NBA and State Come to Agreement for LOU

Lightforms said:
While I'm very happy to hear this news, I just remember trying to get out of Cal Expo after any forth of July and the mere thought repulses me. Getting out of the State Fair is different. People leave at all times of the day, not all at the same time. Hopefully, exit patterns will be improved if an arena goes there.
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And I remember trying to get out of downtown after the fireworks on the river. :eek: Section101 is right, tho. It's not just people leaving Cal Expo on the fourth. People are all over the area to watch for free (Arden Fair Mall, parks, etc.) My guess would be that it's more people than would go to a Kings' game.
 
I definitely appreciate former Gov. Pete Wilson's leadership and NBA commissioner David Stern's strong push, but I'd only give last straw Cal Expo proposal a 50-50 chance of ever breaking ground to get a new arena by - who knows - 2012-13 season? The obstacles in the way are still daunting, but better late than never. The traffic problems are an issue, will have to be dealt - not a deal breaker. It's all about finding out if all this is financially viable. Securing a developer that's interested in such a massive joint private-state project in the middle of an economic downturn - which could get worse. Sometime over the next 180 days we will certainly know one thing. The Kings are staying with a new arena deal or looking to get out out of Sacramento as fast as possible.

This is at the end of Marcos Breton's latest column in The Bee:

Does it pencil out or not?
"The lesson learned from contentious efforts of the past is that if you try to negotiate something all one way, you're not going to get a deal," said former California Gov. Pete Wilson, lead negotiator for Cal Expo on this deal.
The feeling locally was that past deals were stacked in favor of the Kings owners, and that bred hostility.
Wilson is as tough as they come. He is not given to faint praise, but he did say the NBA is showing a willingness to work with local officials to make something happen.
That's half the battle right there. But as Wilson said, that doesn't guarantee anything.
"Let me be absolutely candid, it may not be possible," he said.
The NBA and Cal Expo have to find a developer who believes he can make a project work financially – during a horrible economic downturn.
It's a steep mountain, but at least the climbers are pulling in the same direction.

http://www.sacbee.com/breton/story/929078.html
 
Sacramento resident really just needs to get over the traffic problems. L.A. residents have it twice as bad and don't complain about it, they get stuff done.
 
PurpleHaze said:
Sometime over the next 180 days we will certainly know one thing. The Kings are staying with a new arena deal or looking to get out out of Sacramento as fast as possible.
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This is true. Without an arena deal, they will be economically forced to move. Arco will be razed and Sacramento will have no arena for basketball or any of the other nearly 200 events there each year. This is far from a done deal, but I am encouraged by the effort and willingness to try their hardest and best on both sides.
 
Nikefutbolero said:
Sacramento resident really just needs to get over the traffic problems. L.A. residents have it twice as bad and don't complain about it, they get stuff done.
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You think they don't complain about it? I lived in OC for 2.5 years and EVERYONE complained about the traffic (OK, so OC is not LA, but it is a part of the greater LA area). I couldn't wait to move back up here. Between the traffic and the smog......ugh. Just horrible.
 
^No kidding. I moved there for a great job, after a year I couldn't wait to leave and 99% of that was traffic or parking.
 
Same issues were brought up in San Jose when they built the Sharks arena. There was absolutely no parking and the only freeway that fed to the arena was 87 and it had worse traffic than Cal Expo. Seems to have worked out okay for Sharks fans.

Staples Center is right off the 110 freeway and that's a nightmare any time of the day.

There is no perfect place for an Arena and I think we are all too comfortable with how easy it is to get in and out of ARCO. Not many arena's these days have as much freeway access as what we have and we are just spoiled.
 
There's really no options left at this point as far as location. It's going to be Cal Expo or nothing. Every other site considered has been eliminated at this point. It's certainly not going to be on land within Sacramaneto city or county jurisdications. The only reason it may work is because Cal Expo is State land.

At this point to argue against Cal Expo is to support no arena in Sac for the forseeable (far away) future. There are things that could be done to ease the traffic some and evenings after 6-6:30 aren't that bad.

