Interesting quote from Voisin's article (http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article29612470.html) :
Nancy Lieberman being hired as assistant coach
- Thread starter sdballer
- Start date
Oh there's no doubt there. Front office titles often are muddled and meaningless. Half the GMs are called "Director's of Player Personnel" or "VP of this or that". Vlade's clearly in control and doing a bangup job. Unless he's feeling exhausted and looking forward to lying out by the pool taking a long drag on a marlboro I would expect any "GM" he brings in to be in a similar position to the "GM" working with the Spurs etc., a do the daily work guy still clearly under Vlade's overall guidance.
When you consider that a large majority of the assistant coaches around the league are ex-players, who had little or no experience when hired, I don't see how anyone can find fault with her hiring. This is a woman who has spent 40 years of her life in basketball, as a player and as a coach. I suspect that if she's sitting on a bench next to Bobby Jackson (no disrespect intended), there would be little debate over who knows more about the X's and O's. Good hire!
I'm not at all implying that this isn't a good hire or that she's not qualified. However, I don't necessarily agree that she has more X's and O's knowledge than someone like Bobby Jackson. I think that's a poor assumption for many reasons. Being around the game longer than someone else doesn't equate to knowing more. Having more experience can certainly be beneficial, but once you get past a certain point --I don't know exactly what that point is, but let's say 10 years as a starting point -- having more time in doesn't mean much.
Furthermore, Jackson has the experience of playing at the highest level with a highly successful team. He knows how difficult it is to fight through picks or get a shot off or defend bigger players. He's played under various coaches and in various systems, including the Princeton offense. I don't suspect there's much Coach Lieberman knows about the game that Bobby doesn't and he has an advantage of having played the men's game and knowing what may or may not be difficult to ask a player to try to do.
That all said, there's a notable difference between knowing the game and being able to teach it and/or communicate with players effectively. There are a myriad of basketball coaches that can do one but not the other. Coach Lieberman could be world's better than someone like Bobby in that regard.
Furthermore, Jackson has the experience of playing at the highest level with a highly successful team. He knows how difficult it is to fight through picks or get a shot off or defend bigger players. He's played under various coaches and in various systems, including the Princeton offense. I don't suspect there's much Coach Lieberman knows about the game that Bobby doesn't and he has an advantage of having played the men's game and knowing what may or may not be difficult to ask a player to try to do.
That all said, there's a notable difference between knowing the game and being able to teach it and/or communicate with players effectively. There are a myriad of basketball coaches that can do one but not the other. Coach Lieberman could be world's better than someone like Bobby in that regard.
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Not to start an argument, but I suspect you don't know Lieberman's history. She's not only as knowledgeable as they come, she's tough as nails. She earned her stripes the hard way, and currently has likely forgotten more than Bobby Jackson knows. And that's no slight to him; she's currently in a different league.
Don't confuse her with someone like Becky Hammon, who grew up in a different era. You might want to brush up a little on her history. Unequivocally, she is among the more qualified coaches that Karl could have on his bench.
Don't confuse her with someone like Becky Hammon, who grew up in a different era. You might want to brush up a little on her history. Unequivocally, she is among the more qualified coaches that Karl could have on his bench.
Haven't read the thread but let me guess. Mostly negative until cuz's tweet. 
http://www.swishappeal.com/2015/7/31/9082849/demarcus-cousins-happy-about-nancy-lieberman
And that little exchange makes it all good. Don't care if she can coach or not. She could be somebody's favorite grandmother who knew more about cooking oatmeal cookies than she did basketball and it would STILL be all good as long as she and Cuz have a mutual regard like that coming in. Ever since the morons canned Malone there has been a trust gap for Cuz. I don't know how he and Lieberman know each other, but they seem to, and it seems to be all good between them, and so maybe she can be that bridge between Karl and Cuz. That ally that Cuz knows has his back and that he will therefor take critques from.
Haven't read the thread but let me guess. Mostly negative until cuz's tweet.
Now I'm fully on board with Boogie's new tweet confirmation.
Logic says NBA playing experience is huge plus for the X's and O's knowledge, but I run across an interesting list of coaches, who had no professional playing experience.
Red Auerbach
Gregg Popovich
Erik Spoelstra
Mike Budenholzer
Mike D'Antoni
Mike Brown
Frank Vogel
and
Mike Malone etc...
Gregg Popovich
Erik Spoelstra
Mike Budenholzer
Mike D'Antoni
Mike Brown
Frank Vogel
and
Mike Malone etc...
I won't set the bar high, she's an assistant coach and I think if she can be the cushion between Karl and Boogie, that's all I can ask for.
