More reason not to like Avery Johnson...

[Showtime]

...some of you already know my feelings on coach Johnson. Indications from accounts of his days in Dallas and from former players point to him as a hard nosed, arrogant control freak who is uncompromising. This Napoleonic attitude resulted in a group of Mavericks giving Cuban an ultimatum. He goes, or we go.

Now, though, it seems that with Kings fans asking about the availability of Avery and why he hasn't been interviewed, it seems we might have an answer:

It has also been confirmed that the Sixers connected with former Dallas Mavericks coach Avery Johnson, but that Johnson has no desire to be part of a coaching search, preferring to be the only sought-after candidate of his next employer.

This was part of an article about the sixers opening.

So, this just adds fuel to my fire. Apparently, Avery doesn't want a job if that means having an interview. Either he's offered the position, or he's not interested. Thank God the Kings aren't getting this clown.

 

[DocHolliday]

...some of you already know my feelings on coach Johnson. Indications from accounts of his days in Dallas and from former players point to him as a hard nosed, arrogant control freak who is uncompromising. This Napoleonic attitude resulted in a group of Mavericks giving Cuban an ultimatum. He goes, or we go.

Now, though, it seems that with Kings fans asking about the availability of Avery and why he hasn't been interviewed, it seems we might have an answer:



This was part of an article about the sixers opening.

So, this just adds fuel to my fire. Apparently, Avery doesn't want a job if that means having an interview. Either he's offered the position, or he's not interested. Thank God the Kings aren't getting this clown.

To coach a year (or a year and a half was it?) in the league, then to expect that your next coaching position will be handed to you without an interivew is ridiculous. Does he think, because he was HANDED a playoff caliber team that labels him as a great coach??

 

[Showtime]

To coach a year (or a year and a half was it?) in the league, then to expect that your next coaching position will be handed to you without an interivew is ridiculous. Does he think, because he was HANDED a playoff caliber team that labels him as a great coach??

Apparently he thinks he's on Phil Jackson's level. There are very few head coaches in this league that should be treated like that. IMO, those are Jackson, Sloan, Pop, and Pat Riley.

 

[hammystyle]

To coach a year (or a year and a half was it?) in the league, then to expect that your next coaching position will be handed to you without an interivew is ridiculous. Does he think, because he was HANDED a playoff caliber team that labels him as a great coach??

He coached the last 18 games of 04-05 and three full seasons. He started his career by taking over a team that was 42-22 under Don Nelson and he finished the year 16-2.

His career record is 194-70 (.735 win%). Phil Jackson has a .705 Win% and was HANDED much greater teams than Avery was. Pat Riley was .636 and he was HANDED great Lakers and Knicks teams. Greg Poppovich is .675 and he was HANDED a great Spurs team. BTW - Both all those guys are egomaniacs.

I'm not saying that Avery is Phil Jackson, Pop or Pat Riley, but his record is untouchable compared to the other candidates out there and he's smart to market himself at a level two steps above.

 

[kingsnation]

He coached the last 18 games of 04-05 and three full seasons. He started his career by taking over a team that was 42-22 under Don Nelson and he finished the year 16-2.

His career record is 194-70 (.735 win%). Phil Jackson has a .705 Win% and was HANDED much greater teams than Avery was. Pat Riley was .636 and he was HANDED great Lakers and Knicks teams. Greg Poppovich is .675 and he was HANDED a great Spurs team. BTW - Both all those guys are egomaniacs.

I'm not saying that Avery is Phil Jackson, Pop or Pat Riley, but his record is untouchable compared to the other candidates out there and he's smart to market himself at a level two steps above.

I will be impressed by his winning % when:

a. He can carry it over the amount of time the others have.
b. Win a title
c. Not get eliminated by an 8 seed
d. Not get eliminated 2 years out of 3 in the first round

Even if Avery could somehow do these things, he should never ever be mentioned in the same breath as Jackson, Sloan, Riley and Pop.

