved. But you know what? You have to pay attention or at least know something about basketball to have an objective opinion.

Yes, he had a rough middle of the season. But a light went on in his head at some point, because he started to play like a different player. Does JT still make mistakes at times on defense? Yes he does, but he does so while trying to do too much. Not because he's not putting out the effort. I wouldn't trade Beno for Ben Gordon, much less a 6'11" player who just finished his second year in the NBA, and is the best rebounder on the team. Ben Gordon couldn't guard Kobe if Kobe was dead.

 

[CaAllDay]

Your just like a million other guys out there. You, or someone else labels a player and then they're that way for life as far as your concerned. JT improved greatlly toward the end of the season. He almost averaged a double/double for the last third of the season. His defense, especially his pick and roll defense improved. But you know what? You have to pay attention or at least know something about basketball to have an objective opinion.

Yes, he had a rough middle of the season. But a light went on in his head at some point, because he started to play like a different player. Does JT still make mistakes at times on defense? Yes he does, but he does so while trying to do too much. Not because he's not putting out the effort. I wouldn't trade Beno for Ben Gordon, much less a 6'11" player who just finished his second year in the NBA, and is the best rebounder on the team. Ben Gordon couldn't guard Kobe if Kobe was dead.

Didnt know James A Naismith was a member of this board.
Jt is a career back up thats it, he is a decent backup but BG is a starting caliber guard. Jt bball iq is bad, he fouls always, his post defense is pathetic, he gets killed by every pf in the NBA u gonna disagree with that?
He has no post game, so is he gonna transform into tim duncan somehow prolly not, we got landry who we gave up martin for, gonna get a frontcourt player in the draft hopefully cousins and get rid of noc in the process. Just throwing it out there imo the team would be upgraded by this move. But hey just my opinion, u know what they say opinions are like..... well u know the rest.

 

[FakeInjury]

How about thompson and Noc for beasley?

 

[Bricklayer]

How about thompson and Noc for beasley?

1) Miami wouldn't do it -- one of the reasons why they are said ot be interested in moving Beasely is to clear even more cap room -- if so its the nuttiest cap room only strategy we've ever seen in the NBA. Wonder if there's ever be a non-expansion NBA team with NO players under contract come July 1st?

2) Beasley has stalled out -- didn't get any better this year, and showed all the same problems. Which is scary. I cetainly don't consider Jason untouchable, but he's a full sized player as opposed to Beasley who just isn't built to play NBA PF let alone center. And JT is a part of our young core of guys who have good chemistry together. Its an x-factor that makes his value to us more than it would be to another team in a similar situation. Especially when you are talking about adding a potential distraction like Beasley. remember how quick we were to dump Doresyt because we were worried he would rub off on the other guys? Have a hard time seeing us add a mental midget to the mix this summer (and yes Jaosn can be a mental midget ON the court, but I am referring to the rampant immaturity/offcourt issues with Beasley).

 

[bajaden]

Didnt know James A Naismith was a member of this board.
Jt is a career back up thats it, he is a decent backup but BG is a starting caliber guard. Jt bball iq is bad, he fouls always, his post defense is pathetic, he gets killed by every pf in the NBA u gonna disagree with that?
He has no post game, so is he gonna transform into tim duncan somehow prolly not, we got landry who we gave up martin for, gonna get a frontcourt player in the draft hopefully cousins and get rid of noc in the process. Just throwing it out there imo the team would be upgraded by this move. But hey just my opinion, u know what they say opinions are like..... well u know the rest.

As you said, its just your opinion. I don't like blanket statements. Someone is a career this or that. You know, you may be right. But we just don't know that to be a fact just yet. When you dealing with a second year big man you just don't throw in the towel on that player unless you've got a real good reason. And I don't see a real good reason as of yet. And he doesn't have to be Tim Duncan. Whats with you guys? Does a player have to be a superstar or they're not good enough for you.

And yes, I'm going to disagree that JT get killed by every powerforward in the league. Because he doesn't. And I'm not going to waste my time going through every game that was played to explain it to you. If you have a closed mind on the matter, then you have a closed mind on the matter. And by the way. I'm not oppossed to trading JT for the right player. But not for a midget SG that doesn't play defense and is a ballhog.

