Offseason Kings Thoughts, What's Next?

[randymoss1881]

You and I seem to have different opinions of Rondo, then. Personally, I think he's an overrated, ball-dominant stat padder, but that's just my two cents.

I used to think that but changed my mind he is a walking triple double and was the celtics the last 2 years. He is ultr competitive and has that it factor, only a select few players raise there games in the playoffs and he is one of them. He averages 15-7-9 with 5 triple doubles ranks top 10 all time. A rondo cousins pick and roll is unstoppable and unless we are getting wiggins Parker smith or randle we should try and get rondo.

I have a suspicion that Rondo is a really, really difficult person to get along with. I haven't read anything that specifically said that, although I know that he and Ray Allen apparently had some issues. Having said that, here's a blurb from Bill Simmons on the idea.

Look, I may or may not have been wasting inordinate amounts of time this summer on ESPN's Trade Machine making up fake Rondo trades. With Detroit out, one other Rondo suitor makes sense: the Kings. They're rebooting around a new arena, a new owner whom everyone loves (Vivek Ranadivé), a rejuvenated Boogie Cousins (at least that's the hope), and the chance to play an entire season without a Maloof involved. What about Rondo, Wallace's $30.3 million basketball cadaver and Jordan Crawford's expiring for Ben McLemore, the John Salmons–Patrick Patterson expirings, Greivis Vasquez, Jimmer Fredette and an unprotected no. 1 pick in 2014? (Thinking.) You're right, I need to get off the Trade Machine.
​

Of course, keep in mind that Simmons is a complete Celtics homer and has been using the Kings as suckers in hypothetical trades in his pieces for many years.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9522281/the-nba-midnight-run-part-2

They won't get mclemore or an unprotected pick but a good trade would be Patterson, Vasquez, top 3 protected 1st in 2014 for rondo and Wallace.

But at least Simmons is with me in the rondo kings match

 

[Bricklayer]

I used to think that but changed my mind he is a walking triple double and was the celtics the last 2 years. He is ultr competitive and has that it factor, only a select few players raise there games in the playoffs and he is one of them. He averages 15-7-9 with 5 triple doubles ranks top 10 all time. A rondo cousins pick and roll is unstoppable and unless we are getting wiggins Parker smith or randle we should try and get rondo.




They won't get mclemore or an unprotected pick but a good trade would be Patterson, Vasquez, top 3 protected 1st in 2014 for rondo and Wallace.

But at least Simmons is with me in the rondo kings match

oh, McLemore would have to be a consideration there instead of that pick (and its obviously one or the other before this even gets chatted about) depending on how much we were trying to win. Remember he has them sending us Jordan Crawford as well. Thing is Rondo/Thornton/Cousins, Wallace and Mbah aBute as defensive SFs. JT and Landry and...we still need that shotblocker. IT and Crawford as guards. Makes you wonder a bit.

Amongst the overall silliness of those kind of megatrades though is this: I don't think we can trade Vasquez for quite a while except in a 1 on 1 deal. Might be wrong. Not sure if the sing and tradiness of his acquisition changes things.

C- Cousins/Oden?
PF- Thompson/Landry
SF- Wallace/ Mbah a Moute
SG- Thornton/Crawford (the chuckers)
PG- Rondo/IT

others: Hayes, Outlaw, McCallum

Get me a shotblocker there (Oden?) and I might be able to coach that to pretty good result. Have multiple defenders of multiple sizes. Roleplayers. Designated chuckers. Some title experience and a star center.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I have a suspicion that Rondo is a really, really difficult person to get along with. I haven't read anything that specifically said that, although I know that he and Ray Allen apparently had some issues. Having said that, here's a blurb from Bill Simmons on the idea.

Look, I may or may not have been wasting inordinate amounts of time this summer on ESPN's Trade Machine making up fake Rondo trades. With Detroit out, one other Rondo suitor makes sense: the Kings. They're rebooting around a new arena, a new owner whom everyone loves (Vivek Ranadivé), a rejuvenated Boogie Cousins (at least that's the hope), and the chance to play an entire season without a Maloof involved. What about Rondo, Wallace's $30.3 million basketball cadaver and Jordan Crawford's expiring for Ben McLemore, the John Salmons–Patrick Patterson expirings, Greivis Vasquez, Jimmer Fredette and an unprotected no. 1 pick in 2014? (Thinking.) You're right, I need to get off the Trade Machine.
​

Of course, keep in mind that Simmons is a complete Celtics homer and has been using the Kings as suckers in hypothetical trades in his pieces for many years.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9522281/the-nba-midnight-run-part-2

Regardless of what you think about McLemore, that trade is just completely ridiculous and a reason why it's impossible to read/listen to Simmons on a level greater than just for entertainment purposes (and I'm stretching it). That's one of the worst proposals I've seen in a long, long time, which is saying something considering what's often posted on this forum.