 

[NME]

I just couldn't take the interviews. His voice and the way his mouth moves remind me of a muppet.

 

[fnordius]

Greg Popovich = almost 700 wins, 4 rings.
Phil Jackson = >1000 wins, 11 rings, named one of top 10 coaches in NBA history.
Pat Riley = >1200 wins, 5 rings, named one of the top 10 coaches in NBA history.

Avery Johnson = 194 wins, made it out of the first round once.

I'm fine with taking a pass. We've had problems in the past with relations between coaches and upper management, and being so haughty as to think that an interview shouldn't even be required makes Reggie seem downright humble. We've sent way too many paychecks to ex-coaches, no reason to add yet another to the list.

 

[VF21]

I will be impressed by his winning % when:

a. He can carry it over the amount of time the others have.
b. Win a title
c. Not get eliminated by an 8 seed
d. Not get eliminated 2 years out of 3 in the first round

Even if Avery could somehow do these things, he should never ever be mentioned in the same breath as Jackson, Sloan, Riley and Pop.

Yep. This pretty much sums up how I feel about it, too. With one addition - I'd also add Rick Adelman to the list of coaches with whom Johnson's name should not be mentioned in the same breath.

 

[hammystyle]

Greg Popovich = almost 700 wins, 4 rings.
Phil Jackson = >1000 wins, 11 rings, named one of top 10 coaches in NBA history.
Pat Riley = >1200 wins, 5 rings, named one of the top 10 coaches in NBA history.

Avery Johnson = 194 wins, made it out of the first round once.

I'm fine with taking a pass. We've had problems in the past with relations between coaches and upper management, and being so haughty as to think that an interview shouldn't even be required makes Reggie seem downright humble. We've sent way too many paychecks to ex-coaches, no reason to add yet another to the list.

He made it out of the first round twice in four years. Including a trip to the finals.

His resume blows every other candidate's out of the water. You can take every other available guy out there, combine all their achievements and it wouldn't add up to as much as he did in 3.25 years. He's holding a power play, because he's clearly the top candidate, and when he gets a new job he wants more power. Good for him. That doesn't make him haughty, it makes him smart.

BTW - I don't think he would mind interivewing, he just doesn't want to be the 5th guy through the door. Flip Saunders probly interviewed, but he's a proven coach and the Wiz hired him. And its no like Flip Saunders is great shakes. I'm guessing that's what Avery wants.

 

[kingsnation]

That doesn't make him haughty, it makes him smart.

Correction - it makes him smart if it works and so far based on the number of people lining up at his door, it is not really working. Therefore, he just comes across too arrogant for his own good.

He just needs to shut up, eat a slice of humble pie and take any interview he gets.

 

[exGrizzly]

I listen to him on the radio, and I actually like his voice -- haven't seen his mouth moving in conjunction however. Whoever is the next coach has to be likeable, someone fans can believe in and listen to, because this rebuilding may take awhile.

 

[Showtime]

He made it out of the first round twice in four years. Including a trip to the finals.

His resume blows every other candidate's out of the water. You can take every other available guy out there, combine all their achievements and it wouldn't add up to as much as he did in 3.25 years. He's holding a power play, because he's clearly the top candidate, and when he gets a new job he wants more power. Good for him. That doesn't make him haughty, it makes him smart.

Makes him smart? Guess what: teams in search of quality coaches aren't offering jobs to the supposed top candidate. IMO, if he wants to work with that approach, he might be waiting a long time.

It seems to me he wants the exact same situation that he had in Dallas: namely having a good team that is already set where he can take over and try to take the team to the next level before the players all turn on him in a few years.

BTW - I don't think he would mind interivewing, he just doesn't want to be the 5th guy through the door.

"has no desire to be part of a coaching search, preferring to be the only sought-after candidate of his next employer"

If Avery was the only coach a team wanted, then there really wouldn't be a need to do an interview. If he doesn't want to be part of a coaching search, and wants to be the only candidate, it seems to me he just wants a job offered to him.

