Much ado about nothing?

[Spike]

Okay, this is really small of me but I want to know who/what the factions are. Yes, it's none of my business, but I support these guys through thick & thin so I'm willing to look tacky.

• I'm guessing one camp is the Futures, consisting of DMC, IT, Rudy-Quincy-Sasquatch, and Ben.
  
  
• The other would be the Yesterdays... JT, MT, Chuck, and anyone else who used to be somebody. These are the guys who've lived with the worst of DMC and now get to watch their role diminish while he gets the spotlight.
  
  
• That would leave a third camp, the Lost Boys (guys with no role/future), who are not affiliated with either group and just remain frustrated and in limbo. I see Jimmer in this camp.

Does this seem at all close to reality?

I'd wager that most of the issue is in the first camp. JT & MT haven't really changed. In fact, JT has been about as steady a soldier as we've ever had. I seriously doubt he's an issue. However, we'll never know, because we'll never know.

 

[Gilles]

On the radio, CD did say there are factions being made but that Cuz and IT were on the same page. He mentioned that there was a rift between Cuz and JT but didn't elaborate....didn't really elaborate on anything specifically other than Cuz ....hates losing and is trying to be a leader....although maybe being to much of an a-hole at times but bottom line is the losing is unacceptable....which is a great point on what Cuz is upset about.
I think JT is probably moved by the deadline.

If CD overstepped his boundaries and is now walking back, he would post this even if Cuz and IT weren't on the same page to keep whatever trade value IT might have. One thing I believe for sure is that it will be resolved pretty soon, i.e. before the deadline, and we'll get most answers CD's tweets brought.

 

[MizzouKing]

I'd wager that most of the issue is in the first camp...

The Internet rumor mill would agree with you. Team ball...who knew??

 

[Gary]

Quite frankly they can follow DeMarcus' lead or they can get out of town. I wouldn't be surprised if the real problem is certain players thinking they're on the same level of Cuz and rejecting him as the leader.

Definitely agree. NOBODY on this team is anywhere close to Cousins level of talent, and he has a right to be frustrated when others are dragging ass and cousins is putting up 20-10 nightly. Maybe Cousins is going about it wrong, but the other players need to listen and take what he's saying to heart. Cousins might not be saying things the right way but they should know by now that sometimes he does say things a bit harsh but he means something totally sincere.

I have the tendency to blurt things out which sound the total opposite of what I was meaning for it to sound like. By now the rest of the team should know that if he's bitching and moaning about other players play on the court that he REALLY means that they need to step it up.

 

[macadocious]

So you want Tyreke to play PG for us?

 

[Entity]

well apparently cousins and IT called a players only meeting. so i guess that shows the click there.

 

[rainmaker]

By now the rest of the team should know that if he's bitching and moaning about other players play on the court that he REALLY means that they need to step it up.

That leads to another issue and why I don't think this is the last of the matter, players meeting today or not.

At a certain extent we just don't have the talent necessary to step up enough to make a difference. We have two players who'd start for most teams league wide in Cuz/Gay. JT and IT would be rotation players. After that there's a huge talent drain. Asking mediocre NBA talent to step up only goes so far, hence the growing frustration as the majority of our roster has a low ceiling as NBA caliber players.

It doesn't really matter a whole lot if Cuz asks Ben to really, really step up and playing like a starting SG tomorrow, or asks Jimmer to really, really step up and run the team like a legit backup PG when he's out there, or asking any of our bigs to really step it up and become the shot blocking presence we need, or asking IT or MT to really step up and become defenders which don't hurt us, and on and on. The issue is our players for the most part aren't good enough and don't excel where we need them to excel most.

BTW, team meetings rarely do all that much for teams which suck. It can cover things up in the near term but when the issues are fundamental, which they are with us, they aren't going anywhere. It does hopefully cool tensions until we see some trades though.

 

[Kingster]

That leads to another issue and why I don't think this is the last of the matter, players meeting today or not.

At a certain extent we just don't have the talent necessary to step up enough to make a difference. We have two players who'd start for most teams league wide in Cuz/Gay. JT and IT would be rotation players. After that there's a huge talent drain. Asking mediocre NBA talent to step up only goes so far, hence the growing frustration as the majority of our roster has a low ceiling as NBA caliber players.

It doesn't really matter a whole lot if Cuz asks Ben to really, really step up and playing like a starting SG tomorrow, or asks Jimmer to really, really step up and run the team like a legit backup PG when he's out there, or asking any of our bigs to really step it up and become the shot blocking presence we need, or asking IT or MT to really step up and become defenders which don't hurt us, and on and on. The issue is our players for the most part aren't good enough and don't excel where we need them to excel most.

