Nocioni & Hawes Traded for Dalembert

[Superman]

You don't want a better defensive team? The fact is, there are teams that have proven to be effective without a Ben Wallace type in the middle. And regardless of whether or not they are ideal to you, the fact is that they were BETTER than the kings, and were playoff teams that proved to be capable on the defensive end.

Of course I do. I'm just saying that Utah and Houston are not my ideal of a defensive team. Scrappy and blue-collar, which is great, but without a shot blocker, both teams fell short year after year. Utah didn't play any defense in the playoffs this year, and Houston didn't even make it. Last year, Houston had two of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, and they had Yao until halfway through the Lakers series.

If I could trade with either team, sure, but ideally, you want to have a shot blocker. Doesn't have to be a Ben Wallace-like, all defense, no offense shot blocker. But at least someone who is a deterrent, who is going to contest at the rim and clean the defensive glass. I'm not a huge Dalembert fan, but we've NEVER had a guy with his shotblocking prowess. He's the kind of player we were looking for from 2000-2004 and could never quite get our hands on. He's certainly overpaid, but on his merits, he can add a lot to a team that's looking to win a championship. His value to us is certainly less than it would be to a contender, but there's nothing wrong with having him in the lineup.

 

[Superman]

Not sure I follow your logic. We had one legitimate center before this trade, therefore in need of another center. We have one legitimate center after this trade, therefore still in need of another center. I don't see where this trade changes anything as far as the draft goes.

I said earlier, that's only true if you consider Hawes to be a legitimate center. That matter is undecided at best.

 

[Superman]

The 90s Bulls would be the closest thing to an exception, and yet they always kept a shotblocker in the lineup (Grant, Longley) and merely trotted out 3 former DPOYs.

Two (unless I'm missing someone). Pippen never won it. A traveshamockery, to be sure, but nonetheless a historical fact.

 

[pshn80]

I also find this to be lacking a certain amount of logic. Flat out, if Demarcus Cousins is there the Kings are going to pick him. Do you think the FO is really weighing Monroe against Cousins on a pendulum scale as if theyre not sure who they should pick? Give me a break.

Cousins might not be there. Kings may or may not want Cousins. This trade makes going any which way the FO wants a possible winner. They get flexibility and they might need it.

 

[ElRey]

Cousins might not be there. Kings may or may not want Cousins. This trade makes going any which way the FO wants a possible winner. They get flexibility and they might need it.

I agree with you. This trade negates the absolute need to draft a center, and opens the way for the Kings to just draft BPA.

 

[Superman]

I agree with you. This trade negates the absolute need to draft a center, and opens the way for the Kings to just draft BPA.

Not really. I agree it's not as crucial as it was before, but Dalembert isn't the answer long term. And he's expiring and we might not have a say in whether he stays or not. I'd rather see him walk than over pay for him. And he certainly doesn't have any allegiances to the Kings or Sacramento. So we might be up the creek come next July. Center isn't locked up.

 

[Bricklayer]

Blazers with Walton.

Also a dominant shotblocker, rebounder, and post player at that time.

Nothing the matter with being ABLE to pass, but it can't be your signature skill. You need to do all the dirty work big man stuff first, then if you want to add passing as gravy you can go make the HOF. Walton was a 14rpg 3bpg guy at that time and very much the anchor. Plus, if you didn't like that Maurice Lucas would come along and smack you alongside the head. Hard.

 

[pshn80]

Not sure I follow your logic. We had one legitimate center before this trade, therefore in need of another center. We have one legitimate center after this trade, therefore still in need of another center. I don't see where this trade changes anything as far as the draft goes.

I think the difference is that the incoming "legitimate center", in my view, is a much more legit, experienced, proven, defensive player than the one exiting. Therefore it takes some pressure off the FO for acquiring a center in the draft. I least that's my take on it. It doesn't mean that the Kings won't or are less likely to pick Cousins but it gives them more options. Pressures turned down about 20%.

 

[Tetsujin]

Also a dominant shotblocker, rebounder, and post player at that time.

