Agree with everything.
I think Vlade unintentionally showed his hand though. We have be rumored to love Bagley, Porter, and looking at Bamba meanwhile we’re allegedly telling teams we won’t draft Doncic. Fishy to say the least
Michael Porter Jr
- Thread starter funkykingston
- Start date
Agree with everything.
I think Vlade unintentionally showed his hand though. We have be rumored to love Bagley, Porter, and looking at Bamba meanwhile we’re allegedly telling teams we won’t draft Doncic. Fishy to say the least
Livinthedream
All-Star
Well if we are hearing rumors about who we will or won't draft, then hopefully the leaks are intentional. To what end, who knows.
If there is a method to that madness, it could be this. If Vlade really loves Doncic, but thinks the Suns may take him, then you try to devalue Doncic. Influence the Suns perception of him and hopefully they lean more towards Ayton. Increase your chances of Luka falling to Kings.
whozit
Starter
And in the meantime you are doing your due diligence in getting all of the information for plan B. Or not.
I honestly don't think this information is from the Kings. And they have no reason to refute it, let the other teams quess what your up to.
I do not buy into the theory that the Suns are going to be swayed one way or the other by what is or isn't said outside of their own sphere. If they're leaning more towards Ayton, it's not because they're afraid of Doncic. They're doing so because they firmly believe Ayton will be the better value to their team.
burekijogurt
Starter
or....Vlade really wants Ayton, plays a role of Vlade the novice GM who is clumsily trying to devalue Doncic while he secretly wants him. The reverse psychology effect works and Suns select Doncic. Vlade takes Ayton, absorbs some bad contracts from Cleveland and ships WCS to them for that 8th pick and drafts Miles Bridges. We then start Ayton, Giles, Bridges, Bogdan (or Buddy), Fox. Our 3 rooks make the rookie first team but Doncic wins rookie of the year. thats ok with us cause we are rolling...
Are you sure he isn't confident or are you just assuming that because he is a fairly quiet guy? I thought he looked pretty dang confident when he jacked up that game winning 3 against New York near the end of the year. When he was a rookie, he looked solid but unspectacular in the G League. We pulled him up, gave him minutes and for a while this dude was splashing in turnaround fade away jumpers like he was MJ or Kobe. I loved the fact that he was able to knock the majority of them in but I think a lot of us knew he may have been on a bit of a hot streak.
This year, those moves didn't work out so well for him but he made other positive changes. He started taking more three point shots and hit them at a good rate. His free throw percentage went up to 80%. He blocked almost twice as many shots per/36. He also improved his defense by quite a bit. The main problem was his 2pt% dropped from 54% to 46%. He could also be a much different player with more weight on as well.
I'm the type who will trade anyone if it means the team improves so there's no attachment here. You can figure out Skal's general worth by putting yourself in the GM's shoes. If you were a GM of any team, who would you give up for Skal? I'm guessing it's not going to be much. The Bruno Cabocolo type players of the world. That's why I'm like in that case, just keep the dude and see if the stars align for him. He doesn't cost much, he isn't worth much and he's not taking a roster spot from anyone. That's why I say his value lies in his development here and not in a trade for some scrub or pointless veteran that's going to take up minutes and cap space.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I'm in agreement as well. Like I said if his contract happens to make a good trade work, then so be it. I've got nothing against the guy, but we certainly can't afford to not improve the team because of him.
roasthawg
Starter
C'mon man, you really think an NBA team would be influenced by rumors of whether or not another team likes a player? If vlade's target is Doncic and he's intentionally leaking rumors that he doesn't like him (two very big ifs mind you), the only reason would be to dissuade the Hawks or another team from trading with the Suns to snag Luka first.
Alternatively if he really doesn't like him he could be leaking those rumors to make the organization seem leaky... Could benefit in future drafts as info coming out of the Kings camp might be taken more seriously. Or the rumors could be real leaks. Or it could be complete bs made up by someone without vlade's blessing. Any number of possibilities here but trying to get the Suns to pass on a guy they're already going to pass on is clearly not one of them imo.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Do you not see the contradiction in your comment?
But, yes, teams can be influenced by rumors and smokescreens. It's all a game. Maybe not as easy to do to the team with the number 1 pick. Either way, it's all speculation and in good fun.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
My guess is we’re not big on Ayton, and would work a trade down should Phoenix take Luka. The problem is Memphis would be the ideal trade partner, but they don’t own their 2019 pick out right. Dallas would be fine, but our guy (seems like MPJ given the Jones/Ham hypetrain) may not last until 5. Also, that trade would probably include Barnes, which is basically a salary dump for Dallas. We could offset that a bit by including Shump and/ or ZBo in the deal.