BTW, team meetings rarely do all that much for teams which suck. It can cover things up in the near term but when the issues are fundamental, which they are with us, they aren't going anywhere. It does hopefully cool tensions until we see some trades though.

I agree. It's highly improbable the talent level is going to change this year. Part of maturity is dealing with what is, rather than what you would like there to be, without angry outbursts at fellow teamates. To me, Cousins, and everybody else on the team, has to focus on what they can control, not what they can't, and the only thing they can control is working hard every single day to be on the same page defensively (and offensively). If each player sees that nobody is slacking off, that's all you can ask for. That's why Cousins needs to lead the way in the effort department, which is exactly what Vivek was talking about at the beginning of the season.

 

[SacTownKid]

The offending play. Enjoy.

What Thomas did was selfish but I didn't know JT reacted like that. I'm surprised Malone didn't send him to the back. He just gave up and started walking away! Thompson is more concerned with what he can get offensively than anything else. He needs a new situation that might not be so effected by his defensive shortcomings and can allow him to get his offensively.

 

[Uncia03]

What Thomas did was selfish but I didn't know JT reacted like that. I'm surprised Malone didn't send him to the back. He just gave up and started walking away! Thompson is more concerned with what he can get offensively than anything else. He needs a new situation that might not be so effected by his defensive shortcomings and can allow him to get his offensively.

One of the issues in this case is that JT was our best player in the 1st half, especially since Cousins couldn't get anything to drop in the 1st half. (And that's been the only case this season where he has been the best player in the 1st half)
And after being our best player in the 1st half he got zero field-goal attempts in the 2nd half. None. I'll repeat that again. He didn't even get an attempt.
If IT had passed the ball to him to allow him to finish it would have been his only FG attempt of the 2nd half.
So from JT's perspective he was playing absolutely great ball and then the other players decided to never let him touch it in the 2nd half.
I'm not saying that JT has to be a main component of the offense, but from his perspective he did all the heavy lifting in the 1st half and then got utterly frozen out.
The fact that IT didn't reward him in that play basically crystalized the issue for him.
I would have been frustrated as well.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

Demarcus Cousins pretty much stated in an interview that the current Kings roster is not good enough to be a winning team and that must of the teams in the nba look at us as a guaranteed win. He said that we just need to keep working together and the players meeting went really well and they all had a good practice.
We'll see how it goes but I think IT should probably be traded as soon as possible. I don't like his ego nor his game with us.
And he'd probably not want to stay if we asked him to be a sixth man so good riddance, kid.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

One of the issues in this case is that JT was our best player in the 1st half, especially since Cousins couldn't get anything to drop in the 1st half. (And that's been the only case this season where he has been the best player in the 1st half)
And after being our best player in the 1st half he got zero field-goal attempts in the 2nd half. None. I'll repeat that again. He didn't even get an attempt.
If IT had passed the ball to him to allow him to finish it would have been his only FG attempt of the 2nd half.
So from JT's perspective he was playing absolutely great ball and then the other players decided to never let him touch it in the 2nd half.
I'm not saying that JT has to be a main component of the offense, but from his perspective he did all the heavy lifting in the 1st half and then got utterly frozen out.
The fact that IT didn't reward him in that play basically crystalized the issue for him.
I would have been frustrated as well.

Most of the time, the only players that he doesn't "freeze out", are Cousins and Gay. Sometimes, even them to an extent

 

[rainmaker]

I agree. It's highly improbable the talent level is going to change this year. Part of maturity is dealing with what is, rather than what you would like there to be, without angry outbursts at fellow teamates. To me, Cousins, and everybody else on the team, has to focus on what they can control, not what they can't, and the only thing they can control is working hard every single day to be on the same page defensively (and offensively). If each player sees that nobody is slacking off, that's all you can ask for. That's why Cousins needs to lead the way in the effort department, which is exactly what Vivek was talking about at the beginning of the season.

True, but it's also tougher to ask everyone to commit to a common goal and stick together when fans and players alike know PDA is looking to wheel and deal and has been very honest he'll move players. When the majority of the roster is not in the team's long term plans and players will likely be gone both by the deadline and/or 6 months from now, it just makes that request that much less likely to resonate.

 

[rainmaker]

What Thomas did was selfish but I didn't know JT reacted like that. I'm surprised Malone didn't send him to the back. He just gave up and started walking away! Thompson is more concerned with what he can get offensively than anything else. He needs a new situation that might not be so effected by his defensive shortcomings and can allow him to get his offensively.

