Not sure why new thread was locked

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#1
let's face it - there is not much interest in this version of the kings...

people seem to be "waiting for montegodot" to make some moves to completely dismantle vlade's "rebuild"

game threads are in single digits and there are not many new threads emerging

so, yesterday, someone started this thread (now locked):

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/luka-dallas-and-vlade.82809/

i must admit, i don't follow individuals (or do "likes" or "thumbs-ups"), so, i don't keep track of the positions of many posters.

which means that i have no idea if the OP has a history with the moderators that may have led to the thread being locked (at a time when no one else has much to say).


and i want to make clear that i am not questioning the authority of the moderators (they have it) and i am not complaining - just wondering why.

i thought the first post was respectful and acknowledged that this subject had been beaten to death, but it seemed like the OP was looking at the "luka debate" from a different perspective - kind of a "are we maybe better off WITHOUT luka, who i believe i will now refer to as Lukadiva Doncic).

perhaps the title of the thread led the moderators to conclude that this was going to be more vlade-bashing and indeed, i do have a point to make regarding "the pick" (moneybags over lukadiva).


my point begins with a question (which i had intended to be the title of a thread, but like everyone else, this kings team's "effort" does not inspire me to make that much of an effort myself - so i will ask my question here):


question:

how much information should a good gm have at his disposal, regarding the intentions of other teams?


or


what did vlade know and when did he know it?



i mean (in this case), was vlade aware that dallas was offering a first round pick to move up two spots and get lukadiva (with willing partner atlanta getting the trae they wanted AND that extra first round pick)?


because he SHOULD have known.


THAT is why you have/had guys like brandon williams and joe dumars in the front office - there are only thirty teams and SOMEONE in the front office should be carefully gathering information on the intentions of each one, ESPECIALLY those teams who pick near where you are picking.


it is my "guess" (and i am interested to hear if anyone "knows" - AND has a link) that the kings front office was unaware of the negotiations between atlanta and dallas.

but if they DID know, i would wonder what the discussion was over whether or not the kings should have grabbed that extra first rounder.


because the kings (and/or memphis) were in a unique position of being able to "queer the deal" between dallas and atlanta and most certainly, if the kings had offered to swap picks with dallas for an extra first, dallas would have made that deal (guaranteeing them lukadiva with the SECOND pick - phoenix had made clear that ayton was their man).


the problems were two:

1) vlade announced before then draft that he was taking bagley (an ENORMOUS error)

2) i just don't think the kings FO knew that atlanta and dallas were cooking up a deal.



vlade should have kept his cards close to his chest - that is what a good gm does.

as i recall, everyone was pretty sure that memphis was sold on JJJ (they were the only other team that could have upset the dallas/atlanta plans by selecting trae young at #4)


so


what if vlade HAD known about the dallas/atlanta deal and got the word out that the kings would be taking luka.

now dallas is calling vlade to see if they could give the kings an extra first rounder to swap picks.

granted, the "risk" was that atlanta would trade down with someone else (who wanted to move up and take bags) or (less likely) that memphis would select bagley (over jackson).


imho, there was a better than 50-50 chance that even after trading down (to #5), the kings would still have been able to select bagley - with hindsight, a better outcome would have been someone else doing a deal with atlanta to move up and take bagley, but, in that case, the kings could have threatened to take trae themselves (at #5) , forcing atlanta to ALSO pay off the kings)


vlade had a history of "trading down", so why did he not do it this time (for a bigger payoff)?


we know that the front office was split over luka or bags - so, why not solve the split by trading down with dallas?

unless they just didn't know about dallas/atlanta, which is a front office failure.


i have no idea if this thread will be allowed to stand or not. if it is here tomorrow, i will detail (because i have knowledge of this) how the warriors made the correct (although "devious") moves leading up to the 1988 draft - which directly affected how the kings "mini-dynasty" was able to be assembled.
 
#2
You're right about Vlade letting everyone know that Bagley was their pick, was idiotic. It was so weird, that I initially thought it was a bluff move. Nope, he didn't care and didn't think it made any difference.

I think GM's around the league had a hard time communicating with Divac and so he was out of the loop, with a lot of the discussions going on. Word was that he had Williams doing a lot of the talking for him and teams became annoyed by that weird dynamic. Which reinforces the idea that putting his cards on the table with the Bagley choice, was ridiculous. He could have used that leverage to get himself into discussions, that were otherwise hard to come by
 
#5
let's face it - there is not much interest in this version of the kings...

people seem to be "waiting for montegodot" to make some moves to completely dismantle vlade's "rebuild"

game threads are in single digits and there are not many new threads emerging

so, yesterday, someone started this thread (now locked):

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/luka-dallas-and-vlade.82809/

i must admit, i don't follow individuals (or do "likes" or "thumbs-ups"), so, i don't keep track of the positions of many posters.

which means that i have no idea if the OP has a history with the moderators that may have led to the thread being locked (at a time when no one else has much to say).