Nothing the matter with being ABLE to pass, but it can't be your signature skill. You need to do all the dirty work big man stuff first, then if you want to add passing as gravy you can go make the HOF. Walton was a 14rpg 3bpg guy at that time and very much the anchor. Plus, if you didn't like that Maurice Lucas would come along and smack you alongside the head. Hard.

Just doing my best to play the role of irrational Princeton offense fan/ person trying to pee off people that hate Bill Walton

Really that and the 80's Celtics (and its not like their bigs just sat around and shot 3s all day) are the only championship teams that had "versatile" big men.

 

[ElRey]

Not really. I agree it's not as crucial as it was before, but Dalembert isn't the answer long term. And he's expiring and we might not have a say in whether he stays or not. I'd rather see him walk than over pay for him. And he certainly doesn't have any allegiances to the Kings or Sacramento. So we might be up the creek come next July. Center isn't locked up.

I agree with you that Dalembert is not the long term answer at center, but with him at center we are at least competitive in the frontcourt, whereas last season other team's frontcourts were lining up to pummel our frontcourt every night. It just takes pressure off to draft a center this year. for ex, if Johnson is the best player available, Petrie would probably feel more comfortable drafting him instead of reaching for a center like Whiteside or Monroe at #5.

 

[Dunkster]

I DONT EVEN CARE! this trade is so awesome. Little sad at hawes, but see ya noc!

 

[Henkel]

Good move. I had high hopes for Hawes, but he never delivered. I'll still be rooting for him for him in Philly.

Looks like a clear sign that we are going to take a big in the draft.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

I have to say, after this trade, I'm much less concerned with us needing to take Cousins. I mean, I still prefer him over the other guys, but as long as we don't end up with Monroe, I'm a happy camper. The thought of going into next season with the same front court was not a happy one.

 

[kingofthejungle]

Analysis.

First of all, this is an excellent trade. Most seem to think at least a B grade. I'm in the A crowd myself. Acquiring Noce was misguided from the get-go and Hawes remains an over-sized infant. In return the Kings get a legit shot-blocker who expires. Either way, Kings win.

Kings should absolutely still be looking at Cousins. In fact I think Petrie's being deceptive (leaking interest in Monroe and giving him a second look) to give Minni less leverage. I'm just so glad that Khan is an idiot. Yeah, prove me wrong, big guy!

 

[FaStRmAn]

Let's see...We Get Dalembert in his final contract year...We get rid of Hawes, who IMHO will never be a good NBA player...We get rid of Noc and his contract, who just doesn't fit Petrie/Westphal's style...And Dalembert's contract is up after this year. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE? Dalembert is 10X the center Hawes will ever be. Noc wasn't really helping our team. Does Petrie have a voodoo doll with the Sixers front office on it? He sold them a One Legged Webber, NOW he sells them a 7 foot guard? WTF is going on in Philly? Those people must be insane! I understand they didn't like Dalembert there very much, but he was productive. Philly boo'd Santa Clause for Heaven's Sake! They don't like ANYONE who isn't a perennial allstar like Iverson.

Dalembert will fit in nicely with our team. He gives us an inside presence we haven't had in a lOOOOONG time. He is an excellent defensive re bounder. He isn't much of a scorer, but we dont need him to be. Put backs should be his only scoring. Add Cousins to this lineup and you have a front court of Dalenbert, Thompson, and Landry with Cousins coming off the bench. That is a pretty good defensive/rebounding front line. They certainly are not soft like Hawes was. In fact, how long do you think it will be before Philly fan realizes how soft Hawes is and starts hucking "D" Cell batteries at him? I'd say by the 5th home game, the sports talk radio in Philly will be just KILLING Hawes. Mark my words! Hawes is S O F T. That will not play well in Philly. Dalembert is no world beater, but he is a LOT better than Hawes will ever be, AND he will be in the final year of his contract. PLUS we can let him go if he doesn't make an impact because it's the final year of his contract. It is a WIN for the Kings and I don't know what else to call it but a LOSS for Philly AGAIN! You would think that after the Webber Fiasco, that there would be a moratorium in Philly on trading with Petrie forever! Well, Thanks for taking our junk and giving us a Gem Philly!

