Now that things are starting to gel a little...

[Section 101]

And the point is that this team does not need LeBron James type player to get over the hump (though it definetely wouldn't hurt).

My point is that id from that list we keep Dalembert, sign Nene and Prince, draft a good guard with our pick or get one via trade, we would be a play off team next year and contender for years after that. This is the line up we are talking about here:

C: Cousins
PF: Nene
SF: Prince
SG: Evans
PG: Udrih

Bench consisting of Dalembert, Casspi, Garcia, Thompson (although would likely trade him for that 3rd guard), Draft pick, Whiteside, Jeter

The front court rotation of Cousins (with another year of development), Nene and Dalembert would be beastly night in night out.

Prince would provide length, defence and long range shooting while stabilizing the SF position and giving Omri more time to develop and mature as a player.

Evans, Beno, Garcia and the drafted rookie and/or traded in guard woudl stabilize the backcourt and provide us with some depth.

That team is good enough to be a play off team in the West next year and with another trade and/or signing or 2 along the way would be contending in 2-3 years.

The point is that we don't need the main guys from the free agency. Those guys are already here!

Like I said in my post, most are predicting Nene takes the last year at $11.1 mil. He may not be able to get that much under a new CBA. Don't forget he had cancer a few years back too so that may be a factor especially for insuring the contract.

I'm not a Prince fan. He turns 31 this month and will be at the point you dont want to give players a long term deal. This could be a trap for a team that gives him max length deal. Now Wilson Chandler would be a cheaper and younger option in he same mold, but he's also restricted. Depending on the Melo situtation he could be non restricted if the Knicks need his cap space.

 

[Asaf]

I'll chime in here. And this is something I was talking about a few months ago. See the funny things is, Brick is probably right. But we should differentiate between talent and team record/performance. The latter takes time to develop. Chemistry, guys learning each other's games, etc. But on talent alone, you've got to say that DMC is a top three center, RIGHT NOW. And on talent alone you'd also have to say that Tyreke is a top 10 guard (not just point guard) right now. He's pretty much owned Chris Paul since their first match-up. Not many guys can say that. Throw in the other three, plus our bench, and another half season to mature and yeah, we're right there, talent wise.

I know it's funny to think of the Kings in that way, but sometimes there is a bit of lag time when a team turns the corner. Fans are still used to thinking of them as cellar dwellars, and it affects the perception of the team, even as things change. But that'll catch up.

Keep in mind our frontcourt just completely shut down in a non fluke way the supposed best frontcourt in the league, that one team from LA. To quote Ricky Bobby: "That. Just. Happened."

No offense, but that's the sort of thinking that would never happen if you were not a Kings fan.

I think Cousins is a beast, but he's got to have more than 4 consecutive good games to be considered a top-3 center (although in a league with only about 6 centers he will probably get there pretty soon).

Tyreke is NOT a top-10 guard. Not by a longshot. His talent should get him there one day, but so far his learning curve hasn't shown that it will be any time soon, and while his foot/ankle might have had something to do with that, that's certainly not the whole story. He needs to improve his outside shot, his defense, his off-the-ball game, and his chemistry with the rest of the team in order to get there. While he has sort of worked on his shot, I haven't seen anything that would indicate that he is interested in working on those other aspects, and that's what worries me the most about him. So while I would gladly bank on Cousins becoming a dominant force in the league, I would hesitate to put my money on Tyreke as a future superstar who can carry a team to a title.

And try telling anyone in the league (who is not a Kings fan) that a Tyreke/Beno/Prince/Nene/Cousins lineup is more talented than a Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett/Shaq lineup, a Kobe/Fish/Artest/Bynum/Gasol lineup, a Rose/Korver/Deng/Boozer/Noah lineup, or even a Wade/scrub1/LeBron/Bosh/scrub2 lineup, and they will most likely offer to buy you a beer as a thank you for providing them with a good laugh.

 

[est.1999]

That's a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it?...

Not really. Everyone on that list has all star ability(except for beno). Who can really say that?

 

[kingsfan101]

And like I said he free agents next year are crap.

Here is a hoopsworld ranking of the FA. http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17517 Older one because Parker signed an extension.

If you look at per right now Zack Randolph is the highest at 22.2.
Nene 21.39 (player option, most think he will not opt out)
Duncan 21.37 (player option)
West 20.89
Melo 20.18
Chandler 18.86
Ak47 -16.41
Barbosa 16.48
Crawford 16.15
Prince 16.03
Landry 15.18
Dalembert 13.08

While it's likely too premature to even conjecture, particularly in light of the new CBA, another possible use of cap space is via trades. We can just absorb a salary, giving virtually nothing back. OKC used this very shrewdly over the last few years, picking up several assets from teams that wanted to get under the LT.