All urban areas have traffic, many much worse than Sacramento. Cal Expo traffic would be a drop in the ocean compared to the traffic caused by people commuting in from outlying areas, including from other counties. The only real fix is greatly expanded mass transit. And that's just a whole other issue separate from an arena.
 
One small step in leaving the small minded cow-town mentality behind. I was happy when i heard the breaking news a few days ago. I would imagine light rail being a major part of the whole deal.


It could be a great way to start to change the way sac-town is viewed by others.
 
The really sad point about the Arena issue is that it is not, like in most cities, a city issue or even a county issue. It is a multi-county, multi-district issue. If I guess close, I'd imagine that at least 2/3's or more of Kings ticket holders (season, partial and single game) do not come from the City of Sacramento but outlying areas and Placer, Yolo and El Dorado counties.

While Cal Expo is a State site, the single freeway access is a disaster. And unlike the State Fair and day long events, a Kings games brings in 90% of traffic in a one hour window. And since light rail ends a mile before you get to Madison and does not go anywhere near Cal Expo, that traffic option does not exist at this time.

If a Cal Expo arena site developer is found, who is responsible for adding a light rail spur to Cal Expo? the developer? not likely. And why light rail to Cal Expo? For 41 Kings home dates and 10 days of state fair? not likely. Don't get me wrong, I love light rail and trains and buses, I just finished an Amtrak Bus-train excursion from San Jose to San Diego and back 2 weeks ago.

If an arena is easy to get to and there are more things to do in a walking radius of the arena, more fans will come and more frequently. But once at Cal Expo what else is there to do there? nothing. absolutely nothing. I've been to downtown arenas in LA, Seattle, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Salt Lake City and a bunch more. We would have dinner nearby and walk to the arena or go out after a game walking to a venue then back to our car in a safe, well lit parking in the city.

I'm glad the NBA is helping but it seems that getting a new arena under any conditions is overshadowing the main issue "if they build it, will they come?" or more important "CAN" they come? Isolated arenas, as would be Cal Expo, I just don't see how they can do well. I give you the warriors arena. We went there once but doubtfully not again. Nothing in the area to do or any places we'd want to go. Come to think of it, where are there any isolated arenas and do they do very well? not likely.

I just hope something gets done to keep the Kings in Sacramento. It just wouldn't be the same: The Anaheim Kings just doesn't sound right.
 
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I just hope something gets done to keep the Kings in Sacramento. It just wouldn't be the same: The Anaheim Kings just doesn't sound right.
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I object to that statement. It's a lot like some of the stuff the Bee has been guilty of... it misleads the reader into thinking the Kings are planning or threatening to leave and this arena deal is the only way they'll stay.

That, in and of itself, is NOT true. The Maloofs have been pretty adamant about wanting to stay in Sacramento. They're committed to the community, unlike the new owners of the Sonics.

I do agree with your concerns about traffic but I'm willing to wait and see what happens before I start worrying again about the team leaving...

:)
 
Regarding, "build it and they will come." The best recent example I can think of is SF Giants new AT&T Park. There was absolutely nothing in that area when the stadium was built. It was blighted with just a bunch of old warehouses and not much else in that industrial area traditionally known as China Basin. Now it's full of bustling new restaurants, clubs, a vastly improved waterfront and more. As far as Cal Expo having nothing it has WAY MORE than what was around AT&T Park. Within short walking distance of Cal Expo is Arden Fair Mall with several restaurants, theaters, clubs, right there, others even closer to a new Arena like Elephant Bar Restaurant, Hooters, etc. The proposed master plan calls for even more restaurants, plus condos, etc. It's a very ambitious plan and needs to work out - or it will be see ya Sac Kings, IMO.
 
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CruzDude said:
And since light rail ends a mile before you get to Madison and does not go anywhere near Cal Expo, that traffic option does not exist at this time.

If a Cal Expo arena site developer is found, who is responsible for adding a light rail spur to Cal Expo? the developer? not likely. And why light rail to Cal Expo? For 41 Kings home dates and 10 days of state fair? not likely.
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I think the question should be, why does light rail really not go anywhere?

