Marty Burns: Progress report (incl. Kevin & Bonzi)

[GoGoGadget]

Cliffnotes?


You see, Cal Kings believes that Bonzi is selfish, untrustworthy and out for himself, and therefore, obviously since he is selfish, untrustworthy and out for himself the only logical thing for him to do would be to fake an injury and tank his contract season while malingering on the bench while some upstart kid starts putting up big games that threaten Bonzi's position and future. Because that's obviously what a selfish out for himself person would do no matter how completely ridiculous such an assertion appears on the surface. Furthermore it appears that Cal Kings a) did not watch the Kings much last year, as he both missed the fact that Bonzi was having a heck of an impressive season early, as well as missing the fact that Bonzi returned long before the playoffs; b) thinks Bonzi is a helluva lot better than I do given the apparent expectation that he could put up 23 and 12 on a routine basis whenever he wanted to and was simply malingering for, well the entire rest of his career, c) seems to have a rather dubious grasp on the remainder of Bonzi's career, aside from apparently knowing many many people in Portland and Memphis, causing him to make the basic mistake of mixing up a dog an a pain in the ***; and d) apparently thinks Geoff Petrie is a complete ****ing idiot, for who the hell else would offer $38 million to such an obvious cancer?

Danke!

 

[Cal-Kings]

Cliffnotes?

You see, Cal Kings believes that Bonzi is selfish, untrustworthy and out for himself, and therefore, obviously since he is selfish, untrustworthy and out for himself the only logical thing for him to do would be to fake an injury and tank his contract season while malingering on the bench while some upstart kid starts putting up big games that threaten Bonzi's position and future. Because that's obviously what a selfish out for himself person would do no matter how completely idiotic such an assertion appears on the surface.

Actually, that's pretty close. I question Bonzi's integrity. I feel I'm not the only person with this "completely idiotic assersion", but I accept that you feel otherwise.

But the next is putting words in my mouth. I never asserted any of the following.

Furthermore it appears that Cal Kings a) did not watch the Kings much last year, as he both missed the fact that Bonzi was having a heck of an impressive season early, as well as missing the fact that Bonzi returned long before the playoffs;

I watched every game last season. I tape every game and have done so for years. I sometimes watch them several times, unless it's just too ugly and I can't watch again. I said Bonzi played well when he played but, IMHO, missed too many games.

b) thinks Bonzi is a helluva lot better than I do given the apparent expectation that he could put up 23 and 12 on a routine basis whenever he wanted to and was simply malingering for, well the entire rest of his career,

Hmmm. I don't recall ever expressing an expectation of numbers from Bonzi. And I do recall saying that it was an "extreme hypothetical" that we'd do better with him in those games he missed.

Is he "malingering" to this day? It appears so.

c) seems to have a rather dubious grasp on the remainder of Bonzi's career, aside from apparently knowing many many people in Portland and Memphis, causing him to make the basic mistake of mixing up a dog an a pain in the ***; and

I think making an assumption about how people in Portland felt about Bonzi isn't a wild stretch of the imagination since they boo'ed him routinely. Maybe they were saying "BOOOOOnzi!"

d) apparently thinks Geoff Petrie is a complete ****ing idiot, for who the hell else would offer $38 million to such an obvious cancer?

Hmm. I don't recall ever mentioning Petrie either. Although, I think he was brilliant in his standing firm in that contract negotiation and allowing Bonzi to leave. Petrie is the man!

 

[Cal-Kings]

Ah ha. Thanks for the summary.

Yeah, I don't think Bonzi faked that injury.

I don't either.

I never said he "faked" the injury. I suggested it was possible, IMHO, that he malingered over it. I was suspicious at the time, but gave him the benefit of the doubt. I do that for Kings players. I want to think the best of them.

But adding that suspicion to his prior behavior, which I was also trying to give him the benefit of the doubt over, and his present behavior in Houston, I have come to my own opinion that he is malingering.

