Telemachus
Starter
I have been an Eason fan for awhile. I still think we could trade for Charlotte's 15th pick and take him there.
NBA Draft Lottery
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Keegan at 4 and trading back in to get Eason would certainly solve all our wing problems.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
so what school is your barometer for championship leading players?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Ahh, this is the AAU league that basketball people talk in disparaging tones about. Their main criticism seems to be that it breeds non-competitiveness.
steelevt
All-Star
I’ve kinda resigned to the fact that pretty much all the guys 1-6 (last 3 being Ivey, sharpe, murray) have pluses and minuses and will just trust monte based on his history to choose the right player. Now if he goes vlade and chooses someone mocked in the 20-30 range or second round with the pick…
yes, I think every player in the 1-6 range is most likely a highly skilled but flawed player. OKC, HOU (maybe even ORL) who have recent high lotto picks aren't counting on their guy to be their best player and can best deal with this. Hell I won't be surprised if OKC and HOU tank from day one next year as well.I’ve kinda resigned to the fact that pretty much all the guys 1-6 (last 3 being Ivey, sharpe, murray) have pluses and minuses and will just trust monte based on his history to choose the right player. Now if he goes vlade and chooses someone mocked in the 20-30 range or second round with the pick…
The good news is they may choose to swing for the fences and leave us with the best player in the class.
Are you watching highlights or whole games? No judgement at all if it's mainly highlights - I only mention it because Ivey has some of the highest highs and the lowest lows among the top prospects. At his best he looks incredible. But he also has some head scratching turnovers and will sometimes fall asleep completely on defense.
I like Ivey and in a vacuum I'd look strongly at him at #4, but for better or worse McNair has comitted to Fox and I don't think they are a complimentary backcourt. I don't think Ivey works all that well with Davion either. He's not a PG. He's a SG or a combo guard. He could be a Oladipo/Donovan Mitchell type player but I don't think he's a natural playmaker.
sactowndog
All-Star
The concern with Eason is BBIQ. That might push me back to Sharpe
Makes sense because when you google Ivey on youtube, he has an insane highlight package. Looks every part a star guard.
But turn on a full game, you see he gets hunted on the defensive end, has a loose handle (fine for an off-guard, definitely weak if he's at PG) and absolutely doesn't have the same playmaking chops that other star guards in the last 5-10 years showed as prospects. The athleticism pops and I do think he's elite at getting to the rim, but I think he's a project that has to come along in a lot of areas to be a star.
EIM86
Starter
The abilities he has you can’t teach and the abilities he doesn’t have you can teach. It depends on what couchGMs prefer
Yeah, and this is why I no longer have him in my top 5. On potential alone? Absolutely, he looks like he fits where the league is headed perfectly. I can easily see him being the next superstar guard. But he's got some serious holes in his game and if we put him in the same backcourt as Fox and Mitchell those flaws are probably going to be magnified. I understand taking him and dreaming if we're just hunting for future stars but I think there are smarter picks when you factor in everything -- fit, strengths and weaknesses, relative probability of reaching their max potential, etc.
This is fair. But there's a lot of gray area left between "can teach" and "will learn", if that makes sense. A lot of players improve their shooting and defensive awareness after joining the league, but it's not a guarantee. So really what it's going to come down to for all of these prospects is how confident you are that they will be able to improve on their weaknesses and also how well do you see their strengths translating to the NBA game. That's why there's so many opinions and the tough thing about this draft in particular is that almost everyone has a very obvious strength and a very obvious weakness.
EIM86
Starter
agreed. Coming in for workouts and talking to the guy in person will be big for us. I don’t think the entire NBA has been able to do a full blown where you can bring all your personnel to assess the players for a workout past two seasons huh. Which adds confidence in Monte for me cause he did that with late picks. Hopefully with an early pick and Vivek not meddling, Monte lands an even better player compared to the last two.
yeah there’s no full blown star potential in this years draft. I see flaws for all in our range. #InMonteWeTrustUnlessVivekComesIn
reptilexcq2
Bench
Kings got the #4 pick....they should draft Ivey. Has great footwork and control (as can be seen landing after dunk), passing is efficient...he passes at the top of the bounce and effortlessly and even flashy. His ability to use his quickness and penetrate is unbeatable...has great control. There is a rhyme to his motion and movement which scream star quality. Defensively, he has great lateral movement and can leap up to block shots. His anticipation of steal is unmatched. The Kings don't have a star quality player at the SG position....why not draft him instead of some big dude? Him and FOX can be the speed demons on the court. Unless Holmgren, Banchero or Jabari Smith fall pass 1 2 and 3, Ivey should be the pick. He could be the next Ja Morant or Westbrook.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It also apparently is pretty decent at selecting players that eventually make it to the NBA and flourish.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
All things that can be improved over time. However, this idea that you can increase lateral foot speed or athletic ability to some extent is total BS. Like that extra 1-2 hours of training a day in NBA is going to change much of anything. There are no real terrible athletes in that range but Ivey's upside is too good to pass up if there IMO. Jaden showed at Purdue his ability to move without the ball. He's not someone that has to have the ball to do anything. That's a total misnomer. He honestly is the absolute best fit for Domas in particular. If Fox and Ivey don't work I still don't think that sinks the teams chances to get 4 games above .500 or whatever the mandate was. However if they work? Good luck NBA.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That's where I think Ivey could have problems. If he's drafted to a team looking for a lead guard that's a gamble, he's not Morant, he's probably not even Westbrook or Fox. He's more Wade/Donovan Mitchell. He's not a project either. His 1st year for sure, but he made huge leaps in his 2nd year. In his first he looked every bit the raw athlete that needed to put it together. He did in a lot of ways, and there's more to come possibly. Like with Holmgren, I'd gamble with either Sharpe or Ivey and deal with the consequences because the payoff is too worth it for a team that already has 2 of the better players at their position currently. The Kings are playing with house money at 4.