Typically, this wouldn't be very useful to pick a high level player, as no team shall give one away. OKC got some nice young players, and picks for renting their space. This itself is not bad, but if we want to turn things around quicker, we shall need to sweeten the deal with some assets. Fortunately, we do have a few; a high draft pick, plus, young prospects like Omri, Jason, should we choose to trade for some game changer. Have heard names like DG and AI being thrown around, and while Indiana and Philly shall want more, if the new CBA is more restrictive, we might have a big opportunity this way.

 

[Asaf]

Not really. Everyone on that list has all star ability(except for beno). Who can really say that?

No one on that list has ever participated in an all star game...

 

[ParniValjak]

No one on that list has ever participated in an all star game...

But both Prince and Nene have been border line all-stars for most of their careers. There have been MANY MANY good players over the years that are talented enough to play in the all-star game but never played in one. If anything, Kings should be aware of this with players like Bibby and Martin in recent history.

Even Ron Artest has only played in one all-star game despite being one of the league's best two way players in his prime!

I would be more than comfortable rolling out Cousins/Nene/Dalembert frontcourt rotation against ANY team and I mean ANY team in the league. They would abuse any front court night in night out. Whether its the Lakers, whether its the Celtics, I would be confident of winning that battle 99 times out of 100!

Its not a case of getting 5 all-stars into the starting 5. Its about getting 2 players that have all-star talents (as mentioned previously Nene and Prince have been borderline all-stars for majority of their career) but are capable of and are happy to defer to Cousins and Evans.

Every one of the players (except for Beno) could be consistent 20 point players but the great thing about Nene and Prince is that they are 2 way players.

Like I said, with the continuous development of our young players (Cousins, Evans and Casspi), keeping Dalembert and addition of two steady and capable vets in Nene and Prince you will content in 2-3 years time from now.

And in 2 years time, Celtics are on the verge of rebuild and Lakers are on a downward spiral with Kobe declining (there is a LOT of miles in those legs).

I love what the Bulls have done but I would take my proposed line up over their's any day of the week. Rose is better than Evans and while Boozer is an all-star Cousins WILL be a LOT LOT better!

Like I said, give me a line up of Beno, Evans, Prince, Nene, Cousins backed up by Dalembert, Casspi, Garcia, Thompson and/or another guard and I am confident of winning any 7 game series. That line up is potent offensively and defensively.

And just on Cousins, for the entire month of January he was a 17.2 pts, 7.8 rebs, 2.5 asts, 1 blk, 1.1 stls, 46%FG in 28.4 mpg that on its own is good enough for a top 3 C in the league.

He has been getting better from month to month and its not far fetched to believe that he could be a 20/10 player by as early as next season. Hell its not too far out of the realms of possibility that he averages 20/10 for a month before the season is out.

Evans and Cousins are perennial all-stars in the making and adding some borderline all-star talent to them would make them one of the most talented line ups in the league and arguably the most talented.

 

[ParniValjak]

Like I said in my post, most are predicting Nene takes the last year at $11.1 mil. He may not be able to get that much under a new CBA. Don't forget he had cancer a few years back too so that may be a factor especially for insuring the contract.

I'm not a Prince fan. He turns 31 this month and will be at the point you dont want to give players a long term deal. This could be a trap for a team that gives him max length deal. Now Wilson Chandler would be a cheaper and younger option in he same mold, but he's also restricted. Depending on the Melo situtation he could be non restricted if the Knicks need his cap space.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Even if Nene does not test FA (and there were rumblings that he would because he is piossed off about all the attention going Melo's way) remember that Denver are prepared to blow up the team if (or should that be when) Melo leaves. The practically wanted to trade Billups and Melo to blow it up. They would not want to keep Nene in the re-build so the big chance is that they would be open to trading Nene for young pieces and/or picks. This is where Thompson might come in along with the future pick (next year) which would not be a lottery pick unless we are struck with massive injury bug.

The capspace and assets that we have ensures that we will can get our players in more ways than one!

 

[The Hammer]

No offense, but that's the sort of thinking that would never happen if you were not a Kings fan.

I think Cousins is a beast, but he's got to have more than 4 consecutive good games to be considered a top-3 center (although in a league with only about 6 centers he will probably get there pretty soon).