Airport? ARCO Arena? Sac State? Raley Field? Any of the community colleges? Major shopping malls? Elk Grove? Auto malls? All a big negative, nope, zilch, nada.

The problem is that the current rail system serves a few select corridors and not areas where people would actually like to go with light rail.

Instead of serving Cal Expo, what about serving Cal Expo and Arden Fair Mall? Wouldn't that make more sense? Two places that have lots of folks coming and going instead of just one!
 
Part of the problem of light rail involves right-of-way and access, IIRC. I think having a state-of-the-art venue at Cal Expo could go a long ways towards encouraging the expansion of light rail. as well it should.
 
I agree, additional expansion of light rail is generally a good idea. The plan to extend all the way to Sacramento Int'l Airport is especially encouraging. I think that's been approved, but I heard could take at least 5 years or more to be operational. I wonder how many of our fans here have ever taken light rail anywhere in this town. I've been on it about a half dozen times and it's very efficient, fast, and cheap. Unfortunately, it can be rather frightening especially at night. A lot of drunk people, partying, loud noise, drug deals, the usual riff raff on trains and hanging out in the terminal zones. There have been a lot of muggings and murders in those stations since the light rail in Sac opened 20 years ago. The security people from my observations are often MIA or just let a bunch of the nonsense slide. Unless light rail improves security a helluva lot I personally would NEVER ride it at night after a game at Cal Expo to get back home. All that being said, I believe the overall transportation issues are going to be addressed as part of THE BIG PLAN.
 
PurpleHaze said:
Regarding, "build it and they will come." The best recent example I can think of is SF Giants new AT&T Park. There was absolutely nothing in that area when the stadium was built. It was blighted with just a bunch of old warehouses and not much else in that industrial area traditionally known as China Basin. Now it's full of bustling new restaurants, clubs, a vastly improved waterfront and more. As far as Cal Expo having nothing it has WAY MORE than what was around AT&T Park. Within short walking distance of Cal Expo is Arden Fair Mall with several restaurants, theaters, clubs, right there, others even closer to a new Arena like Elephant Bar Restaurant, Hooters, etc. The proposed master plan calls for even more restaurants, plus condos, etc. It's a very ambitious plan and needs to work out - or it will be see ya Sac Kings, IMO.
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AT&T park sits 2 blocks from the CalTrain station and SF depot serving the entire SF Peninsula all the way to San Jose. It sits on the Embarcadero, one of the choice streets in all of San Francisco. The Trolly line runs down the entire length of the Embarcadero from AT&T Park. The SOMA district, in which AT&T park sits, has $100's of millions of developments within walking distance.

Cal Expo has none of that and not much hope of getting light rail and as the above thread points out a light rail that doesn't really go anywhere.

As to my comment about Anaheim, I'm not suggesting anything, only that I, like most everyone else, don't want the Kings to leave. But in 7-8 years there has not been anything encouraging happening regarding a new Arena save for Cal Expo, and that IMHO is the wrong place for a long list of reasons.

Heck, what is wrong with North Natomas as a site for a new, top dog arena? Run light rail to the airport with a stop near a New Arco AND the shopping. THAT is a win-win for everyone and gives yet another way for folks to get to those shops, what with gas nearly $4 a gallon.
 
Sorry, Dude, but at this point it's Cal-Expo or nothing. The only possibility for North Natomas was pretty much shot down when the possible land deal/funding disappeared.

I'm still just happy that there's been any kind of agreement - even if it's just a LOU. That's far better than anything else so far.
 
PurpleHaze said:
The plan to extend all the way to Sacramento Int'l Airport is especially encouraging. I think that's been approved, but I heard could take at least 5 years or more to be operational. I wonder how many of our fans here have ever taken light rail anywhere in this town. I've been on it about a half dozen times and it's very efficient, fast, and cheap.
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Work on light rail extensions to the airport (DNA extension - Downtown-Natomas-Airport) and south Sacramento area (Southline) is progressing - right now the alignments are being worked on and preliminary engineering is underway. 5 years is probably a bit soon, but who knows....

I have never taken Sacramento LR - it doesn't serve anywhere I start from or go to. Why pay to go where I don't want to go????
 
