Midseason Grades - follow up + Pop Quiz

R2D2

R2D2

Bench
Let's face it: the main reason we are here for the last few years is not the basketball team(which sucked…) but the growing number of pretty ladies themes (which is the result of that level of performance). After staring at them ladies for too long I also decided to devote some time to analyze the grades a bit. I wonder why they don't have Bricklayer's gradings at hoops databases just yet? It did make the work somewhat more challenging... Anyways, after digging through the data here are the results and a small quiz:​

Kings 2010/11 grades analysis and the mid-term assessment given by Bricklayer
Omri Casspi (42 grades): C/C+ (C-)
DeMarcus Cousins (43 grades): C+/B- (B-)
Samuel Dalembert (37 grades): B/B- (C+)
Tyreke Evans (39 grades): C+/B- (D+)
Francisco Garcia (35 grades): C/C+ (C+)
Donte Greene (26 grades): C+ (D)
Luther Head (17 grades): C (D+)
Darnell Jackson (15 grades): C (B-)
Eugene Jeter (29 grades): C/C+ (B-)
Carl Landry (45 grades): C/C+ (C-)
Jermaine Taylor (4 grades): C (INC)
Jason Thompson (38 grades): C+ (C-)
Beno Udrih (44 grades): C+ (B+)
(*) A combination of two grades indicates that the average grade was just in between.​

I think that Sammy D and Havoc T would like to have a word with Brick on their mid-term assessments…:)​



And now for all you peeps: The Questionnaire:
  1. Who is the most stable player on the Kings roster thus far (grades-wise, at least 20 grades)?
  2. Who is the most unstable player on the Kings roster thus far (grades-wise, at least 20 grades)?
  3. How many players have recorded every type of grade at least once?
  4. How many players have been graded for each and every game (45 in total)
  5. Who is the player to be awarded with the grade A+ most times?
  6. Who is the player to be awarded with the grade F most times?
  7. Who is the player to be awarded with the grade A (including +/-) most times?
  8. What is the average grade on a game won?
  9. What is the average grade on a game lost?
  10. What was the average grade during 2010 games (only 2010/11 season)?
  11. What is the average grade since 1/1/11?
  12. What does the OP have that you don't?
Answers to follow...​



 
Without further ado, the answers:

1. Most stable player (grade-wise, at least 20 grades) is Donte Greene, with a st. dev figure of 13.0.
Next three are Samuel Dalembert (13.6), Jason Thompson (14.0) and Omri Casspi (16.4)
2. Most unstable player (grade-wise, at least 20 grades) is Beno Udrih, with a st. dev figure of 20.6.
Next three are DeMarcus Cousins (20.2), Francisco Garcia (17.8) and Carl Landry (17.6)
3. Only player to be awarded with every grade at least once: Beno Udrih
4. Only player to get a grade on every game graded (45 in total): Carl Landry
(*) Note that the Kings have played 46 games but one was not "normally" graded, @ Clippers, 11/25/2010
5. Record number of A+: DeMarcus Cousins (2 occasions)
6. Record number of F: Francisco Garcia & Beno Udrih (3 occasions). (Dis)Honorable Mentions: Carl Landry (2 occasions)
7. Record number of A's (all types): Tyreke Evans (8 occasions). Honorable Mentions: DeMarcus Cousins (7 occasions), Samuel Dalembert and Beno Udrih (6 occasions)
8. Average grade while winning: B-
9. Average grade while losing: C/C+
10. Average grade during Oct-Dec 2010 (28 games, 6-22 record): C+
11. Average grade since January (17 games, 6-11 record): C+. Exactly the same. The fact that the team plays better apparently does not affect Bricklayer's level of criticism…:p
12. Too much spare time…:o
 
This is definitely going to be an interesting thread/discussion. Thanks for putting in the leg-work R2!
 
not to mention Beno. ;)


My general explanation for any discrepancy would be that the game to game theads are alays responsive to trends, injuries, roles etc. as they develop, where the midseason grades were intentionally trying to go back and reference preseason expecations vs. how it actually played out. Whether you accept that explanation or not is up to you. ;)
 
Insomniacal Fan said:
(Out of curiosity, what'd you use for data collection?)
Click to expand...
See the answer to #12. ;)

I do have to say that the consistency of the C+ average is impressive. I don't know if Bricklayer pays attention to that and tries to adjust accordingly, or if he's just good at being "fair" and adjusting expectations on the fly, but regardless it definitely makes the grades more useful and interesting.
 
uolj said:
See the answer to #12. ;)

I do have to say that the consistency of the C+ average is impressive. I don't know if Bricklayer pays attention to that and tries to adjust accordingly, or if he's just good at being "fair" and adjusting expectations on the fly, but regardless it definitely makes the grades more useful and interesting.
Click to expand...

