Offseason Kings Thoughts, What's Next?

[pshn80]

I've read your and others discussion of the Landry signing. I realize its grave disappointment. The signing told me that " they" wanted him and they got him. I don't believe they think they paid too much for him so why should I?

 

[Npliam]

If Cousins isn't its hard to imagine what big man ever could be. He's one of the most talented offensive bigs I have ever seen. He's more skilled than Ewing, whop peaked out at 28.6ppg. Far more skilled than guys like Mourning or Dwight, who have been well up over 20.

I don't know that he's ready to average 25ppg this year. But the extreme skill level for a big makes it far more likely that he develops that goto post move he needs to make that possible. He's got the feel, footwork, hands, and coordination for it, and the strength and power to establish position.

While I generally agree with the sentiment that Cousins has incredible skills I don't think that they translate as well as the other players you mention. Ewing, for example could get a good shot off in the low post at any time he wanted Demarcus can't and I am not sure he will ever be able to. Ewing couldn't dribble the length of the floor and go around guys like DMC can but given the choice between the 2 skills I would pick Ewings every day.

 

[The Hammer]

While I generally agree with the sentiment that Cousins has incredible skills I don't think that they translate as well as the other players you mention. Ewing, for example could get a good shot off in the low post at any time he wanted Demarcus can't and I am not sure he will ever be able to. Ewing couldn't dribble the length of the floor and go around guys like DMC can but given the choice between the 2 skills I would pick Ewings every day.

They have different games. DMC is a far better shooter. That allows him to occasionally face up and often beat his man off the dribble. Cousins is also a far better passer, and we are talking right now, that punishes defenses for doubling. Even if Cuz only averages 22/12 but has 4-5 asst, that puts him up in that elite class in terms of production. Ewing was simply a great one v. one post player (and defender of course).

But you have to see how the put pressure on defenses (at least potentially) in different ways to accurately evaluate.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I've read your and others discussion of the Landry signing. I realize its grave disappointment. The signing told me that " they" wanted him and they got him. I don't believe they think they paid too much for him so why should I?

Because they might be wrong?

 

[Prince_XY]

Because they might be wrong?

The Landry signing.

I scratched my head in utter disbelief when it happened. And up to now the signing just doesn't make sense. The price is too high, length of the contract is too long, and he does not fit into our plan of putting premium in defense. If it was the burned-out Petrie who did the signing I probably would understand.

My friend once told me there could be some corruption or monkey business in the NBA between GMs and players. He said something like this: Guys, sign me for this much money for this long and I'll give you 10% commission under the table. I told my friend it is not probable, but now I am beginning to lean towards believing him.

 

[PurpleHaze]

On a side note: Nice to finally see one player removed and the one player remaining at top of KingsFans.com. Now hopefully that one remaining player will soon be firmly established as face of Sacramento Kings franchise going forward by both his on court play and max contract extension.

 

[Chubbs]

I've read your and others discussion of the Landry signing. I realize its grave disappointment. The signing told me that " they" wanted him and they got him. I don't believe they think they paid too much for him so why should I?

Because they DID pay too much for him. "They" are wrong.

 

[Chubbs]

In other news. Evans pops up as one of the worst moves of the offseason. For the pelicans. I hated to see him go, but maybe in the end we were right. It was just too much money (although I think he would have stayed here for less if we'd shown an ounce of interest in him). From ESPN:

"McNeill: New Orleans signing Tyreke Evans. It's hard to judge Evans because of the mess he dealt with in Sacramento, but I'm not convinced he's worth the money the Pelicans threw at him. I also have little idea how he'll fit with Eric Gordon and Jrue Holiday."

"Lynch: The Pelicans' addition of Tyreke Evans after nabbing Jrue Holiday was a pas de deux of surprise. It was shocking enough when New Orleans parlayed its sixth overall pick into Holiday. Bringing Evans and his $11 million salary on board, when his role is still undefined, doubled down on the confusion."

 

[Spike]

If anything, New Orleans has done a great job of collecting assets.

