Marvin Bagley III explains why he liked tweet suggesting Kings trade him

Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#151
#151
KingsFanSince85 said:
Durability and availability have made up the bulk of the “dirt” KINGS fans throw at him. That, and the childish, unprofessional behavior displayed by team Bagley. Which, again, isn’t speculative nonsense.
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I don't think that saying those are the bulk of the complaints is correct. Certainly, those are complaints, and they are common complaints.

But as far as I can tell, the most common complaint by far Kings fans make about Bagley basically boils down to "he's a terrible basketball player who has no value and has no hope of even developing value". And while that may be a bit of hyperbole for some folks' position, I think it's dead-on many other folks' position.

I wouldn't be so adamant about defending Bagley if the major complaints were durability and unprofessionalism - the first being a clear issue thus far and the second being relatively subjective (and, to be fair, at least partially excusable by the way the fanbase has treated him). But I think the "no value" position is pretty wrong and the "no hope of developing value" position is absolute nonsense.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#152
#152
Capt. Factorial said:
I don't think that saying those are the bulk of the complaints is correct. Certainly, those are complaints, and they are common complaints.

But as far as I can tell, the most common complaint by far Kings fans make about Bagley basically boils down to "he's a terrible basketball player who has no value and has no hope of even developing value". And while that may be a bit of hyperbole for some folks' position, I think it's dead-on many other folks' position.

I wouldn't be so adamant about defending Bagley if the major complaints were durability and unprofessionalism - the first being a clear issue thus far and the second being relatively subjective (and, to be fair, at least partially excusable by the way the fanbase has treated him). But I think the "no value" position is pretty wrong and the "no hope of developing value" position is absolute nonsense.
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I think there are definitely two camps and the fact that Marvin is pushing away his defenders is what is really troubling.

As someone who tried to give him a chance and defended him a lot, I MIGHT be taking this personally. While I am also crossing my fingers and hoping he decides to start acting like a professional.
 
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sactowndog

All-Star
#153
#153
Capt. Factorial said:
I don't think that saying those are the bulk of the complaints is correct. Certainly, those are complaints, and they are common complaints.

But as far as I can tell, the most common complaint by far Kings fans make about Bagley basically boils down to "he's a terrible basketball player who has no value and has no hope of even developing value". And while that may be a bit of hyperbole for some folks' position, I think it's dead-on many other folks' position.

I wouldn't be so adamant about defending Bagley if the major complaints were durability and unprofessionalism - the first being a clear issue thus far and the second being relatively subjective (and, to be fair, at least partially excusable by the way the fanbase has treated him). But I think the "no value" position is pretty wrong and the "no hope of developing value" position is absolute nonsense.
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So I supported the Bagley pick. I thought with better coaching he would significantly improve but we have not seen much improvement.
 
Reverend

Reverend

Bench
#154
#154
Is it fair to call him a selfish player after his first few years in the league? The fact that he cannot set a proper screen still and is more concerned with getting his own and rolling to the rim to get open was the first indication of this, his clear shortcomings as far as team defense goes also indicate this, and then ofcourse blaming the team you’re on for not having a chance at the post season when you weren’t even contributing to any winning yourself in the rare case where you would play…the evidence seems to be mounting that Marv is who he is and any attempt at salvaging a role for him on this team may be to the detriment of the rest of the teams morale and chemistry. You know what they say, one rotten apple could spoil the bunch
 
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Livinthedream

All-Star
#156
#156
hrdboild said:
Also, I don't know why anyone would continue to think this is the fans' fault somehow. We drafted a guy who was a poor defender and straight line driver in college and that's still who he is now. It's not like pointing out his flaws somehow manifested them into reality. Maybe if you want to put on the purple glasses and only see the upside this may come as a surprise that he isn't an All-NBA scoring monster by now but just like previous Kings draft picks who were taken too early and washed out despite overwhelming belief from the fanbase that they were going to be great -- the warning signs were there from the beginning.
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I don't see anyone saying this whole thing is the fans fault. For years I've said the responsibility comes from the top down. Owner, GM and coach.

However, there is a running incongruous narrative that it would be in the best interest of Marvin to have the fans on his side, while also saying fans attitude towards him should have no impact on his life.

Fans matter or they don't. Taking credit for the positives while absolving themselves of any negative impact is exactly what they're accusing Marvin of doing. Kettle, meet pot.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#158
#158
Capt. Factorial said:
I don't think that saying those are the bulk of the complaints is correct. Certainly, those are complaints, and they are common complaints.