Flip Saunders probly interviewed, but he's a proven coach and the Wiz hired him. And its no like Flip Saunders is great shakes. I'm guessing that's what Avery wants.

Well, he'll be waiting for quite a while.

 

[Krunker]

I'm not saying that Avery is Phil Jackson, Pop or Pat Riley, but his record is untouchable compared to the other candidates out there and he's smart to market himself at a level two steps above.

If he is untouchable compared to the other candidates out there he would have been hired long ago

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I believe (my only source is college hoops boards) that he also has said that he won't look at college jobs and won't take anything under 6 million a season.

Maybe he should coach in the NHL where you get a trophy for the best regular season record even after you tank out to the 8 seed.

 

[NoBonus]

 

[bajaden]

He coached the last 18 games of 04-05 and three full seasons. He started his career by taking over a team that was 42-22 under Don Nelson and he finished the year 16-2.

His career record is 194-70 (.735 win%). Phil Jackson has a .705 Win% and was HANDED much greater teams than Avery was. Pat Riley was .636 and he was HANDED great Lakers and Knicks teams. Greg Poppovich is .675 and he was HANDED a great Spurs team. BTW - Both all those guys are egomaniacs.

I'm not saying that Avery is Phil Jackson, Pop or Pat Riley, but his record is untouchable compared to the other candidates out there and he's smart to market himself at a level two steps above.

Not too smart if his phone isn't ringing off the hook. You seldom see his name mentioned. There has to be a reason.

 

[bajaden]

Why is that when I look at the picture, I think of "Night of the living dead"? Did the ref survive??

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Apparently he thinks he's on Phil Jackson's level. There are very few head coaches in this league that should be treated like that. IMO, those are Jackson, Sloan, Pop, and Pat Riley.

I'd make an argument for Rudy T and Don Nelson, while we're at it. Unbelievable totals, and demand respect by name alone over tenure. That's what I think you described above.

 

[hammystyle]

Makes him smart? Guess what: teams in search of quality coaches aren't offering jobs to the supposed top candidate. IMO, if he wants to work with that approach, he might be waiting a long time.

It seems to me he wants the exact same situation that he had in Dallas: namely having a good team that is already set where he can take over and try to take the team to the next level before the players all turn on him in a few years.

If he's willing to wait then what's wrong with choosing his approach. BTW - The sitaution in Philly is pretty darn close to what Dallas was when he took over.

"has no desire to be part of a coaching search, preferring to be the only sought-after candidate of his next employer"

If Avery was the only coach a team wanted, then there really wouldn't be a need to do an interview. If he doesn't want to be part of a coaching search, and wants to be the only candidate, it seems to me he just wants a job offered to him.

Well, he'll be waiting for quite a while.

An interview is simply a meeting. No one has ever gotten hired for for a multi-million dollar job (or even a $10/hr job) without a doing an interview. When you go in as the 5th guy in part of an extensive search you sell yourself to the team. When you go in as the #1 guy they want, they sell themselves to you. Its about creating demand, leverage, and power. Its smart business. I don't know if it'll work this offseason or next, but I think before long someone will take a hard look at his REALLY impressive record and give him exactly what he wants.

 

[bajaden]

If he's willing to wait then what's wrong with choosing his approach. BTW - The sitaution in Philly is pretty darn close to what Dallas was when he took over.


An interview is simply a meeting. No one has ever gotten hired for for a multi-million dollar job (or even a $10/hr job) without a doing an interview. When you go in as the 5th guy in part of an extensive search you sell yourself to the team. When you go in as the #1 guy they want, they sell themselves to you. Its about creating demand, leverage, and power. Its smart business. I don't know if it'll work this offseason or next, but I think before long someone will take a hard look at his REALLY impressive record and give him exactly what he wants.