 

[Chubbs]

From Espn:

"SACRAMENTO KINGS | GRADE: C+
Additions: Ben McLemore (draft), Carl Landry (FA), Greivis Vasquez (trade), Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (trade), Ray McCallum (draft), Vivek Randive (owner), Pete D'Alessandro (GM), Mike Malone (coach)

Subtractions: Tyreke Evans (Pelicans), Toney Douglas (Warriors), Joe and Gavin Maloof (Owners), Geoff Petrie (GM), Keith Smart (coach)

Whatever I write about the Kings will likely be irrelevant. Kings fans won in April when the NBA announced that the league would reject the Maloofs' proposal to sell the franchise to a Seattle-based ownership group...

Long term prospects good. Short term, still pretty bad. That's about my take as well. Maybe that's by design.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

My friend once told me there could be some corruption or monkey business in the NBA between GMs and players. He said something like this: Guys, sign me for this much money for this long and I'll give you 10% commission under the table. I told my friend it is not probable, but now I am beginning to lean towards believing him.

That's just plain silly. "Dear employer: Please pay me more money than you think I am worth, and I will return some of it secretly. This benefits me in no way whatsoever. Thanks, Your employee."

 

[mac]

That's just plain silly. "Dear employer: Please pay me more money than you think I am worth, and I will return some of it secretly. This benefits me in no way whatsoever. Thanks, Your employee."

Not exactly. It's not the GM's money - it's the owner's. I'm not saying that it is true but it makes more sense than you seem to think. Example: Overpay player by 1mil/year - he gives 10% secret cut of $100k/year to GM. Player benefits by 900k, GM by 100k a year. Loser is the owner. I'm pretty sure some owners give their GMs enough freedom to overpay by 1 million or so.

 

[Gary]

For starters, I've never "pinned my hopes" on him. What I said was that I think he could develop into something special, which I believe to be possible due to his summer league performances, the finishing and ball handling ability he displayed, his 6'4 height as a point guard, and his 40 inch vertical. Not to mention the commitment he displayed by choosing to go to his father's school instead of the big-name places whom he recieved offers from.

Which all the info was common knowledge of course. But seeing your "45% chance he would succeed" post as well I was wondering if you saw something that most of us didn't see. McCallum isn't really a special player imo. He has a good chance at making the team but he's currently behind two better PGs so I don't think he will even dress much, if at all. We will probably be seeing him in Reno for part of the year. Now all that can change with injuries of course, but at this point I didn't see anything in summer league that I didn't see in many other players.

 

[Spike]

Long term prospects good. Short term, still pretty bad. That's about my take as well. Maybe that's by design.

It better be. I'd hate to think of the alternative.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Not exactly. It's not the GM's money - it's the owner's. I'm not saying that it is true but it makes more sense than you seem to think. Example: Overpay player by 1mil/year - he gives 10% secret cut of $100k/year to GM. Player benefits by 900k, GM by 100k a year. Loser is the owner. I'm pretty sure some owners give their GMs enough freedom to overpay by 1 million or so.

I see. So the wacko theory then is that PD'A is already stealing from Vivek.

You know what, I'll just put this down to PMSD (Post-Maloof Stress Disorder) and offer a big hug and an "Everything will be OK" to anyone who actually buys into this.

 

[Chupacabra]

That ESPN article didnt even mention that we now have Vasquez as opposed to Tyreke. This teams play may look alot better next year and Vasquez's role will have alot to do with that. Its kond of a disservice to us to not mention anything about the Evans-Vasquez trade.

 

[bajaden]

The bolded portion will impress me a lot more if it is revealed that he was something like the third option at Detroit. If he was the Number One option... yeah, color me significantly less impressed with his "commitment."

I do think that you have to take into consideration that he had offers from UCLA, Mich, and several other top schools in the nation. He was a McDonalds all american, and one of the top ranked highschool PG's in the nation. The very fact that he committed to his father at Detroit, and that now, people like you are questioning his abilities because of it, should make his decision more impressive. Had he gone to one of the major schools, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I was impressed with him at summer league. I'll admit that I only saw him play three times this year at Detroit. Some of the mid-level schools are on more than others because of recent success. Teams like Lehigh, and Bucknell. Hell, even South Dakota St. and North Texas St. were on more then Detroit. But if you constantly check the guides, you'll stumble across them. If your a pass first PG on a mid-level team, its a lot harder to make a splash than if your a scoring PG, like C.J. McCullum. Especially if you only have one player on the team that might get consideration for the NBA.

 

[NewArena]

If anything, New Orleans has done a great job of collecting assets.

