Marty Mac: Petrie's biggest decision concerns Artest, Bibby

[VF21]

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/205977.html

Marty Mac's World: Petrie's biggest decision concerns Artest, Bibby
By Martin McNeal - Bee Staff Writer
Last Updated 6:32 am PDT Tuesday, June 5, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C2

Certainly, the Kings' search for a new coach is a crucial decision.

Yet basketball president Geoff Petrie's most important calls will be what to do, if anything, with small forward Ron Artest and/or point guard Mike Bibby.

After speaking with several people associated with the team, it seems a done deal that one of them will be traded. Petrie said to comment on the possibility of trading both players would be only speculation at this point. Trading the team's second- and third-leading scorers (Artest, then Bibby) puts the high beam on this being a totally new squad in the fall.

Well, Mr. Petrie, it's all good to trade either of these guys. You can trade both of them. Just don't trade them to the same squad because neither really wants to play with the other. There are personality differences between the two, but generally speaking, Artest stands for defense and Bibby is more offensive-oriented. Artest also wants to be heavily involved in the offense and is the better all-around player, but also the one with the most uncontrollable issues.

Now, it's not impossible for them to play together again next season, but that's where the strength of the new coach comes into the mix.

The coach would have a heck of a selling job convincing two talented but hard-headed players to erase any past discord between them and buy into the new program. There is no more difficult part of coaching than ego-massaging. And the new coach's middle names had better be Sigmund and Freud to get this pair on the same page.

Bibby's shooting percentage has decreased in each of the past four seasons. He is most effective when playing off a strong post and passing presence. It's difficult to remember Bibby averaged 8.1 and 8.4 assists with the Vancouver (now Memphis) Grizzlies in the two seasons before he joined the Kings in 2001-02.

Maybe putting the ball back into his hands instead of the frontcourt personnel will become a byproduct of the coaching change. Then again, that byproduct could be an address change. But we do now all realize there was only one Vlade Divac and one Chris Webber, and they both are history around these parts.

About the writer: The Bee's Martin McNeal can be reached at mmcneal@sacbee.com

 

[VF21]

...it seems a done deal that one of them will be traded.

Okay, I've added a poll. You're Geoff Petrie. Which player do you try harder to move?

 

[VF21]

This was tougher than I thought it would be. The difference for me is the loud ticking sound I still hear whenever Ron Artest's name is mentioned. If we're going to rebuild, we don't need to be worrying about the "other shoe dropping." And I think we all have to realize there's a very good chance it will drop ... again. As good as Artest can be, I think at some point we just have to realize he's fatally flawed and let him go.

While Bibby's skills may or may not be declining, he's not a disruption in the locker room, his off-court activities aren't a major distraction to the team, and - with the right new players - he could still be a very valuable part of our team.

 

[uptempo-kings]

I really think gp is considering to trade mike Bibby because hes less of a risk, which teams like and still a very good pg among the points we have in the nba and we can get better aspects in return, ron artest on the other hand is a headcase but hes good and his salary is not bad at all. But then again we are in rebuild mode so if the right deal comes along i think gp really doesn't care who goes or stays my opinion though mike stays! ronny gets shipped off!!!

 

[kennadog]

I agree this is hard. To the right team, we could probably get more for Bibby to help us toward rebuilding. On the other hand, I really want RA gone.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm looking at this one from a pure basketball standpoint. Bibby can run a team and, when healthy, he's one of the best shooters in the NBA. But even with a new commitment to defense last season he's a terrible defensive player. Basically the opposing team's PG can do whatever they want to out there and if you're wondering why our defense is so atrociously bad I think you have to start there. If we're talking about rebuilding here, a new team philosophy, some dedication to building a defensive squad -- Bibby has to go. You're forever going to be covering up for his poor defense as long as he's getting the big minutes at PG.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Kevin Martin is a defensive liability out there, but he certainly hasn't been anything better than average thus far -- with occasional glimpses of something better. With Martin looking to be a fixture at SG for the forseeable future, it's that much harder to cover up for Bibby's poor defense in the backcourt.

