My 2 cents on the Kings

Catalyst · Jan 14, 2006

I just wanted to chime in here and add my thoughts to what I feel the Kings are doing and where I think they're going.

First off, Petrie is a guy that's going to hold his cards until he gets a good offer. If any of you are wondering why the Kings haven't done a deal already, I think the best explanation is they haven't gotten an offer worth going for.

There's no point making a trade that only improves us a little bit, as that doesn't get us back to being a playoff team. Sac HAS to deal for people that are going to make a large impact on the team, or there's no point in making a deal.

A lot of Sac's key players have lowered value because of the way they're playing, or they're injured -- which makes getting return value back difficult.

Secondly, the team basically has had the wind taken out of their sails. The injuries and the losses have piled up to the point that there's no way this team is going to give a great effort on the court night in and night out -- in it's current state.

You can be sure management has figured the same thing and wants to change it as soon as possible, but at the same time they don't want to walk into the losing end of a trade.

As such Sac might hold their cards for the entire season if needs be and get a good lotto pick. And while it's possible a nice deal for an All-Star level player is out there, I just don't know if it will happen before the trade deadline.

Keep in mind that franchises like the Orlando Magic, Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trailblazers and several other squads have tried quick-fix rebuilding and it has gotten them very little in the end.

When you do rush-job trades that are risky, those risks rarely pay off.

Geoff Petrie has proven he has a great eye for talent, and although this might be hard to hear, the main thing to try to have is patience. He's going to need time to figure out how to get the Kings out of their funk and that's what he's trying to do right now.

A solution could happen tomorrow, next week or next season.

tyrant · Jan 14, 2006

i think everyone is panicing because we haven't had this type of season in years. everyone who isn't a kings fan has said that the kings will get worse and worse as the seasons pass. we are experiencing that right now. people want things done in a hurry. so i say it's not the best thing to make a quick trade that will only improve us by a little bit; but to wait and hold out on a terrific deal.

i have a question. the kings/petrie and all of the kings' fans know what it takes to win. we know that we were modeled around the great skills of chris webber and the passing ability of doug and jason williams. when mike came we got alot better becuase he was more enforcing than jason williams. so if we can't find the correct pieces to keep the princeton offense together ((ala an athletic big man that can pass and shoot)), are we gonna find a new offense scheme?

Catalyst · Jan 14, 2006

Every new set of players means changes to the offense. You've probably noticed that we don't run the same offensive sets we used to when Webber/Vlade were here. For example you don't see the pick and roll near as much.

Anyway, a more direct answer to your question would be this. Adelman is a big fan of the motion-offense. I think that if we keep Adelman as a coach, we'll probably keep a similar offense as well, albeit in a different form to accommodate whatever players we have next season.

Bad Boy Bo · Jan 14, 2006

My two cents. Kings suck. Obviously something is just not clicking (granted with all the injuries). But hey, I know I expected more, but we've seen worst. Anyways, GO KINGS!

Wuster · Jan 14, 2006

tyrant said:

i think everyone is panicing because we haven't had this type of season in years. everyone who isn't a kings fan has said that the kings will get worse and worse as the seasons pass. we are experiencing that right now. people want things done in a hurry. so i say it's not the best thing to make a quick trade that will only improve us by a little bit; but to wait and hold out on a terrific deal.

i have a question. the kings/petrie and all of the kings' fans know what it takes to win. we know that we were modeled around the great skills of chris webber and the passing ability of doug and jason williams. when mike came we got alot better becuase he was more enforcing than jason williams. so if we can't find the correct pieces to keep the princeton offense together ((ala an athletic big man that can pass and shoot)), are we gonna find a new offense scheme?

Not substantially different as long as Adelman is the coach. Goes the same for any defensive changes/emphasis.

Folsom Al · Jan 14, 2006

KARMA !!!

Things happen for a reason and the King's are RIGHT WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE !!!

It's up to them how they COME-OUT of this tail-spin.

THEM = KING'S ORGANIZATION

HndsmCelt · Jan 14, 2006

Folsom Al said:

Some one watches TOO MUCH "My Name is Earl"

thesanityannex · Jan 14, 2006

Catalyst said:

Your first point is right on the money. All of the trade pieces have played like crap..................who would want them now? Right now the most we could get in a trade is Bibby for Sasha Vujacic, Miller for Jerome James, and Peja for Luke Walton. Petrie is definitely waiting for their value to go up, now is not the time to trade anyone. We are in for a long season.