 

[Chubbs]

If MLM is scoring a lot of that will probably be from Vasquez. So hopefully if Vasquez is doing well and his D isn't terrible we could look at keeping him as well so we wouldn't have to go after Rondo. This year will be a huge test for Rondo as well.

I really like Rondo though and would love him on the Kings.

His teammates weren't huge fans. That's a red flag.

 

[Chubbs]

You and I seem to have different opinions of Rondo, then. Personally, I think he's an overrated, ball-dominant stat padder, but that's just my two cents.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the take on Vazquez as well.

 

[Spike]

And, as I clearly stated in the post you quoted, passing up a chance to be the big fish in a big pond to be the big fish in a small pond is still commendable, and EDD would have been the Number One Option, no matter who she played for. I neither object to chosing being a star in a small town over being a star in a big city, nor do I object to chosing to be a role player in a small town over a role player in a big city... I'm a Kings Fan, why would I? I do, however, take some exception to the notion that someone who chooses being the star of a team that's going nowhere over being a role player on a championship contender as being somehow virtuous.

A for A swaps are virtuous. C for C swaps are virtuous. A for C swaps are eyeroll worthy.

I don't know that EDD would have been #1 at UConn, but UD was lucky to have her back home. I remember her from when I lived in DE. Discussion for another time, I suppose, but I got your point - figured you would be the only one here who got the reference.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't know that EDD would have been #1 at UConn, but UD was lucky to have her back home.

Not a doubt in my mind: the only school where she might not have been the Number One was at Baylor. And even there, she would have either been #1 or #1A.

 

[Spike]

Not a doubt in my mind: the only school where she might not have been the Number One was at Baylor. And even there, she would have either been #1 or #1A.

Oh, I don't know. Baylor, sure, between Sims and Griner, she definitely would have been second option, but UConn was stacked as well. Her size and ability gave her an advantage, but I don't think Geno's ego was handling her well, despite the claim that she went home for family reasons. With KML, Faris, Dolson and Stewart in addition to EDD, that would have sucked for the rest of the country.

Huh, long story short, I might be inclined to agree with you, but I think Geno was too much of an *** to make it work.

 

[mac]

Side note: Where on earth are these Cousins PnR ideas coming from? He hasn't shown any elite PnR skills or ability to finish at the rim off a PnR.. Needless to say a lot of that is us not having a PG to get him the ball when he rolls but generally the good PnR players have always been very athletic. Cousins is mobile, but a Karl Malone or even Blake Griffin level finisher he is not. I really think he's best in an iso situation either in the post or taking his man off the dribble a little from 15ft.

 

[jalfa]

Side note: Where on earth are these Cousins PnR ideas coming from? He hasn't shown any elite PnR skills or ability to finish at the rim off a PnR.. Needless to say a lot of that is us not having a PG to get him the ball when he rolls but generally the good PnR players have always been very athletic. Cousins is mobile, but a Karl Malone or even Blake Griffin level finisher he is not. I really think he's best in an iso situation either in the post or taking his man off the dribble a little from 15ft.

he also kinda sucks at setting screens and tends to slip them a bit too much, as well. seeing though how important pnr has become, it's something he should be picking up tout de suite, even though he's going to have his plate full anyway.

 

[mac]

he also kinda sucks at setting screens and tends to slip them a bit too much, as well. seeing though how important pnr has become, it's something he should be picking up tout de suite, even though he's going to have his plate full anyway.

Exactly. It's something he should be PICKING UP, but some around here seem to have this idea that DMC is going to oh so love playing PnRs with Vasquez, as if he's always been a PnR player.

 

[jalfa]

Exactly. It's something he should be PICKING UP, but some around here seem to have this idea that DMC is going to oh so love playing PnRs with Vasquez, as if he's always been a PnR player.

one of the (many, many) things I'm worrying about: as of now, Cuz needs to anchor the defense, resolve his foul trouble issues, acquire an effective go-to post move, learn to be an effective pnr guy, solve all our rebounding problems, give maximum effort all the time, improve his conditioning to the point that he can do all this 36 minutes a game, 82 games a season, and be less of a headcase about all of it. that's asking a lot and with a guy as volatile as Cuz is, this might blow up in everybody's faces and I really do hope that they at least give him his extension soon, to send the message that they trust him to succeed with it.