Tyreke is NOT a top-10 guard. Not by a longshot. His talent should get him there one day, but so far his learning curve hasn't shown that it will be any time soon, and while his foot/ankle might have had something to do with that, that's certainly not the whole story. He needs to improve his outside shot, his defense, his off-the-ball game, and his chemistry with the rest of the team in order to get there. While he has sort of worked on his shot, I haven't seen anything that would indicate that he is interested in working on those other aspects, and that's what worries me the most about him. So while I would gladly bank on Cousins becoming a dominant force in the league, I would hesitate to put my money on Tyreke as a future superstar who can carry a team to a title.

And try telling anyone in the league (who is not a Kings fan) that a Tyreke/Beno/Prince/Nene/Cousins lineup is more talented than a Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett/Shaq lineup, a Kobe/Fish/Artest/Bynum/Gasol lineup, a Rose/Korver/Deng/Boozer/Noah lineup, or even a Wade/scrub1/LeBron/Bosh/scrub2 lineup, and they will most likely offer to buy you a beer as a thank you for providing them with a good laugh.

Name three centers that are better than Cousins right now. Not two months ago. Right now.

You haven't seen anything that indicates he's interested in improving his off ball game? Have you watched the past 5 games? His defense? He's the best defender on the Kings, and in the top 20 percent defensively for guards in the league.

It's precisely each of those aspects of his game that you listed that has shown improvement over the last month, with the possible exception of his defense, which was already high level NBA defense, has been since day one, you know, when he was 20. And especially the chemistry, and especially the chemistry with Cousins.

You definitely lost me on all that. By the way his shot has looked good the last few weeks.

If you think it's exaggeration to state the talent of that lineup, your post is more exaggeration-- to the negative.

 

[Tetsujin]

Name three centers that are better than Cousins right now. Not two months ago. Right now.

Darko Milicic, Darko Milicic, Darko Milicic. There

 

[Asaf]

Name three centers that are better than Cousins right now. Not two months ago. Right now.

Just off the top of my head: Dwight Howard, Pao Gasol, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bogut, Chris Kaman.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Cousins, and if there is one player on this team that I think is on the sure path to becoming a superstar, it's him. But it will take him a few years to get there. To think that his progress will be linear and there will be no bumps in the road is just as silly as thinking that Tyreke's 20/5/5 means he will be the next LeBron.

As for Tyreke, I don't know how anyone could've watched the 4th quarter against the Lakers and not be concerned about his priorities. I certainly think Tyreke can become an allstar, but his path is going to be a lot bumpier than some of you guys think, and there is absolutely no guarantee that he will get there.

Look, I am one of those who think we have way more talent than our record shows, which is why I've attributed our horrible play this season mainly to the coach. But regardless of coaching, thinking that adding freaking Tayshaun Prince and Nene Hilario to a 12-33 team will make that team a favorite to win a playoff series against the Lakers, Celtics, SA, Miami, or Chicago is just plain ridiculous.

 

[The Hammer]

Just off the top of my head: Dwight Howard, Pao Gasol, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bogut, Chris Kaman.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Cousins, and if there is one player on this team that I think is on the sure path to becoming a superstar, it's him. But it will take him a few years to get there. To think that his progress will be linear and there will be no bumps in the road is just as silly as thinking that Tyreke's 20/5/5 means he will be the next LeBron.

As for Tyreke, I don't know how anyone could've watched the 4th quarter against the Lakers and not be concerned about his priorities. I certainly think Tyreke can become an allstar, but his path is going to be a lot bumpier than some of you guys think, and there is absolutely no guarantee that he will get there.

Look, I am one of those who think we have way more talent than our record shows, which is why I've attributed our horrible play this season mainly to the coach. But regardless of coaching, thinking that adding freaking Tayshaun Prince and Nene Hilario to a 12-33 team will make that team a favorite to win a playoff series against the Lakers, Celtics, SA, Miami, or Chicago is just plain ridiculous.

I give you Howard. Not Bogut. Not Noah. Pau plays mostly as a PF, but I might not give you him regardless, we say what happened Friday. Maybe Kaman, but I still take DMC over him if I'm building a one time team to win one game.

 

[Bricklayer]

Look, I am one of those who think we have way more talent than our record shows, which is why I've attributed our horrible play this season mainly to the coach. But regardless of coaching, thinking that adding freaking Tayshaun Prince and Nene Hilario to a 12-33 team will make that team a favorite to win a playoff series against the Lakers, Celtics, SA, Miami, or Chicago is just plain ridiculous.