 

[Entity]

here is the way I see it. GP finally sees the need for a defensive rebounding shot blocker. Thats why the interest in Cousins. So he gets Dalembert who is a vet at those very things just in case it takes Cousins a tad longer to be NBA ready. If Cousins is ready in time well you have a nice $12 mil worth of expiring come trade deadline time or let it expire and you save about 6 mil total with Noc being gone.

 

[kennadog]

Dalembert is not a great center. However, he does do the things that we have been so sorely lacking in for so long.....rebound and block shots. That makes me happy.

We get a one year look at Dalembert and if we decide to try and keep him, it will be under the new CBA, which should reduce what we'd have to pay. If we feel we can do better, then bye-bye Sam and we have even more cap space next year, because we won't have Noc's too costly contract any more.

I just think its a solid move for the direction this team seems to be going and that's tougher and better defensively.

 

[VF21]

Dalembert is not a great center. However, he does do the things that we have been so sorely lacking in for so long.....rebound and block shots. That makes me happy.

We get a one year look at Dalembert and if we decide to try and keep him, it will be under the new CBA, which should reduce what we'd have to pay. If we feel we can do better, then bye-bye Sam and we have even more cap space next year, because we won't have Noc's too costly contract any more.

I just think its a solid move for the direction this team seems to be going and that's tougher and better defensively.

Thank you. You said it so well I can just say... WORD!

 

[Gary]

My only worries is opponent free throw attempts with Thompson and Dalembert on the front line..

Those two are about the last pair you would want to make is you are trying to keep the fouling down. We need a Cousins type player right now to go with Landry when both Dalembert, and Thompson have 3 fouls each at the start of the second quarter lol.

 

[kennadog]

My only worries is opponent free throw attempts with Thompson and Dalembert on the front line..

Those two are about the last pair you would want to make is you are trying to keep the fouling down. We need a Cousins type player right now to go with Landry when both Dalembert, and Thompson have 3 fouls each at the start of the second quarter lol.

When it comes to free throws those two would be particularly cringe-worthy. However, the whole team was cringe-worthy a good part of this last season. They better all be working on free throws this summer.

 

[Showtime]

My only worries is opponent free throw attempts with Thompson and Dalembert on the front line..

They shouldn't ever be on the frontline. JT proved last season that he's best suited coming off the bench, where he doesn't have to constantly worry about staying in the game and staying out of foul trouble and playing like he's walking on eggshells. He can just come in, give it 110%, not worry about anything else, and he was very good in that role.

 

[Sac.1989]

They dumped 2 years of Nocioni's contract, I don't see how you can argue with results like that. Even if you like Hawes, you still have to give that props.

Dam straight, we will be in a position to draft monroe who is hawes 2.0 so all isnt lost yet if you consider this a loss

 

[SacTownKid]

My only worries is opponent free throw attempts with Thompson and Dalembert on the front line..

Those two are about the last pair you would want to make is you are trying to keep the fouling down. We need a Cousins type player right now to go with Landry when both Dalembert, and Thompson have 3 fouls each at the start of the second quarter lol.

I hope to see very little Thompson and Daly out there together. The IQ of this team will fall through the floor and Tyreke will have tons of issues getting going offensively.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Just a thought! Since we now have a legit C in Dalembert, how about doing the following next?

1.) Draft Cousins
2.) Sign Chris Bosh
3.) Trade Landry for a SG(Eric Gordon?)

and BTW, we should keep Brockman
We end up with

C - Dalembert/Cousins
PF- Bosh/Thompson/Brockman
SF- Greene/Omri
SG- Gordon/Garcia
PG- Evans/Udrih


If Dalembert leaves after 1 season, Cousins should already be legit and we use the salary relief to sign a backup for Cuz. And maybe that's a team good enough to compete in the playoffs for years and eventually a champioship.