If they all play in a confusing mess, and those stats plummet some more, they wont be worth much. Those contracts
aren't "assets" until they prove worthy.

 

[randymoss1881]

If we are not that bad by mid season (top 6) and cousins and mclemore or looking very good I hop we could get into the rondo sweepstakes. By offering our pick top 3 protected And Vasquez rondo would. Be a perfect fit on our team setting up mclemore and cousins while providing great defense.

 

[Bricklayer]

That ESPN article didnt even mention that we now have Vasquez as opposed to Tyreke. This teams play may look alot better next year and Vasquez's role will have alot to do with that. Its kond of a disservice to us to not mention anything about the Evans-Vasquez trade.

They were being nice.

 

[Gary]

I do think that you have to take into consideration that he had offers from UCLA, Mich, and several other top schools in the nation. He was a McDonalds all american, and one of the top ranked highschool PG's in the nation. The very fact that he committed to his father at Detroit, and that now, people like you are questioning his abilities because of it, should make his decision more impressive. Had he gone to one of the major schools, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I was impressed with him at summer league. I'll admit that I only saw him play three times this year at Detroit. Some of the mid-level schools are on more than others because of recent success. Teams like Lehigh, and Bucknell. Hell, even South Dakota St. and North Texas St. were on more then Detroit. But if you constantly check the guides, you'll stumble across them. If your a pass first PG on a mid-level team, its a lot harder to make a splash than if your a scoring PG, like C.J. McCullum. Especially if you only have one player on the team that might get consideration for the NBA.

I agree that we do have to look at his offers from mich and ucla, but I don't really think anyone has seen enough of the kid outside of the NIT game, summer league, and some clips online (except for you with the three games?)

I saw part of one game, and some summer league. He has potential, but he hasn't really impressed me enough to think he will get any time over IT or GV. Right now he's probably on the "3 piece suit patrol" behind the bench. I hope he succeeds though! It would be nice to finally have some size at our guard positions.

 

[Gary]

They were being nice.

Exactly. They could of slammed us for a Reke at PG project again.

 

[Gary]

If we are not that bad by mid season (top 6) and cousins and mclemore or looking very good I hop we could get into the rondo sweepstakes. By offering our pick top 3 protected And Vasquez rondo would. Be a perfect fit on our team setting up mclemore and cousins while providing great defense.

If MLM is scoring a lot of that will probably be from Vasquez. So hopefully if Vasquez is doing well and his D isn't terrible we could look at keeping him as well so we wouldn't have to go after Rondo. This year will be a huge test for Rondo as well.

I really like Rondo though and would love him on the Kings.

 

[ninjabiscuit]

If MLM is scoring a lot of that will probably be from Vasquez. So hopefully if Vasquez is doing well and his D isn't terrible we could look at keeping him as well so we wouldn't have to go after Rondo. This year will be a huge test for Rondo as well.

I really like Rondo though and would love him on the Kings.

I have a suspicion that Rondo is a really, really difficult person to get along with. I haven't read anything that specifically said that, although I know that he and Ray Allen apparently had some issues. Having said that, here's a blurb from Bill Simmons on the idea.

Look, I may or may not have been wasting inordinate amounts of time this summer on ESPN's Trade Machine making up fake Rondo trades. With Detroit out, one other Rondo suitor makes sense: the Kings. They're rebooting around a new arena, a new owner whom everyone loves (Vivek Ranadivé), a rejuvenated Boogie Cousins (at least that's the hope), and the chance to play an entire season without a Maloof involved. What about Rondo, Wallace's $30.3 million basketball cadaver and Jordan Crawford's expiring for Ben McLemore, the John Salmons–Patrick Patterson expirings, Greivis Vasquez, Jimmer Fredette and an unprotected no. 1 pick in 2014? (Thinking.) You're right, I need to get off the Trade Machine.
​

Of course, keep in mind that Simmons is a complete Celtics homer and has been using the Kings as suckers in hypothetical trades in his pieces for many years.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9522281/the-nba-midnight-run-part-2

 

[Darth Divac]

If MLM is scoring a lot of that will probably be from Vasquez. So hopefully if Vasquez is doing well and his D isn't terrible we could look at keeping him as well so we wouldn't have to go after Rondo. This year will be a huge test for Rondo as well.

I really like Rondo though and would love him on the Kings.