JT is an athletic 6'11" player that runs the floor very well and has ballhanding and passing skills. Yes his post game needs more work, as does his left hand. He always hustles. Sometimes to his detriment and gets out of control, but he was better the last third of the season. Thats progress. So I'm willing to give him another year to see what he can develop into. Because if he can become a 15/10 guy, then he has value to the team. And he's not that far away from 15/10. No offense to Gordon, but SG's are a dime a dozen. We just traded one away. And for what? Another big man.

 

[dbfish]

James A. Naismith is not a member of this board. He died in 1939.

I'm sure that if he were alive he would have a comment or two for CaAllDay.

 

[CaAllDay]

How about thompson and Noc for beasley?

nah beasly a big man who isnt big enough and seems to be allergic to the paint. he's listed @ 6'10 but doesnt look it. But if all your giving up is noc and Jt then maybe it should be explored, ah money doesnt work.

 

[CaAllDay]

As you said, its just your opinion. I don't like blanket statements. Someone is a career this or that. You know, you may be right. But we just don't know that to be a fact just yet. When you dealing with a second year big man you just don't throw in the towel on that player unless you've got a real good reason. And I don't see a real good reason as of yet. And he doesn't have to be Tim Duncan. Whats with you guys? Does a player have to be a superstar or they're not good enough for you.

And yes, I'm going to disagree that JT get killed by every powerforward in the league. Because he doesn't. And I'm not going to waste my time going through every game that was played to explain it to you. If you have a closed mind on the matter, then you have a closed mind on the matter. And by the way. I'm not oppossed to trading JT for the right player. But not for a midget SG that doesn't play defense and is a ballhog.

JT is an athletic 6'11" player that runs the floor very well and has ballhanding and passing skills. Yes his post game needs more work, as does his left hand. He always hustles. Sometimes to his detriment and gets out of control, but he was better the last third of the season. Thats progress. So I'm willing to give him another year to see what he can develop into. Because if he can become a 15/10 guy, then he has value to the team. And he's not that far away from 15/10. No offense to Gordon, but SG's are a dime a dozen. We just traded one away. And for what? Another big man.

I understand it can take awhile to get your NBA feet wet, and get used to the game, but i watch every kings game, every game i watch it, i wish JT would do well i am a die hard kings fan, but in most of the games i seen he was to easily backed down by almost every pf in the NBA, fouls @ an alarming rate, has no post moves. He was a four year college player 2 years in the NBA if these things are still so bad kinna seems like they will stay this way. He does have a nice jump shot now, but from a pf i want def, and points in the paint. 2 guards are the easy to obtain your right, imo BG would be a nice compliment to Tyreke, down year for him granted, but he killed the celtics in the playoffs couple years back not afraid of the moment. Ballhog is how many people described John Salmons, to me i see a scorer who is very hard to stop.

Gooday
Go Kings
Hello Cousins

 

[bajaden]

I understand it can take awhile to get your NBA feet wet, and get used to the game, but i watch every kings game, every game i watch it, i wish JT would do well i am a die hard kings fan, but in most of the games i seen he was to easily backed down by almost every pf in the NBA, fouls @ an alarming rate, has no post moves. He was a four year college player 2 years in the NBA if these things are still so bad kinna seems like they will stay this way. He does have a nice jump shot now, but from a pf i want def, and points in the paint. 2 guards are the easy to obtain your right, imo BG would be a nice compliment to Tyreke, down year for him granted, but he killed the celtics in the playoffs couple years back not afraid of the moment. Ballhog is how many people described John Salmons, to me i see a scorer who is very hard to stop.

Gooday
Go Kings
Hello Cousins

OK, peace already.. I, like you, watched every single Kings game. I will admit turning off one toward the end of the season. Don't remember which one, but it was one of the games that Tryeke missed toward the end and we were playing terrible. As a matter of fact, I think Thompson had something like 18 points and 12 boards in that game. Which of course most people will discount because we were getting out butts kicked.

