Nocioni & Hawes Traded for Dalembert

[Tetsujin]

I didn't see a smiley so maybe ur serious with the clippers having Boozer.
Why sign Boozer who will demand max when you can have Landry at 3M from the bench backing Griffin?

If Clippers ships Gordon(who is undersized SG) for Landry (undersized PF like Boozer), then they can have a solid C-PF rotation and they can sign maybe Joe Johnson who is a legit SG. That's more worth signing than getting an overprized PF who will share the minutes of your PF who was the number 1 pick of 2009.

Anyway, Gordon just came to my mind when thinking about a SG to play with Evans since he is damn strong (even if undersized) and can shoot from almost any range. But either way, the Dalembert trade sure gave us flexibility in our front court and even for future trades.

Meant Gooden. THe Boozer talk in the other thread got me confised.

 

[kingsfan101]

Cousins might not be there. Kings may or may not want Cousins. This trade makes going any which way the FO wants a possible winner. They get flexibility and they might need it.

I think this is critical. We are assuming that Cousins shall fall to us, primarily since Minny doesn't want him. They might trade with some other team though (there have been reports of Warriors trying to trade up, and dangling Randolph, or even Minny trying to move up by combining their picks (one or more of 16th and 23rd they own, if I recall correctly).

Moreover, if Cousins and Wes Johnson both are around, they might decide to take Cousins, and trade one of him/Love/Jefferson. There isn't any guarantee that Cousins shall fall to us.

This trade resolves a little of the logjam at the SF spot for us. While we shouldn't draft at that spot, if Wes Johnson is available, and is thought of as the BPA, it makes just a little more sense to draft him after the trade, than before. If we really want Cole Aldrich instead (assuming Cousins is off board), we can also trade down.

Either way, I think the trade is great. Dalembert shall be 30 by the end of his contract. If there is no lockout next season, we might be able to get him back at a fairly reasonable cost, when he shall have a few more productive years left.

 

[cwebb2002]

Being a guy that avidly watches both Houston and Sac, I cant for the life of me understand why it is that people on this board arent too keen on Landry. As it stands now, he is definitely the second best player on the team. He had 18ppg 6.5rpg for the kings. Also, given his history in houston, it wasnt like he just exploded on the scene...team would double him in the post (he was the only post player on the kings worth doubling) and he'd still find a way to score at an efficient rate (52%FG for Sac, 54%overall). His post and outside game is more polished than JT and he is a better finisher by far. His rebounding for the Kings put him as #15 among PF (6.5 for the kings, while going 5.9overall even while playing behind scola in houston for most of the season). This is a guy who has improved dramatically in every single year he's been in the league and is consistently productive. People here are sad to see a scrub like hawes go but see no problem sending the best active big man on the squad to another team...I just dont get it.

If the Kings draft Cousins, I dont think it matters whose going to be the starting C, Landry is the better PF on the team...you start him and have JT back him up (even though I think JT is a good young player...I dont think he's as good as Landry yet). Though JT is a much better rebounder and I think his long term potential is greater, I dont think he's quite able to displace Landry yet. BTW, I'd start cousins the second he shows he's adjusted to NBA style and speed.
Tyreke/Beno
Casspi/Cisco
Greene/Cisco(or FA/2nd rounder)
Landry/JT
Cousins/Dalembert (or reversed until Cousins is ready a few months into the season).

 

[Aenadin]

Dalembert for hawes and noc... i think thats a win for us. but we gave up youth for an expiring. again Geoff petrie did something NO ONE expected him to do.... he's sneaky sneaky!

this just means were inclined on gettng a center for the 5th pick...Even if cousins is on the board i think geoff will take whiteside.

 

[D13]

Cousins would still be a great pick, but now Wes Johnson makes a huge bit of sense.... just the same as Minni looking for a shooter, we could use the same....

 

[D13]

Plus... It's nice to hear that Dali has been wanting to come to Sac.... opportunity on top of good management....

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

You just insulted Perkins... Just kidding! Perkins was a lot more athletic coming out of college. I guess your refering to the Perkins later in his career that fell in love with shooting from the outside.