It's really a simple point. And it's totally an opinion. I was just hoping that I could express an admittedly simple opinion without being called "completely idiotic" and "delusional" and having words put in my mouth.

Seriously. I'm bummed at the reception I've gotten here from people I don't know and who don't know me. I was just hoping to join in with fellow Kings fans and have some fun.

 

[Cal-Kings]

Danke!

I do hope you'll rely on my own expression of what I was saying instead of a characterization of it by someone who disagrees with me.

I'd appreciate that. Thanks.

 

[VF21]

I don't either.

I never said he "faked" the injury. I suggested it was possible, IMHO, that he malingered over it. I was suspicious at the time, but gave him the benefit of the doubt. I do that for Kings players. I want to think the best of them.

But adding that suspicion to his prior behavior, which I was also trying to give him the benefit of the doubt over, and his present behavior in Houston, I have come to my own opinion that he is malingering.

It's really a simple point. And it's totally an opinion. I was just hoping that I could express an admittedly simple opinion without being called "completely idiotic" and "delusional" and having words put in my mouth.

Seriously. I'm bummed at the reception I've gotten here from people I don't know and who don't know me. I was just hoping to join in with fellow Kings fans and have some fun.

Cal-Kings - I think you've done a pretty good job explaining your position.

Don't be dissuaded, please. People are passionate here, and a little suspicious of newcomers, but we're really a very good group of Kings fanss.

I have to admit to thinking Bonzi might have malingered a bit, too. But it's something we'll probably never know for sure.

I hope everyone can stop with the name-calling, as it really detracts from the discussions at hand. We're all Kings fans - with the exception of the few Lakers and Mavs fans we've come to care for

I think we can agree to disagree on some points without hostility.

Peace and...

GO KINGS!!!

 

[GoGoGadget]

I do hope you'll rely on my own expression of what I was saying instead of a characterization of it by someone who disagrees with me.

I'd appreciate that. Thanks.

I've read every word of this thread, actually, I was just amused by Brick's summary.

I'm a smart ***, and a bit of a brat... you'll get used to it.

 

[Cal-Kings]

Cal-Kings - I think you've done a pretty good job explaining your position.

Don't be dissuaded, please. People are passionate here, and a little suspicious of newcomers, but we're really a very good group of Kings fanss.

I have to admit to thinking Bonzi might have malingered a bit, too. But it's something we'll probably never know for sure.

I hope everyone can stop with the name-calling, as it really detracts from the discussions at hand. We're all Kings fans - with the exception of the few Lakers and Mavs fans we've come to care for

I think we can agree to disagree on some points without hostility.

Peace and...

GO KINGS!!!

Thank you, VF21! I really needed to hear that.

I know exactly what it is to be suspicious of newcomers. I understand completely.

I'm sure, once people get to know me, they'll trust that I'm not a troll and I'm like everyone else here. I'm passionate about the Kings too and I can get as carried away as anyone.

 

[Cal-Kings]

I've read every word of this thread, actually, I was just amused by Brick's summary.

I'm a smart ***, and a bit of a brat... you'll get used to it.

No problem. I'm sure I'll enjoy your edge when it's not directed at me...

How about ripping a Lakers fan for me next? I'd love that!!

Or more timely, rip Mark Cuban a new one for me!!

 

[Bricklayer]

Actually, that's pretty close. I question Bonzi's integrity. I feel I'm not the only person with this "completely idiotic assersion", but I accept that you feel otherwise.

Let me explain to you very simply:

You think Bonzi is selfish. Fine. There are three sorts of people who feel that way:

1) those who watched Bonzi before he came to the Kings and never were able to get over it
2) revisionists who cheered him wildly but then did the normal Sactown fan hurt puppy routine when he "rejected" them
3) Kevin fans who wanted him out to clear room for their boy

HOWEVER, here is the "idiocy" inherent in your position. a) Bonzi is selfish; b) therefore you accuse Bonzi of doing the absolute WORST thing a selfish individual could ever do for himself in that situation. You acuse soembody of beign out for themself, and then of simultaenously sabotaging themselves. And you accuse it based on absolutely nothing tangible besides one of the 3 possibilities above. I can neatly classify most Bonzi commenters on this board that I know -- you however are new. I am guessing you are a #1. Regardless, your argument does not hold up internally.