Ok, here's how I see Thompson, and this as honest as I can put it. In order to be fair to him and to our own expectations of him, we need to put things into prespective. You can either accept these things as legitimate considerations or not. But I do. first off, he was a Point guard in highschool. Which is where he got his ballhandling skills. Between his freshman year of college and his junior year of college he shot up to 6'7", and between his junior year and senior year he grew to 6'11". So you have a player that went from a point guard to a center in four years.

So this big body he has is was only a couple of years old when the Kings drafted. And although he played 4 years of college ball, he only played center for around 2 of those years. So in essence, he's still learning the center or PF positions. He also played at Rider, which is in a smaller conference. So he didn't get to test himself against the top college players on a regular basis. I can't comment on the type of coaching he got at Rider because I don't know their system that well. But I take all these things into consideration when I judge a player.

Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you that everything is just hunky dorey with Thompson. This was a very frustrating season to watch if you were a Thompson fan. He started well, but then went into a big time nosedive. But even when he was playing well at the beginning, he was still making the same mistakes over and over again. He made mistakes that a lot of people don't even see. And got blamed for some that wern't his. But after we aquired Landry, and Thompson had to go back home for personal reasons, something changed. I noticed it right away. He slowed down and stopped forcing things. He started taking the slower PF's and Centers that guarded him off the dribble. He started to look like a legitimate PF.

Does he still get abused in man defense at times? Sure! But some blamed him for not being able to stop Dirk Nowitzki. When in fact he didn't even guard Nowitzki that much in the game. He spent most of his time guarding Dampier and Haywood, and did a pretty fair job on them. Nowitzki went off for 39 points, and frankly I don't think anyone could have guarded him. The night before he abused Aldridge for 40 points, and no one is calling Aldridge a terrible defender. To criticize any player because they couldn't stop Duncan or Garnett etc, is ridiculous. Nobody stops them. All you can do is make them work hard.

All I'm saying is that I see hope for Thompson. All he needs is a one good go to move in the post and to really work on that jumper until he becomes almost automatic with it. He needs to improve his footwork on defense, and then the Kings need to decide whether he's a center or a PF and quit jerking him around from one position to another. And I agree with you, I hope its Cousins..

 

[rainmaker]

Here is an idea i wanna throw out .
Trade
Kings-nocioni, thompson
pistons- Ben Gordon

Kings- get a good shooting guard to play along side Tyreke, ben can guard pg if need and Reke the sg, very good shooter, oyah and shed noc.

pistons- blew there money on gordon and charlie v, already have hamiltion and stuckey, they get a young pf/c, noc has 3 years left gordon 4 so they also free up money 1 year early

If we get 3 pick take Cousins, if we get 1, or, 2 trade down to 3 and get whatever extra we can from that team.

Lineup
pg- Tyreke, Beno
sg- gordon, garcia
sf- Greene, casspi
pf- Landry, brockman
c- Hawes, cousins

Thoughts???

Ben Gordon is due to make 10.8M next year, 11.6M, 12.4M and 13.2M the following four year. I don't want to touch that contract, especially for a 6'3" blackhole of a sg who can't play defense.

Beno and Tyreke play very well off eachother, and if we're going to replace Beno in the starting lineup, we need a taller, more versatile, better defending sg than Gordon. Personally, I think Gordon is a better 6th man, similar to Jason Terry. Great scorer off the bench, but doesn't fit well as a fulltime starter. Isn't worth the contract either.

Jt is our best rebounder, is our only big man double double threat, and showed considerable improvement the last month of the season. I would see no reason to include him in this deal. Don't like it at all.

If we're trading for a player due approx $48M over the next 4 years, he better be at least 6'9", and enjoy playing in the paint.

 

[pkballr]

So we're going to trade Noc and Thompson for a shorter Kevin Martin?

Didn't we try this before? This Kevin Martin makes even more money! And did I mention he's shorter?

 

[Sptsjunkie]

So if I understand this right, we want to trade a cheap Kurt Thomas (worst case) for an overpriced, SG with a shorter career arc and no D. Even ridding ourselves of Noc is not worth it. His contract is not that bad. We already have a ton of cap space and by the time we are good he will be an expiring contract.

