Notes from KHTK's Kings Talk

slugking50

slugking50

All-Star
Since appearently KingsTalk( The 2 hour show hosted by Jim Kozimor and former Sacramento King Henry Turner on KHTK every Tuesday night from 7-9 pm barring Kings games.... Same as far the Monarchs. Known as MonarchsTalk during the Kings offseason btw)is no longer available online, I thought i'd give some notes.

Koz was home with a cold and Jason Ross the KHTK Sports Director and the Gmans statman at the games was subbing for Koz.

Hollinger was on Kings Talk in the first hour. Talked alot about Kevin. Was a good interview.

Hollinger talked about how a friend of his and Kevins, David Thorpe(Kevins Trainer I believe), Said that Mr Thorpe told him that Kevin would have a breakout year. Hollinger thought that Kevin was shooting insane and he wouldnt be able to keep it up. He added that Kevin had and he was pretty impressed.

He also had a sentence or two about Matt Barnes. I don't remember the Specifics.

Musselman was on and said some interesting things. One that caught my eye was that he said that "statistics are always true and you can rely on them to tell you alot about a player"...... Yes he really said that. I swear thats what I heard. If anybody heard this interview, You hear the same?!

He mentioned that Mo Taylor will play more as they(coaching staff) want to see him more in game action.

Mentioned that Douby and Garcia have been spending hours after practice practicing their dribbling.

If theres anything else somebody can add please do. After this I couldnt believe what I heard from the coach that the rest of the interview was a blur. :eek:
 
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slugking50 said:
Since appearently KingsTalk is no longer available online, I thought i'd give some notes.


Hollinger was on Kings Talk in the first hour. Talked alot about Kevin. Was a good interview.

Hollinger talked about how a friend of his and Kevins, David Thorpe(Kevins Trainer I believe), Said that Mr Thorpe told him that Kevin would have a breakout year. Hollinger thought that Kevin was shooting insane and he wouldnt be able to keep it up. He added that Kevin had and he was pretty impressed.

He also had a sentence or two about Matt Barnes. I don't remember the Specifics.

Musselman was on and said some interesting things. One that caught my eye was that he said that "statistics are always true and you can rely on them to tell you alot about a player"...... Yes he really said that. I swear thats what I heard. If anybody heard this interview, You hear the same?!

He mentioned that Mo Taylor will play more as they(coaching staff) want to see him more in game action.

Mentioned that Douby and Garcia have been spending hours after practice practicing their dribbling.

If theres anything else somebody can add please do. After this I couldnt believe what I heard from the coach that the rest of the interview was a blur. :eek:
Click to expand...

Well, we knew he liked spreadsheets and power point presentations, etc.

This just keeps getting worse...
 
slugking50 said:
Musselman was on and said some interesting things. One that caught my eye was that he said that "statistics are always true and you can rely on them to tell you alot about a player"...... Yes he really said that. I swear thats what I heard. :eek:
Click to expand...
:eek: :eek: I'm speechless...or typeless.:eek:
 
slugking50 said:
Musselman was on and said some interesting things. One that caught my eye was that he said that "statistics are always true and you can rely on them to tell you alot about a player"...... Yes he really said that. I swear thats what I heard. If anybody heard this interview, You hear the same?!

He mentioned that Mo Taylor will play more as they(coaching staff) want to see him more in game action.
Click to expand...


These two comments above are truly frightening. And, where the heck are Mo's minutes coming from? :eek:

Be afraid! Be very afraid!
 
kennadog said:
:eek: :eek: I'm speechless...or typeless.:eek:
Click to expand...

chickl.jpg


We might want to make sure we have our helmets on...

Upon reflection, that one comment explains a lot.

Shudder...

-------------------------------------------
So, is this the "obvious sign of rebuilding" we've been waiting for?

Statistics tell the story? Mo Taylor to get more PT? Pigs flying over Arco?
 
VF21 said:
Well, we knew he liked spreadsheets and power point presentations, etc.

This just keeps getting worse...
Click to expand...

Look, I hate to sound like a Muss supporter when I am not, I am in a wait and see mode. However, why is this bad, statistics say a lot. While it is a completly different game. Moneyball and sabermetics have revolutionized baseball and allowed small budget teams like the A's to remanin very competitive despite a pedistian budget. Now Muss did not say that he thought a poor statistic like points per game was a dominant factor in his decision making. There are a lot of sites I personally follow that talk about sabermetric like stats for basketball. While I will fully admit that basketball is a complely different sport where matchups matter more than plain statistics, we still have no idea what Muss is refering to. There are usefull sabermetric-esque stats out there that could be helpful to a choach. Ultimatley we need to judge this team's long term perfomance and not worry about minutia like whether or not Muss uses statistics which can be either specious or very helpful as a criteria for playing time.
 