I think that adding Tayshaun Prince and Nene Hilario (as the examples put forth), and a Top 10 pick, and adding a year of experience under the belts of Reke/Cousins and whatever other kids are still here would absolutely make us one of those young and dangerous teams that scares people and falls to the veteran team in the playoffs. OKC of last year.

And I think people, as always, are just mentally driving around big 1970s Oldmobiles with big sloppy soft handling. It takes them forever to be able to make a u-turn and they get caught making arguments that were relevant yesterday not today.

This team is getting more and more competitive almost by the week, both its young stars have started to surge and they are of an age and stage in their development when they could keep on getting better for years. Right now, with a team full of kids who've had a bruising half season, the team has basically been playing even with all comers for a month now. Only tommorow's opponent (Boston) has clearly outclassed them. Otherwise they have been every bit as good as every team they have faced, until the very end od the game. And that will come. That is a normal part of having a young team. You take a team with two young stars on the way up in every game every night and add two high quality playoff/championship experienced vets to take over and steady its two weakest positions, and you better believe that team is absolutley primed to take a huge step forward.

People also routinely overestimate every opponent and player around the league not in Sacramento, because they don't watch them enough and don't see all their flaws on display. the grass is alays greener. My statement was not an exaggeration about the talent of that sample lineup. I was of course considering bench dpeth as well, but the only team I really considered was the Lakers. I should have considered Miami, although that's tough because there is sucha clean break between their stars and then various garbage. That's about it. If you want to ignore the Celtics age and go there, fine. If you want to go with the Bulls instead, that's fine. But those are the level teams you have to break out to get a comparison. When you've got two of the league's best kids and Beno is your 5th best starter you are by definiton a highly highly talented crew.

 

[mac]

I give you Howard. Not Bogut. Not Noah. Pau plays mostly as a PF, but I might not give you him regardless, we say what happened Friday. Maybe Kaman, but I still take DMC over him if I'm building a one time team to win one game.

Cousins has lots of potential but at this point I'm gonna have to agree with Asaf. Dwight Howard, Pau and Kaman have proven way way more than Cousins. If you're talking about who's going to be better in 2 years then you've got a very legit argument, but till then I'm gonna take any of the guys that Asaf mentioned over Cousins if I wanted to win now. Some guys have been bugged by injury of course, so I'm consider their pre-major injury careers - Andrew Bogut last year, and Yao before he decided that it's easier to just sit on the bench and get paid millions every year than to actually play. Same goes with Kaman.

As for Tyreke, again, strictly based on who I'd pick now to win a game (and assuming they aren't injured)- Kobe, Wade, Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Rondo, Derrick Rose, Ginobili, Russell Westbrook.

It's a little hard to compare Tyreke with some of the players I listed above, like Rondo and Nash who are more pure PGs, and I suppose the rest of the lineup that is in the game with whichever guard you pick makes a difference as well. But if we're talking production, consistency, and who's probably going to contribute more to winning the game at this point, I'm going with the guys I stated above. Still, all of them have more experience that Evans and also are in winning systems (which they are a big part of). And IMO, Tyreke will not surpass any of these guys till he becomes a better outside shooter/ Nash just becomes too old at last.

 

[JJ22L]

No offense, but that's the sort of thinking that would never happen if you were not a Kings fan.

I think Cousins is a beast, but he's got to have more than 4 consecutive good games to be considered a top-3 center (although in a league with only about 6 centers he will probably get there pretty soon).

Tyreke is NOT a top-10 guard. Not by a longshot. His talent should get him there one day, but so far his learning curve hasn't shown that it will be any time soon, and while his foot/ankle might have had something to do with that, that's certainly not the whole story. He needs to improve his outside shot, his defense, his off-the-ball game, and his chemistry with the rest of the team in order to get there. While he has sort of worked on his shot, I haven't seen anything that would indicate that he is interested in working on those other aspects, and that's what worries me the most about him. So while I would gladly bank on Cousins becoming a dominant force in the league, I would hesitate to put my money on Tyreke as a future superstar who can carry a team to a title.

And try telling anyone in the league (who is not a Kings fan) that a Tyreke/Beno/Prince/Nene/Cousins lineup is more talented than a Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett/Shaq lineup, a Kobe/Fish/Artest/Bynum/Gasol lineup, a Rose/Korver/Deng/Boozer/Noah lineup, or even a Wade/scrub1/LeBron/Bosh/scrub2 lineup, and they will most likely offer to buy you a beer as a thank you for providing them with a good laugh.