Warhawk said:
Airport? ARCO Arena? Sac State? Raley Field? Any of the community colleges? Major shopping malls? Elk Grove? Auto malls? All a big negative, nope, zilch, nada.
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LR already goes by Sac City College and an extension further south to Cosumnes River College is under construction. LR also goes by Sac State, but a 5-10 minute bus transfer is required to get on campus. An Elk Grove extension was in the works, but is currently dead due to lack of funds. Downtown Plaza is the only "major shopping mall" that I can think of. DtP however has been losing retail tenants the past few years, with companies migrating to other shopping districts, so the major part may no longer apply.

I think the question should be, why does light rail really not go anywhere?
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Because people don't like the riff-raffs in their neighborhood. Or as some put it, "people who don't belong there". A lot of destination sites would require encroaching on existing neighborhoods, and that is always a tough sell. The extension into South Sac was relatively painless because it follows the rail tracks. Places LR doesn't go are covered by buses.

This is one of the draw backs from not having locals involved and I never understood the yahoooos from people concerning that. These issues might be exactly why Cal Expo was not on anyone's radar until the outsiders got involved.

Though it would be nice, not having LR isn't a deal breaker for me. However I don't think it'd be any easier dealing with the state than with locals, especially in these economic times.
 
Packt said:
LR already goes by Sac City College and an extension further south to Cosumnes River College is under construction. LR also goes by Sac State, but a 5-10 minute bus transfer is required to get on campus. An Elk Grove extension was in the works, but is currently dead due to lack of funds. Downtown Plaza is the only "major shopping mall" that I can think of. DtP however has been losing retail tenants the past few years, with companies migrating to other shopping districts, so the major part may no longer apply.



Because people don't like the riff-raffs in their neighborhood. Or as some put it, "people who don't belong there". A lot of destination sites would require encroaching on existing neighborhoods, and that is always a tough sell. The extension into South Sac was relatively painless because it follows the rail tracks. Places LR doesn't go are covered by buses.

This is one of the draw backs from not having locals involved and I never understood the yahoooos from people concerning that. These issues might be exactly why Cal Expo was not on anyone's radar until the outsiders got involved.

Though it would be nice, not having LR isn't a deal breaker for me. However I don't think it'd be any easier dealing with the state than with locals, especially in these economic times.
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My point is, to have people use light rail, it has to lead to a destination that people want to travel to. Schools/colleges are a great location and you stated the problem, it only really services one college at this time (bus transfers, etc, are a pain and drop ridership). Yes, others are on the way, but I was referring to the service as it is. The colleges, airport, and malls are not new and the Sacramento LR service is over 20 years old. Poor planning has reduced ridership, not lack of interest.

I would love to be able to catch a train in Elk Grove and go to the airport or the shopping mall of choice. Heck, I'd like to be able to get on in Elk Grove and go see the in-laws in Davis. But I have to drive to Sacramento just to find a station, and it is still out of the way.

Their 20-year vision map actually looks somewhat promising (at least they are finally getting around to getting to the airport and Elk Grove and Davis - where they should have been from day 1)....

http://www.sacrt.com/images/20year.jpg

This is supposed to be "regional" transit. It has been pretty much "downtown to Folsom, Watt Avenue, and Meadowview" transit. Not nearly the same thing....

There are several major shopping malls - including Arden, Country Club, and Florin (which were very popular when the RT lines were being planned, CC and Florin now not so much, but Florin is getting a new mall now). New large malls in Elk Grove and Roseville are popping up and could also use service.

A lot of the areas mentioned were also a lot easier to get to 20 years ago (including the airport - Natomas was fairly desolate then, especially compared to now) and would have required much less in the way of disturbance to neighborhoods.

There are also existing rail lines to Davis, Elk Grove, Woodland, Galt, and up to Elkhorn (which could easily shoot over to the airport) - the Southline extension isn't unique in this regard by any means.
 
