Official: Trade Core Pool

[Bricklayer]

captain bill, read my post :trade peja?? ....we are talking about the same thing...i mean that its wrong to trade peja if the system is same as 2 seasons ago...if its not i will agree on you...peja needs 4 others to be great...but why not find 2 more players and build the same team as 2 years ago???it was the best team seen long time in nba... I think this is WRONG question ....who will be traded, peja , bibby or brad...it should be : who should we trade of other players to make it the same team again....in my eyes thats the only chance to bring that game back...if one of those guys gets traded ( peja, bibby or brad ) it will never be the same again...I was a real fan of that team , and therefore i would do anything to bring it back..!!! If i started watching kings game last season i would not be kings fan...But i started watch them 2 seasons ago, and many around world bacame kings fan that year!!! you should know... Because it was pretty to watch, something special, other nba teams didnt had..!!and than it doesnt matter the money, the value of players , and who they can be traded for!!!Than you have teamplay and there is not need for superstars (( and on that team there were no superstars, the only one were webber but he was injured that year)) And i think its not unrealistic bringing it back, there should be one big man ( PF or C ) who is good to passing the ball who kings can sign...Offcourse finding one like vlades passing skills is impossible , because such big player does not exist !! But to find one that can pass the ball 80 procent as good as vlade is possible..!! To me its important the last 2 places on the team, besides peja bibby and brad.....

The only thing i CAN`T understand is how people ( not only people, kings fans!!! ) can forget that season so fast...!! That makes me unhappy !

But i would give you right : if team doesnt get the same again , if there is not those other 4 players who can do the job for peja , its better to trade him and get one who is more than shooter...but this is only if this is last option..offcourse threre are players out there who can replace doug and vlade!

And all people here can say is : Peja is only shooter...Yes , he is !!! that is his role..people here expect him to be superstar who can do everything...he is not!! The only thing that you blame( all of you in this board!!), is that you dont get the play from those 2 missing spot after vlade and doug has gone....and for this you blame either peja or brad or bibby...you find their weeknes to explain the unsucces of team...the reason for the team playing bad last year is not peja , bibby, or brad playing bad, they are perfect players on their spot ...!!

The reason is the 2 other spots , where vlade and doug were ...so dont find weekness in peja , brad, bibby...be real fans , support them!!! look at the good things they have done, and hope to fiind replecements for doug and vlade!!

And something you dont do: you have to suport the team and all of the players even if they loose ....you have to love the players on the team as you were one of them ...and something more, and most important....you have to look at bibby, peja, brad with your hart and not the head ( you sound like businessmen, like those players were something you can sell in supermarket or something!! ) ..you should love them and NEVER say you want trade them...only if it is the LAST way out...and offcourse this is not the last way out right now!!garcia has the same kind of skills as doug...kings only need a PF or C who can PASS the ball, and he can be a low level player, doesnt matter, he just have to be in the passing style of play...thomas and skinner are not...

We aren't trying to replace Vlade and Doug, we're trying to replace Webb and Doug. That is to say a borderline HOF power forward and a First Team All Defense OG. Who, just for the heck of it, were also just about the two best passers at their position of their era. Meanwhile our Vlade replacement (Brad) is actually a more limited player who can't play in the post and is not nearly as saavy on defense. But sure, we'll just put together a little Corliss/Tag package and bring back the old team, no prob. You know how many PFs can run our stuff at anywhere close to the level Webb did? 1. His name is KG. Maybe Thomas/Corliss/Tag for KG? Next closest guy might well be Antoine Walker. Yes, Twoine. Oh yay.

Times change. Players come and go. We have already traded away/lost half of the team because it was decided that that was what was best for the team. There is no difference here. I have said before the absolute worst thing that can be done is for this team to stupidly bumble on down the road more attached to a defunct system than to winning, and constantly trying to find and plug in lesser players because they fit our system rather than getting the best personnel possible. To become nothing more than a pale shadow of what we once had been because we are too cowardly to let go and move on.