I am a Kings homer like the rest of you but, unfortunately, I have to agree with this.

Now, if we are talking about this from a 2013 perspective and Cousins and Reke have grown to the potential that we think they have, and the Celtics old guys have retired, and Bosh turns out to be the scrub I have always thought he was, then maybe, just MAYBE, we would be top 3.

 

[FaStRmAn]

And the point is that this team does not need LeBron James type player to get over the hump (though it definetely wouldn't hurt).

My point is that id from that list we keep Dalembert, sign Nene and Prince, draft a good guard with our pick or get one via trade, we would be a play off team next year and contender for years after that. This is the line up we are talking about here:

C: Cousins
PF: Nene
SF: Prince
SG: Evans
PG: Udrih

Bench consisting of Dalembert, Casspi, Garcia, Thompson (although would likely trade him for that 3rd guard), Draft pick, Whiteside, Jeter

The front court rotation of Cousins (with another year of development), Nene and Dalembert would be beastly night in night out.

Prince would provide length, defence and long range shooting while stabilizing the SF position and giving Omri more time to develop and mature as a player.

Evans, Beno, Garcia and the drafted rookie and/or traded in guard woudl stabilize the backcourt and provide us with some depth.

That team is good enough to be a play off team in the West next year and with another trade and/or signing or 2 along the way would be contending in 2-3 years.

The point is that we don't need the main guys from the free agency. Those guys are already here!

Love your analysis. However there is one small change I would make on your list. I know it wont be popular, but hear me out. I say they either trade or just outright cut Cisco. I think Carrot Top Napier said it best durring a telecast of a game when they showed Cisco in his Armani suit. Jerry commented on how good Cisco looked in the suit and Grant replied" Francisco has been looking good too often lately." That speaks volumes about where Cisco is at this point in his career. He had NEVER played a full 82 game season. Since '05-'06 season he has played 67-79-79-65-25-35 games per year. Significant is the last two seasons and this season in which he is hurt yet again. I think we can all see the trend that clearly points out that Cisco is brittle. He is injured way too often for a guard that almost never drives to the rim. He is an outside shooter, yet his career average is .44/.37 2/3ball. Not very stellar numbers for a player often sporting an Armani suit behind the bench. I think the Kings will either trade Garcia or just let him walk. The KIngs need a younger better shooting guard to come off the bench and score. If Garcia could stay healthy, he makes a decent SF, but playing those bigger players seems to make Cisco even MORE brittle than ever. I say it is time to move on no matter how popular a player Garcia is. There are several free agent 2's and 3's that are less brittle and better scorers than Cisco. I understand he is the veteran on this team for now, but as Evans and Cousins come into their own, the team will belong to them, not Cisco. And that is not even mentioning the fact that Cisco on defense is not exactly a defensive stopper. In fact, Cisco is one of the poorer defenders on the team. I say cut loose players who wear suits too often during the season. It may not be Cisco's fault, but a healthy athletic body is needed to play in the NBA. Cisco can't help the team that much from behind the bench no matter how well he dresses.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am a Kings homer like the rest of you but, unfortunately, I have to agree with this.

Now, if we are talking about this from a 2013 perspective and Cousins and Reke have grown to the potential that we think they have, and the Celtics old guys have retired, and Bosh turns out to be the scrub I have always thought he was, then maybe, just MAYBE, we would be top 3.

That is what talent is -- talent is an absolute. You have it or you don't. Its not about being mature, or being in your prime, or being saavy.

 

[Bricklayer]

Love your analysis. However there is one small change I would make on your list. I know it wont be popular, but hear me out. I say they either trade or just outright cut Cisco. I think Carrot Top Napier said it best durring a telecast of a game when they showed Cisco in his Armani suit. Jerry commented on how good Cisco looked in the suit and Grant replied" Francisco has been looking good too often lately." That speaks volumes about where Cisco is at this point in his career. He had NEVER played a full 82 game season. Since '05-'06 season he has played 67-79-79-65-25-35 games per year. Significant is the last two seasons and this season in which he is hurt yet again. I think we can all see the trend that clearly points out that Cisco is brittle. He is injured way too often for a guard that almost never drives to the rim. He is an outside shooter, yet his career average is .44/.37 2/3ball. Not very stellar numbers for a player often sporting an Armani suit behind the bench. I think the Kings will either trade Garcia or just let him walk. The KIngs need a younger better shooting guard to come off the bench and score. If Garcia could stay healthy, he makes a decent SF, but playing those bigger players seems to make Cisco even MORE brittle than ever. I say it is time to move on no matter how popular a player Garcia is. There are several free agent 2's and 3's that are less brittle and better scorers than Cisco. I understand he is the veteran on this team for now, but as Evans and Cousins come into their own, the team will belong to them, not Cisco. And that is not even mentioning the fact that Cisco on defense is not exactly a defensive stopper. In fact, Cisco is one of the poorer defenders on the team. I say cut loose players who wear suits too often during the season. It may not be Cisco's fault, but a healthy athletic body is needed to play in the NBA. Cisco can't help the team that much from behind the bench no matter how well he dresses.