Yeah exactly...Sam Perkins in his last 6 seasons wasn't the same as his first 6. He came out of NC as a more post oriented player but expanded his game to include the deep perimeter. Monroe seems like a combination of both, he does have a good arsenal of moves in the post to go along with that smooth jumper.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think one of the reasons the T Wolves want to workout Cousins is to hold us up. They probably have an idea we want Cousins. So if they can make the Kings nervous enough they might be able to squeeze something out of the Kings by not taking Cousins. Or taking Cousins and then doing a trade with the Kings for the 5th pick and something else, like a future pick for Cousins.

I'm pretty sure the T Wolves want Johnson, and it makes sense for them. He fills a big need. So in that regard, I agree with you that the Kings should bring in Johnson for a workout just to give the T Wolves a moment of pause.

Yeah, they want to play games with us, we should play them right back. I wish the Kings really did like Johnson though

 

[Prince_XY]

I think the trade puts the Kings in a better position to use any one of the No. 5's that we can/might get: Cousins, Johnson, Monroe, etc. Each would fit better in what we have now and the added flexibility we now have breeds hope for even better.

First, to me you won this thread. I think you hit the bullseye. The Kings now have more flexibility in drafting anyone ( Johnson or Monroe )at pick#5 if Cousins is gone. We can always draft the back-up center ( Parakhouski or Jordan ) with pick #33 if we don't get Cousins.

Second, congratulations to the FO for having pulled this trade and letting go of Hawes who I consider one of the two last remnants of softiness in this team. You guys are awesome in that you were able to send the toxic contract of Nocioni along with soggy w******. I hope Beno will be next going out of that door.

Excellent job Petrie! You just won me back and I am trusting your wisdom again. I am looking forward to watching a very exciting and more balanced team again next season.

 

[Prince_XY]

Dalembert for hawes and noc... i think thats a win for us. but we gave up youth for an expiring. again Geoff petrie did something NO ONE expected him to do.... he's sneaky sneaky!

this just means were inclined on gettng a center for the 5th pick...Even if cousins is on the board i think geoff will take whiteside.

And why would Petrie do that?

Don't you think that is just too stupid to do - picking the lesser player when both plays the same position?

 

[Sparky6string]

Unless we sign Dalembert to an extension it'll be a short lived flexibility. I'm guessing he OKed the deal before hand or at least I hope so- I want him to want to be here.

I'll echo the love for Landry- I've seen shorter, and this guy has hops and a smooth offensive game. He can get some blocks from the weak side too. Sure I wish his rebounding was better but I still dig him. I know I say this a lot but we're lucky to have him.

 

[QoooooQ]

The Kings, on the other hand, were willing to trade a young center, who they always say you have to have more patience with, for the one year contract of a 29 year old Dalembert. Why? Why? Why? What's Hawes - 22 years old?

I think Hawes for Dalembert is quite even. I for one have seen enough of Hawes getting pushed around. Yes, he will still improve, but he'll never be a defensive cenrter and he's offensive game will always be mostly jump shooting. I think our guards and forwards can cover us on that front just fine.

Dalembert is bigger and does precisely what Hawes couldn't do, but he's limited on offense and hardly projects as our starting center for the long term. But in a backup role he will be a good asset. Of course Hawes still has a long career ahead of him and more room for improvement, but based on the needs of this Kings team, this swap is about even in my opinion.

The fact that we were able to get rid of Nocioni makes this trade positive for us. Not only was his play bad last year, he might have been a real cancer in locker room next year based on the negative attitude he displayed in those interviews this summer.

Edit: And don't forget, we even had Brockman starting ahead of Hawes last season in some games. Plus the strange disciplining incident in the spring. I think those two memories say it all about why this trade had to be made.

 

[Aenadin]

I see us moving landry with garcia to nab another pick.... but the question is to who.. geoff is brewing something and we all know we cant read him

 

[mac]

If by some miracle Hawes suddenly has that breakout year we've been waiting for - becomes decent at defense, grabs boards and :O plays in the post well, would you make him an offer in next year's free agency?

