Most Overrated Players

[monk81]

If the goal is to make a run at a Championship we need to assess our players...

1. Kevin Martin is a poor man's Ray Allen....third option on a championship team....

2. Mikki Moore and Bobby Jackson are the 10th and 11th best players...

3 Bobby Brown, Quincy Douby, Shelden Williams are what we thought they were.....

4. John Salmon and Beno Udrih are very much overrated...Both dribble too long and shoot first mentality is pathetic...

5. Francisco Garcia gets to much credit, only reason he plays is he reminds Reggie of himself....Flamboyant..

 

[Gary]

1. monk81 for starting this stupid thread.

 

[Trueblood]

If the goal is to make a run at a Championship we need to assess our players...

1. Kevin Martin is a poor man's Ray Allen....third option on a championship team....

2. Mikki Moore and Bobby Jackson are the 10th and 11th best players...

3 Bobby Brown, Quincy Douby, Shelden Williams are what we thought they were.....

4. John Salmon and Beno Udrih are very much overrated...Both dribble too long and shoot first mentality is pathetic...

5. Francisco Garcia gets to much credit, only reason he plays is he reminds Reggie of himself....Flamboyant..

Ok Dennis

 

[Kev.in]

You must've had really high expectations of this roster when training camp opened because some of those players you're listing are not even "rated", so who are you saying is overrating them?

Take a look around the NBA, gather some opinions and I don't think you're going to see anyone rating Udrih and Salmons very highly. Udrih is a guy who was cut by the Spurs and nobody really gave him a look until the Kings ran into some problems at the point guard position last season.

Bobby Brown was an undrafted free agent that we wrangled away from the Hornets summer league team. Shelden Williams was a throw-in on a trade, after the Hawks wasted a lottery pick on him.

Most observers around the league would say that Moore is overpaid and has a limited skill set and that Jackson is past his prime and not a reliable scoring threat. Does that sound overrated to anyone?

This team was expected to be a lottery team and that's what they're on pace for. If anyone has overrated these guys, maybe it's the Kings front office but at the same time they have to fill the roster out with something. They can't just take the summer off if there isn't a bunch of talent to acquire.

 

[SacKings7]

Martin a poor man's Ray Allen? I'd rather have Martin on my team than Allen any day of the week

 

[Bricklayer]

Martin a poor man's Ray Allen? I'd rather have Martin on my team than Allen any day of the week

In prime Allen was a better player. Just south of Kobe class. He'd give you 23ppg 5rpg and 5apg.

But Kevin's better than current Allen...although I do have to wonder, put Kevin on Boston, with a team full of expectations and KG woofing in his ear, would he sacrifice like Allen has? Would he play defense and forget about his shots? Not sure.

 

[jon e]

i think its a great assessment of our current team. these guys cant take us anywhere! no one expected us to make our "championship run" with this team.. did you? we need at least 2 more active trade deadlines, and two more offseasons before we can even think about playoffs. i can only hope that jt, kevin, donte, and spencer are the only ones sticking around for our long term plans

 

[RalphySampson]

OP: Please add a line in there about Brad Miller. You can't have an "Overrated" thread without good old BMiller in it.

Thanks.

 

[tyrant]

to be overrated you have to get credit for something good. something you've done. we dont have anyone on this team that had that kind of reputation.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think anyone overrated Salmons. He is what he is and I believe you could get a pretty consistant analyisis around the league on his skill level. Ditto Moore, Jackson and Brown.

Williams may have been overrated when he came out of the draft, but not now. We knew exactly what we were getting. Cisco may be overrated in Reggie's mind, but I think it ends there. I think Cisco is in the perfect role for him as a multiposition bench player that brings a little bit of everything to the floor. He just needs to stay healthy and continue to improve.

I do think Martin is somewhat overrated in the minds of the local media and some of the fans. He's at best, the number two option on a team. The problem with the Kings, is that they don't have a legit number one option at the moment. This puts the spotlight directly on Martin at the moment, and its probably unfair to him.

While were speaking about overrated, why not a couple of players that going into the season were underrated. Hawes and Thompson. Now while the jury may still be out on Thompson, and on Hawes to a lesser degree, they both have exceeded most peoples expectations.