 

[Cal-Kings]

Let me explain to you very simply:

You think Bonzi is selfish. Fine. There are three sorts of people who feel that way:

No, I don't think I ever even typed the word "selfish" anywhere in this thread.

I used the words "lacking intregrity". It's a very different characterization. I think he plays hard when it gives him some perceived visibility out there. I think he played hard in the playoffs in a contract year, to get more money. Nothing wrong with that by itself.

And you can claim he's not malingering to this day, but I just would have you ask Houston fans what their perception of Bonzi is.

1) those who watched Bonzi before he came to the Kings and never were able to get over it
2) revisionists who cheered him wildly but then did the normal Sactown fan hurt puppy routine when he "rejected" them
3) Kevin fans who wanted him out to clear room for their boy

HOWEVER, here is the "idiocy" inherent in your position. a) Bonzi is selfish; b) therefore you accuse Bonzi of doing the absolute WORST thing a selfish individual could ever do for himself in that situation. You acuse soembody of beign out for themself, and then of simultaenously sabotaging themselves. And you accuse it based on absolutely nothing tangible besides one of the 3 possibilities above. I can neatly classify most Bonzi commenters on this board that I know -- you however are new. I am guessing you are a #1. Regardless, your argument does not hold up internally.

I've already said that I gave Bonzi the benefit of the doubt when he came here. I said that I was willing to overlook the past, as we Kings fans have done with many players. Webber became one of my all-time favorite Kings. I'm perfectly capable of overlooking the past.

However, I can't suddenly stop evaluating them once they leave. I keep following them. Personally, I'm not that happy with Webber's attitude in Philly these days either.

And with Bonzi, his "malingering" in Houston is just something I can't ignore and I "question" his integrity. Not selfishness. Integrity.

 

[nbrans]

1) those who watched Bonzi before he came to the Kings and never were able to get over it

2) revisionists who cheered him wildly but then did the normal Sactown fan hurt puppy routine when he "rejected" them

3) Kevin fans who wanted him out to clear room for their boy

I would include a 4th category - people who thought he was playing and keeping it together for a contract year (or maybe I fit into the cynically labeled 1st category)

Although to paraphrase Yul from Survivor, I wouldn't necessarily call Bonzi "selifsh," rather I'd call him "self-interested." He gave his all for the team -- I just wondered how much was as a result of his character or as a result of the contract year.

But even given the fact that it was a contract year and everything that happened I was all for giving Bonzi his $38 million. Just not more. Petrie played it the right way, and right now at least it looks like we dodged a bullet.

 

[Cal-Kings]

I would include a 4th category - people who thought he was playing and keeping it together for a contract year (or maybe I fit into the cynically labeled 1st category)

Although to paraphrase Yul from Survivor, I wouldn't necessarily call Bonzi "selifsh," rather I'd call him "self-interested." He gave his all for the team -- I just wondered how much was as a result of his character or as a result of the contract year.

Since the prior criticisms of him were that he didn't play hard all the time, then perhaps (just perhaps) it was a contract year that motivated him to play hard in the playoffs. And to use the malingering groin injury as an excuse to not play much during the regular season. He certainly had hopes of landing a huge contract. And those hopes turned out to be unreasonable expectations.

It's certainly reasonable to question his integrity given all his history and his current situation. That doesn't make it true, it just makes it a reasonable opinion to hold. Not idiotic by any means.

It's also reasonable to assume that Bonzi is of stellar character, wanted to play in every game he missed last year, and right now, really wants to play in Houston but is severely injured. That opinion is also not idiotic. I just don't happen to agree with it.