 

[Kings5692]

So how much money do we have for Free Agency now, we need to still add a SG. If we plan on drafting Cousins

 

[Kings5692]

Just a thought! Since we now have a legit C in Dalembert, how about doing the following next?

1.) Draft Cousins
2.) Sign Chris Bosh
3.) Trade Landry for a SG(Eric Gordon?)

and BTW, we should keep Brockman
We end up with

C - Dalembert/Cousins
PF- Bosh/Thompson/Brockman
SF- Greene/Omri
SG- Gordon/Garcia
PG- Evans/Udrih


If Dalembert leaves after 1 season, Cousins should already be legit and we use the salary relief to sign a backup for Cuz. And maybe that's a team good enough to compete in the playoffs for years and eventually a champioship.

I would absolutly love that

 

[jcassio]

My point is, Hawes isn't worthless as that previous poster implied.

Give me a break! I didn't say Hawes is worthless or imply he is worthless. YOU said that the trade was about Nocioni, not Hawes. I said the trade was about both of them! Trading a player doesn't mean you think he has no value. It means you think you're getting more value in return. My comment about you and others being focused on Hawes' potential also doesn't imply that he is worthless. He's not worthless, okay? In fact, I hope he becomes the player you and I would like him to be. But at this point in time, he's falls well short of most of our expectations.

 

[Showtime]

Give me a break! I didn't say Hawes is worthless or imply he is worthless.

When you said that people are evaluating his value based upon his potential and not his actual play atm, that implied that he had very little value right now.

YOU said that the trade was about Nocioni, not Hawes.

And it was. They were seeking to make a deal with Noc, but it's not like they were trying to dump Hawes. He was a piece that facilitated the deal to get Noc out of town.

 

[VF21]

I see us moving landry with garcia to nab another pick.... but the question is to who.. geoff is brewing something and we all know we cant read him

I don't want to derail the thread, and this should probably be in the Personnel Moves section, but seriously? Dude, that makes no sense. We aren't going to trade Carl Landry and Francisco Garcia for another draft pick. Ever. No way. No how. Period.

 

[Gary]

I think one of the reasons the T Wolves want to workout Cousins is to hold us up. They probably have an idea we want Cousins. So if they can make the Kings nervous enough they might be able to squeeze something out of the Kings by not taking Cousins. Or taking Cousins and then doing a trade with the Kings for the 5th pick and something else, like a future pick for Cousins.

I'm pretty sure the T Wolves want Johnson, and it makes sense for them. He fills a big need. So in that regard, I agree with you that the Kings should bring in Johnson for a workout just to give the T Wolves a moment of pause.

This would work if Minny wanted to save a little bit on salary for Johnson.. Let's say they take Cousins and then we take Johnson.. Would we be looking at a swap for the 4 and 5 without other players/picks being involved? Kind of like the Foye for Roy trade. This deal could already be worked out between the T-Wolves, and the Kings for all we know.

 

[pshn80]

It was a very good trade. Enough fodder here to feed this site for weeks. Now on to Thursday's draft when Petrie will be forced to tip his hand again. 'Tis a great saga. Basketball soap.

 

[sactownsgreatest]

great post sir

Being a guy that avidly watches both Houston and Sac, I cant for the life of me understand why it is that people on this board arent too keen on Landry. As it stands now, he is definitely the second best player on the team. He had 18ppg 6.5rpg for the kings. Also, given his history in houston, it wasnt like he just exploded on the scene...team would double him in the post (he was the only post player on the kings worth doubling) and he'd still find a way to score at an efficient rate (52%FG for Sac, 54%overall). His post and outside game is more polished than JT and he is a better finisher by far. His rebounding for the Kings put him as #15 among PF (6.5 for the kings, while going 5.9overall even while playing behind scola in houston for most of the season). This is a guy who has improved dramatically in every single year he's been in the league and is consistently productive. People here are sad to see a scrub like hawes go but see no problem sending the best active big man on the squad to another team...I just dont get it.