The problem with Artest, from what I've seen, is that he didn't buy into the offensive philosophy of the team last year (whatever that actually was) and preferred to do his own thing. There's a chance this can be corrected if you get the right personnel around him -- a coach to dictate a system that works (e.g. Rick Adelman) and the right players to make it work. We obviously didn't have that combination last year but what about those two months with Adelman in charge the previous year? Artest fit in just fine then. How much of the on-the-court problems were the result of Eric Musselman? Hard to say, but I have my suspicions.

That would be my decision. Keep Artest. You can't trade him for anything approaching true value anyway and worst case scenario, he's on the team for two more years. It's not like he's killing the salary cap in the meantime either. And having the best defensive player in the NBA on your team, provided he can actually be controlled and play within the system, has got to be a big head start towards rebuilding your team around defense.

As for the ticking time-bomb issue, well, I can understand why people would feel that way. The safest thing to do would be to cut ties now so you can stop worrying about it. Make it someone else's problem (like we did with Chris Webber). That probably sets us further back right now, but maybe we come out ahead anyway by moving in the right direction. It really just depends on how likely you think the time-bomb is to explode. Admitedly I'm pretty detached from the whole thing, much more so than Petrie or the Maloofs, but it appears to me that a good portion of this whole "Artest is crazy, Artest going off is inevitable" point of view is the creation of the media. People do love a good story, and "Artest the maniac" is a good story. My personal opinion is that it is at least 50% fiction, and really no amount of convincing from other fans or media people is going to change my mind.

So assuming Artest isn't going to posion the whole franchise, the best basketball move is to trade Bibby -- and it's not because the two can't seem to get along (I think that's at least as much of a fiction created by assumptions and outside perception as the "Artest the maniac" storyline) it's because Bibby on the court is a defensive liability and you don't build championship level defensive teams with a defensive liability at a key position. [Miller needs to go for the same reason but that's obviously not going to happen this offseason and may never happen unless he returns to form]. Artest wants to win, Bibby couldn't hit the broadside of a barn last year. I wouldn't have passed him the ball either. That doesn't mean I don't like him personally.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I kinda think of it this way, artests position is easier to fill, we have some young talent who can play the 3 ( garcia ) unless we can grab williams which will be very hard IMO, then we need to keep bibby, douby wont be a pg and price is a career backup at best. I think Bibby, Martin and Garcia could have really good chemisty on the court and i could see garcia turning into a doug christie type player in the near future

 

[John Galt]

I would have voted "neither" if that had been a choice.... but for this poll I will accept the premise that "at least one of them must go".

Hard choice. I voted Bibby just because Ron is a bargain at his contract. Even if you have to cut your losses and just throw him off the team, the downside risk is just not that high - compared to the chance that you get him on his best behaviour - on and off the court - in a contract year. Then you have the sign & trade leverage next off season.

Neither... both... either one.... I'm getting numb to it now and am just ready to get on with things with a radically different bunch of guys next year.

 

[Tha rizzock]

I'd like both too stay unless you get a good deal but artest would need to be moved more then mike. The kings need a bigger athletic guy at PF however.

 

[sidney]

Artest is an elite talent and leaves it all on the floor. He could actually influence young guys the right way with his effort and drive.

We're not going to be contending regardless so I'm not as worried about his dependability/distractions in outside "incidents". I would keep him over Bibby if given the choice.

Both is probably the best answer though.

 

[NewMonkey]

I would have picked "Both" given the option. If I had to make a choice, it's a no brainer: Ron Artest. (Pun intended.)

 

[tyrant]

we could get 2 decent players for ron where with bibby we could only end up with a cheaper point guard and a filler.

move ron, draft a good big man and hire SVG. we're back in it.

 

[Entity]

I'd have to stick with Bibby because we are currently 2 deep at the 3 spot with Artest gone and 0 deep in the pg spot unless you count Price and Douby unless you want to get the #1 draft pick next year neither of those guys should be your starting pg.