Out of sight, out of mind. Think about how many hollywood actors you don't see in movies anymore. You don't even notice unless someone asks, what ever happened to so and so. He stays away too long and people will be saying, Avery who?

 

[Showtime]

An interview is simply a meeting. No one has ever gotten hired for for a multi-million dollar job (or even a $10/hr job) without a doing an interview. When you go in as the 5th guy in part of an extensive search you sell yourself to the team. When you go in as the #1 guy they want, they sell themselves to you. Its about creating demand, leverage, and power. Its smart business. I don't know if it'll work this offseason or next, but I think before long someone will take a hard look at his REALLY impressive record and give him exactly what he wants.

Nothing about his record is really impressive. It's not really impressive to have a 67 win team get bounced in one of the biggest first round upsets ever. It's not really impressive to tank a finals team so quickly, and then have half the team turn on you. How is that really impressive?

And again, he wants 6+ million on a team that is locked in on him, and if he honestly thinks this approach is going to work, he has another thing coming, especially with the economic changes teams are going through right now.

 

[hammystyle]

Nothing about his record is really impressive. It's not really impressive to have a 67 win team get bounced in one of the biggest first round upsets ever. It's not really impressive to tank a finals team so quickly, and then have half the team turn on you. How is that really impressive?

And again, he wants 6+ million on a team that is locked in on him, and if he honestly thinks this approach is going to work, he has another thing coming, especially with the economic changes teams are going through right now.

Having the highest win percentage among active coaches (probly all time) and taking a soft, going nowhere team past the Spurs to the Finals isn't impressive at all? Really? Then coaching them to 67 wins the next year? That Dallas team was so freakin SOFT...they couldn't beat the Kings and they couldn't beat the Spurs. They were not considered a real contender until he changed the mindset.

If you don't like him based off personality, that's fine and probly valid. But his record is outstanding. Who's the second best candidate out there right now? Eddie Jordan? Westphal? Gimme a break.

 

[VF21]

I'm not impressed by Avery Johnson for the simple reason despite all his accomplishments he managed to alienate a fan base, a team and an enthusiastic owner. That takes some doing...

It's not just about a record, especially when that record, despite being impressive, gets you nothing in the old trophy case.

We aren't going to be paying big $$$ for a new coach. Avery Johnson is going to want big $$$. That is, if he changes his Latrell Sprewell type attitude. He doesn't want to interview? He doesn't want to be part of a coaching search process? Cool. I hope he saved a lot of his salary because he simply doesn't have the CV to merit an attitude like that...

 

[hammystyle]

I'm not impressed by Avery Johnson for the simple reason despite all his accomplishments he managed to alienate a fan base, a team and an enthusiastic owner. That takes some doing...

It's not just about a record, especially when that record, despite being impressive, gets you nothing in the old trophy case.

We aren't going to be paying big $$$ for a new coach. Avery Johnson is going to want big $$$. That is, if he changes his Latrell Sprewell type attitude. He doesn't want to interview? He doesn't want to be part of a coaching search process? Cool. I hope he saved a lot of his salary because he simply doesn't have the CV to merit an attitude like that...

Alienating a fan base is pretty easy for a coach. Most coaches do. He's also not the first coach to lose his team. Losing Cuban gives some merit to the idea it was mostly his doing.

I'm just shocked that people are so against a guy who did so well when it looks like our main candidates are Eddie Jordan and Paul Westphal.

 

[PurpleHaze]

The Kings are in the process of interviewing candidates and so far three have been announced with probably several more available to schedule when playoffs are done. As stated earlier, there's "6 MILLION" reasons to ignore little tweety bird yapper, besides all his baggage.

 

[Showtime]

I'm just shocked that people are so against a guy who did so well when it looks like our main candidates are Eddie Jordan and Paul Westphal.

That's because you are only looking at the positive, and not the entire picture. You are quick to point out his win % and finals, but also quick to dismiss the record of the team prior to him taking over, quick to dismiss the GS series, quick to dismiss half the team turning on him, and quick to dismiss how relatively short amount of time that it took for him to go from being viewed as the franchise savior to the franchise killer.