Fox/Mason
Bogi/Buddy
Barnes/JJ
MPJ/Giles
WCS/Koufos
That’s a full-sized team with shooting everywhere. I, personally, would still prefer the force multiplier that is Luka, but he’s not an option in this scenario.
2nd Edit: Honestly, if Fox makes the expected leap and MPJ can hit the NBA 3pter and be switchable, then that roster can make a run at the 8 seed. They’d give Denver and Minnesota fits in head-to-head marchups.
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I don’t get how we wouldn’t take Ayton he could be a 20-10 guy with decent defense. His pick and roll with fox/Bogdan will be lethal
Sactown ExPat
Starter
Given what we know of Vlade, Peja, and Brandon Williams and the characteristics they look for....I don’t think they have Ayton on a separate tier from MPJ/Bagley/JJJ and maybe Bamba. This is the MPJ thread, so I’ll leave it at that.
A healthy MPJ answers a lot of questions if the Kings can also snag a starting SF and a (top 1 protected?) 2019 pick.
rosa u podne
Bench
I don't think I would pick a recently injured player, who I only wachted play against high school competition, when I can select other great prospects tested against higher level competition.
sactowndog
All-Star
Skal to me is worth hanging onto.
1) you can develop strength once your body matures and I think Skal is late developing. He will be able to get stronger.
2) Skal can shoot. 35% from 3 and 80% from the line are respectable numbers.
I completely agree. Skal is a low cost (by NBA standards) project who already has better numbers than project bigs like Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, or Thon Maker who were all taken ahead of him in the same draft.
I DO want to see a big jump in his game this next season but my only point is that it wasn't unreasonable to look at trading him if the coaching staff and front office didn't believe in his potential moving forward.
KingsSelecao
Bench
Just heard an interview with Christie and Ham. Vlade had the same surgery as Porter. Vlade has a very long career. In addition, Vlade was not very athletic. Porter is more of a work out beast.
Grant also said that Corliss had the exact same surgery his rookie year and it never affected him after that.
If Porter is healthy my top four for the Kings (in alphabetical order) are Ayton, Bagley, Doncic and Porter.
Assuming the Suns take Ayton I have Bagley, Doncic and Porter as my favorite players.
I like Jaren Jackson Jr and I know the analytics love him but when I watch him there's an awkwardness about everything he does, including his shot which is a low release push shot with little rotation. Even when he puts the ball on the floor and drives for a dunk he looks mechanical in his movements to me. That and I never like projecting a guy's stats based on lower than average minutes. It's the same thing with Zach Collins last year or even per 36 stats for an NBA player that gets 12 minutes a game. Which isn't to say I don't think Jackson will be a bust. I just think it's more likely that he's a defensive role player who can hopefully space the floor. He's young enough that he could definitely prove me wrong but right now he's not a guy I'd peg as a potential superstar.
Some notes on Porter - he measured at 6'9.5" in bare feet with a 7'0.25" wingspan with a 9'0.5" standing reach. That makes him slightly taller than Durant and with a a standing reach just an inch shorter despite his wingspan not being as ridiculous as KD's. He's a full sized SF with the potential (when he gains strength) of being a solid smallball 4. That's a great weapon in today's NBA.
As I mentioned in another thread, I'd be happy (assuming the Kings get Porter's medicals and he's deemed healthy) with a trade down from #2 to #3 picking up Atlanta's #19 pick and coming away with Porter and Keita Bates-Diop plus whoever is there at #36.
rosa u podne
Bench
Most of the time he shot over smaller defender, or tried one or two dribles to come closer to the basket and again shot over defender. I haven't seen any attempt to post up or breaking ankles and lay up. The last one is not expected against faster defender, what I mean, I haven't seen anything impresive.
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ParniValjak
All-Star
I also have those in my top 4 for the Kings with Ayton being my number #1.
On Porter the question needs to be asked. Is he a SF who can swing to PF or a PF that swings over to SF? I am not sure that I have an answer to that. From Kings perspective, it would be more favorable if Porter was a SF who can swing up a spot.
The athleticism is there, the length is definitely there. Not a lighting first step as a SF. Handle is not shifty enough for a SF that can work his way through the traffic. He is going to be OKish defensively but can he be a very good defender? As a SF, can he be a real scorer against the Kawhi Leonards of the world? He is not a great passer even though he sometimes showed flashes. Will be surprise as a passer like WCS has or will he be a black hole?
I think the raw package is there that will need additional work. Most of the things I mentioned are something that can be improved on. If he can improve on those, he could be elite wing in the league. Million dollar question is will he get there.