 

[jimbodan]

Personally I want Bibby gone. He had a great run with us when the system and players surrounding him where built for his game. Now however that is simply not the case. His horrible defense combined with a lack of interior defense are the quite probably the 2 biggest reasons the Kings have gone downhill. If the Kings are truly serious about getting better defensively then Bibby absolutely has to go. The fact that he isn't a very good play maker doesn't help his case either, especially if the Kings go into re-build mode. We need someone who can distribute the ball and help the youngsters develop, not someone who is shoot first and pass second and plays no d. All that being said, keeping Artest definitely is a big risk but at this stage unless I got an offer for Artest that absolutely blew me away I'd keep him and hope for the best. Even if he melts down he only has 2 years left at a very cheap salary.

 

[ParniValjak]

I think BOTH should be traded but it would be a tough choice to make as to which one I would trade if I was allowed only one trade.

On one hand you have a Bibby with a monsterous contract that doesn't match his production and it goes for another couple of years. On the other you have a great defensive player who is payed less and is somewhat underpaid from a basketball point of view but he also happens to be a nutcase whose behaviour has a negative impact on the team.

If I was forced to choose one, I would trade Artest but if I had a choice, both would be gone.

 

[kupman]

For me, this is an easy question. You try harder to move Ron - no question.

I really do not understand why everyone is so down on Bibby. Yes, he defense stinks. However, he is solid in just about every other aspect. It is my opinion that fans have very short memories. Mike was loved just 2-3 years ago.

He could be great for the Kings again. You guys really need to start showing him more love.

 

[BMiller52]

I'd trade Bibby, I think Artest's problems have been blown out of proportion and I'm sick of Bibby's shot selection+horrible defense combo. He's killing our D. Martin doesn't compliment Bibby, Bibby doesn't compliment Martin. They're both shooters/scorers but Martin is better at it and better defensively. Martin's still not great defensively and with Miller at C your PG just can't be that bad on D. Artest's skill set compliments Martin IMO. He guards the best wing player and that lets Martin focus on scoring.

 

[SacKings384]

I think it's necessary to trade Ron because if he does something stupid (which wouldn't be the hard to fathom) then he would literally be worthless. I still think Bibby can return to being a solid player if Ron leaves, but if Bibby leaves Ron will still be the same old Ron. So I think it's more important to get rid of Ron and then Bibby if possible.

 

[Venom]

I don't want either in a rebuild; waste of our time and the Maloof's money.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I said Ron since the earlier you trade him the better, you never know what is going to happen with him. However I want both traded as long as we don't get any crap contracts back, we have no need for either one of them in a rebuilding effort.

 

[SLAB]

I'd trade Bibby, I think Artest's problems have been blown out of proportion and I'm sick of Bibby's shot selection+horrible defense combo. He's killing our D. Martin doesn't compliment Bibby, Bibby doesn't compliment Martin. They're both shooters/scorers but Martin is better at it and better defensively. Martin's still not great defensively and with Miller at C your PG just can't be that bad on D. Artest's skill set compliments Martin IMO. He guards the best wing player and that lets Martin focus on scoring.

I 100,000% agree with you.

I'd like to know the exact problem that has made Ron Artest such a terrible King other than the "He's going to blow up soon!!1!" excuse.

 

[Smills91]

Whichever player nets a better return ought to be moved.

 

[GoGoGadget]

For the purposes of the poll, I voted Artest -- there's a level of uncertainty there that I think puts him a bit higher on the priority list for me.

However, if I were really the person in charge of making such decisions (a scary thought, believe me), I would of course move whichever of the two got me a better return.

 

[vytzka]

My two (European) cents.

Ideally, we should ship them both out. But I want Artest gone first and foremost. He just does not fit and is otherwise... more trouble than he's worth IMHO. A huge distraction at best. He might shave the team name into his head, tattoo it, I don't care. Mike is a true King, and Artest is not. Send him the hell away to whoever gives anything good back for him, and develop Cisco instead.

Bibby, on the other hand is a very good offensive PG, and even if he stays I won't be too sad about it. He just has to believe in himself and work for it and he could still have a couple of really awesome years. If he doesn't have Artest going "me, me, me" all over the place and adjusts to work better with Baby Kevin on offense (which includes cutting down on stupid shots), we'll have a very lethal backcourt.

Well, on offense anyway. On defense we still suck. But as JWill^2 develops, we'll have a real shotblocking presence in the paint for once and this will make it easier for our guards (including Brad Miller ).