Its fairly natural -- I know that my grading scale is, like most of higher education's, skewed slightly upward. I consider the C+/B- line to be about the average game. Average/tad above is B-, average/tad below is C+ (as opposed to being a true C scale). No conscious adjustments, except trying to keep like/dislike out of it. And of course a floating grading scale according to how a guy is doing in the season, adjustments to expectations, expectations in role etc. All of which is not nearly as complex as it sounds, again fairly natural and by feel. And of course mostly individulized grading scales judging people by what they themselves can do rather than against some overarching norm.
 
Bricklayer said:
Its fairly natural -- I know that my grading scale is, like most of higher education's, skewed slightly upward. I consider the C+/B- line to be about the average game. Average/tad above is B-, average/tad below is C+ (as opposed to being a true C scale). No conscious adjustments, except trying to keep like/dislike out of it. And of course a floating grading scale according to how a guy is doing in the season, adjustments to expectations, expectations in role etc. All of which is not nearly as complex as it sounds, again fairly natural and by feel. And of course mostly individulized grading scales judging people by what they themselves can do rather than against some overarching norm.
Click to expand...
That makes sense, although it's not nearly as easy as you make it sound. People all have various biases that could easily creep in and only show themselves over time, especially if you're not monitoring it or making conscious adjustments. It's just that some are naturally better able to avoid that or at least make it not a significant factor.

If I had to pick I'd guess that you are (very slightly) biased in favor of the stars and against the scrubs, at least if you assume that every player should average a C+/B-. Maybe also a tiny bias towards defenders/rebounders. R2D2, how much free time do you have? Let's see this analysis over the last 6 years! :p
 
uolj said:
That makes sense, although it's not nearly as easy as you make it sound. People all have various biases that could easily creep in and only show themselves over time, especially if you're not monitoring it or making conscious adjustments. It's just that some are naturally better able to avoid that or at least make it not a significant factor.

If I had to pick I'd guess that you are (very slightly) biased in favor of the stars and against the scrubs, at least if you assume that every player should average a C+/B-. Maybe also a tiny bias towards defenders/rebounders. R2D2, how much free time do you have? Let's see this analysis over the last 6 years! :p
Click to expand...
I believe Brick's grades are based on how you expect that player to play overall. Stars have to meet a much tougher standard than the scrubs do. So Tyreke's C is still a better performance than a C for a scrub. Altho, I shouldn't put words into Brick's mouth, but I think that's the gist of his explanations. Anyway, that's how I've read the grades.
 
kennadog said:
I believe Brick's grades are based on how you expect that player to play overall. Stars have to meet a much tougher standard than the scrubs do. So Tyreke's C is still a better performance than a C for a scrub. Altho, I shouldn't put words into Brick's mouth, but I think that's the gist of his explanations. Anyway, that's how I've read the grades.
Click to expand...
No, I understand that. But if each grade is based on individual expectations, then each player should ideally average a C+/B- throughout the year, regardless of whether he is a star or scrub. (Based on R2D2's research, it looks like straight C+ is the actual average.) These grades have virtually no detectable bias (which I think is great) but I expect most individuals not consciously monitoring it would have some sort of bias be evident, and I'm just having some fun trying to figure out what one might be.

Given that the stars (Evans/Cousins) have the highest average grades and the scrubs (Taylor/Head/Jackson) have the lowest average grades, I thought that might be one plausible possibility. One explanation could be that it's difficult to give a great player a low grade when they played better than everybody else, even if relative to their usual play it was sub-par. Also, just based on what I know about Bricklayer, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tiny subconscious thing going on there as well. But don't take it as a criticism, it's more of an amusing puzzle.
 
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Regardless of how the grades add up, there's no way Donte is our most stable player... and there's no way Beno is our most unstable...
 
OP conclusion # 1: The Defensive Stopper

Let me start with the bottom line: it is my belief that the Kings should try as hard as possible to resign Sammy D, and I also believe that his stock is undervalued by some fans.
It’s been years since the Kings had a presence in the paint. And Sammy D is an experienced defensive anchor we did not have for about a decade. He is very effective in what he does: rebound and block shots. He is also a defensive game changer/anchor, and that’s a rare commodity. These kind of players rarely come from the draft, too… He is very reliable (consistent) because anyone who had played BB knows there is no such thing as a bad day on D. When you sign Sammy you know exactly what you will and will not get. And if you have Reke and DMC (third option coming up…see below) you get from Sammy an extremely important and much needed piece.
I believe that if we can sign him for 3 years for about 30-33 Mil (add 4th year as a team’s option) it’s a bargain. I think that believing he will sign for less is quite optimistic. For his kind of stock there are buyers in the NBA market, and you might run into Kahn believing he is the next Vlade or something…
 
OP conclusion # 2: The SF Inconsistency

I have not done the research but I have a feeling that the most associated word with our young SFs is “inconsistent”. I believe it is wrong. The data shows they are both quite consistent, but not very (in lack of better words) good. Now both DG and OC are young. They have a lot to develop. But I think that as the team improves we need someone who is ready to contribute sooner rather than later. We also need a veteran player to guide our young guns on the floor.
The answer? We might get a "two in one" deal with Danny Granger. I would love seeing Granger coming to town. I would trade our #1 pick and one of the SFs for him in a heartbeat. I am not sure Bird will take it. I wonder if we have anything else to throw in (Landry?), but if we can get him I think the next couple of seasons (no lockdown, please) might be really exciting for us…and the future even brighter.
 
kingsboi said:
So what's the point of this thread exactly?
Click to expand...