If the Kings draft Cousins, I dont think it matters whose going to be the starting C, Landry is the better PF on the team...you start him and have JT back him up (even though I think JT is a good young player...I dont think he's as good as Landry yet). Though JT is a much better rebounder and I think his long term potential is greater, I dont think he's quite able to displace Landry yet. BTW, I'd start cousins the second he shows he's adjusted to NBA style and speed.
Tyreke/Beno
Casspi/Cisco
Greene/Cisco(or FA/2nd rounder)
Landry/JT
Cousins/Dalembert (or reversed until Cousins is ready a few months into the season).

 

[Superman]

Being a guy that avidly watches both Houston and Sac, I cant for the life of me understand why it is that people on this board arent too keen on Landry. As it stands now, he is definitely the second best player on the team. He had 18ppg 6.5rpg for the kings. Also, given his history in houston, it wasnt like he just exploded on the scene...team would double him in the post (he was the only post player on the kings worth doubling) and he'd still find a way to score at an efficient rate (52%FG for Sac, 54%overall). His post and outside game is more polished than JT and he is a better finisher by far. His rebounding for the Kings put him as #15 among PF (6.5 for the kings, while going 5.9overall even while playing behind scola in houston for most of the season). This is a guy who has improved dramatically in every single year he's been in the league and is consistently productive. People here are sad to see a scrub like hawes go but see no problem sending the best active big man on the squad to another team...I just dont get it.

If the Kings draft Cousins, I dont think it matters whose going to be the starting C, Landry is the better PF on the team...you start him and have JT back him up (even though I think JT is a good young player...I dont think he's as good as Landry yet). Though JT is a much better rebounder and I think his long term potential is greater, I dont think he's quite able to displace Landry yet. BTW, I'd start cousins the second he shows he's adjusted to NBA style and speed.
Tyreke/Beno
Casspi/Cisco
Greene/Cisco(or FA/2nd rounder)
Landry/JT
Cousins/Dalembert (or reversed until Cousins is ready a few months into the season).

I really like Landry. I think he struggles to pass out of double teams, and I'm insistent on the idea that your starting PF should grab more than 6 rebounds a game, but he's still a nice player to have. Not untouchable, but unless you're getting a player that's going to make you a contender, there's no reason to move him, especially not to make room for a lesser player in the lineup.

 

[Chupacabra]

Being a guy that avidly watches both Houston and Sac, I cant for the life of me understand why it is that people on this board arent too keen on Landry. As it stands now, he is definitely the second best player on the team. He had 18ppg 6.5rpg for the kings. Also, given his history in houston, it wasnt like he just exploded on the scene...team would double him in the post (he was the only post player on the kings worth doubling) and he'd still find a way to score at an efficient rate (52%FG for Sac, 54%overall). His post and outside game is more polished than JT and he is a better finisher by far. His rebounding for the Kings put him as #15 among PF (6.5 for the kings, while going 5.9overall even while playing behind scola in houston for most of the season). This is a guy who has improved dramatically in every single year he's been in the league and is consistently productive. People here are sad to see a scrub like hawes go but see no problem sending the best active big man on the squad to another team...I just dont get it.

If the Kings draft Cousins, I dont think it matters whose going to be the starting C, Landry is the better PF on the team...you start him and have JT back him up (even though I think JT is a good young player...I dont think he's as good as Landry yet). Though JT is a much better rebounder and I think his long term potential is greater, I dont think he's quite able to displace Landry yet. BTW, I'd start cousins the second he shows he's adjusted to NBA style and speed.
Tyreke/Beno
Casspi/Cisco
Greene/Cisco(or FA/2nd rounder)
Landry/JT
Cousins/Dalembert (or reversed until Cousins is ready a few months into the season).

Great persepctive. I can answer your questions as to why Kings fans arent totally in love with landry. For years the Kings biggest weakness has been undersized bigmen that cant rebound and defend or Bigmen that are flat out too soft to do either. Lets face it, talented as Landry may be, hes too small to be a defensive force and too small to average 10 rpg. Next to the right player, perhaps Cousins, Landry could be an excellent starting power forward. However, Landry needs to be on the floor with a center that compliments him.