Last but not least, Miller and Beno. I can't speak for everyone else on this fourm, but my expectations of Beno were far higher than his performance level at this point. He has underwhelmed me with his abilities. His passing decisions have been terrible and his shot selection leaves something to be desired. The only kudo I'll give him is that he's played decent defense at times, or that at least he tries.

Miller at times looks as though his mind is off in the woods staking prey. He's had some good moments, but as the losing has increased, he seems to have lost all inspiration. A good reason for not starting Hawes along with Miller, is because the contrast between the two at times makes Miller look like he's moving in slow motion.

 

[oaklandking]

Martin>Allen any day

 

[Showtime]

If the goal is to make a run at a Championship we need to assess our players...

1. Kevin Martin is a poor man's Ray Allen....third option on a championship team....

2. Mikki Moore and Bobby Jackson are the 10th and 11th best players...

3 Bobby Brown, Quincy Douby, Shelden Williams are what we thought they were.....

4. John Salmon and Beno Udrih are very much overrated...Both dribble too long and shoot first mentality is pathetic...

5. Francisco Garcia gets to much credit, only reason he plays is he reminds Reggie of himself....Flamboyant..

1. I'd say Martin is a good second option. He's a great spot shooter and catch-n-shoot from moving without the ball. He'd be great alongside Duncan, Lebron, or Chris Paul IMO. The Kings just don't have that #1 guy right now, but hopefully they will soon.

2. Moore actually has a mid range shot, but never takes it. He has horrible hands, doesn't rebound well at all, and isn't that great of a defender (despite Reggie's analysis). He's probably a starter on the all "starters who produce the least" lineup.

3. err...ok. AND WE LET EM OFF THE HOOK!

4. I'd dribble too much too if I had those finishing options. Beno is actually good if he's penetrating. Then I don't care if he dribbles because he's setting up teammates. It's when he can't break down the defense that he just tries to do too much. Salmons just isn't good when he's not finishing his shots, but he is one of the few who can isolate on his defender and score. He's also a better penetrator than Martin and Garcia when he's on his game, but he also tries to force things too much.

5. I kind of agree with this. He goes all out, and that can lead to making great plays and making very stupid ones. I like his effort, but he needs to be more controlled offensively.

 

[Kev.in]

Martin>Allen any day

Well, Martin is injured right now so maybe it does depend on the day. Allen's been playing pretty well lately and Martin is going to be sitting with his leg up and his shoe off for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

[tyrant]

i dont know what ray allen has to do with any of this. ray allen is respected across the world and martin doesnt belong in the same breath as him. right now. i agree with bajaden that martin is at best 2nd option. maybe 3rd on a championship team.

in the past ive noticed alot of fans here that have put martin on the pedestal. and ive always said he is pretty good, but he isnt great. people made him out to be the next franchise savior. he's no chris webber. and from '99 to '04 this team was one of the most feared in the league. kevin martin is overrated.

 

[Warhawk]

i dont know what ray allen has to do with any of this. ray allen is respected across the world and martin doesnt belong in the same breath as him. right now. i agree with bajaden that martin is at best 2nd option. maybe 3rd on a championship team.

in the past ive noticed alot of fans here that have put martin on the pedestal. and ive always said he is pretty good, but he isnt great. people made him out to be the next franchise savior. he's no chris webber. and from '99 to '04 this team was one of the most feared in the league. kevin martin is overrated.

I call BS. A lot of folks thought he'd be good, but I dare you to find more than one or two outlying posts that indicate anything of the sort.

Very few thought he'd turn into a 20+ ppg scorer this quickly, if at all, but I don't recall ANYONE saying he'd be a "franchise savior". Big difference between the "star" he is (as predicted by some) and that lofty prediction.

So we will wait - go find something to substantiate your claim.

 

[tyrant]

there has been more than a handful that came to his defense when i called him out. some of the few things that ive said about martin...

1. he needs to get in the weight room and lose that pre-teen frame some may call a body
2. he's one dimensional
3. he doesnt have a series of moves or fakes to get his own shot

im not going to list any names, they know who they are.

 

[Spike]

Ok Dennis

You wanna crown him? Then crown him! Just don't let him off the hook!

 

[Warhawk]

there has been more than a handful that came to his defense when i called him out. some of the few things that ive said about martin...