 

[Chupacabra]

If we're able to draft Cousins or Favors how about we package Landry/Thompson and trade them to OKC for Ibaka/Krstic? Ibaka would be the meat of the trade for us. That guy is a monster. OKC knows that they have a gem in Ibaka which is why we cant just send them scrubs. A front court of Cousins/Favors, Ibaka, Krstic wouldnt be bad. Having Cousins/Favors and Ibaka on the floor at the same time would be a dream.

 

[mac]

I'm kinda in a dilemma with regards to our big man situation. IF we draft Cousins I'm very interested to see what will happen with Hawes. I of course hope Hawes shows great improvement. Having too much talent is not a bad problem to have

 

[Bricklayer]

So if I understand this right, we want to trade a cheap Kurt Thomas (worst case) for an overpriced, SG with a shorter career arc and no D. Even ridding ourselves of Noc is not worth it. His contract is not that bad. We already have a ton of cap space and by the time we are good he will be an expiring contract.

Yeah but Kurt Thomas was a defensive stalwart and all around tough guy at his peak. We can only dream JT ever gets within distant sniffing distance of that kind of thing. If he really had those traits then he would be borderline untouchable.

 

[Prince_XY]

Here is an idea i wanna throw out .
Trade
Kings-nocioni, thompson
pistons- Ben Gordon

Kings- get a good shooting guard to play along side Tyreke, ben can guard pg if need and Reke the sg, very good shooter, oyah and shed noc.

pistons- blew there money on gordon and charlie v, already have hamiltion and stuckey, they get a young pf/c, noc has 3 years left gordon 4 so they also free up money 1 year early

If we get 3 pick take Cousins, if we get 1, or, 2 trade down to 3 and get whatever extra we can from that team.

Lineup
pg- Tyreke, Beno
sg- gordon, garcia
sf- Greene, casspi
pf- Landry, brockman
c- Hawes, cousins

Thoughts???

This idea could have been a very good idea ONLY if Gordon is not an overpaid midget, non-defending shooting guard and if it does not involve the all-out effort player Thompson.

 

[CaAllDay]

no one likes BG's game, imo he's a good sg can shoot lights out, guess will have to see what he does next year, pistons need to move one of there guards. I think we need an upgrade @ sg, someone Tyreke can kick to when that double comes, priority is getting a big man so all this is assuming we get cousins.

 

[bajaden]

no one likes BG's game, imo he's a good sg can shoot lights out, guess will have to see what he does next year, pistons need to move one of there guards. I think we need an upgrade @ sg, someone Tyreke can kick to when that double comes, priority is getting a big man so all this is assuming we get cousins.

Would you agree that if we were able to draft Evan Turner that would no longer be a need? What ever we do, I think we have to see how the draft turns out first. I think improving the center position is a higher priority than another SG. Thats not to say I'm oppossed to another good shooter in the backcourt. But I think its someone that doesn't need the ball all the time in order to be effective. A better shooting Doug Christie type.

Someone that can hit the spot up three and defend at the other end of the floor. BG just doesn't fit that description. No one deny's that he can shoot the ball, but he's a liability on defense. And when your a team trying to improve on the defensive end, I think he's a luxury you can't afford.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah but Kurt Thomas was a defensive stalwart and all around tough guy at his peak. We can only dream JT ever gets within distant sniffing distance of that kind of thing. If he really had those traits then he would be borderline untouchable.

I really doubt that JT will become as good a defender as Thomas. Hey, stranger things have happened. But he could become a better all around player than Thomas. At least thats my hope. Big offseason for him coming up. I'm still hopefull. But regardless of how he turns out the Kings still need another big that can impact the defense around the basket.

By the way. Maybe you, or anyone else can explain to me how simply backing out of the way and letting the opposition post player fall to the floor because your no longer there to throw his body into, is a foul. Thompson got called on that three times this past season. Barkley used to do it all the time and it was never called a foul on him. Hey! Maybe Thompson should change his name to Barkley. Might get him a gig on TNT later.

 

[Uncia03]

I wouldn't do this trade. As much as I'd like to see Nocioni moved, having to eat Gordon's contract doesn't make sense, especially since I'd rather have Beno play the SG next to Tyreke than Gordon.