Tenacious D · Jan 14, 2006

Did anyone watch the interview with Bobby Jackson where he talked about how much their coach pushes defense? He said that they spend whole practices do nothing but defensive drills. There is no way that we spend whole practices letting Bibby run down the court and shoot 3s so what are we doing there. It seems to me like our offense is so easy (Bibby hogs the ball for 20 seconds then hucks up a 3, or throws it to another person that throws up a three or other contested jump shot) that we should have all the time in the world to practice defense.

Rebounding and defense is the name of the game. If you have not done this and want to get madder then you already are just watch the game with the focus on what our guys do when a shot goes up. It makes your brain hurt.

We shoot - everyone gets back on defense. Unless they are already under the basket they run the other way. THAT IS COACHING. If you watch Detroit at least 3 of the guys stay there trying to get a rebound and then someone gets in the face of the rebounder so that they cannot throw it down the court.

They shoot – then a couple of people break out for the basket – Bibby stands ready to receive the rebound that someone gets, and a player or two actually go for it. THIS IS COACHING.

We do not get enough fast or have enough fast breaks going the other way to have this rebound philosophy. Even on a good day a team only shoots 50% so that means there are a lot of rebounds that could be points.

All this to say – our offense is too basic not to focus on rebounding and defense. Bibby and Brad will get their shots and the rest will get the leftovers even if we never spent another minute practicing offense but the defense could improve buy 10 to 20 points if it got better.

Just my two cents.

BawLa · Jan 14, 2006

It's not all bad. With the injuries we are getting to see some of our younger talent. Although the value is dropping in our starters, the value is slowly raising in our youth. I think we may see one of our young guys starting next year. And I'm not against it.

captain bill · Jan 15, 2006

Catalyst said:

Petrie does not have a free pass. The Webber trade last year proves it- a quick trade just to get rid of a player he didn't like, regardless of what he got in return, and that may have tanked our franchise. Now IS the time to make a trade, because at season's end we will automatically become worse. Peja will either walk for nothing or sign here for the max (terrible for us, and the most likely thing to happen). Knowing Petrie's history, he will probably let Bonzi go as well. "Patience" means slowly bleeding our talent and putting the nails in our coffin. Making trades is trying to stay afloat, keeping our talent and investments in the hope that we can, eventually, build a contender again. We are not where the Blazers or Magic were, he have talent that can be traded for good players. If we sit tight we lose everything, and keep a mediocre to bad squad. A "solution" could happen tomorrow, but if Petrie's current stance of "Patience and Peja" holds true, it won't happen for about a decade.

LakerN49erChick05 · Jan 15, 2006

i think the kings should just shut up and play D. i've seen games where the Kings will argue and yell at a ref about not getting a call instead of paying attention on D.

Dreadnought · Jan 15, 2006

And what lottery picks did you have in mind? As opposed to the recent 03-04 Draft class, 04 and 05 have been VERY weak, and 06 I feel will be very similar in talent. Assuming we have the 5-10th pick in the draft this year (based on the standings we are in now), who would you select with that pick? Besides Rudy Gay and Adam Morrison who I think will go 1 and 2 respectively.

Bricklayer · Jan 15, 2006

Just doing the numbers again:

we are 14-21, 47 games to go.

Just to reach .500 (41-41) we have to finish 27-20, which would be about a 47 win pace over a full year.

To reach 45 wins, the same number as the #8 team last year, we have to go 31-16, which would be a 54 win pace over a full year.

To reach 50 wins, our total from last year, we would have to go 36-11, which would be a 63 win pace(!!) over a full year.

We have 10 games left in January. 6 of those 10 come in one big long East Coast road trip, with the only saving grace being that we are not playing the East's best. We will still have neither Bonzi nor Reef for those games (maybe Bonzi to begin Feb, maybe), and Peja's availability now seems in question too. We will do well to maintain our .400 pace and go 4-6. That would put us at 18-27. Needing to go 23-14 just to reach .500. 27-10 just to reach 45 wins. An impossible 32-5 to reach 50 wins.

And all of that with the toughest month of our entire year (March) still looming in the future.

All of the above numbers really just telling me that a move at the trade deadline is very likely going to be a move made for the future, for NEXT year, not this one. The time to make moves for this year is rapidly coming to a close.

DaMan · Jan 15, 2006

My 2 cents could be sumed up in a few words, time to rebuild.

VF21 · Jan 15, 2006

LakerN49erChick05 said:

I think people who live in glass houses should avoid throwing stones.

We have Laker fan members who have been around here a long time because they don't start poking sticks at our team. You might want to consider that tactic.

It's different for KINGS fans to talk about what they see as the failings of THEIR team. It's like picking on your cousin. YOU can do it, but the neighbors from across the holler better not try it.