1. he needs to get in the weight room and lose that pre-teen frame some may call a body
2. he's one dimensional
3. he doesnt have a series of moves or fakes to get his own shot

im not going to list any names, they know who they are.

Nice cop out, as "when you called him out" means jack and ****. Called him out for what, not being a franchise guy? Nobody hyped him as a franchise guy to begin with, but I sure am glad you are here to "correct" all of us.....

News flash, those are the same things almost EVERYONE has said about Martin over the past couple years. Why do you think you are special????

But, in his defense:

He has developed since last year. He has worked on his game over the summer, including his defense. He is good about drawing fouls and getting to the line. So I think some of your criticism is a bit overboard.

 

[tyrant]

he's good about drawing fouls and getting to the line, but what happens when he sees an honest defender? kobe is the best at drawing fouls, but he doesnt rely on it. no one said martin would end up in the top 50 of all time, but people have given him more praise than he deserves. he's not that solid. looks i pulled one out the closet already

 

[Warhawk]

he's good about drawing fouls and getting to the line, but what happens when he sees an honest defender? kobe is the best at drawing fouls, but he doesnt rely on it. no one said martin would end up in the top 50 of all time, but people have given him more praise than he deserves. he's not that solid. looks i pulled one out the closet already

No, again you are making up arguements (that do not exist) to support your position solely for the sake of self-aggrandisement. Hint: it doesn't work, and you sound like a pompous fool.

I have NEVER stated that Martin is "the man" or that he is the future of the franchise. I agree that he is a good player, and a great 2nd fiddle (to a first we don't have at the moment). So when you "pulled one out of the closet already", what did you mean, since it wasn't me you were talking about? Or are you just spewing crap again? See the hint above, will ya?

 

[tyrant]

i wasnt talking about you. as far as martin lovers. but you did come out and defend him after my 1st post. so maybe you are one of the few i was speaking bout afterall

 

[Warhawk]

i dont know what ray allen has to do with any of this. ray allen is respected across the world and martin doesnt belong in the same breath as him. right now. i agree with bajaden that martin is at best 2nd option. maybe 3rd on a championship team.

in the past ive noticed alot of fans here that have put martin on the pedestal. and ive always said he is pretty good, but he isnt great. people made him out to be the next franchise savior. he's no chris webber. and from '99 to '04 this team was one of the most feared in the league. kevin martin is overrated.

Just so we are all on the same page - I am still waiting on any kind of proof on your initial false pretense I called you on. You keep changing the arguement to fit your needs instead of backing up what you said. Go to it, bud. Find anyone holding him up to this. Double dog dare you.

 

[bench_blob]

If the goal is to make a run at a Championship we need to assess our players...

1. Kevin Martin is a poor man's Ray Allen....third option on a championship team....

2. Mikki Moore and Bobby Jackson are the 10th and 11th best players...

3 Bobby Brown, Quincy Douby, Shelden Williams are what we thought they were.....

4. John Salmon and Beno Udrih are very much overrated...Both dribble too long and shoot first mentality is pathetic...

5. Francisco Garcia gets to much credit, only reason he plays is he reminds Reggie of himself....Flamboyant..

Let's also add while Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes are great prospects, they aren't helping us win games now.

JT had 15 boards the other night which looks good on the surface. PROBLEM: Half those board were on bricks from two feet b/c he couldn't finish the play.

I disagree about Cisco. He is a baller, give him a chance to round into form and have a break-out game.

Beno + Salmons have been largely ineffective all year except 1-2 games max.

Kevin Martin is a stud, the player we've seen so far is a shell of his former self. Once he regains his health, he can drop 25 to 30 points without breaking a sweat.

Brad Miller goes through the motions to create the illusion of caring.


Bobby Brown can shoot, haven't seen him create for his teammates or make a defensive play yet. A PG with no playmaking skills is not exactly what the doctor ordered.

And Donte Green needs to start showing some progress, make a hustle play and consecutive shots, instead of running around clueless and just happy to be in the NBA.

Overall, shaping up to be a 60+ loss season. I don't see Reggie getting canned during the year, but his odds of returning in '09-'10 are about 80/20 against.

 

[bench_blob]

there has been more than a handful that came to his defense when i called him out. some of the few things that ive said about martin...