You do what is right for the FRANCHISE, even if it means trading old hands (and they are beginning to sneak up on the downside of their careers now). When their time is up, when their utility is not what it once was, when their cost is higher than their benefit, when they are more valuable to you as a trading piece than as a player, when you can do better, its time to say goodbye. You ask how I am a Kings fan? Ignoring following the team for 20+ years, it is precisely because I am interested in seeing the KINGS win. Peja/Bibby/Miller are NOT the Kings. They are players. All have played for other teams, other countries, other coaches, in other systems before. Its entirely possible all will play on other teams etc. in the future. They were part of a special unit (well, not so much Miller) that functioned brilliantly together. While the unit was together, trading away a part of it was a serious deal because of how well they functioned as a unit. Trade one away, the rest of the unit might suffer. That is no longer the case. Now the remaining "core" players do NOT complement each other, nor do they do enough for the team to get us anywhere. And we are likely fresh out of miracles to bring in the sort of megatalents and all time great passers to resucitate their utility. So it is time to look at moving one or more of them. To find a new identity. To move on.

 

[tyrant]

trade miller and peja and a bench warner. get KG.

bibby
martin
garcia
KG
Ostertag

 

[sono]

what do you mean sono?

none of the players, I want to see be traded. I have no clue, even there's a trade that might involve one or two of these.

 

[emded0341]

Nice post! I must say...

I think we both are wright!!! I just look in the past to find the answer , you look in the future!! I think both of this things are better than do nothing....But i still think its better to look on the team 2 years ago...we dont need all time great passer like vlade, just a good passer...And:

that year when kings were best ever, webber were not there...vlade played the C and miller PF ...so the only difference is doug and vlade...

but something was speacial on that team and looking forward, moving on, it will destroy the chance of ever be like that again....but still its better than doing nothing, and let it be like last season..!

 

[emded0341]

sono...you are a real king fan

 

[Bricklayer]

that year when kings were best ever, webber were not there...vlade played the C and miller PF ...so the only difference is doug and vlade...

This may be part of the disagreement. That was far from our best year. We were already at that point in decline. Our defense sucked. We couldn't rebound. We looked pretty (against a weak first half schedule), but no way we survive the playoff wars with that team.

Years when we were actually dangerous were 01-02 and 02-03. Before age and injury chased down the three captains and the 6th man.

Oh well. Still got the old tapes. Still have the memories. But I'm greedy and would like some more in the future thanks.

 

[sono]

thanks emded0341,
Brick, I agree with emded, that was 2nd best shot to the title after 02. The Kings were leading the league.

 

[sloter]

This may be part of the disagreement. That was far from our best year. We were already at that point in decline. Our defense sucked. We couldn't rebound. We looked pretty (against a weak first half schedule), but no way we survive the playoff wars with that team.

Yeah, well that's been the case for the Kings every year since 98. Beat the weak teams up, and about even against serious teams.
Anyway, this whole thing is really annoying... any of the three players are flawed, and their flaws are heavily exploited in the playoffs:
- Bibby for his HORRIBLE defense
- Miller for his lack of athleticism and post up game (just look at whatever James did to him in the playoffs)
- Pedja for his lack of physical play/rebounding
But all that could be solved by getting the players who are willing to do the dirty work and are athletic enough.

Even though the majority tends to disagree, I am confident that the Kings won't give up Pedja unless he himself doesn't want to be in Sacramento next year. It was a similar situation with the Webber trade, not very many people thought it was possible and that it would be done, but Petrie still ditched him. I'd be surprised if he does it again because that would mean that he traded his team's two best offensive weapons.

 

[sloter]

thanks emded0341,
Brick, I agree with emded, that was 2nd best shot to the title after 02. The Kings were leading the league.

Of course it was, and what happened ? The key player during the regular season (Divac) got barely any playing time during the last part of the season and in the playoffs...........

 

[Bricklayer]

thanks emded0341,
Brick, I agree with emded, that was 2nd best shot to the title after 02. The Kings were leading the league.

So were the Mavs the previous year. So did the Suns this year. Means little if you don't play defense.

The 02-03 team would have mopped the floor with them. Not as pretty. But FAR more effective defensively. 03-04 was a mirage. Scratch the suface and you find a team unequipped to win when it matters. A bad defensive team hasn't won the title since the 70's at least, and likely never.