Fair question. I hope my two conclusions have satisfied your curiosity.

BTW: Let me ask you one question as well: how much value do you think your comment added to the discussion?
Personally, when I see a thread that has no point (in my view) I move on without adding "smart***" replies.
But that's just me...
 
Sluggah said:
Strange...I can totally see the latter being true.
Click to expand...

Really? If you've been watching the whole season, I don't know how you couldn't say Beno has been our most consistant on the whole team... outside of the past couple games maybe, he's one of the few we could count on. In fact he's having his best season in the league.

As for the latter.. I think of unstable as not consistant or reliable... So there are a few players come to mind as our most "unstable"... (actually the whole rest of the team)... But lets start with Donte.
 
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D13 said:
Really? If you've been watching the whole season, I don't know how you couldn't say Beno has been our most consistant on the whole team... outside of the past couple games maybe, he's one of the few we could count on. In fact he's having his best season in the league.

As for the latter.. I think of unstable as not consistant or reliable... So there are a few players come to mind as our most "unstable"... (actually the whole rest of the team)... But lets start with Donte.
Click to expand...

Had Beno though? Jerry Reynolds aside, has he? I think that a) offensively oriented players are inherently more inconsistent than defenively oriented players -- another one of the reasons so many top teams are buiilt on defense, it rarely goes "cold"; and b) support players, the inbetween guys betwen stars and roelplayers are probably more inconsistent then either of those other groups. Their role changes game to game according to need and how they are going. The stars always get their shots. The roleplayers always stay in the same role. The guys between...you never know. Without getting into the full statlines or fully revisting every game this season, these are Beno's game by game point totals this season, just as an example:

17
17
6
16
17
5
18
12
6
3
8
5
24
4
16
2
23
12
10
20
19
6
34
17
14
24
5
0
3
17
25
26
16
29
9
17
20
11
14
6
6
14
12

When a guy scores over 20 9 times, and under 10 15 times -- 24 games at the edges out of 46 games this year, there is going to be some variation.
 
I think a few things can be said about Beno's consistency.

1. Overall, he's shot the ball from inside the 3 point line (FTs included) consistently well. There have been games where he's cold (like against Boston) but over the whole season he's shooting pretty good, and from memory he's missed a lot less clutch free throws than other guys %wise.

2. He's consistently played well as the focal point of our offense.

What Beno has failed to do on several occasions is come up big as a role player on the offensive end. That may sound contradictory, but it's those games where we just needed Beno to be at his normal FG% in order to win the game. In the situations where Tyreke was out and we ran a lot of plays for Beno to just pull up and shoot and stuff he's delivered fairly consistently. But in games where he's playing more off the ball and basically needs to hit open shots created by Tyreke or DMC he's come up short a number of times.

This is just my opinion of course, and based loosely on my memory of games played. Feel free to correct me or share your opinion
 
R2D2 said:
Fair question. I hope my two conclusions have satisfied your curiosity.

BTW: Let me ask you one question as well: how much value do you think your comment added to the discussion?
Personally, when I see a thread that has no point (in my view) I move on without adding "smart***" replies.
But that's just me...
Click to expand...

Well it wasn't a "smart ***" reply because I really just wanted to know what the point of it was, that's all. Don't need to get all chipy about it.
 
R2D2 said:
Let me start with the bottom line: it is my belief that the Kings should try as hard as possible to resign Sammy D, and I also believe that his stock is undervalued by some fans.
It’s been years since the Kings had a presence in the paint. And Sammy D is an experienced defensive anchor we did not have for about a decade. He is very effective in what he does: rebound and block shots. He is also a defensive game changer/anchor, and that’s a rare commodity. These kind of players rarely come from the draft, too… He is very reliable (consistent) because anyone who had played BB knows there is no such thing as a bad day on D. When you sign Sammy you know exactly what you will and will not get. And if you have Reke and DMC (third option coming up…see below) you get from Sammy an extremely important and much needed piece.
I believe that if we can sign him for 3 years for about 30-33 Mil (add 4th year as a team’s option) it’s a bargain. I think that believing he will sign for less is quite optimistic. For his kind of stock there are buyers in the NBA market, and you might run into Kahn believing he is the next Vlade or something…
Click to expand...

Nice post, but I have to make one correction. Kahn's already got his Vlade, but to complete his puzzle, he needs his own Olajuwon. Lord knows we view him as such during 4th quarters. :confused:
 
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