 

[Chubbs]

one of the (many, many) things I'm worrying about: as of now, Cuz needs to anchor the defense, resolve his foul trouble issues, acquire an effective go-to post move, learn to be an effective pnr guy, solve all our rebounding problems, give maximum effort all the time, improve his conditioning to the point that he can do all this 36 minutes a game, 82 games a season, and be less of a headcase about all of it. that's asking a lot and with a guy as volatile as Cuz is, this might blow up in everybody's faces and I really do hope that they at least give him his extension soon, to send the message that they trust him to succeed with it.

I expected most of this last season as well. If you'll recall, his rebounding and scoring numbers went DOWN, not up. It's just really too bad we didn't get a shot blocker. Expecting cousins to do it all? Just don't see it working, based on it not working so far. He hasn't shown an ability to do it on both ends every night. Sounds like we struck out oden too.

Hey, a high pick isn't that bad. Some of us were hoping for giving them a better chance to win, or at least to back up the talk of a culture change. It seems like the same old aimless offseason, with the exception of mbah a moute. But facts are he was barely a rotation player on the bucks. Not sure what we are expecting out of him.

 

[jalfa]

I expected most of this last season as well. If you'll recall, his rebounding and scoring numbers went DOWN, not up. It's just really too bad we didn't get a shot blocker. Expecting cousins to do it all? Just don't see it working, based on it not working so far. He hasn't shown an ability to do it on both ends every night. Sounds like we struck out oden too.

eh. his scoring went down mostly because he took less shots. he has improved in his shooting efficiency each year, despite never getting a shot created for him, while being asked to create for everybody else. his rebounding has been better, but much of that came on the offensive side, his defensive rebounding has actually increased. this might be a system thing or just him getting fouled more/finishing more effectively and not cleaning up his own messes to quite the degree he did two years ago. these are the two things that worry me the least. the whole laundry list of new responsibilities is what concerns me.

 

[Chubbs]

eh. his scoring went down mostly because he took less shots. he has improved in his shooting efficiency each year, despite never getting a shot created for him, while being asked to create for everybody else. his rebounding has been better, but much of that came on the offensive side, his defensive rebounding has actually increased. this might be a system thing or just him getting fouled more/finishing more effectively and not cleaning up his own messes to quite the degree he did two years ago. these are the two things that worry me the least. the whole laundry list of new responsibilities is what concerns me.

Yeah, his early rebounding numbers were padded largely by his inability to finish at the rim, which also explains his kinda awful for a center shooting percentage thus far.

I agree, it's all the other stuff we're expecting him to suddenly do that is worrying. Sure, he can be better on defense. But he'll never be a dominant D force. Which is why they need to pair him with one. That's easier said than done, but drafting two more guards isn't even trying to address that long time glaring need. And signing landry is like doing the polar opposite of finding a shot blocker, ball moving, easy to play with teammate. Landry is none of those things. I'd have settled for at least one of those two attributes. Instead, the light sucking black hole that is landry is back. Everyone excited? Who is coming back next? The corpse of Mike Bibby?

To be fair to cousins, his assists did go up. But man, when was the last time someone got a shot for cousins? Maybe vazquez can do it, but I don't see Cousins as a PNR finisher. Just doesn't have the hops to do that like a young amare could. Which kinda makes it hard to see him becoming a 25+ per game scorer. Maybe being in better shape, drawing more fouls, fouling less, could get him to that level. I dunno though. He might be better off scoring less, dishing more. Same with the team as a whole. Of course, most of his teammates take a pass and never consider giving it back.

 

[King Baller]

one of the (many, many) things I'm worrying about: as of now, Cuz needs to anchor the defense, resolve his foul trouble issues, acquire an effective go-to post move, learn to be an effective pnr guy, solve all our rebounding problems, give maximum effort all the time, improve his conditioning to the point that he can do all this 36 minutes a game, 82 games a season, and be less of a headcase about all of it. that's asking a lot and with a guy as volatile as Cuz is, this might blow up in everybody's faces and I really do hope that they at least give him his extension soon, to send the message that they trust him to succeed with it.

You worry too much brother I think Cousins enjoys the bar being set high. He wants to win and understands it takes hard work to get there. It is critical the Kings show him the money/respect of the big contract.

KB

 

[jalfa]

Yeah, his early rebounding numbers were padded largely by his inability to finish at the rim, which also explains his kinda awful for a center shooting percentage thus far.

