Monk as Starter
- Thread starter Caccia
- Start date
sactowndog
All-Star
have they? Or have they proven they can win with a Monk - Ellis backcourt which granted is a subset of winning without Fox but might not extend to the general case.
Ellis has our best Net Rating, our best Defensive rating, and an 8-3 record as a starter. There are legitimate reasons to believe he significantly impacts winning when paired with our other 4 starters. It is not clear replacing Ellis with yet another offensive oriented guard and Ellis getting less than 20 minutes again will result in winning.
Padrino
All-Star
This remains, like, the one and only thing you and I both agree on. I was cool with a Fox/Ellis starting backcourt. I'm cool with a Monk/Ellis starting backcourt. Ellis is a hugely impactful player defensively, and his three-point accuracy is such a useful bonus. A Monk/LaVine starting backcourt, on the other hand, strikes me as more volatile and considerably less-equipped to succeed come playoff time due to the lack of defense, especially since the Kings have no rim protector to fall back on if Monk/LaVine are getting blown by on the regular. As long as they're scoring like maniacs, the Kings can probably win a fair amount of games with a Monk/LaVine starting backcourt. But I don't love their long-term potential defensively without a rim protector to cover for their defensive lapses.
chief bromden
Starter
Likewise. I appreciate everything Monk brings to the team and the court. Malik has been around the league a bit and must know the grass isn't always greener.
De'Aaron might Fox around and find out.
sactowndog
All-Star
Happy Birthday!
sactowndog
All-Star
the only thing huh?
so you don’t think the Kings need to get longer and get some more help at forward?
Happy birthday!
Im hoping that we actually move DDR for additional picks and players to bring more balace. I think bringing back a Bobby Portis or Naz Reid type or Cam Johnson would be helpful for balance and with Zach Levine in the lineup would make for a longer front court and perimeter with better defense. Allows Keegan to move to the 3 where i believe he more naturally fits and would open up the court well for us given the percentages all these guys shoot. I dont think the offense output would suffer all that much either given that the flow would likely be better. Would allow you to keep Lyles
Starters
Monk
Levin
Murray
Portis/Reid/Johnson
Sabonis
With primary reserves
Carter
Ellis
Mcbuckets
Lyles
Len
reptilexcq2
Bench
I would love the Kings to get Cam Johnson and remove DeRozen but man DeRozen has been playing so well in that position. It's not his fault, it's just the team overall defense suffer because other positions just ain't good playing defense. Beside Keegan, every position are not that great. Cam Johnson isn't a great defender (not a bad defender either) but i think his length help and him helping out rebounding is sorely needed. Plus he's lethal shooter. Now, if someone argue that if we lose DeRozen, we got no one to post up one on one..i beg to differ, i think Lavine can post up one on one and take advantage of the other team's weakness.
I wonder if the Kings could send DDR back to Toronto who could move Bruce Brown to New Jersey, and the Kings and Raptors give the Nets draft compensation with Cam Johnson heading to the Kings.
Padrino
All-Star
I certainly don't see it as the existential crisis you do. Quite a lot of teams across the NBA aren't optimized for balance, including a number of playoff teams and genuine contenders. It's really f***ing hard to stack each position with quality talent such that their athleticism, heights, lengths, and skillsets are all in harmony with each other. And the current CBA is only going to continue to squeeze teams so that they struggle to build a roster that's well-balanced.
I'm usually most concerned with talent and production on both sides of the ball. Offensive and defensive balance is my greatest consideration. Length can help with that, but it's not the only thing that matters. I'm not convinced it's the most important thing, either. I look at pressure points and where a defense is likely to break. For example, you can survive and even thrive with an all-offense backcourt like Monk/LaVine if you've got Wembanyama on the backline to cover for their defensive mistakes. But the Kings don't have an all-world rim protector like that. They don't have a Jaren Jackson, either, or even a big who functions as a modest deterrent to the league's rim attackers. Sabonis is so essential to this team's offense, though, that you're not likely to remove him from the equation. So you need to make sure there's better defensive balance in your backcourt rotation. I don't like that Ellis won't be starting with the acquisition of Zach LaVine, but Keon should still be seeing 25+ minutes of court time, at the very least.
And to be clear, I do think it would be very helpful if the Kings bolstered their frontcourt (and their bench, in general), but that's no revelation to offer on a forum like this. That's saying nothing that isn't already self-evident. I just don't think the amorphous notion of "length" is some kind of sink or swim proposition for this team. Plenty of NBA franchises have found great success in every era despite their roster deficiencies. The Kings just need to make sure they manage theirs on the other side of the trade for LaVine. That probably means moving on from DeRozan this off-season.
Are we really gonna do the guy dirty like that?
I'm good with DDR staying on the Kings. But IF we wanted to balance the roster, DeRozan is about the only piece that we can send out. Unless it can be done with the trade exception and a bit of draft capital.
I think this is best done in the offseason when we can have a talk with him and say "damn, Fox really pulled a fast one on us, I know this isn't what you signed up for, how you feeling?" at which time we could talk about moving him to a team with a short term window (like Dallas).