I have no idea which JT you've been watching the last few years. He's the only one of our players who is in the rotation regularly who doesn't force shots, never has had a reputation for seeking out his offense or even demanding the ball and pretty much is the ultimate role player who regularly puts defense and hitting the boards above his own offense.

Even judging by that play alone I have no idea how you come to the conclusion JT is the one more concerned with his offense than anything else. Was he the one who didn't make the obvious pass and failed to reward his big for running the floor, one of the unspoken rules in basketball?

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

A part of me wished that Carmichael Dave would just be quiet some times. All this stuff could of been handled without trying to the fans and the larger media involved. Once again CD's motivations seem to be to draw as much attention for himself as possible just because he wants to be in the center of the spotlight. If he wants to be a part of the organization then he needs to take it easy on the booze and act like a professional.

 

[Glenn]

A part of me wished that Carmichael Dave would just be quiet some times. All this stuff could of been handled without trying to the fans and the larger media involved. Once again CD's motivations seem to be to draw as much attention for himself as possible just because he wants to be in the center of the spotlight. If he wants to be a part of the organization then he needs to take it easy on the booze and act like a professional.

That's cruel. CD has done as much to keep the team here as anyone. I don't know what that tells you about his motivations but it is positive as far as I am concerned. His information tends to be accurate and more accurate than most people's information. I didn't know he was part of the organization and I REALLY don't understand the cheap shot about booze. Your note is very easy to ignore.

 

[kennadog]

IT admitted later that he should have passed to JT.

Losing is bad for team chemistry. But then, winning makes team chemistry good. People always talk about the good team chemistry on a winning team, but I think its a chicken/egg conundrum. Which really came first?

I disagree with people who would rather see teammates arguing than being happy on the bench. Arguments among teammates about whose fault things are or calling each other out for perceived failings is loser thinking. No team will win when they are doing that.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean they should be happy and laughing on the bench or resigned to losing. I don't want them arguing. I want them to each look in the mirror and tell themselves what they individually need to do to improve and help the team win. Then work hard on improving your own weaknesses. Listen to the coach, watch tapes of other players religiously and learn about your opponents in detail. Work your tails off in practice and in games. Do NOT accept losing or its inevitability.

Don't tear up your teammates. The coach will tell them what they did wrong or what they need to do. Then support your teammate by listening to your coach and doing what he tells you to do. Forget the last mistake. It can't be fixed. Focus on the next play and trying not to make mistakes yourself. Focus harder on the defense and the offense will come.

Dammit, you are Sacramento Kings. If we can support you as fans no matter what and be proud to say we're Kings fans, then don't you dare hang your head or give up on us. Be proud, work harder than you ever have.

 

[kennadog]

By the way. CD may have let some details emerge, but GG and GN and the post-game crew all commented on team members arguing with each other. It happened. Hopefully the team meeting helped.

Edit: I should say that by the end of the game I was really angry. I could've slapped some payers. But mostly I was very disappointed. I stayed until the end, but it was easy to leave the arena and parking lot, because so many left early. The game just felt so bad. My signature is still valid, though.

 

[VF21]

A part of me wished that Carmichael Dave would just be quiet some times. All this stuff could of been handled without trying to the fans and the larger media involved. Once again CD's motivations seem to be to draw as much attention for himself as possible just because he wants to be in the center of the spotlight. If he wants to be a part of the organization then he needs to take it easy on the booze and act like a professional.

That is way out of line. I know Dave and he is nothing like what you have tried to portray. He's a good guy, a fan first who happened to eventually get his dream job of being a radio sports guy in the city he loves. It's not about him being the center of attention. He has worked VERY HARD to help keep the Kings in Sacramento, putting his family on the back burner while he took his RV cross country for the cause. I have seen him cry with joy and sorrow during this long, long battle and you know why? BECAUSE HE CARES.

The personal shot about him needing to "take it easy on the booze" is something I will not even dignify by responding to.

I am very rarely ashamed or embarrassed over something that has posted on Kingsfans.com Congratulations. You've managed to make me feel both.

 

[King Baller]

Quite frankly they can follow DeMarcus' lead or they can get out of town. I wouldn't be surprised if the real problem is certain players thinking they're on the same level of Cuz and rejecting him as the leader.

I'm glad IT got that shot blocked. He is so speedy yet he was caught from behind. he should have passed to JT.