and i want to make clear that i am not questioning the authority of the moderators (they have it) and i am not complaining - just wondering why.

i thought the first post was respectful and acknowledged that this subject had been beaten to death, but it seemed like the OP was looking at the "luka debate" from a different perspective - kind of a "are we maybe better off WITHOUT luka, who i believe i will now refer to as Lukadiva Doncic).

perhaps the title of the thread led the moderators to conclude that this was going to be more vlade-bashing and indeed, i do have a point to make regarding "the pick" (moneybags over lukadiva).


my point begins with a question (which i had intended to be the title of a thread, but like everyone else, this kings team's "effort" does not inspire me to make that much of an effort myself - so i will ask my question here):


question:

how much information should a good gm have at his disposal, regarding the intentions of other teams?


or


what did vlade know and when did he know it?



i mean (in this case), was vlade aware that dallas was offering a first round pick to move up two spots and get lukadiva (with willing partner atlanta getting the trae they wanted AND that extra first round pick)?


because he SHOULD have known.


THAT is why you have/had guys like brandon williams and joe dumars in the front office - there are only thirty teams and SOMEONE in the front office should be carefully gathering information on the intentions of each one, ESPECIALLY those teams who pick near where you are picking.


it is my "guess" (and i am interested to hear if anyone "knows" - AND has a link) that the kings front office was unaware of the negotiations between atlanta and dallas.

but if they DID know, i would wonder what the discussion was over whether or not the kings should have grabbed that extra first rounder.


because the kings (and/or memphis) were in a unique position of being able to "queer the deal" between dallas and atlanta and most certainly, if the kings had offered to swap picks with dallas for an extra first, dallas would have made that deal (guaranteeing them lukadiva with the SECOND pick - phoenix had made clear that ayton was their man).


the problems were two:

1) vlade announced before then draft that he was taking bagley (an ENORMOUS error)

2) i just don't think the kings FO knew that atlanta and dallas were cooking up a deal.



vlade should have kept his cards close to his chest - that is what a good gm does.

as i recall, everyone was pretty sure that memphis was sold on JJJ (they were the only other team that could have upset the dallas/atlanta plans by selecting trae young at #4)


so


what if vlade HAD known about the dallas/atlanta deal and got the word out that the kings would be taking luka.

now dallas is calling vlade to see if they could give the kings an extra first rounder to swap picks.

granted, the "risk" was that atlanta would trade down with someone else (who wanted to move up and take bags) or (less likely) that memphis would select bagley (over jackson).


imho, there was a better than 50-50 chance that even after trading down (to #5), the kings would still have been able to select bagley - with hindsight, a better outcome would have been someone else doing a deal with atlanta to move up and take bagley, but, in that case, the kings could have threatened to take trae themselves (at #5) , forcing atlanta to ALSO pay off the kings)


vlade had a history of "trading down", so why did he not do it this time (for a bigger payoff)?


we know that the front office was split over luka or bags - so, why not solve the split by trading down with dallas?

unless they just didn't know about dallas/atlanta, which is a front office failure.


i have no idea if this thread will be allowed to stand or not. if it is here tomorrow, i will detail (because i have knowledge of this) how the warriors made the correct (although "devious") moves leading up to the 1988 draft - which directly affected how the kings "mini-dynasty" was able to be assembled.
Simple, too many chefs in the kitchen. And the chefs were too damned busy with office politics rather than minding the store.
 
#8
Obviously we'd be a better team with Luka but we wouldn't be that good. The mavs are below .500.

There's nothing else to talk about here.
The other thing to mention is that we would have a player who has made the All NBA team (big value asset),....instead of a #2 pick who has very little value around the league
 
#9
The other thing to mention is that we would have a player who has made the All NBA team (big value asset),....instead of a #2 pick who has very little value around the league
Ok... And. We still have the same front office and ownership. I honestly think this environment could make some of the greatest ever players average.
 
#10
I don’t watch to much nba these days but my understanding is luka hasn’t played in a while
I don't watch any either. :D Apologies if he's not playing. But still Dallas hasn't won anything with him yet and he's a much worse player if he ended up here I know that.
 
#11
Ok... And. We still have the same front office and ownership. I honestly think this environment could make some of the greatest ever players average.
Nope, same owner and same Dumars, but different front office. I'm not sure the latter matters with the others the same.
 
#12
Ok... And. We still have the same front office and ownership. I honestly think this environment could make some of the greatest ever players average.
Everyone could just give up and quit. Not going to happen though. As long as this is an NBA franchise, there will always be up and coming talent looking for an opportunity. Doug Christie and Bobby Jackson aren't quiting
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#13
If you want to know why a mod did X, then PM the mod who did X, and ask.

If you don't know which mod did X, then PM a mod, and they'll ask the one who did X to respond to you.

But what there's not going to be is a precedent of people creating threads to ask, "Why did/didn't the mods do X?"

Future threads of this type will be closed, without comment, and with warnings issued to the thread starter.
 
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