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This is a solid move by the organization. Not only does Nancy know a ton about basketball, she is also a great person inside and out! I think the thing everyone may be overlooking is the fact that she will always possess something nobody in the organization will have. That would be a woman's touch When tempers flair and things need to be resolved among grown men who refuse to cooperate it certainly doesn't hurt to have a lady say things in a nicer way to resolve the issue.
I can see her calming DMC when he's flaring up in a timeout or something. No player i think would show her the same attitude they would a guy....
or at least i hope so
When tempers flair and things need to be resolved among grown men who refuse to cooperate it certainly doesn't hurt to have a lady say things in a nicer way to resolve the issue. I can see her calming DMC when he's flaring up in a timeout or something. No player i think would show her the same attitude they would a guy....
or at least i hope so
Making a very poor assumption simply because someone doesn't agree with you isn't the best way to go about avoiding an argument. I'm very aware of Coach Lieberman's pedigree. I grew up following the game during her playing days. How many on this site can say that? I may not be an expert, but I'm quite educated on the history of the game and her place in it.
Prove it.
You can't.
Both of your assertions are hyperbole. You can't possibly know either statement to be correct.
Could she be more knowledgeable than someone like Bobby? Sure, she could. But the reverse could also very well be true. Bobby not only has played at the highest level and learned from hall of fame coaches, he's actively been around the game since his retirement in numerous capacities -- most notably as an NBA assistant and player development coach. It's entirely possible he is just as knowledgeable as Lieberman, if not more -- especially given the way the game is played today. We simply don't know. I'm not arguing one way or the other. I'm simply saying that it's a poor assumption to make a factual claim either way. We all have opinions. I get that. And your opinion differs from mine. I have no problem with that.
I look at it like this. Eric Musselman grew up a son of a longtime basketball coach and has been around the game for nearly 50 years. Did that experience and longevity make him a good NBA coach? Does that experience and longevity make him as or more knowledgeable about X's and O's than Jackson or Lieberman? No. And Lieberman's long experience in the women's game, along with her short tenure as a men's D-league coach, doesn't unequivocally equate to her knowing more than Bobby Jackson or, even a better example, Steve Kerr who has only 1 year experience as a coach at any level. Lastly, Lieberman's NBA men's coaching/development experience, which is all that really matters in this discussion, isn't drastically different than Bobby's. Considering all that, I believe you and others are drawing conclusions that may or may not be true.
Prove it.
You can't.
Both of your assertions are hyperbole. You can't possibly know either statement to be correct.
Could she be more knowledgeable than someone like Bobby? Sure, she could. But the reverse could also very well be true. Bobby not only has played at the highest level and learned from hall of fame coaches, he's actively been around the game since his retirement in numerous capacities -- most notably as an NBA assistant and player development coach. It's entirely possible he is just as knowledgeable as Lieberman, if not more -- especially given the way the game is played today. We simply don't know. I'm not arguing one way or the other. I'm simply saying that it's a poor assumption to make a factual claim either way. We all have opinions. I get that. And your opinion differs from mine. I have no problem with that.
I look at it like this. Eric Musselman grew up a son of a longtime basketball coach and has been around the game for nearly 50 years. Did that experience and longevity make him a good NBA coach? Does that experience and longevity make him as or more knowledgeable about X's and O's than Jackson or Lieberman? No. And Lieberman's long experience in the women's game, along with her short tenure as a men's D-league coach, doesn't unequivocally equate to her knowing more than Bobby Jackson or, even a better example, Steve Kerr who has only 1 year experience as a coach at any level. Lastly, Lieberman's NBA men's coaching/development experience, which is all that really matters in this discussion, isn't drastically different than Bobby's. Considering all that, I believe you and others are drawing conclusions that may or may not be true.
I don't know whether it's accurate to say that Bobby Jackson is not as knowledgeable about basketball as Nancy Lieberman, but if you've ever heard Bobby Jackson talk about basketball, it's certainly not an unreasonable conclusion to come to. If he is more knowledgeable about basketball, he does not appear particularly adept at articulating that knowledge.
And I wouldn't conflate "playing at the highest level" with being knowledgeable about basketball, anyway. Jackson never impressed me as someone who had a particularly extraordinary basketball IQ during his playing days; he may well just be an extraordinary athlete, and/or a basketball savant.
And I wouldn't conflate "playing at the highest level" with being knowledgeable about basketball, anyway. Jackson never impressed me as someone who had a particularly extraordinary basketball IQ during his playing days; he may well just be an extraordinary athlete, and/or a basketball savant.
Being knowledgeable and being articulate are 2 different things. Obviously a lot more goes into coaching than experience and knowledge of X' and O's. If a coach isn't able to relate or communicate effectively to their players, they likely aren't going to be a successful coach no matter how much knowledge they may have. As has been pointed out by others, there have been numerous coaches that have enjoyed success despite lacking playing and/or coaching experience. Some have an innate ability to motivate and foster team unity but lack in the X's and O's department.