KB

 

[SacTownKid]

One of the issues in this case is that JT was our best player in the 1st half, especially since Cousins couldn't get anything to drop in the 1st half. (And that's been the only case this season where he has been the best player in the 1st half)
And after being our best player in the 1st half he got zero field-goal attempts in the 2nd half. None. I'll repeat that again. He didn't even get an attempt.
If IT had passed the ball to him to allow him to finish it would have been his only FG attempt of the 2nd half.
So from JT's perspective he was playing absolutely great ball and then the other players decided to never let him touch it in the 2nd half.
I'm not saying that JT has to be a main component of the offense, but from his perspective he did all the heavy lifting in the 1st half and then got utterly frozen out.
The fact that IT didn't reward him in that play basically crystalized the issue for him.
I would have been frustrated as well.

He's a role player though, or at least should be. Freezing out a Jason Thompson really shouldn't be an issue to anyone, including Jason if that's his role. This team doesn't need another mouth to feed in the post. The play in question is one thing but with the position in question that player should be more worried about spacing for his teammates and team defense. Unfortunately he's more offensively inclined than he is defensively and that's on the GM right now, find what you need and get JT into a place where he can maybe do a little more heavy lifting.

 

[SacTownKid]

I have no idea which JT you've been watching the last few years. He's the only one of our players who is in the rotation regularly who doesn't force shots, never has had a reputation for seeking out his offense or even demanding the ball and pretty much is the ultimate role player who regularly puts defense and hitting the boards above his own offense.

Even judging by that play alone I have no idea how you come to the conclusion JT is the one more concerned with his offense than anything else. Was he the one who didn't make the obvious pass and failed to reward his big for running the floor, one of the unspoken rules in basketball?

It's not a knock on Jason really, more the fit with this roster. More like a case of he is what he is. He is more offensively inclined and I question what Jason Thompson you've been watching if you don't agree. Usually when the perception is that he's playing well it's most likely on the offensive end. He just doesn't impact the game defensively as an individual or a help defender, never has. I know I've been watching that Jason Thompson. I think he can be a lot more offensively potent if given the chance, but this isn't the right team for that. Being a 4th option for this team when needed isn't the most major need right now.

Oh, and BTW if JT didn't give up on the play he may very well have been able to come up with that loose ball. IT was a butthole for doing that, I can't argue that, but as a role player you get your butt in their and don't pout. If you want make an issue after the play go ahead but that reaction by Jason Thompson speaks volumes about more than just a lack of chemistry, or team work.

 

[KingMilz]

What Thomas did was selfish but I didn't know JT reacted like that. I'm surprised Malone didn't send him to the back. He just gave up and started walking away! Thompson is more concerned with what he can get offensively than anything else. He needs a new situation that might not be so effected by his defensive shortcomings and can allow him to get his offensively.

I don't blame JT at all a play like that is exactly why the team is where it is, I would have done the same. Even Marcus Thornton of all people looks to give the ball up for a alley or something all the time in that situation.

That's chemistry killing stuff right there, it takes your desire to play the game if you see other people being selfish it's just human nature.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't blame JT at all a play like that is exactly why the team is where it is, I would have done the same. Even Marcus Thornton of all people looks to give the ball up for a alley or something all the time in that situation.

That's chemistry killing stuff right there, it takes your desire to play the game if you see other people being selfish it's just human nature.

Were I 6'11" and a PG did that to me after I busted my ass down the court, I would have chased his little ass down and blocked the shot myself.

 

[bloom]

The offending play. Enjoy.

Thanks...was there also a argument with the players after that?

It's not a knock on Jason really, more the fit with this roster. More like a case of he is what he is. He is more offensively inclined and I question what Jason Thompson you've been watching if you don't agree. Usually when the perception is that he's playing well it's most likely on the offensive end. He just doesn't impact the game defensively as an individual or a help defender, never has. I know I've been watching that Jason Thompson. I think he can be a lot more offensively potent if given the chance, but this isn't the right team for that. Being a 4th option for this team when needed isn't the most major need right now.

Oh, and BTW if JT didn't give up on the play he may very well have been able to come up with that loose ball. IT was a butthole for doing that, I can't argue that, but as a role player you get your butt in their and don't pout. If you want make an issue after the play go ahead but that reaction by Jason Thompson speaks volumes about more than just a lack of chemistry, or team work.