Otherwise we pretty much just take the first big name FA signing we've had since maybe the Brad Miller S&T and shotgunned him in the face. That's not going to help us with future players even if we were so kind to he who shall not be named.
Especially coming off him going and winning the game in Minny for us, essentially. I think he's more than likely a big voice in that locker room too, helping keep things together. Would feel unbelievably crapty to just go ship him out tomorrow
Not to mention he seems super excited about LaVine re-joining him and for someone who "was having second thoughts" was one of the vibiest guys out there last night.
Section 101
All-Star
As I said in his FA thread, there was a big risk he would have gotten a lot less than his Kings deal if the Kings went another direction in free agency. He could have been looking a MLE or lower if the limited teams with cap space didnt sign him,
Caccia
Starter
He was literally skipping after hitting that last-minute layup.
I can't imagine he didn't have a good offer from someone on the table?
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I mean, in addition to everything else, the song he’s mentioned in won pretty much every single Grammy imaginable.
Its not that id like to see him gone. Honestly I don't, but with the 2.5 FRP we got for Fox the fact both Sabonis and Levine are locked for an additional 2 and 3 seasons respectively and Levines contract likely will be a bear to move, and precisely because DDR can help a contender win a chip, while helping is get younger, bigger and get additional draft capital (to get younger and better while keep our salary costs down, especially when keegan is gonna need to be resigned after next season) he is precisely the piece that should be moved. Honestly, moving from the biggest free agent signing since brad miller really doesnt mean much for the Kings. We dont typically get free agents and him liking it in SAC doesnt really move the needle for others (see John Collins statement regarding a possible trade). Gotta look towards being competitive while building on the fly. Would be easier if the FO was able to get spurs own 2025 pick instead of the crappy protected hornets pick, but still.
If not now, at least in the off season, we should at least explore moving DDR to a team that is looking to win, maybe MIN, OKC, Memphis,Dallas and has picks and young promising players available.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Teams throw their money around like mad. I could be wrong, but I feel Malik would have been a 100million dollar man if he let himself go to Free Agency.
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
One thing I like about Monk at point is how much quicker we initiate the offense. With Fox, moreso in later seasons, he'd have tendency to jog up the court and begin isoing on one side to try and work his way into the key to get off one of those little hesitation fade-aways. If it didn't work out he'd kick of the ball out to someone and just go camp at the 3 point line, but it took 8 or 9 seconds off the shot clock every time. With Monk he's either passing the ball, pulling up from 3, or attacking the basket by the time he's at the 3 point line.
Caccia
Starter
Coach Christie on Malik Monk after the last game:
“He’s had so much growth since I’ve met him, in this period in his life and in his basketball life, watching him grow as a young man. I’m super, super proud of him. And then, the opportunity presents itself for him to run a ball club. Like I told him, ‘I’m gonna live with some of your mistakes. But learning how to ebb and flow inside of a game and get your teammates involved, but still be aggressive: it’s a fine line.’ And I thought that he did a great job at it tonight. If he continues to learn in that capacity, his game will continue to grow, which says a lot because he has so much game. The ability to manipulate the game as far as drawing double teams. They’re already blitzing him, getting off the ball with on time, on target passes. He knocks down shots. He gets to the basket. He knocks down free throws. He knocks down clutch free throws. He’s just a hell of a player.”
https://www.talkbasket.net/192819-d...ty-presents-itself-for-him-to-run-a-ball-club
“He’s had so much growth since I’ve met him, in this period in his life and in his basketball life, watching him grow as a young man. I’m super, super proud of him. And then, the opportunity presents itself for him to run a ball club. Like I told him, ‘I’m gonna live with some of your mistakes. But learning how to ebb and flow inside of a game and get your teammates involved, but still be aggressive: it’s a fine line.’ And I thought that he did a great job at it tonight. If he continues to learn in that capacity, his game will continue to grow, which says a lot because he has so much game. The ability to manipulate the game as far as drawing double teams. They’re already blitzing him, getting off the ball with on time, on target passes. He knocks down shots. He gets to the basket. He knocks down free throws. He knocks down clutch free throws. He’s just a hell of a player.”
https://www.talkbasket.net/192819-d...ty-presents-itself-for-him-to-run-a-ball-club
Caccia
Starter
Malik Monk on his new role, in his own words, and those of Coach Doug Christie:
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nb...nk-leadership-role-deaaron-fox-trade/1827680/
"Monk is averaging 20.6 points on 44.6-percent shooting, with 4.1 rebounds, 7.1 assists and 1.3 steals in 35.3 minutes through 21 games (21 starts) since Christie’s takeover."
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nb...nk-leadership-role-deaaron-fox-trade/1827680/
"Monk is averaging 20.6 points on 44.6-percent shooting, with 4.1 rebounds, 7.1 assists and 1.3 steals in 35.3 minutes through 21 games (21 starts) since Christie’s takeover."