Sigh.

Where do people come up with these things? And why?

 

[JJ22L]

That is what talent is -- talent is an absolute. You have it or you don't. Its not about being mature, or being in your prime, or being saavy.

That's great and all, but talent is irrelevant if it is not groomed and utilized. I would assume a one year old does not have the inherent talent to be a professional basketball player, no? He or she was probably groomed up through elementary school, high school, college, etc. This doesn't even take into account the premise that talent without IQ usually precludes a player from living up to their abilities (of which we have seen several examples).

A prime example of this is futbol. In other nations, futbol is the life-blood that drives the sporting world. Here, well, it is not. Can you tell a difference in the skill level of the US national team relative to other national teams? Hell yes you can. Does that mean we have less talented players? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. Environmental conditions are critical in helping to grow talent. On a global scale, the diversity in skill level between cultures that are absorbed in futbol, and the cultures that are not, is more than just a coincidence.

So, on a "future talent" standpoint, based on the last month's worth of growth, then yes, that would be one of the most talented squads in the league. However, taking a more holistic approach, talent still needs to be positioned correctly.

But, based on the entirety of the last two seasons + the arena debacle + moving speculations, I still think that comparing that projected squad to the current squads of Boston, Miami, or the Lakers, or any other current squad that has not only talent, but also experience, continuity, and consistency on its side, is misplaced.

Talent is interpreted through a certain context, and usually that context is winning. The way Westphal was handling his rotations I think helped cultivate the "we are the least talented team" approach (which I completely disagree with - I feel that we have tremendous talents). When we start to win, the sentiment that "we are talented" will start to grow (as it has recently). Everything is relative. For me, that is the only absolute.

I guess what I am trying to say is, evaluating a future squad on talent alone seems....useless without proper context (see 2004 Pistons squad which consisted of congruent pieces vs. Lakers squad with Payton, Malone, etc).

 

[Tyndel]

Just a note about Rondo. Teams are starting to figure out he can't hit from outside 5 feet so defenses are sagging off him in marshmallow fashion and able to play better team defense against the Celts these days. Rondo is a good facilitator and has good court vision but he is very very overrated as a pure point because he can't shoot. I hope we take this into account tonight.

Edit
Definitely not top 3 PG material until he can keep the defense honest.

 

[rhythmless]

Name three centers that are better than Cousins right now. Not two months ago. Right now.

If you think it's exaggeration to state the talent of that lineup, your post is more exaggeration-- to the negative.

What does right now entail? The last game? Who had a better last 2 games? Is that your metric? or 5 games? Or 10? What the hell does that even mean? Anyone can put up a better month than anyone else. Look at DJ augustin. Better numbers than Tony Parker in January. Is he better than Tony Parker? You are purposely limiting sample size. In addition, you are using recent numbers and putting them down as a trend, when it is way to early to tell whether these are anomolies or not.

Better centers/arguably better?

Dwight, Horford, Noah, Jefferson, Bogut, Nene.

All shoot better, all rebound better (with the exception of Nene), all are more efficient than Cousins. You can argue w/Noah's stats, but he is a defensive force in a way that Battier is.

I like Cousins. I wnated him. I still do. I have a longstanding bet that he will put it all together. But he's not top 3. Bubble top 5. I'll give you that, but most of the nation could argue very well that there are three centers above him.

 

[pshn80]

Now that things are getting a little better ------ . Do we have to trade, draft, sign a free agent? For my part now that we have a win streak of two, let's see how long it takes us to get to three. Let's enjoy a team that's playing better. You don't have to rate Cousins among centers - he's doing well and if he keeps it up and we win games because of it, that will be a thrill. Our guys have faults and most seem to be improving. Maybe our team will be better yet in 20 days. Maybe March will be a breakthrough. Will Tyreke's jump shot improve more over the next weeks? Can Cousins maintain his phenominal improvement? Will Beno get even more comfortable in his role?