 

[Kingster]

I think Hawes for Dalembert is quite even. I for one have seen enough of Hawes getting pushed around. Yes, he will still improve, but he'll never be a defensive cenrter and he's offensive game will always be mostly jump shooting. I think our guards and forwards can cover us on that front just fine.

Dalembert is bigger and does precisely what Hawes couldn't do, but he's limited on offense and hardly projects as our starting center for the long term. But in a backup role he will be a good asset. Of course Hawes still has a long career ahead of him and more room for improvement, but based on the needs of this Kings team, this swap is about even in my opinion.

The fact that we were able to get rid of Nocioni makes this trade positive for us. Not only was his play bad last year, he might have been a real cancer in locker room next year based on the negative attitude he displayed in those interviews this summer.

Edit: And don't forget, we even had Brockman starting ahead of Hawes last season in some games. Plus the strange disciplining incident in the spring. I think those two memories say it all about why this trade had to be made.

It does seem to be a pretty even trade at this point in time, with what little we know. Still, I was looking forward to see what Hawes would do in Year 4, with one year of Westphal under his belt. Regarding your last point, if the Kings are at all considering Cousins, then the immaturity of Hawes should not be a consideration in the decision to let Hawes go. If it was a consideration, then they really shouldn't be interested in Cousins.

 

[dvirc218]

I searched "Philidelphia 76ers forum" and I viewed their comments:

They are very pleased- they are happy dalembert is gone for good, they don't stand him their. 76ers fans writing their that spencer hawes is already better than sammy (Can someone please explain this?) and they got another good player- noc.
They are really coming down on dalembert, saying he is terrible, bad iq, and doesn't know his left or right.

I think this trade is good for us because hawes and noc aren't really my favorites on the team. Dalembert will improve our rebounding and defense.

Please reply to this comment
btw- I choose "2 early 2 tell"
__________________

 

[jcassio]

When you said that people are evaluating his value based upon his potential and not his actual play atm, that implied that he had very little value right now.

And it was. They were seeking to make a deal with Noc, but it's not like they were trying to dump Hawes. He was a piece that facilitated the deal to get Noc out of town.

Of course you are free to interpret words however you want! But I know that I did not say or imply that Hawes had 'very little value right now.' That's YOUR interpretation, colored by your perspective on Hawes. Like Nocioni, Hawes was simply someone the Kings wanted to trade to get something that would be of more value for the Kings - given their current needs and direction. It is probably true that getting rid of Nocioni was a higher priority for Geoff, but that doesn't mean that Spencer wasn't 'next available' as trade bait.
According to you, Hawes was just an innocent victim used to get rid of Nocioni. At best, all I can say is that's your perspective and not mine.

 

[Rug King]

I think when they drafted Spencer, they really wanted Noah but he was gone so they took what they perceived as the next best center in Hawes. Spencer wasn't fitting into the new King's plans so best deal him before we have to offer him a new contract and commit to more years.

Now we'll have a defensive minded center in Dalembert while our future young draft pick learns the NBA.

 

[Section 101]

didnt see this mentioned but he had a trade kicker of 2 mil. his salary is 14.2mil this year

 

[SacKings384]

I searched "Philidelphia 76ers forum" and I viewed their comments:

They are very pleased- they are happy dalembert is gone for good, they don't stand him their. 76ers fans writing their that spencer hawes is already better than sammy (Can someone please explain this?) and they got another good player- noc.
They are really coming down on dalembert, saying he is terrible, bad iq, and doesn't know his left or right.

I think this trade is good for us because hawes and noc aren't really my favorites on the team. Dalembert will improve our rebounding and defense.

Please reply to this comment
btw- I choose "2 early 2 tell"
__________________

Dalembert drove Philly fans crazy because he showed flashes of being really good (he had games of 18,19,20 rebounds) and then flashes of being incredibly lazy and incompetent. Top that off with being overpaid and you got a happy Philly fanbase, but they got rid of him the year when his contract was his best asset, which is dumb.