What makes this particular offseason hard is that depending on whether we draft a big or a small will change the entire complexion of our team's needs and potential off-seaon dealings.
And since the upcoming draft has the two best players being small while the remaining top players bigs, it makes it impossible to really discuss until we find out where we are going in the lottery.

I will say this. If we end up getting Cousins in the draft I would seriously consider trading Landry. Landry's biggest asset is his post-scoring, but he's on that small $3m contract and you know he's going to want a big pay-raise after next year.
Cousins provides the post scoring, in addition to the rebounding that Landry lacks, so since Landry is still on a cheap contract you could see him being incorporated in a trade for a young up-and-coming PF still on a rookie contract.
Landry should have far more trade value than JT or Hawes, so he might be our best trade asset.

Chupakabra mentioned Serge Ibaka, and that's the type of player I'm imagining.

If we draft Favors, then we should probably try to hold on to Landry, as I don't think Favors will have the same immediate impact in the post that Cousins should.

Anyway, until we figure out what our draft position is, it really is hard to determine the best direction for our off-season moves.

 

[bajaden]

I wouldn't do this trade. As much as I'd like to see Nocioni moved, having to eat Gordon's contract doesn't make sense, especially since I'd rather have Beno play the SG next to Tyreke than Gordon.

What makes this particular offseason hard is that depending on whether we draft a big or a small will change the entire complexion of our team's needs and potential off-seaon dealings.
And since the upcoming draft has the two best players being small while the remaining top players bigs, it makes it impossible to really discuss until we find out where we are going in the lottery.

I will say this. If we end up getting Cousins in the draft I would seriously consider trading Landry. Landry's biggest asset is his post-scoring, but he's on that small $3m contract and you know he's going to want a big pay-raise after next year.
Cousins provides the post scoring, in addition to the rebounding that Landry lacks, so since Landry is still on a cheap contract you could see him being incorporated in a trade for a young up-and-coming PF still on a rookie contract.
Landry should have far more trade value than JT or Hawes, so he might be our best trade asset.

Chupakabra mentioned Serge Ibaka, and that's the type of player I'm imagining.

If we draft Favors, then we should probably try to hold on to Landry, as I don't think Favors will have the same immediate impact in the post that Cousins should.

Anyway, until we figure out what our draft position is, it really is hard to determine the best direction for our off-season moves.

Aside from Tyreke, I'm not opposed to trading anyone as long as it makes sense financially, and in quality of return. However it would be unlike the Kings to trade a homegrown product like Martin for a player, and then immediately trade that player away. The Kings are considerably under the cap. They have Landry signed for another year. But at then end of that year they'll have decisions to make not only on Landry, but whether to make a qualifing offer on Hawes and whether to pick up the option on Greene. To me Greene is a no brainer.

I like Landry, but he's limited in how good he can be by his height. I have no doubt that he can be a consistant scorer and a decent rebounder. But he'll never be a shotblocker or a great man defender. Its hard to guard a 7 foot PF when your only 6'8.5" in shoes. Yeah I know there aren't that many 7 ft PF's in the league, but in truth, he gives away height to most of the PF's in the league. If we were to draft Cousins it gets interesting. Cousins is a center. And thats the only position I see him playing. Which is fine. You don't see Kaman playing PF for the Clips.

The question is, how does that affect the way the team looks at Hawes. With the way Thompson played at the center position at the end of the season, do you move him to center? And if so, what do you do with Hawes. Then again, he is younger than Thompson, so it might be to early to give up on him.

Here's my deal on Hawes. When we drafted Hawes we still had Miller and Salmons. The Kings really hadn't started their rebuild yet. Hawes at that time fit the type of center the Kings had an afinity for. A very similar player to Miller and Vlade in style of play. So he seemed at the time, the right fit.

Since then, the Kings have changed direction. They've tried to become a more physical and athletic team. They've started to put more emphasis on defense. Now how much success they've had at that so far, is up for debate. But I do think that they've aquired players that are more athletic and to a degree more Physical. When I think of athletic and physical, Hawes just doesn't spring to mind. My point being, that he doesn't seem like a good fit anymore. Not his fault, and I'm not sure he'll ever be the kind of center the Kings are now looking for.