1. he needs to get in the weight room and lose that pre-teen frame some may call a body
2. he's one dimensional
3. he doesnt have a series of moves or fakes to get his own shot

im not going to list any names, they know who they are.

Just because K-Mart doesn't fit into your narrow definition of the ideal NBA physique does not mean he's not the right body size and weight. He has wirey strength.

Would you tell Hall-Of-Famer ultimate clutch player Reggie Miller to hit the weight room too? He was 6'8" and 175 pounds but he managed to score 20,000 points in his illustrious career.

If K-Mat was getting pushed around or couldn't draw fouls, that would be one thing, and indication he should bulk up, but in fact the exact opposite is true. He holds his own defensively, including the post, and draws fouls as well as anyone in the league.

Your posts are continuously without merit, full of holes and innane ramblings, inviting derision and ridicule. Use your brain or put your keyboard on lockdown, bro'.

 

[Eclipse]

A couple years ago, I didn't even know if Kevin was good enough to make it in the NBA, but that turned out to be an ugly duckling into a swann story. Who knew? It could've went either way (although the wise "coachie" was convinced he was a star in the making). In comparison to Ray Allen, Allen is a proven commodity, whereas Martin I think is still establishing himself. I don't believe he's reached his potential yet, so the jury's still out.

I think all the other young guys (Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Browne, Cisco and to a lesser extent, Udriah) are in the same boat - their full potential is still unknown. So although we can make comparisions now with their current abilities to established players (like Allen), we should have a better picture after a few more years of development. Also it may be a little more difficult to really see their potential because we are such a bad team right now and new to each other (for instance, Jordan is Jordan, but he had a great sidekick, Pippin, and they worked very well together, knew each other's game, and made each other better).

 

[tyrant]

Just because K-Mart doesn't fit into your narrow definition of the ideal NBA physique does not mean he's not the right body size and weight. He has wirey strength.

Would you tell Hall-Of-Famer ultimate clutch player Reggie Miller to hit the weight room too? He was 6'8" and 175 pounds but he managed to score 20,000 points in his illustrious career.

If K-Mat was getting pushed around or couldn't draw fouls, that would be one thing, and indication he should bulk up, but in fact the exact opposite is true. He holds his own defensively, including the post, and draws fouls as well as anyone in the league.

Your posts are continuously without merit, full of holes and innane ramblings, inviting derision and ridicule. Use your brain or put your keyboard on lockdown, bro'.

its not kevins weight im picking on. there is a difference between being 175 and playing like it and being 175 and playing like youre 225. fyi, reggie is another player that martin cannot be mentioned in the same breath as. knock it off. its not about your size, its how you play the game. kevin martin plays like he's 175. it shows. hitting the floor or losing balance every time there's a pinch of contact. more often than sporadic. i criticize him because he just isnt strong enough. he cant get to the rim at will and he cant defend strong 2 guards

you should be more careful. a player like reggie miller deserves more respect. the greatest shooting threat of all time. you know who else is 175? iverson. you gona compare him to martin now?

 

[VF21]

Give it a rest, tyrant.

You don't want to see Kevin compared to Reggie Miller? Hey, no problem. BUT you might want to get in touch with Reggie (Miller) about that, since he's made the comparison himself.

 

[tyrant]

Give it a rest, tyrant.

You don't want to see Kevin compared to Reggie Miller? Hey, no problem. BUT you might want to get in touch with Reggie (Miller) about that, since he's made the comparison himself.

miller is a great guy. im sure the comparison was made out of professional courtesy. they're not on the same level. bottom line.

 

[mcsluggo]

man dude.... you is nuts, and are seeming to DELIGHT in the straw man game.

Who exactly are you arguing against here with your bold and confident assertions that Kevin Martin isn't as good as Kobe Bryant? (yes he gets to the line like Kobe but doesn't create his own shot as well....) Wow man, you are really drawing a line in the sand!


Have you ever heard the term "damnation by faint praise"? You are succeeding very well to praise with faint damnation in this thread.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

LMAO @ people saying Martin > Allen

I love Kmart but what has he accomplished to be considered better than Ray Ray

Ray Rays #'s may be down but so are KG's and Pierces -- they all excepted lesser roles than what there used to and guess what -- THERE WINNING


Kmart IMO is more equal to a Rip Hamilton with better range