With all these things at play I'm not inspired to think about who to acquire, who to dump, trade, off. I'm going to the Celtics game tonight, so who we might have next year means nothing. We have thirty something games left this season. I'm looking for wins and, along the way hopefully, lots of fun.

 

[Superman]

its old hat by now to reference the oklahoma city thunder's rise to playoff contention in the west, but, apart from drafting james harden with the #3 pick in the '09 draft, that team didn't change much between the '08-'09 season and the '09-'10 season, except for their record (23-59 in '09, 50-32 in '10). that's not to say that the kings will ever experience a similarly meteoric rise in the standings, but it is encouraging to me that the talent is already in place in sacramento. the most important pieces are, anyway. if you look oklahoma city's roster up and down, there's some solid contributors, but two names very obviously stick out: kevin durant and russell westbrook. those are cornerstone players. tyreke evans and demarcus cousins are also, without question, cornerstone types of players. kings management just needs to decide which of the other pieces are worth keeping, and then needs to fill out the remaining roster with skill sets that complement evans and cousins. a defensive big like samuel dalembert is proving his worth. a small forward with the 3-point shooting ability that omri casspi only occasionally displays would also be a benefit. but, in truth, the kings return to playoff contention does not hinge on the retention or future acquisition of mid-level players nearly as much as it does on the continued growth and excellence of evans and cousins...

It's also worth noting that that Thunder are probably still one piece away, and we have that piece in DMC.

 

[Superman]

Just a note about Rondo. Teams are starting to figure out he can't hit from outside 5 feet so defenses are sagging off him in marshmallow fashion and able to play better team defense against the Celts these days. Rondo is a good facilitator and has good court vision but he is very very overrated as a pure point because he can't shoot. I hope we take this into account tonight.

Edit
Definitely not top 3 PG material until he can keep the defense honest.

What's so great about Rondo is that he can dominate a game despite the fact that he has a broke jumper. And he's shooting 52% this season, so it's not like he'll never hit if you leave him open. His FG% on jump shots is 45%, which is respectable. He's not a threatening jumpshooter, but he's still an absolutely crucial player on his team. I'd be tempted to call him THE most important player on the Celtics, no disrespect to the rest of that lineup.

And on top of that, he's the best defensive guard in the NBA.

 

[rainmaker]

What's so great about Rondo is that he can dominate a game despite the fact that he has a broke jumper. And he's shooting 52% this season, so it's not like he'll never hit if you leave him open. His FG% on jump shots is 45%, which is respectable. He's not a threatening jumpshooter, but he's still an absolutely crucial player on his team. I'd be tempted to call him THE most important player on the Celtics, no disrespect to the rest of that lineup.

And on top of that, he's the best defensive guard in the NBA.

While I agree, and yes Rondo can dominate a game, his jumper was arguably the reason they didn't beat LA last year, combined with Perkins getting injured. In games 5,6 and 7, LA practically didn't guard Rondo, and that really hurt the Cletics offense.

I do think Rondo is a top 5 pg, and part of that is his system and surroundings. I personally can't fully judge his talent until he's on a team where he's surrounded by less talent, and more of the scoring burden will be on him. Would he be the same calliber player if he switched places with Deron, CP3, Rose, or Wsetbrook, and was forced to score more, and wasn't surrounded by such great shooters? I don't think he would. His shortcomings would become much more noticable on another team.

 

[est.1999]

Rainmaker, I agree 100%

 

[bajaden]

Now that things are getting a little better ------ . Do we have to trade, draft, sign a free agent? For my part now that we have a win streak of two, let's see how long it takes us to get to three. Let's enjoy a team that's playing better. You don't have to rate Cousins among centers - he's doing well and if he keeps it up and we win games because of it, that will be a thrill. Our guys have faults and most seem to be improving. Maybe our team will be better yet in 20 days. Maybe March will be a breakthrough. Will Tyreke's jump shot improve more over the next weeks? Can Cousins maintain his phenominal improvement? Will Beno get even more comfortable in his role?

With all these things at play I'm not inspired to think about who to acquire, who to dump, trade, off. I'm going to the Celtics game tonight, so who we might have next year means nothing. We have thirty something games left this season. I'm looking for wins and, along the way hopefully, lots of fun.

I think with the trade deadline looming in the near future, your bound to get threads on the possiblities of trades. It interests me. But at the same time I don't think that prevents anyone from enjoying the rest of the season. I don't think I've enjoyed a game as much as the last laker game in a long time. I also enjoy the possibilities that the future might hold via trades, freeagency, and the draft. I don't think any of these things are mutually exclusive of one another.