CruzDude said:
The really sad point about the Arena issue is that it is not, like in most cities, a city issue or even a county issue. It is a multi-county, multi-district issue. If I guess close, I'd imagine that at least 2/3's or more of Kings ticket holders (season, partial and single game) do not come from the City of Sacramento but outlying areas and Placer, Yolo and El Dorado counties.
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Actually, it's not that heavily weighted to out of Sacramento County. When I have time, I'll try and find the numbers. It was actually in one of the city reports.

If a Cal Expo arena site developer is found, who is responsible for adding a light rail spur to Cal Expo? the developer? not likely. And why light rail to Cal Expo? For 41 Kings home dates and 10 days of state fair? not likely.
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The people that live in a region are responsible for mass, public transport. And they should be. Who says a line to Cal Expo necessarily ends there? Besides, a line could easily serve Cal Expo and Arden Fair.[/quote]
If an arena is easy to get to and there are more things to do in a walking radius of the arena, more fans will come and more frequently. But once at Cal Expo what else is there to do there? nothing. absolutely nothing. I've been to downtown arenas in LA, Seattle, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Salt Lake City and a bunch more. We would have dinner nearby and walk to the arena or go out after a game walking to a venue then back to our car in a safe, well lit parking in the city.
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There is, and never has been anything to do close to Arco Arena (within walking distance). Cal expo is instantly better in that respect, before they even plan the development of Cal Expo, which is to include commercial, residential, etc. An arena at Natomes is very unlikely to change much in the future as to access to other entertainment. You can tell that, just by looking at what is being built close to it. The acres of parking isolate it. Besides, once all potential local funding sources were out, Natomas was/is not a viable site for a new arena.

The plan is to have CA Expo be an "entertainment" destination. Planned right, it certainly could be an aesthetically more pleasing location, being right on the river.

Is traffic an issue? Certainly. It's an issue that needs to be dealt, whether or not an arena is built at Cal Expo. It will cost money whether an arena is built or not.
 
After reading some of your comments, I'm starting to worry less about traffic.

However, I'd still like the light rail to stop directly in Cal Expo...it just makes sense. And personally, both myself and many others could enjoy another beer at the game ;)

Unfortunately, I don't see anything in Sac RT's 20 year plan that shows this being possible. And we all know how long it takes RT to get things done...so let alone they actually plan a small extension, it could be 10 years from this date til it's done.
 
kennadog said:
Actually, it's not that heavily weighted to out of Sacramento County. When I have time, I'll try and find the numbers. It was actually in one of the city reports.
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Loyalty to the Kings may have price limit - For many fans, the railyard plan's cost is just too steep.

Sacramento Bee, The (CA) - October 7, 2006
Author: Mary Lynne Vellinga ; Bee Staff Writer

Some live outside Sacramento County and don't get to cast ballots. According to Maloof Sports, 38.4 percent of season ticket holders live elsewhere, the largest contingent in Placer County.

Season ticket holders

KINGS COUNTY
Sacramento 62%
Placer 15%
Yolo 6%
El Dorado 4%
San Joaquin 3%
Sutter 2%
Solano 1%
Other 7%

MONARCHS COUNTY
Sacramento 65%
Placer 8%
Yolo 7%
El Dorado 3%
Solano 3%
San Joaquin 2%
Contra Costa 2%
Other 10%


Source: Maloof Sports & Entertainment Bee arena poll results
 
Thanks for the numbers, but I think CruzDude's original post was that most were outside of the city, not the county, which I'd be curious to see if it's true or not.
 
LPKingsFan said:
Thanks for the numbers, but I think CruzDude's original post was that most were outside of the city, not the county, which I'd be curious to see if it's true or not.
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I'd almost bet on that. Sacramento City isn't a very big geographical area. It's weird in Sacramento County. Unlike a lot of cities, Sacramento didn't annex much contiguous land as it developed. So a great deal of the urbanized metropolitan area is in the county. For example, Fresno is the largest city in the valley in terms of population, but their geographic boundaries cover a relatively huge area. Much more than the city of Sacramento.

Two places I lived in Sacramento were within 10 and 20 minutes of downtown, respectively, but both were in the county, not the city. That's why any arena, at minimum needed to be a city/county deal to work at all and that was part of the roadblock.
 
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