P.S. And just as an aside. Vlade quit on us that year. It was clear as day. And immensely disappointing from a man who otherwise was a class act. The way he played down the stretch, we might as well have kept Mass.

 

[uolj]

There really should be no question that the 01-02 team and the 02-03 team were the Kings best shot at a championship. I don't know how one can look at the team from the first half of 03-04 and think they had much chance at all of winning, let alone say it was better than the 01-02 team that was overtime in Game 7 away from being huge favorites in the finals and the 02-03 that was the favorite (or at least co-favorite with San Antonio).

 

[sloter]

P.S. And just as an aside. Vlade quit on us that year. It was clear as day. And immensely disappointing from a man who otherwise was a class act. The way he played down the stretch, we might as well have kept Mass.

Oh my god!!!

 

[emded0341]

i have started to see games 03-04....yes you are maybe wright in the past years...i cant say ...!but 03-04, that year they looked a championship team!! but we will never find out that, because webbers return did spoil that... he still is the best player of them, but he didnt fit into the style of game kings developed that year...!! And also he was not on top because being out so much...And when he returned he took the leader role, and that was wrong, cause that team didnt need a leader, cause it was perfect teamplay they build up in the year...BUT, i think they otherwise were favourites in the playoffs...I cant say in the years before...webber was there this years i know and probably the style of play was littlle different to adjust to webbers play....but yes they might have been even better years before....and it might cause disagreement ...but either way , to look back in past , search for replecments of webber and doug ......or vlade and doug......

we already have replecement of doug in garcia.....it looks so!

to find a player like webber and make the team like in 01-02 and 02-03 and not trade bibby, peja, miller ....hahahahahaha...haha

but finding player who can replace vlade and make the team like 03-04....that is possible....!!

now the question is if the people here WANT that team back like in 03-04??? Or they want look in future and trade some of this players which will totally turn this team into a whole different thing......

 

[sono]

Of course it was, and what happened ? The key player during the regular season (Divac) got barely any playing time during the last part of the season and in the playoffs...........

I don't think so the reason was the team chemestry.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh my god!!!

Yes quite.

My favorite King. But not while watching him mope through those three months. He marginalized himself, and we all said he was "resting" for the playoffs. Except he never quit resting. Things didn't go the way he had planned them, and he went south. Many things were about Vlade that year -- our and Peja's success, our failure, the good chemistry and the bad. Its too bad. I forgive him because of all the good he did for the franchise, but it was that squad's last shot and it would have been nice if their captain had showed up.

 

[sloter]

Brick, look at Vlade's minute before and after Webber. He had games towards the end of the season where he played 12 and 14 minutes and he barely played at all against the Mavs (had a game where ha played 4 minutes). He looked unhappy not to be on the court, and it was exactly Webber taking all of his minutes with the team playing like crap while he was on the floor. Against the Timberwolves he again didn't have a game where he played over 25 minutes... Go figure.

 

[AleksandarN]

I agree with the statement Peja can be replaced as a shooter, right now thats all he is,a jump shooter, for a 6-10 Forward to have no low post game and somewhat weak rebounding skills is just a waste...

If he is that limiting what do you realistically think we can get for a player like that?

 

[thesanityannex]

Which brings me to my point...while most of us wish to see a GP miricle trade that will net us a berth in the NBA playoffs next June the likelyhood of that happening, in one year, is nil. We have to steele ourselves for a minimum 2-3 year process, in my mind, to put us back where we were 3 years ago. And those of us who don't agree with this, I fear, are destined to some long, agonizing nights bitterly complaining about individuals who may or may not be hindering our ascent.

The Kings don't need a miracle trade to get a playoff berth, are you kidding. They somehow scavenged a season together last year, with all new faces, and still made the playoffs. The playoffs are the least of worries for me, I want a championship, or at least a run at it. If it all comes down to defense, like everyone here says, Stojakovic is not the problem. Miller is the easiest to trade and has the most obvious defensive weaknesses.

 

[funkykingston]

IMO Peja has the most trade value right now, while Miller's trade value is pretty much negligible at this point.