But even given the fact that it was a contract year and everything that happened I was all for giving Bonzi his $38 million. Just not more. Petrie played it the right way, and right now at least it looks like we dodged a bullet.

Whatever the case was with Bonzi last season, I am personally very happy that he's in Houston right now.

 

[nbrans]

Since the prior criticisms of him were that he didn't play hard all the time, then perhaps (just perhaps) it was a contract year that motivated him to play hard in the playoffs. And to use the malingering groin injury as an excuse to not play much during the regular season. He certainly had hopes of landing a huge contract. And those hopes turned out to be unreasonable expectations.

This part I really don't understand. If he was motivated by a contract year then it would have been idiotic for him to malinger with his injury -- GMs usually don't throw money at guys who show signs of being injury prone. So to me, either 1) he really tried to come back from a bad injury as soon as possible (and that horrendous game against the Jazz where he turned the ball over 27 times after coming back too soon suggested he was trying to play through it) but was possibly playing for a contract year or 2) he malingered his injury and didn't care about the fact that it was a contract year, thereby suggesting that the 27/10 playoffs Bonzi is, possibly the "real" Bonzi, not motivated by the contract year.

Basically I don't see how he could both be motivated by a contract year AND decide to malinger on the injured list. Those two things just don't go together.

 

[Cal-Kings]

This part I really don't understand. If he was motivated by a contract year then it would have been idiotic for him to malinger with his injury -- GMs usually don't throw money at guys who show signs of being injury prone. So to me, either 1) he really tried to come back from a bad injury as soon as possible (and that horrendous game against the Jazz where he turned the ball over 27 times after coming back too soon suggested he was trying to play through it) but was possibly playing for a contract year or 2) he malingered his injury and didn't care about the fact that it was a contract year, thereby suggesting that the 27/10 playoffs Bonzi is, possibly the "real" Bonzi, not motivated by the contract year.

Basically I don't see how he could both be motivated by a contract year AND decide to malinger on the injured list. Those two things just don't go together.

You make a good case.

Except when attributed to someone who might only do what is necessary to get by, ie someone like Randy Moss. Someone who doesn't play hard in every game. That person could have an inflated view of themselves, and think that nobody watches games in Sacramento (too late for most of the country) and everyone watches the playoffs.

He didn't take Petrie's offer because he was so sure there was big money out there for him. He didn't see the reality of the situation.

And maybe that was reasonable. We all remember Bibby getting big money after his playoffs here, although he didn't shine during that regular season.

It could have been reasonable for a player to think only the playoffs mattered.

And I admit, none of us really know Bonzi's state of mind. We're all just making assumptions.

 

[jalfa]

You make a good case.

Except when attributed to someone who might only do what is necessary to get by, ie someone like Randy Moss. Someone who doesn't play hard in every game. That person could have an inflated view of themselves, and think that nobody watches games in Sacramento (too late for most of the country) and everyone watches the playoffs.

He didn't take Petrie's offer because he was so sure there was big money out there for him. He didn't see the reality of the situation.

And maybe that was reasonable. We all remember Bibby getting big money after his playoffs here, although he didn't shine during that regular season.

It could have been reasonable for a player to think only the playoffs mattered.

And I admit, none of us really know Bonzi's state of mind. We're all just making assumptions.

So what you're saying is that Bonzi never really had the intention of staying in Sacramento and assumed that he would get his big payday somewhere else, which would explain why he (as you think) didn't immediately come back when he saw how well Martin was playing, but "saved himself up" for the POs?

 

[Cal-Kings]

So what you're saying is that Bonzi never really had the intention of staying in Sacramento and assumed that he would get his big payday somewhere else, which would explain why he (as you think) didn't immediately come back when he saw how well Martin was playing, but "saved himself up" for the POs?

I don't know. That sounds plausible.

I do think he saved himself for the big stage in the playoffs. The reasons he might have done so we can only guess.