 

[Telemachus]

I understand it can take awhile to get your NBA feet wet, and get used to the game, but i watch every kings game, every game i watch it, i wish JT would do well i am a die hard kings fan, but in most of the games i seen he was to easily backed down by almost every pf in the NBA, fouls @ an alarming rate, has no post moves. He was a four year college player 2 years in the NBA if these things are still so bad kinna seems like they will stay this way. He does have a nice jump shot now, but from a pf i want def, and points in the paint. 2 guards are the easy to obtain your right, imo BG would be a nice compliment to Tyreke, down year for him granted, but he killed the celtics in the playoffs couple years back not afraid of the moment. Ballhog is how many people described John Salmons, to me i see a scorer who is very hard to stop.

Gooday
Go Kings
Hello Cousins

You obviously like Ben Gordon, but to me he is just a smaller version of Kevin Martin. Of the two, I think Martin is a better player. We all saw how well he worked out with Tyreke this season. And I should point out that KMart doesn't hog the ball the way Gorden does. He was a black hole in Chicago. I didn't watch him much this season in Detroit, but have to wonder how much his game was hurt by not getting the ball nearly as much.

While I agree that Salmons was called a ballhog by some, it was more about him pounding the ball too long before making a decision. He was always a willing passer, but often waiting too long and was left with having to force up a shot.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Yeah but Kurt Thomas was a defensive stalwart and all around tough guy at his peak. We can only dream JT ever gets within distant sniffing distance of that kind of thing. If he really had those traits then he would be borderline untouchable.

I could see JT being a similar type of player. Not a shot blocker, but a good man and team defender. He certainly has comparable height, reach, strength and better athleticism. I could see him reaching similar defensive capabilities and being able to hit the 15 footer.

 

[Kingster]

Aside from Tyreke, I'm not opposed to trading anyone as long as it makes sense financially, and in quality of return. However it would be unlike the Kings to trade a homegrown product like Martin for a player, and then immediately trade that player away. The Kings are considerably under the cap. They have Landry signed for another year. But at then end of that year they'll have decisions to make not only on Landry, but whether to make a qualifing offer on Hawes and whether to pick up the option on Greene. To me Greene is a no brainer.

I like Landry, but he's limited in how good he can be by his height. I have no doubt that he can be a consistant scorer and a decent rebounder. But he'll never be a shotblocker or a great man defender. Its hard to guard a 7 foot PF when your only 6'8.5" in shoes. Yeah I know there aren't that many 7 ft PF's in the league, but in truth, he gives away height to most of the PF's in the league. If we were to draft Cousins it gets interesting. Cousins is a center. And thats the only position I see him playing. Which is fine. You don't see Kaman playing PF for the Clips.

The question is, how does that affect the way the team looks at Hawes. With the way Thompson played at the center position at the end of the season, do you move him to center? And if so, what do you do with Hawes. Then again, he is younger than Thompson, so it might be to early to give up on him.

Here's my deal on Hawes. When we drafted Hawes we still had Miller and Salmons. The Kings really hadn't started their rebuild yet. Hawes at that time fit the type of center the Kings had an afinity for. A very similar player to Miller and Vlade in style of play. So he seemed at the time, the right fit.

Since then, the Kings have changed direction. They've tried to become a more physical and athletic team. They've started to put more emphasis on defense. Now how much success they've had at that so far, is up for debate. But I do think that they've aquired players that are more athletic and to a degree more Physical. When I think of athletic and physical, Hawes just doesn't spring to mind. My point being, that he doesn't seem like a good fit anymore. Not his fault, and I'm not sure he'll ever be the kind of center the Kings are now looking for.

As strange as it may sound, Hawes needs to improve his offense more than his defense. Offense is his strength. If he improves his offense sufficiently, then the discussion becomes: Who do we get to complement Hawes? If he doesn't improve to become a consistent scoring center, then the discussion is that he doesn't complement the other players (like Landry). Hawes is very young. He has a lot of upside. We just have to see more of it.