 

[Venom]

The Kings don't need a miracle trade to get a playoff berth, are you kidding. They somehow scavenged a season together last year, with all new faces, and still made the playoffs. The playoffs are the least of worries for me, I want a championship, or at least a run at it. If it all comes down to defense, like everyone here says, Stojakovic is not the problem. Miller is the easiest to trade and has the most obvious defensive weaknesses.

Miller only has the most obvious defensive weaknesses because nobody rotates. Once an opposing player penetrates the key, Miller is on an island, defending the goal all by himself. If Bibby, Peja, and Mobley weren't so busy admiring the play from the best seats in the house, hoping for an outlet pass and easy layup, we might see some real defense from the Kings. Miller only stands out so much because he is the last line of defense. In football, when there's a long TD pass, nobody questions why the D-line didn't create pressure, they only wonder how the safety got burned so bad. Such is Miller's plight.

 

[AleksandarN]

trade miller and peja and a bench warner. get KG.

bibby
martin
garcia
KG
Ostertag

That would make us the Minny team of the past. One and out. If we look at the old TWolves team that they had better tallent and still they went nowhere. KG is a great option but losing a Allstar Center in the middle will get us nowhere in the playoffs. The better trade would be Pedja and Bibby for KG. That way we would have less holes to fill because I think Bobby can fill in the role of Mike easier than Ostertag filling in for Brad. This team would be alot better

Bobby
Martin
Kenny thomas
KG
Brad Miller

 

[Bricklayer]

That would make us the Minny team fo the past. One and out. If look at the old TWolves team that they had better tallent and still went nowhere. KG is great option but losing a Allstar Center in the middle will get us nowhere in the playoffs. The better trade would be Pedja and Bibby for KG. That way we would have less wholes to fill because I think Bobby can fill in the role of Mike easier than Ostertag filling in for Brad. This team would be alot better

Bobby
Martin
Kenny thomas
KG
Brad Miller

Think the best fantasy KG trade is Peja/Miller, because Bibby is 100% built to combine with Garnett. And unlike Brandon (knees) or Cassel (age), Mike is still in his prime, and you are one player, Bonzi for instance, from being right there again as good as the Wolves were last year. Also need that ball handling and clutch ability come playoff time.

2nd best is Peja/Bibby so you can try to recreate the Vlade/Webb dynamic.

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick, look at Vlade's minute before and after Webber. He had games towards the end of the season where he played 12 and 14 minutes and he barely played at all against the Mavs (had a game where ha played 4 minutes). He looked unhappy not to be on the court, and it was exactly Webber taking all of his minutes with the team playing like crap while he was on the floor. Against the Timberwolves he again didn't have a game where he played over 25 minutes... Go figure.

There were reasons he was getting no minutes. He quit playing. And things spiraled. He played worse and worse, so we gave him fewer and fewer minutes, so he played worse and worse etc. etc. Lost his footing and standing on the team. Wasn't happy about the Webb situation, and ended up pouting and helping to drag down the whole team morale. All he had to do was make the best of it, stay positive, stay neutral, and the team morale does not collapse. Instead we ended up with opposing camps for the first time since the Kings era began (well first time in the locker room). For the first time since arriving in Sacto Vlade chose sides and ended up inadvertently becoming a divider rather than a uniter, he lost the following power struggle, and that changed everything for us chemistry-wise.

 

[AleksandarN]

Think the best fantasy KG trade is Peja/Miller, because Bibby is 100% built to combine with Garnett. And unlike Brandon (knees) or Cassel (age), Mike is still in his prime, and you are one player, Bonzi for instance, from being right there again as good as the Wolves were last year. Also need that ball handling and clutch ability come playoff time.

2nd best is Peja/Bibby so you can try to recreate the Vlade/Webb dynamic.

I think the first fantasy still lacks what all of the T'Wolves team in the past lacked a center. The trade I stated is a lot better team to build a contender with. Sign a player like Jaric or get Bonzi and that team is a contender plain and simple. Look at this

Jackson
Jaric/Wells
THomas
Garnet
Miller

That is one hell of team on the offensive and deffensive side of the ball. Petrie if you hear me make it happen.

 

[Bricklayer]

It could work. that is if we managed to get 82 games combined out of Bobby/Jaric.


As an aside, the Minnesota team last year finsihed first in the west and made the WCF with no center at all.