Interesting question is, if you put Porter into last half a dozen drafts (without the benefit of hindsight) how would he ranks against other wings and just where would he rank in general. I reckon he would be first wing in a lot of those drafts and would be right at the pointy end in terms of overall selection.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
He’s a PF that’s probably switchable enough to stay with SFs on the defensive end. And, he may be able to enhance his range of motion and become more of a SF now that he’s fixed his back. But, what we have on film is a PF.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I think we seriously should consider trading down to 3 with the Hawks and snagging Porter, as long as medically he's good to go. I know the video is against inferior competition and whatnot, but some of the criticisms (not driving to the hoop, not blocking shots etc) don't look to be as big a problem here. And the kid def looks big, imagine when he matures, he will be a monster.
He's a 3 by the way, no way he can play the 4. His game is a SF's game all the way through and he can handle it well enough and he's def got some moves that look very natural, specifically a filthy crossover that he used and that no one would ever block. I can see why Vlade likes this kid, he definitely has a lot of the tools to succeed in the NBA today. People also call him a black hole, but I think he is an ok passer and to be honest, we desperately need a go to scorer.
I've always been a Dončić guy, but I wouldn't be devastated with Porter. He would be hard to stop in his prime.
Entity
Hall of Famer
That’s a question you make the opponent answer. Look at lebron. He is pf to me.
LeBron also has 50 lbs on Porter Jr while being 2" shorter.
Until MPJ gains strength (especially in his lower body) and learns to rebound at a higher rate he's a tall SF who can be a small ball PF when the matchups allow.
kingsfan1984
Starter
More and more i like the idea of MPJ plus treats for the 2nd. Im not a fan of Ayton. I think he has as much passion for the game as willie. Doncic is hard to evaluate because his skill set and feel is fantastic but his apparent slow/heavy footedness and stiffness make me conserned about how big his upside is.
ApolloDaGod
G-League
I like to look at per 40 min stats time to time. To me it's a reflection of their max potential at the next level, IF THEY CAN REACH THAT POTENTIAL.
Porter Jr is sitting at 22 points, 15 rebounds and 2 steals 35% FG and 77%% FT.
Bagley is at 25-13 and 2 assists at 64 % FG and 62% FT.
Jackson is at 20, 10 and 5 blocks at 60% FG and 80% FT.
Bamba is at 17, 14 and 5 blocks at 60% FG and 68% FT.
I think Vlade has a tough decision at #2. This 2nd pick seems to be a tad bit more challenging than recent #2 picks. There's typically a unanimous best player on the board at #2, this year doesn't seem to be the case. On paper and scouting numerous videos of the top 10 prospects, Jackson seems to be the safest pick. All of these prospects will make an immediate impact on this Kings roster. Highest ceiling? is Porter Jr easily. If I am drafting right now I'm considering these 4 guys heavily (Luka is out for now). Jackson leading the pack. Porter is the big risk/reward, leaning towards reward rite now. Bagley not far behind. I think Bamba is the least favorite at #2. One of these players will be a Sacramento King.
Porter Jr is sitting at 22 points, 15 rebounds and 2 steals 35% FG and 77%% FT.
Bagley is at 25-13 and 2 assists at 64 % FG and 62% FT.
Jackson is at 20, 10 and 5 blocks at 60% FG and 80% FT.
Bamba is at 17, 14 and 5 blocks at 60% FG and 68% FT.
I think Vlade has a tough decision at #2. This 2nd pick seems to be a tad bit more challenging than recent #2 picks. There's typically a unanimous best player on the board at #2, this year doesn't seem to be the case. On paper and scouting numerous videos of the top 10 prospects, Jackson seems to be the safest pick. All of these prospects will make an immediate impact on this Kings roster. Highest ceiling? is Porter Jr easily. If I am drafting right now I'm considering these 4 guys heavily (Luka is out for now). Jackson leading the pack. Porter is the big risk/reward, leaning towards reward rite now. Bagley not far behind. I think Bamba is the least favorite at #2. One of these players will be a Sacramento King.
roasthawg
Starter
This is where I'm at... All these guys are pretty close. They all have different strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't be upset with any of them at #2 or with trading back a few spots. Ideally vlade will fall in love with one of them over the others though.
KingsSelecao
Bench
Lebron weighed 20 lbs more than Porter in his rookie year. I don't know where you're getting 50 lbs from? From Where? So Lebron weighed 240 as a rookie and Porter is currently 190. Please. Porter is listed at 215 right now.
A better comparison is Klay Thompson. Klay was 10 lbs lighter than Porter his rookie year. He has put on about 10 lbs of Muscle since he's been int he NBA. Porter can easily put on another 10 lbs if he hits the gym. He would still be bigger than Klay.