So I.T’s not a role player? I personally can’t agree with you. This is a team’s game. All 5 guys are important, and it’s the PG’s responsibly to make sure everyone’s happy on the floor. Granted, Jason shouldn’t have just quit like that (this is also the first time I've seen Jason do that), but Isaiah should take a long look at that sequence and understand that there are other guys that also need respect on the court.

I think a lot of people also undervalue Jason. I know he's not the "sexiest" guy on the court, he makes some bone-headed plays, sometime he complains too much to the refs, but the guy does his job and he's not a cancer in the locker room/doesn't complain.

Isaiah was interviewed a couple weeks ago and he said that it was his job to get his other player involved.

“I told Ben after the game the other night that it was on me to get him more shots,” Thomas said. “I’m not doing a good job at that. As a point guard, I’ve got to see what’s happening with him. I’m either going to DeMarcus too much ... got to get other guys going. I don’t want to say it’s a burden, but it is my responsibility. My role has changed.”

Source: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/24/6026790/ailene-voisin-its-hard-to-keep.html

……He still needs to figure out how to get everybody involved.

I think what some people (including players) don’t realize is, when everybody is clicking and they’re winning games, everybody looks better as a result of it. People tend to ignore the players inefficiencies and think that they’re better than they are….I’m also a little surprised to hear their might be a split in the team, considering that there have been some games this year that the team looks like a team.

 

[Npliam]

Were I 6'11" and a PG did that to me after I busted my ass down the court, I would have chased his little ass down and blocked the shot myself.

Guards should pass the ball to bigs to finish and bigs should pass the ball to guards to dribble down the court.

 

[VF21]

Guards should pass the ball to bigs to finish and bigs should pass the ball to guards to dribble down the court.

It looks so simple when you type it like that...

 

[IfAt1st]

I feel I need to mention a few things:

1) Watch the "horrible" choice IT made again on video: JT was one-half step ahead of him at halfcourt.
If anyone thinks JT (with a half-step) can get from halfcourt to the hoop faster than IT, they're neglecting reality.
When I saw the play at Sleep Train, I thought for a second he may have been able to get it to JT, but on video it's clear IT passed him by quickly. If the defender caught IT, he would have caught JT.

2) People demonizing IT for not passing it on the break, while they pine for Tyreke are a JOKE.
Complete hypocritical JOKES of subjectivity.
Tyreke made WAY more egregious non-passes on breaks for 4 years. Some of the most selfish plays I've ever seen in 30 years of watching the NBA.
But whoa now! When IT does it, he's a "rotation player" "breaking unspoken rules". (Yayy! We have a roll-eyes smiley!)

3) JT was more out of line by completely stopping on the play.
All he had to do was follow the play and he gets a likely easy lay-in.
Or he could have told IT "Man On!" or something to tell him there was a trailer trying to block him.
But no, he thought it was better to start pouting during the play. His career-long habit of pouting after plays is now metastasizing into the actual game.

4) DMC lecturing about players needing to give more effort during the game is a bit of the pot calling he kettle black.
He's the laziest star player I've EVER seen.
I LOVE watching him, and am a huge fan, but damned if I'm sick of his walking up the court and barely getting beyond the 3 pt line by 8 seconds left in the clock. We play more 4-vs-5 ball than any other team in the league solely because of him.

Having said all that, rainmaker has this Carmichael Dave situation dead-on, I'd wager : Dave was bringing attention to exactly what this team does not need more attention, and hurting this team.
Everything else he says is guaranteed smokescreen designed to smooth over his lack of composure in airing it publicly.

 

[Spike]

Sigh. I'll be brief.

1) There's no way a defender would be able to quickly recover from chasing IT down to be able to react and adjust within a second in order to stop JT. It's physics.

2) Tyreke has a different skill set. Driving is his strength. His job WAS to score. (I'm not sure why you brought him up, as he's not the issue here.) IT IS the issue, and he did botch that play (he admitted as much). He IS a rotation player whose job IS to set up others.

3) Maybe, but he also saw IT going full steam and look him off (IIRC.) He's not free from blame on that play, but he was having a good game, he ran the court, and should be rewarded for doing so. Considering he was frozen out, I don't entirely blame him. I don't absolve him, either.

4) Maybe you're not a big guy, but it isn't easy to drag yourself up and down the court when tiny dudes on your team dart from one end to the other. Maybe we're just watching different players.

 

[Chubbs]

Btw, I played basketball all the way till I was a freshman in high school. From what I recall, passing to hustling big men on the break is very much a spoken rule at all levels of basketball. I heard it when I was 5'7 passing to guys 6'2.

Little man was wrong, he admitted it. Let's not try to defend the indefensible.