You and I seem to have different opinions of Rondo, then. Personally, I think he's an overrated, ball-dominant stat padder, but that's just my two cents.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I do think that you have to take into consideration that he had offers from UCLA, Mich, and several other top schools in the nation. He was a McDonalds all american, and one of the top ranked highschool PG's in the nation. The very fact that he committed to his father at Detroit, and that now, people like you are questioning his abilities because of it, should make his decision more impressive. Had he gone to one of the major schools, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

First of all, obligatory "What do you mean, you people?" [/TropicThunder]

Second of all, I never "questioned his abilities," or said anything of the sort. What I said was, if he passed up the chance to be the #1 Option at UCLA to be the #3 Option at Detroit, so that he could play for his dad, that's something to be lauded and impressed over. If he passed on the opportunity to be the #3 Option at UCLA to be the #3 Option at Detroit, that is also something to be lauded. If he even passed up the opportunity to be the #1 Option at Michigan to be the #1 Option at Detroit, then that's something to be lauded and impressed over, too. But, if he turned down being a little fish in a big pond, so that he could be the big fish in a goldfish bowl then, yeah... my "impressed" meter is hovering around zero.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You and I seem to have different opinions of Rondo, then. Personally, I think he's an overrated, ball-dominant stat padder, but that's just my two cents.

Well, to this point in their respective careers, Rondo is all of those things, and also still a good point guard. As New Orleans' team assists numbers seem to indicate, Vasquez may also be a ball-dominant stat-padder, but he hasn't necessarily proven that he is still a good point guard.

 

[Spike]

First of all, obligatory "What do you mean, you people?" [/TropicThunder]

Second of all, I never "questioned his abilities," or said anything of the sort. What I said was, if he passed up the chance to be the #1 Option at UCLA to be the #3 Option at Detroit, so that he could play for his dad, that's something to be lauded and impressed over. If he passed on the opportunity to be the #3 Option at UCLA to be the #3 Option at Detroit, that is also something to be lauded. If he even passed up the opportunity to be the #1 Option at Michigan to be the #1 Option at Detroit, then that's something to be lauded and impressed over, too. But, if he turned down being a little fish in a big pond, so that he could be the big fish in a goldfish bowl then, yeah... my "impressed" meter is hovering around zero.

Turned out ok for Delle Donne...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Turned out ok for Delle Donne...

And, as I clearly stated in the post you quoted, passing up a chance to be the big fish in a big pond to be the big fish in a small pond is still commendable, and EDD would have been the Number One Option, no matter who she played for. I neither object to chosing being a star in a small town over being a star in a big city, nor do I object to chosing to be a role player in a small town over a role player in a big city... I'm a Kings Fan, why would I? I do, however, take some exception to the notion that someone who chooses being the star of a team that's going nowhere over being a role player on a championship contender as being somehow virtuous.

A for A swaps are virtuous. C for C swaps are virtuous. A for C swaps are eyeroll worthy.

 

[bajaden]

I agree that we do have to look at his offers from mich and ucla, but I don't really think anyone has seen enough of the kid outside of the NIT game, summer league, and some clips online (except for you with the three games?)

I saw part of one game, and some summer league. He has potential, but he hasn't really impressed me enough to think he will get any time over IT or GV. Right now he's probably on the "3 piece suit patrol" behind the bench. I hope he succeeds though! It would be nice to finally have some size at our guard positions.

Maybe seeing him in person was more impressive. Don't know! But I was very impressed with his court vision and presence. He showed off good ballhandling ability. Lets remember that no one thought IT was going to be as good as he turned out to be. At the same place and time, McCallum is more of a true PG than IT is. Not a knock on IT, he is who he is. Both are very good athlete's, with little difference between them, other than height. And once again, the current brain trust seems to leaning very hard toward pass first PG's, which McCallum is.

Add in that IT is a restricted freeagent at seasons end, and he' likely to want a substantial raise, and I don't blame him. Along with IT, Vasquez will also be expecting more money. I don't see them retaining both, with McCallum under contract and very cheap. They could let IT walk if they don't trade him. They could also let Jimmer walk if they want, because his contract for the next year is a team option. There's a lot of flexability there, especially if they want to target a certain freeagent, and they need to clear capspace. I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but anyway I look at it, I see McCallum being a part of the future, and therefore he's likely to get minutes.