 

[Superman]

I do think Rondo is a top 5 pg, and part of that is his system and surroundings. I personally can't fully judge his talent until he's on a team where he's surrounded by less talent, and more of the scoring burden will be on him. Would he be the same calliber player if he switched places with Deron, CP3, Rose, or Wsetbrook, and was forced to score more, and wasn't surrounded by such great shooters? I don't think he would. His shortcomings would become much more noticable on another team.

You could say the same thing about John Stockton, and a number of other pass first point guards throughout the years. Stockton was a great shooter, but he never really had to shoulder the scoring burden. It's unfair to say that you can't judge a player until he's in a different situation. I'm not saying Rondo is the best point guard of all time, in which case he would have to prove himself more than he has. I'm just saying that the guy can and does dominate, despite his lack of a jumper, and the idea that he's overrated as a point guard because he doesn't shoot like Steve Nash is misplaced.

Rondo is NO John Stockton, but he's having a very Stockton-esque season, and he's one of the most important pieces on one of the best teams in the NBA. I don't think he's overrated.

 

[ParniValjak]

I am a Kings homer like the rest of you but, unfortunately, I have to agree with this.

Now, if we are talking about this from a 2013 perspective and Cousins and Reke have grown to the potential that we think they have, and the Celtics old guys have retired, and Bosh turns out to be the scrub I have always thought he was, then maybe, just MAYBE, we would be top 3.

Hang on a minute!

What you are referring to here is not talent, its production. You don't gain talent in 2 years time, you develop it.

Talent you either have or you don't. From a pure talent perspective that line up is just about as good as any. However, on the current production it obviously is behind a few of those line up.

Don't mistake talent for production because its not the same. Anthony Randolph is a VERY talented player but his production is minimal. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have the talent, it means that he is not performing. Its a very distinct difference, one that often gets overlooked.

By you explaination above, Tyreke has more talent now that he did at the start of the season and that simply is not true.

 

[bajaden]

You could say the same thing about John Stockton, and a number of other pass first point guards throughout the years. Stockton was a great shooter, but he never really had to shoulder the scoring burden. It's unfair to say that you can't judge a player until he's in a different situation. I'm not saying Rondo is the best point guard of all time, in which case he would have to prove himself more than he has. I'm just saying that the guy can and does dominate, despite his lack of a jumper, and the idea that he's overrated as a point guard because he doesn't shoot like Steve Nash is misplaced.

Rondo is NO John Stockton, but he's having a very Stockton-esque season, and he's one of the most important pieces on one of the best teams in the NBA. I don't think he's overrated.

I agree with your premise, but I would use Jason Kidd as a better example. Stockton was a very good shooter. Its true he didn't shoot that often, but he could lay 20 points on you if he needed to. You couldn't leave Stockton or Hornacek open or they would kill you.

 

[rainmaker]

You could say the same thing about John Stockton, and a number of other pass first point guards throughout the years. Stockton was a great shooter, but he never really had to shoulder the scoring burden. It's unfair to say that you can't judge a player until he's in a different situation. I'm not saying Rondo is the best point guard of all time, in which case he would have to prove himself more than he has. I'm just saying that the guy can and does dominate, despite his lack of a jumper, and the idea that he's overrated as a point guard because he doesn't shoot like Steve Nash is misplaced.

Rondo is NO John Stockton, but he's having a very Stockton-esque season, and he's one of the most important pieces on one of the best teams in the NBA. I don't think he's overrated.

There is a huge difference between Stocktons jumper and Rondo's. One could argue Rondo is the worst shooter out of every starting pg in the league. I never said Rondo was overrated. In the situation he's in right now, IMO, he's a top 5 pg.

Now, if he was on the Kings instead of Tyreke, do I think he'd be as successful, or have the same reputation as he has now? No. Put hin in NO instead of CP3, and would they have the record they currently have? Don't think so. Would the Bulls be better off with Rondo than Rose? Doubtful.

In the right situation, surrounded by vets, HOF's, who are great shooters, who allow rondo's lack of offensive ability to go somewhat unnoiticed, he's terrific. But put him in a position where his offense would be counted on, and needed for the success of the team, then I don't see him being as successful as a player. Boston needed his offense in game 5,6 and 7 of the finals, and it was nowhere to be seen. One missed jumper after another. Just imagine if he was in that position on a regular basis.