6th said:
These two comments above are truly frightening. And, where the heck are Mo's minutes coming from? :eek:

Be afraid! Be very afraid!
Click to expand...
I was so stunned over the "statistic sare always true" comment. I forgot to say something about the "Mo getting more playing time" comment.:eek: :eek: Just why the heck are we bringing in Justin Williams? Is that supposed to give Taylor some more motivation? Considering how badly we need big men, if he ain't motivated already, it ain't happening. I also hated his, "I need more damn minutes" quote. Good grief.:rolleyes:
 
Sptsjunkie said:
However, why is this bad, statistics say a lot.
Click to expand...
Because that isn't what he said. Muss said statistics are always true. My mother was a near genius statistician. Muss's comment is just flat out ignorant. Statistics can easily lie and mislead and are all to often used to lie and mislead. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he didn't really say what he was meant to say, but god help the Kings if he really meant it.
 
kennadog said:
Because that isn't what he said. Muss said statistics are always true. My mother was a near genius statistician. Muss's comment is just flat out ignorant. Statistics can easily lie and mislead and are all to often used to lie and mislead. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he didn't really say what he was meant to say, but god help the Kings if he really meant it.
Click to expand...

Look, I agree, if he puts too much faith in statistics than we are in trouble. Still, let's not read too much into a throw-away quote from an interview. As someone whose words are heavily evaulated I know that words can be twisted. All I am saying is that the proof "is in the pudding." Let's see how this team improves or quits on Muss to judge him and not overreact to a relatively non-contreaversial quote.
 
Hey, you keep thinking everything is wonderful and some of us will run around yelling about the possibility of the sky falling...

;)

The truth is out there ... somewhere in between.
 
VF21 said:
Hey, you keep thinking everything is wonderful and some of us will run around yelling about the possibility of the sky falling...

;)

The truth is out there ... somewhere in between.
Click to expand...

Haha, fair enough. I actually agree. I am not as positive as I sound. I just seem that way compared to the negativty on this board. In all honstey, I believe in not being totally reactionary. My biggest problem with American socitey right now is that people are totally reactionary to every move people in all capacities make. I am also skeptical, but I want to wait a fair amout of time before making a decision on a number of things, the Kings are included. Do I like all of Petrie's moves? No, but he has done well enough for me to have faith. Do I believe that Muss is a savior coach? No, although I was in favor of him, I have been wrong before. However, I agree that a certain amount of time and perspective should be granted before making a franchise altering decision.
 
What you don't realize is the negativity is all an act, a kind of reverse psychology to fool the basketball spirits...

And it's not like we're the ones actually making decisions. We're the ones that run around, over-reacting to everything at both ends of the spectrum. In the meantime, the Kings organization keeps doing what they're doing and hoping they can keep us from getting to the point where we actually light the torches and sharpen the pitchforks for the march to the castle.

Kings ... castle ... angry villagers ... Get it? Sorry, I crack me up sometimes.

Even those of us who may seem to be overflowing with negativity truly love this team. If we didn't we would have simply wandered off aimlessly once they quit being the league darlings.

Some people react to adversity with nobility and strength of spirit. Others react with anger and rage at the heavens for the inequity of it all.

If you've been a Kings fan long enough, you've experienced all of that - and more.

It's all good. We all want our team to be the best team possible. We just differ in our reactions to the pitfalls along the road. And a few of us - meaning me, perhaps - may actually have watched one too many bad horror flicks. You know, where the stupid kid ALWAYS goes out into the dark without any kind of weapon after at least four other kids have been horribly and brutally murdered? I tend to be gunshy now.

I'd rather panic in haste and then, when something bad doesn't happen, I can breathe a sigh of relief.

:)
 
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I listened to it, I actually thought the interview was pretty good.

They have it up on Kings.com if you want to listen and judge for yourself.
 
I really dont understand what is so bad about Muss following stats because they are true. Thats what stats are, they are pure, solid fact and 100% true. Would you base your opinion of a player from one performance by watching them (Tony Delk against the Kings), or by looking at their career stats?

Stats don't lie, so why is the problem so big?
 
xyrin said:
I really dont understand what is so bad about Muss following stats because they are true. Thats what stats are, they are pure, solid fact and 100% true. Would you base your opinion of a player from one performance by watching them (Tony Delk against the Kings), or by looking at their career stats?

Stats don't lie, so why is the problem so big?
Click to expand...


Theres Lies, Damned lies, and then there's Statistics( Thats the exact saying isnt it?)
 