 

[Kingster]

So Philly trades the known commodity in Dalembert for the unknown commodity of Hawes. Everybody knows what Dalembert is and will be. Philly didn't like this known commodity for their young up and coming team. The Kings, on the other hand, were willing to trade a young center, who they always say you have to have more patience with, for the one year contract of a 29 year old Dalembert. Why? Why? Why? What's Hawes - 22 years old? There are guys in this draft that are older than Hawes. If Hawes were in this draft today where do you think he would fall? Ahead of Monroe, that's for damn sure. So why exactly are the Kings doing what repeatedly they say you shouldn't do - give up on a young center or point guard too early?

Well, they get a one dimensional defensive center for one year. And they get additional cap room by getting rid of the Noc contract (that doesn't need explanation). Ok, so they get a stop-gap defensive center for one year and some cap room flexibility. Maybe Dalembert is going to also provide a convenient excuse for not drafting Cousins if he is available? Then they can focus their efforts elsewhere. But the Kings don't know if Cousins is going to be there or not, so who knows on that score. More than anything else, this trade just seems to kick the can down road. Until you find out how, or if, all these cap $ are going to be spent, and if Dalembert will even be resigned, you just don't know if it's good or not. Maybe the Kings are trading as much for an unknown commodity as Philly. Hard to get excited about this trade, at least right now.

 

[Lafayette]

Just a thought! Since we now have a legit C in Dalembert, how about doing the following next?

1.) Draft Cousins
2.) Sign Chris Bosh
3.) Trade Landry for a SG(Eric Gordon?)

and BTW, we should keep Brockman
We end up with

C - Dalembert/Cousins
PF- Bosh/Thompson/Brockman
SF- Greene/Omri
SG- Gordon/Garcia
PG- Evans/Udrih


If Dalembert leaves after 1 season, Cousins should already be legit and we use the salary relief to sign a backup for Cuz. And maybe that's a team good enough to compete in the playoffs for years and eventually a champioship.

Why would the CLIPPERS get rid of a young SG for a PF when they have Griffin waiting to play.

 

[Tetsujin]

Why would the CLIPPERS get rid of a young SG for a PF when they have Griffin waiting to play.

Because apparently a front court rotation of Kaman/Jordan/Griffin/Boozer just isn't enough because you just can't have enough 6'8" power forwards. To complete this, they'd also sign Kenny Thomas and Sheldon Williams with Justin Williams and Joey Dorsey on call-waiting.

 

[Gary]

When it comes to free throws those two would be particularly cringe-worthy. However, the whole team was cringe-worthy a good part of this last season. They better all be working on free throws this summer.

I meant opponent FTs.. Thompson and Dalembert are like both in the top 15 for fouling the most. People also wanting Boozer who is also in the top 15.. I just don't want the Kings to give up 40 FT attempts a night.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Because apparently a front court rotation of Kaman/Jordan/Griffin/Boozer just isn't enough because you just can't have enough 6'8" power forwards. To complete this, they'd also sign Kenny Thomas and Sheldon Williams with Justin Williams and Joey Dorsey on call-waiting.

I didn't see a smiley so maybe ur serious with the clippers having Boozer.
Why sign Boozer who will demand max when you can have Landry at 3M from the bench backing Griffin?

If Clippers ships Gordon(who is undersized SG) for Landry (undersized PF like Boozer), then they can have a solid C-PF rotation and they can sign maybe Joe Johnson who is a legit SG. That's more worth signing than getting an overprized PF who will share the minutes of your PF who was the number 1 pick of 2009.

Anyway, Gordon just came to my mind when thinking about a SG to play with Evans since he is damn strong (even if undersized) and can shoot from almost any range. But either way, the Dalembert trade sure gave us flexibility in our front court and even for future trades.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Also with Dalembert in the mix. I'm becoming more open to trading down or getting 2 first round picks from our #5 and a filler. Not sure, but if Whiteside kicks Monroe's butt in their 2nd workout. I'll be in the Whiteside bandwagon. Maybe 1 year playing behind Dalembert would be enough to put on some more weight on this kid's frame.

If we can somehow get Whiteside and Henry for trading our #5. I believe that would be a solid draft. But for now, I'm still in the Cousins bandwagon. Even getting Jerome Jordan or Alabi with our 33rd pick would seem feasible now since Dalembert should be serviceable enough especially because this is Sammy's contract year.