But as far as I can tell, the most common complaint by far Kings fans make about Bagley basically boils down to "he's a terrible basketball player who has no value and has no hope of even developing value". And while that may be a bit of hyperbole for some folks' position, I think it's dead-on many other folks' position.

I wouldn't be so adamant about defending Bagley if the major complaints were durability and unprofessionalism - the first being a clear issue thus far and the second being relatively subjective (and, to be fair, at least partially excusable by the way the fanbase has treated him). But I think the "no value" position is pretty wrong and the "no hope of developing value" position is absolute nonsense.
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Fair enough. I suppose the generalization I posed was more from my own POV.

Coming from the general view of this forum, your characterization re: the major complaints is likely more accurate.

I’m on record believing the KINGS will be much better off with MB3 succeeding rather than failing. I’m also on record not understanding why any legit KINGS fan would root for him to fail.

Being right about the 2018 draft shouldn’t eclipse wanting the team to make it out of the quicksand they’ve fallen into.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#159
#159
Unless Bagley can be included as part of trade package for an all-star level player, like Ben Simmons or Myles Turner, I think the best route for the Kings is to keep Bagley going into the season and force him to step up his game and improve his stock for his next contract.

Trading him away for peanuts would be a huge mistake and unless we can use him to get a quality player that fits our timeline, it's best to let Bagley prove his worth to the rest of the NBA.

If he shows enough to get a decent return on a trade, then he gets what he wants and a trade at the deadline. If he doesn't prove his worth enough, he will be a King for a long time, because the Kings won't trade him for peanuts and he's going to get low ball offers in free agency, which the Kings would be smart to match, to keep him as an asset.

Either way, in a contract year, Bagley will be forced to play his best ball and improve his stock next season.
 
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Turgenev

Starter
#160
#160
KingsFanSince85 said:
Marvin Bagley III only playing in 47% of all KINGS games the past 3 seasons is not speculative nonsense.

Durability and availability have made up the bulk of the “dirt” KINGS fans throw at him. That, and the childish, unprofessional behavior displayed by team Bagley. Which, again, isn’t speculative nonsense.
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For some reason I don't get notifications when people quote me anymore.

Anyway - Capt Fact responded far more clearly to your post than I ever could. The bulk of the complaints are not simply durability and professionalism. They extend from who he is, who he isn't, his interests outside of basketball, and what kind of family he comes from. They often lack nuance, with only a limited number of his detractors willing to acknowledge any of his positives. And they do not just come from anonymous fans, with local media publically trolling and shaming him.

My use of the term 'speculative nonsense' was in response to a series of posts about MBIII not being willing to train with the Kings. This wasn't based on any objective truth (he is training with the Kings). Nor was it based on genuine standard - NBA players go were they want in the offseason - Harden is in Paris - it's not something that is unique to one or two players.

As for the 'childish, unprofessional behaviour' - do people who whinge on the internet have the right to get upset about someone else's whinge on the internet? Especially when that person is likely much younger than them and is frequently trolled? For some reason, the posters who could feel let down (e.g., Living the dream) are not the ones bemoaning it.

I get some of it. I wouldn't mind seeing him traded for a slightly more robust player. But guess what? Until MBIII is moved, that robust player is playing for another team and, unless it's the Boomers, I want them to lose.
 
T

Turgenev

Starter
#161
#161
KingsFanSince85 said:
Fair enough. I suppose the generalization I posed was more from my own POV.

Coming from the general view of this forum, your characterization re: the major complaints is likely more accurate.

I’m on record believing the KINGS will be much better off with MB3 succeeding rather than failing. I’m also on record not understanding why any legit KINGS fan would root for him to fail.

Being right about the 2018 draft shouldn’t eclipse wanting the team to make it out of the quicksand they’ve fallen into.
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Ah I wrote my last response before I read this. Fair perspective. Let's see how it works out.
 
S

sactowndog

All-Star
#164
#164
Turgenev said:
For some reason I don't get notifications when people quote me anymore.

Anyway - Capt Fact responded far more clearly to your post than I ever could. The bulk of the complaints are not simply durability and professionalism. They extend from who he is, who he isn't, his interests outside of basketball, and what kind of family he comes from. They often lack nuance, with only a limited number of his detractors willing to acknowledge any of his positives. And they do not just come from anonymous fans, with local media publically trolling and shaming him.

My use of the term 'speculative nonsense' was in response to a series of posts about MBIII not being willing to train with the Kings. This wasn't based on any objective truth (he is training with the Kings). Nor was it based on genuine standard - NBA players go were they want in the offseason - Harden is in Paris - it's not something that is unique to one or two players.