 

[BMiller52]

I just don't see how we can continue to go on with such an awful backcourt(defensively). People complain about the big men like there's no tomorrow but the whole reason they're getting killed is because Bibby(and occasionally Kevin) let their man just walk to the rim. Either the big man tries to block the shot(which ours usually fail at, but they do try sometimes) and they end up out of position committing a foul/letting the opposing PG get their man an open dunk or they let the guy waltz through the lane and get a lay up. As long as our backcourt sucks this bad on D our defense is going to be bad no matter what big men we have. Kevin is going to be a decent defender eventually IMO because he is able to stay with quicker guys, he just has trouble with stronger players. But Bibby doesn't even contest shots on defense he just lets the guy either have an open shot or a lay up. Yeah our bigs suck defensively, but Mike just makes their job that much harder.


If we're going to have to keep one I'd rather keep Artest because he's cheaper, his defense is awesome(only player who can stop LeBron, Kobe, AND Carmelo), his offense is good when he doesn't force it too badly(which may change a bit with a new coach), and he's younger.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I voted to get rid of Bibby and I previously stated my reasons a month or so ago for wanting to keep Artest around. The fact that Bibby is owed $13.5 million next season and then $14.5 at the end of his deal makes it a no brainer for me. The problem may be that his value has now shrunk so low that no one wants to pay him that $28,000,000 or the offer in return be some other bloated contract by a questionable or mediocre player. Despite Artest's issues his reasonable contract makes him WAY more marketable around the league - besides the fact he's simply a better player at this point overall that Bibby. I still think Artest is worth the gamble, may mature some more as we and he go along (he's 27 next season), while Bibby will be 29 and plays like he's 35. We know the Maloof's are gamblers since they rolled the dice on Artest to begin with and I don't think they are ready to fold that hand just yet, unless the offer coming back is too good to be true - JMHO.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I voted Artest because it seems like now would be the best time to get something for him, and the time when teams are most willing to take him.
Bibby on the other hand needs to go right now, we need a more rounded point guard, with Martins effeciency on the scoring end we need a playmaker first/score when open/ type of point guard.

i watched every game last season and I saw Bibby pass up open looks to Martin for stupid shots multiple times and sometimes it even seemed like Bibby would ignore Martin totally on the offensive end.
That being said we can't have our main playmaker taking away that much from our main scorer, Martin is going to be this teams main scorer for a long time and our point guard needs to realize that. Our PG has to compliment him fully on offence, needs to look for him on everyplay, with a new young point guard coming in he wont think as big as himself as Bibby did with shot selection and I can see him complimenting Martin alot more which will make this team much more efficient on the scoring end and defensive if he can play defence.

 

[tubiscus]

I 100,000% agree with you.

I'd like to know the exact problem that has made Ron Artest such a terrible King other than the "He's going to blow up soon!!1!" excuse.

Ok. Do you recall the 2-3 times he mysteriously was suddenly too injured to play and let the coach know less than an hour before tip off?

How many games did he miss with "Family" issues? How much of a distraction did Ron become during the season, to the point that during warm ups for a game, Kevin Martin declined to answer a reporter's question about where Ron was!

I don't disagree with anyone who criticizes Bibby's defense, but the guy plays hurt and doesn't allow his personal life to interfere with what he's paid to do. You want to lose both, fine, but I'd trade Ron for a box of sweatsocks!

 

[Kingster]

Both Artest & Bibby Should be Traded

I read more rumblings in the newspaper that one of the two will be traded, not both. If true, it indicates that Petrie sees this as a chemistry problem - if one goes, then the situation is solved. I don't think it's a chemistry problem. I think it's a REBUILDING problem. You can't build a team with either one of these guys. If only one is traded it indicates to me that Petrie is STILL not coming to grips with BLOWING UP this team. He's got to trade Artest because he's a nutcase. He's got to trade Bibby because he's a no-D, no upside, non-Core player. Petrie, suck it up and trade them both.

 

[treewoman]

Great poll VF! That is a tough one. I had a hard time deciding. I choose Mike but am not real happy w/that choice. I wish we could see what they each feel about staying - their feelings would impact my choice.