I agree, it's all the other stuff we're expecting him to suddenly do that is worrying. Sure, he can be better on defense. But he'll never be a dominant D force. Which is why they need to pair him with one. That's easier said than done, but drafting two more guards isn't even trying to address that long time glaring need. And signing landry is like doing the polar opposite of finding a shot blocker, ball moving, easy to play with teammate. Landry is none of those things. I'd have settled for at least one of those two attributes. Instead, the light sucking black hole that is landry is back. Everyone excited? Who is coming back next? The corpse of Mike Bibby?

To be fair to cousins, his assists did go up. But man, when was the last time someone got a shot for cousins? Maybe vazquez can do it, but I don't see Cousins as a PNR finisher. Just doesn't have the hops to do that like a young amare could. Which kinda makes it hard to see him becoming a 25+ per game scorer. Maybe being in better shape, drawing more fouls, fouling less, could get him to that level. I dunno though. He might be better off scoring less, dishing more. Same with the team as a whole. Of course, most of his teammates take a pass and never consider giving it back.

while I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything you say here (especially the defensive frontcourt partner), just one point about the pnr thing: Cuz, imo, can absolutely be an incredible weapon in pnr situations. while he might not be an explosive finisher in the Amare/Dwight mold, or even a lob target like Chandler or Drummond, he should have an advantage in making decisions after catching the ball on the roll. it's something that makes guys like the Davids Lee and West potent pnr players, they catch the ball on the roll and still have the wherewithal to survey the defense, find passes or figure out how to attack the now bent defense. it's also something that Cuz should be really good at, once the pnr becomes a staple of the offense.

You worry too much brother I think Cousins enjoys the bar being set high. He wants to win and understands it takes hard work to get there. It is critical the Kings show him the money/respect of the big contract.
KB

cannot disagree with that and while I agree with what you say about Cuz, I still worry (heh!) that he still hasn't really gotten any frontcourt help in the department that he himself (!) has identified as something he struggles with.

 

[macadocious]

he also kinda sucks at setting screens and tends to slip them a bit too much, as well. seeing though how important pnr has become, it's something he should be picking up tout de suite, even though he's going to have his plate full anyway.

Setting screens is a coaching issue, anyone can be taught to properly set screens. It's not that hard, and it's more mental about having the patience and knowledge of how long to hold it.

 

[sdballer]

We're one of the teams apparently out of the oden race but don't worry because we're interested in Lou Amundsun.

 

[Darren]

We're one of the teams apparently out of the oden race but don't worry because we're interested in Lou Amundsun.

 

[Chubbs]

Lou Amundson? That made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[Chubbs]

Lou Amundson? That made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Wow, that wasn't a joke. Why exactly would we be looking at a 30 year old with career average of 3.7 ppg and 3.6 rebounds?

 

[Bricklayer]

Wow, that wasn't a joke. Why exactly would we be looking at a 30 year old with career average of 3.7 ppg and 3.6 rebounds?

The only people who diss Louis Admundson are those jealous of his greatness.

Don't Hate the Playa!

 

[Chubbs]

The only people who diss Louis Admundson are those jealous of his greatness.

Don't Hate the Playa!

I think they just need another member of the boy band the kings players are starting. For his size, Lou can dance man.

 

[Kingsfan23]

From what I can recall there were some man-crushes on him the last time he was here.. Actually I thought he was a serviceable young, just as I did Songaila, Ronnie Price, Brockman, that just turned out to be scrubs

 

[Bricklayer]

From what I can recall there were some man-crushes on him the last time he was here.. Actually I thought he was a serviceable young, just as I did Songaila, Ronnie Price, Brockman, that just turned out to be scrubs

He never made it out of training camp. The biggest mancrushes belonged to the Maloofs, who reportedly made sure he was brought in just because he played for UNLV. Looking back, likely an attempt to have a hometown guy on the team when they moved it to Vegas.

 

[NewArena]

Exactly. It's something he should be PICKING UP, but some around here seem to have this idea that DMC is going to oh so love playing PnRs with Vasquez, as if he's always been a PnR player.

Who did he have to play it with anyway? We can't know what ANY of these guys like, with the crap we had "running" the last few years

 

[rainmaker]

Wow, that wasn't a joke. Why exactly would we be looking at a 30 year old with career average of 3.7 ppg and 3.6 rebounds?

Because he played for the Warriors.

 

[mac]

Because he played for the Warriors.

= Good. Cos Warriors have a long history of being perennial contenders.

 

[Kingsfan23]

The last post in this particular section of the forum is the last post I read last night, we are officially in the dead two months of the NBA season