Folsom Al · Jan 15, 2006

HndsmCelt said:

Is that right ??? I've never seen or watched Earl ...

I won't say GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE ... cuz I don't know didly about Earl

HndsmCelt · Jan 15, 2006

Funniest show on TV Al... check it out Thursday at 9

LakerN49erChick05 · Jan 15, 2006

Dreadnought said:

there's that high school kid too... greg oden i think. heard hes projected to go #1 if he skips college

bbb · Jan 15, 2006

He can't skip college. The new CBA states that a player must be one year removed from his high school graduation to enter the draft (basically he's got to go to college for one year). Oden's going to Ohio State.

captain bill · Jan 15, 2006

bbb said:

So....we tank next year and we'll be in business

Dreadnought · Jan 15, 2006

LakerN49erChick05 said:

you would really bank our future as a dynasty on a gamble of a high school kid? i understand cases like lebron, kg, and tmac occur, but cases like kuame brown, darius miles occur even more.

Bricklayer · Jan 15, 2006

Dreadnought said:

There are no guarantees in sports. But the payoff is well worth it if you get it right. Just have to have confidence in your scouting. And if you have any doubts, bail.

Dreadnought · Jan 16, 2006

Bricklayer said:

That is a given. But I'd much much much rather draft a kid whom we know to have upside. Take Emeka Okafor for example. The guy is a beast, game from college with a NCAA Championship under his belt, as did Carmelo. Both turned out quite well. However, then there is Marvin Williams. My point being, why rest our future among a gamble instead of drafting a already NBA ready player.

Bricklayer · Jan 16, 2006

Dreadnought said:

Because the "NBA ready players" are less likely to ever LEAD you anywhere. Melo is not LeBron, and Okafor is not Howard. Their teams drafted safe, but 5 years from now the teams that took the risks will be the ones with the golden futures. Nor is it even remotely like college kids are a sure thing either.

Talent is talent, if you want to be great you've got to get your hands on a great player somehow. Getting a Top 5 type pick and going safe and merely coming out of it with a solid starter is just a waste IMO. You get a chance to draft a great one, you have to take it.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Jan 16, 2006

Bricklayer said:

What about a Top 6 pick? Take the 2001 draft for example: I think that, if GM's got to do that draft over, knowing then what they know about the players now, that Battier is still a good pick for #6.

I would personally re-draft the lottery picks as such:

1. Gasol
2. Curry
3. Richardson
4. Johnson
5. Dalembert
6. Battier (or Randolph)
7. Randolph (or Battier)
8. Wallace
9. Jefferson
10. Chandler
11. Murphy
12. Parker
13. Diop

HndsmCelt · Jan 16, 2006

Bricklayer said:

Ah the logic of a true gambler. What is missing from this analysis is the reality that MOST of the teams that draft raw tallent HS players do NOT have superstars a few years later. LBJ, is a HUGE exception to rule in that the scouting was VERY clear on him before the draft so there was much less risk, hence the fact that every team with a ball in the lotto would have taken him had they pulled the #1.

So while some (a selct few) of the young picks really pay off most of them turn out fair. Yes the recent college top pics have not been as phemenominal, in part due to a pre-college bleeding of top tallent. But remember most of the GREAT players in the NBA were drafted out of college.

In the end it is always timing and often having an eye for tallent.

Bricklayer · Jan 16, 2006

LBJ would be a huge exception to the rule if half of the league's superstars did not share his lack of college experience -- LeBron, TMac, Kobe, Amare, KG...soon to be joined by Howard most likely. Which would clearly seem to imply the superstar hit percentage for the relatively rare high schoolers is actually much HIGHER than it is for collegians.

Hence if you want a superstar...

Of course all of that will change with the new age rules. But only a little. The greatest talents will still be identified and come out at younger ages than the more pedestrian ones. Too much money + temptation. There will be an anachronistic holdover or two in every draft, but as a rule if you are drafting a guy who stayed in school you are drafting a guy who simply wasn't good enough to leave earlier. You have to hope for a very late bloomer.

SacTownKid · Jan 16, 2006

Mr. S£im Citrus said:

What about a Top 6 pick? Take the 2001 draft for example: I think that, if GM's got to do that draft over, knowing then what they know about the players now, that Battier is still a good pick for #6.

I would personally re-draft the lottery picks as such:

1. Gasol
2. Curry
3. Richardson
4. Johnson
5. Dalembert
6. Battier (or Randolph)
7. Randolph (or Battier)
8. Wallace
9. Jefferson
10. Chandler
11. Murphy
12. Parker
13. Diop

I don't know Diop is playing pretty well lately.

My 2 cents on the Kings

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