 

[AleksandarN]

It could work. that is if we managed to get 82 games combined out of Bobby/Jaric.


As an aside, the Minnesota team last year finsihed first in the west and made the WCF with no center at all.

but they lost in the WCF because they had not center to out help KG.

 

[Joker112]

Brick, look at Vlade's minute before and after Webber. He had games towards the end of the season where he played 12 and 14 minutes and he barely played at all against the Mavs (had a game where ha played 4 minutes). He looked unhappy not to be on the court, and it was exactly Webber taking all of his minutes with the team playing like crap while he was on the floor. Against the Timberwolves he again didn't have a game where he played over 25 minutes... Go figure.

Shouldn't signing another center to a big contract in the offseason been a sign that Vlade's minutes would be declining?

 

[bibbyweb]

People on this board does not remember what Peja has done for the Kings...And he has been underpaid all those years, and looking it this way kings own him alot money!!!!!! max contract or medium contract or small one, that is for me absolutely not that important....Its what you do for your team! Without Peja , kings would never had the best offense in west and in the nba.... This shooting mixed with passing is absolutely the best basketball one can watch!! barry and korver are NOT Peja .... This guy is maybe the best shooter in the history ...he is sure in the top 3 spot..!!! I have been reeding posts here for long time, and I dont understand how people here can call themself Kings fans!!!! I have never watched a kings game in real , but most of them in tv....If all kings fans has this vision on Peja ( Or Bibby or Miller ) ...its best for him to move.....Just one unsuccesfull season of a team makes all this statements from people who should suppose to be kings fans..!!!! Its miserable.....Talking like that you can for somebody who hasnt done alot for kings ( exampels are mobley, ostertag, i dont know ) ...but talking like that about peja, bibby or miller who has done so much for this team..its not acceptable for kings fans....I begin to wonder....are there real fans in sacramento??? who are trustfull and loyal to their players even if they end up last in the league???!!!! in the end, its the fans who make players feel comfortable in a club, and that make them proform better...!!!

Some really funny stuff here. "Are there real fans in Sac?" If you are talking about a player really doing something for the Kings there would be atleast 10 names that would come up before Peja. Agreed that he has been an important components for the Kings for the past few years. But he is definitely not the soul of the Kings. And over the years he has earned a reputation of being a choker in pressure situations and someone who winds up once a good defender is on him. His attitude towards the game and his hunger to win is simply pathetic. If we are getting a good player in retun we should trade him in a heartbeat.

 

[BigSong]

Miller only has the most obvious defensive weaknesses because nobody rotates. Once an opposing player penetrates the key, Miller is on an island, defending the goal all by himself. If Bibby, Peja, and Mobley weren't so busy admiring the play from the best seats in the house, hoping for an outlet pass and easy layup, we might see some real defense from the Kings. Miller only stands out so much because he is the last line of defense. In football, when there's a long TD pass, nobody questions why the D-line didn't create pressure, they only wonder how the safety got burned so bad. Such is Miller's plight.

i've said this on a few occasions...no one believed me however.

 

[captain bill]

Some really funny stuff here. "Are there real fans in Sac?" If you are talking about a player really doing something for the Kings there would be atleast 10 names that would come up before Peja. Agreed that he has been an important components for the Kings for the past few years. But he is definitely not the soul of the Kings. And over the years he has earned a reputation of being a choker in pressure situations and someone who winds up once a good defender is on him. His attitude towards the game and his hunger to win is simply pathetic. If we are getting a good player in retun we should trade him in a heartbeat.

10 names? Hardly. It's one thing to say that he isn't the heart and soul of the franchise. It's another to dismiss what he has done for this team so completely out of hand. And while Peja has choked up in very critical situations, it's not to say that he can't shoot when he's well defended. My favorite memories of Peja are games when guys would stick their hands right in front of Peja's face and he'd still bury threes from outside. Over the years he has done a lot for this team, and no matter how much he is a product of the system, you can't just plug anyone in there and make them 2nd in the league in scoring. The guys has been having serious problems ever since Webber returned. I think it is time to move on, and I would trade him because it is extremely difficult to build around such a player, no matter how good.