I'm not against the idea of drafting Ivey, but if 4 of your starters are Fox, Ivey, Barnes, and Sabonis you need a knock down shooter at the other forward spot and spacing is still probably an issue.
Defense too as neither Ivey or Fox are very switchable. It's why I'm leaning towards Sharpe if the top 3 go as expected.
But I have a feeling one of Chet, Jabari, or Paolo will drop to 4, most likely Holmgren.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
His leap from year 1 to 2 is a pretty good indication. Look, as others have said, there are no perfect players here in this draft. They all have flaws and potentially fatal ones at that. Jaden is far from excluded in that.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, you're right, and that's needed regardless of who they draft but having two players with the acceleration of Fox and Ivey could make up for it. Fox and Ivey have such elite change of direction they will still get into the paint and still be able to either create contact or draw help. Also with Fox, we've seen it for more than 1 year now, when used right that shooting seems to fall into place. After Haliburton was moved and he got into a groove his percentages shot up almost 10 percent from 3 and his attempts went way up. Ivey is really good at playing off the ball and driving off the catch as well. I can totally see Fox in pick and roll finding him and teams that even still don't come all the way out are either giving up wide open jumpers or are going to get caught flat footed.
If Holmgren drops then the future of this franchise really changed. Twin towers activate.
King-Da-Yah
Starter
just finished watching all of Ivey’s games and I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Im just imagining a different group of personnel then what the Kings currently employ (HB, Fox, Sabonis, no guarantee they are here long term) and what do we have to lose at this point? Ivey is going to be a special player and I for one say we don’t shy away from picking BPA ever, ever again. Let’s not get cute here…take Ivey/Chet and let Monte keep improving the roster around our core. Its our only path to (eventual) success. Or we can fire Monte and start over again…sigh
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See_Hanks
Bench
Then I guess I would just have to add you to my list of KingsFans.com posters who I will be calling out 5 years down the road, when Banchero is helping his team win games, make the playoffs, and maybe even win championships, while Murray is either struggling to take us back to relevancy, or has since been traded by the Kings because of his underwhelming performance.
That works for me...
That's cool man. I am not always correct and when I am not I will be the first to say so
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I told you so's suck for all so what's the point? haha. I don't care if Monte drafts Papa G Jr. once they are a King, they better make mincemeat out of their fellow draft picks. And in the end we above all other fanbases know what player misuse can do. As long as they draft someone and have a plan to make the most out of their potential, it should be a win. This is a solid draft.
King-Da-Yah
Starter
we mismanaged Jimmer…criminally….
kb02
All-Star
I’ve kinda resigned to the fact that pretty much all the guys 1-6 (last 3 being Ivey, sharpe, murray) have pluses and minuses and will just trust monte based on his history to choose the right player. Now if he goes vlade and chooses someone mocked in the 20-30 range or second round with the pick…
I can legit see Dieng, Daniels, or Mathurin at 4. That second tier is a black hole.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Without getting into their merits at selecting talent, I hope they have competitive games in competitive atmospheres that McNair et al could see Sharpe play. Without seeing Sharpe in game situations it's a blind man shooting into the dark.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
You guys are trying to torture me! PLEASE STOP! He's a walking injury waiting to happen! If you liked Bagley you're going to love Holmgren! I can hear the questions now about his weight, his super special diet that will rectify it all (NOT!), his strength training (We need to increase his core strength, not his overall weight. NOT!), and last but not least special food drives in the Sacto area donating to his survival on planet earth.
I think, hope, and pray that McNair would pass on Holmgren at #4.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Can't stress this enough. High lottery picks are "not fit in where you get in" players. You should have a plan to use them impactfully immediately. Even if they have weaknesses, which all players do.
We'll see. I certainly have concerns about Holmgren's build. He's both really skinny AND doesn't look to have the frame to add weight/muscle.
Then again, he's not going to be banging in the post with Jokic, Embiid and Ayton and he's already shown himself to be a tough kid with no injury history to speak of.
Honestly my bigger concern with Holmgren is if he can defend NBA wings on the perimeter. If he can't at least be passable there, I'm not sure where you play him. It's not like he can make teams pay when they go small by posting up.
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