 

[Telemachus]

Having the highest win percentage among active coaches (probly all time) and taking a soft, going nowhere team past the Spurs to the Finals isn't impressive at all? Really? Then coaching them to 67 wins the next year? That Dallas team was so freakin SOFT...they couldn't beat the Kings and they couldn't beat the Spurs. They were not considered a real contender until he changed the mindset.

To have the highest win percentage among active coaches, don't you have to be actively coaching? Just curious.

And don't even bring up his win percentage all time. There is a reason ALL record books have minimum # of games for all time stats.

What Avery did was to take a very talented team with a star entering his prime and help give them a little toughness. Unfortuneately for him, he also managed to alienate almost all of Dallas in the process. That is NOT easy to do when your team is still winning (even if underacheiving in the playoffs).

The other thing to consider is that the NBA is a pretty close knit group. There is no doubt that the problems the players in Dallas had with Avery is well known to the other players around the league. Avery came in a coach demaning a lot of respect from players because of his accomplishments as a player. Once you lose that kind of respect, it is very difficult to get it back.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Having the highest win percentage among active coaches (probly all time) and taking a soft, going nowhere team past the Spurs to the Finals isn't impressive at all? Really? Then coaching them to 67 wins the next year? That Dallas team was so freakin SOFT...they couldn't beat the Kings and they couldn't beat the Spurs. They were not considered a real contender until he changed the mindset.

I'm not nearly as convinced you are about how meaningful Johnson's career winning percentage is. He inherited a team that had won 50+ games 4 straight years and was in the playoffs each time. Under Avery they won 5 playoff series in four years while under Nelson they had won 7 playoff series in the preceding four years.

Johnson never coached a team that didn't have the following players: Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Erick Dampier. His teams also had either Devin Harris or Jason Kidd. That's 3/4 of your rotation right there composed of very solid to all-star players. Sure, he averaged 60 wins a season (factoring in his 16-2 partial season) but Kenny Natt could have led those teams to maybe 55 wins per season. Is Avery a better than average coach? Probably. But touting his winning percentage without pointing out that he was given a long-tenured, playoff-quality team every year he coached is ignoring the big picture.

 

[hammystyle]

That's because you are only looking at the positive, and not the entire picture. You are quick to point out his win % and finals, but also quick to dismiss the record of the team prior to him taking over, quick to dismiss the GS series, quick to dismiss half the team turning on him, and quick to dismiss how relatively short amount of time that it took for him to go from being viewed as the franchise savior to the franchise killer.

Why would I need to bring those points up when everyone else has done it a million times in this thread? Its overboard and insane the criticism he's getting here. I'm not even advocating we get him, just defending him as a good candidate among a sea of mediocrity. And he should be able to conduct his future search as he pleases. Its my opinion, his record will look very appealing to an owner and he'll be able to get the power he wants.

 

[VF21]

Alienating a fan base is pretty easy for a coach. Most coaches do. He's also not the first coach to lose his team. Losing Cuban gives some merit to the idea it was mostly his doing.

Actually alienating a fan base when your team is in the elite status is pretty difficult. Your comment that most coaches do alienate fan bases is interesting but can you back it up with examples, and I don't mean Eric Musselman type examples.

And you continue to ignore the fact that he alienated EVERYBODY. He had no defenders in Dallas and I cannot recall even one article showing the least bit of remorse about him being fired. That, too, is unusual.

I'm just shocked that people are so against a guy who did so well when it looks like our main candidates are Eddie Jordan and Paul Westphal.

Again, this is Avery Johnson we're talking about... If you check the Bee, you'll notice that even Bill Bradley, the sports editor, isn't surprised that the Kings aren't seriously considering him.

But you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Just don't be so shocked that a vast majority of Kings fans don't agree with it.