But those are for statistics in general. Basketball stats really don't lie. If you see somebody averaging 25 ppg, 10 rpg over 20 games, you can believe that person is good, right?

Sports stats really dont lie...
 
I agree with Coach and his "stats don't lie" comment. Key stats are assists/turnovers, FT% (the big with much better FT% will get more time), and performance index, that mystical number that relates to each players contribution to the team when he is playing.

Now having said that about stats, practice is probably the main determining factor in who gets a chance for more minutes among non-starters. QD for example. Been shooting the lights out in practice and after and is now seeing considerable playing time.

I also agree that stats alone mean little in decisions as to who gets the minutes. But if a bench sitter takes his shooting % down to the mid to low 30% range, that can or will affect his minutes.
 
^^^^
Last year, Webber averaged around 20 ppg and 10 rpg and I would argue that he was a detriment to the Sixers (Still love the guy). Anyways, statistics need to be used wisely to be effective. This is like any other coaching strategy. If Muss said that he solely uses stats to evaluate, then I would be worried.
 
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kennadog said:
Because that isn't what he said. Muss said statistics are always true. My mother was a near genius statistician. Muss's comment is just flat out ignorant. Statistics can easily lie and mislead and are all to often used to lie and mislead. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he didn't really say what he was meant to say, but god help the Kings if he really meant it.
Click to expand...


It's also true that you can make stats show anything you want (or at least that's what I was told by a statistician) And they never ever tell the whole story. There are things that simply don't show up in box scores. Effective screens, boxing out, hustle, energy, willingness to dive to the floor.
 
Prophetess said:
It's also true that you can make stats show anything you want (or at least that's what I was told by a statistician) And they never ever tell the whole story. There are things that simply don't show up in box scores. Effective screens, boxing out, hustle, energy, willingness to dive to the floor.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I'm not anti-Musselman and my "over-reaction" was just to the idea that statistics don't lie. Statistics lie all the time, dependent upon who is mainpulating and interpreting them. Now I'm sure Muss uses more than just stats (at least I hope so), but when it comes to dealing with human beings, stats, judiciously used, are an indicator, but not inviolable truth.
 
First I skipped a lot after reading the first few replies...

Keep bashing away! What is wrong with stats, that is a pretty true statement that muss made. Everyone in Kings land over reacts again.

I loved RA, with that glad he is gone, Muss would not have been my 1st choice but, for some reason a lot of you think Muss should be able to make this group of players into champions. I am thinking no way in * no matter what coach we have that is going to happen.

I see a lot of positives with him, see a lot of negatives as well but that is to be expected from a young coach. Stop the hate, root for your team. Players win, not coaches.

But it goes with the territory, if you lose the coach gets blamed, if you win the coach gets no credit.

BTW we have basically the same record last year with this group of players... Minus artest, plus a bonzi as we do this year. Of course the same people clowing Muss were the same defending RA last year.

In case you didn't get the memo... Its the players
 
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Stats don't lie, but can be used to draw incorrect conclusions.

Kobe Bryant's average points per game is a stat, and it's true.
Nobody fudged the numbers.

However, it depends on what one concludes from that stat that we're talking about.

Will Kobe continue to produce about those numbers in the future? That's a guess based on historical stats (which are true facts) and one could say with good probability that Kobe will continue to produce at that level, baring an unforeseen circumstance such as an injury.

The stats don't lie. It's the conclusions people draw to predict future numbers that is tricky.

So, Muss saying stats don't lie is, IMHO, a perfectly correct statement.

I don't have time to listen to the interview, can someone tell me what was the context for this statement?
 
Cal-Kings said:
Stats don't lie, but can be used to draw incorrect conclusions.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I'm actually a statistician, or at least that's one of the hats I wear. I would suggest that, 99.9 percent of the time, it's the interpretation of the stats wherein lies the problem. To say that stats are the problem is to misunderstand who's responsible for the problem in the first place.

That said, am I comfortable with Muss saying that 'statistics are always true'? Nope. But maybe he understands. Like some of you, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (for now).
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

- Homer Simpson




[/FONT]
 
There's no "there" there. This says no more about Muss than the comment about how well he thought Garcia played against the Warriors even though his shooting numbers looked bad. It's just a sound bite and not some sort of code to live by.
 
What is the big deal???

I am college educated and I have read this quote about 6 times thinking I missed something. All it says to me is that in basketball that stats don't lie and quite often that is the case. If a team shoots 50% and the other team shoots 35% than pretty much the team that shoots 50% is going to win. If both Artest and Bibby shoot a high percentage then more than likely the Kings will win.


Is it that hard???
 
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