I've already used Eric Musselman as an example and will do so again. He is surely able to articulate quite well, as well as put together nice power point presentations, but it doesn't prove he knows more than anyone else that's been involved with the league for years.
Lastly, while I do agree with you that playing at the highest level doesn't automatically equate to being a great basketball mind, it does add additional perspective that those that did not play at the same level do not have. That additional perspective is precisely why a vast majority of coaches in nearly any sport you can name are former players. An advanced degree isn't required to be successful in life, but it certainly helps. And a larger percentage of successful people have an advanced degree. Same logic applies here. Men's professional playing experience isn't required, but it often helps. If you compile a list of the most successful coaches at the pro and NCAA levels, most of them played at that level at one time or another. While Coach Lieberman obviously has that experience at the women's level, the men's game is a drastically different game. It's not played the same at all.
I've already used Eric Musselman as an example and will do so again. He is surely able to articulate quite well, as well as put together nice power point presentations, but it doesn't prove he knows more than anyone else that's been involved with the league for years.
Lastly, while I do agree with you that playing at the highest level doesn't automatically equate to being a great basketball mind, it does add additional perspective that those that did not play at the same level do not have. That additional perspective is precisely why a vast majority of coaches in nearly any sport you can name are former players. An advanced degree isn't required to be successful in life, but it certainly helps. And a larger percentage of successful people have an advanced degree. Same logic applies here. Men's professional playing experience isn't required, but it often helps. If you compile a list of the most successful coaches at the pro and NCAA levels, most of them played at that level at one time or another. While Coach Lieberman obviously has that experience at the women's level, the men's game is a drastically different game. It's not played the same at all.
I would again suggest that it no longer matters. Her coaching resume is thin to the point of being irrelevant. But she's a legendary thing in the woman's game, and she and Cuz seem to know and like each other. Hence I don't care anymore if she can coach. She's coaching gravy. We've got a full staff of gcoaches who have proven longterm they can coach in the NBA, including a 1000 win head coach. We really aren't depending on her to revolutionize our X's and O's. If Karl will just get out of his own way he's got 25 years of proof he can win in the NBA without her. In fact the single biggest contribution she could make a a coach? Precisely what it looks like she may be able to do: talk to Cuz, be a trusted voice. Its a huge part of coaching anyway. And in our particular case exactly the one part where we could be weakest. We've got the X's and O's covered already. What we need is trust and communication. I wouldn't have necessarily banked on that from Lieberman, but just glancing at Cuz''s reaction, it looks like we may get it from her. So whether she knows more or Bobby knows more or whatever isn't the key: will Cuz listen to her? If the answer is yes it trumps any extra Xs and Os.
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Does EVERYTHING have to revolve around Cuz with you? I mean, seriously, what is he going to say? Is he going to Tweet that he doesn't want her here? She's just an assistant coach who happens to be a female. She also is in the HOF and by all accounts is extremely valuable to a team as a coach. Did you analyze the other male assistants to make sure they were okay with Cuz?
I couldn't agree more. While I enjoyed watching Bobby has an explosive 6th man when we were good I've never quite understood the popularity and respect that he gets around here. Like you said, he really doesn't come across as all that articulate and knowledgeable when I've heard him on TV. I don't have anything against him at all but I guess I just don't get his God-like status around town.
Most everything yes. He is the franchise, and you lose his investment then everything Vlade has done this summer is a waste, and even foolhardy. We've gone all in and gambled everything on our ability to retain Cuz and quickly put a winner around him. All moves have to be analyzed in that light first and foremost.
And no, you didn't see Cuz hugging the other assistants and tweeting out congratulatory tweets and getting love back from them. This was exceptional.
And again no, there are very few accounts of Lieberman being valuable as a coach, because she has barely coached, and when she did, she didn't win. She's sub-.500 in about 120 games coaching the WNBA and D-League, most of which took place 15 years ago (the single D-league season was 5 years ago). She was a valuable player. She went on to become a talking head. Her coaching resume in between is about as barren as you are going to find for a 57 year old being hired to be a first time assistant coach. Her true value could be as a Cuz whisperer.
And no, you didn't see Cuz hugging the other assistants and tweeting out congratulatory tweets and getting love back from them. This was exceptional.
And again no, there are very few accounts of Lieberman being valuable as a coach, because she has barely coached, and when she did, she didn't win. She's sub-.500 in about 120 games coaching the WNBA and D-League, most of which took place 15 years ago (the single D-league season was 5 years ago). She was a valuable player. She went on to become a talking head. Her coaching resume in between is about as barren as you are going to find for a 57 year old being hired to be a first time assistant coach. Her true value could be as a Cuz whisperer.