As for the 'childish, unprofessional behaviour' - do people who whinge on the internet have the right to get upset about someone else's whinge on the internet? Especially when that person is likely much younger than them and is frequently trolled? For some reason, the posters who could feel let down (e.g., Living the dream) are not the ones bemoaning it.

I get some of it. I wouldn't mind seeing him traded for a slightly more robust player. But guess what? Until MBIII is moved, that robust player is playing for another team and, unless it's the Boomers, I want them to lose.
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this statement would not be true.

When he broke his hand it was well documented he returned home and did not stay in Sac working with coaches on the myriad of defensive fundamentals for which he has not improved, When it was reported he was in Miami it is not a stretch to assume such behavior was continuing.

most people have issues that 3 years in... Marvin has not significantly improved as a player.
 
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Volblorx8634

Bench
#172
#172
SLAB said:
Hasn’t stopped Fox from getting better every year. When your (allegedly) as talented as MB3 is touted as, you should improve.
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Oh for sure. I do think Bagley was in greater need of being coached through things like team defense than Fox, but there definitely hasn't been even the level of improvement we probably should be seeing regardless of coaching quality.
 
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sactowndog

All-Star
#173
#173
Telemachus said:
I thought he went to Arizona. I heard he went home, which I thought was Arizona.
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yes he did. But someone posted he was working out this summer in Miami which in and of itself doesn’t matter but when put in context of everything else can raise additional concerns regarding his improvement in team oriented aspects
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#174
#174
sactowndog said:
yes he did. But someone posted he was working out this summer in Miami which in and of itself doesn’t matter but when put in context of everything else can raise additional concerns regarding his improvement in team oriented aspects
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I mentioned he was working out in Miami earlier this Summer (Mark Jones talked to him there). It was a camp that a lot of players go to every year.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#175
#175
SLAB said:
Hasn’t stopped Fox from getting better every year. When you’re (allegedly) as talented as MB3 is touted as, you should improve.
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I thought both Fox and Bagley made big improvements this past year, and both mentioned working with Rico Hines.
Bagley has got by on athleticism his whole life with his Dad as his coach. The proof that he can learn if he wants is playing in the Finals for the Suns right now. Ayton came into the league with pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses as Bagley. Different styles, but similar. Ayton has made huge strides this year on defense and on offense. I think a lot of that can be contributed to CP3. The whole has a different attitude on defense this season. Ayton recently said that CP3 showed him how to set a proper screen and you can see the difference it makes on offense.
 
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Volblorx8634

Bench
#177
#177
Telemachus said:
I thought both Fox and Bagley made big improvements this past year, and both mentioned working with Rico Hines.
Bagley has got by on athleticism his whole life with his Dad as his coach. The proof that he can learn if he wants is playing in the Finals for the Suns right now. Ayton came into the league with pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses as Bagley. Different styles, but similar. Ayton has made huge strides this year on defense and on offense. I think a lot of that can be contributed to CP3. The whole has a different attitude on defense this season. Ayton recently said that CP3 showed him how to set a proper screen and you can see the difference it makes on offense.
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I dont know what is more amazing to me: how many professional basketball players cannot set a proper screen or how professional basketball coaches and player development guys can't get players to learn how to set a proper screen.
 
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LenPa

Prospect
#179
#179
Volblorx8634 said:
I dont know what is more amazing to me: how many professional basketball players cannot set a proper screen or how professional basketball coaches and player development guys can't get players to learn how to set a proper screen.
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As Livin mentioned not too important as everyone wants to shoot three.
But it also amazes me that some players can't learn even such "simple things" (or in my view things player should be able to learn (partly)) or that coaches can't teach players such things (to learn shoot 3s is more difficult in my view but setting a good screen more easy and thereby valuable for a team)
 
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Volblorx8634

Bench
#180
#180
Livinthedream said:
Too busy teaching big men to shoot 3s.
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LenPa said:
As Livin mentioned not too important as everyone wants to shoot three.
But it also amazes me that some players can't learn even such "simple things" (or in my view things player should be able to learn (partly)) or that coaches can't teach players such things (to learn shoot 3s is more difficult in my view but setting a good screen more easy and thereby valuable for a team)
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I don't disagree with you, but I don't understand why the two are mutually exclusive. In fact, setting good screens is a tool that can create space for a player to take a three. If anything setting a good screen equips you to take advantage of three point shooting ability.
 
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