Martin for Ellis?

[Dime Dropper]

Not straight up. Here's what I was thinking, although some of you may find it unrealistic for either or both teams involved.

Sacramento trade:
Mike Bibby
Kevin Martin
Francis Garcia


Sacremento receive:
Adonal Foyle (to make it work)
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Monta Ellis
Andris Biedrins


Would you do this trade? We would get a younger K-Mart (with more upside), a promising big man who has the qualiteies we need, a temporary replacement for Bibby and Foyle to, well, make it work.

I doubt the Warriors would do this though, they seem to be giving up too much of their future. But with Nellie at the helm, I think he could do well with this team as a Phoenix style team and Martin (and Garcia) would certainly thrive in that kind of offense. Bibby of course will be Bibby and give them an extra clutch option in the POs and they would become alot deeper IMHO. I know there will be people who hate this trade for us and vice versa, so feel free to reply with your own variation.

Of course, it ain't gonna happen, but a good trade that I think would help both teams in the direction they're trying to go.

 

[piksi]

no thanks

 

[Dime Dropper]

no thanks

Why not? If we are actually looking to rebuild instead of another first round exit, this is an excellent way to do it. It would also help us get a higher pick.

This trade can't be done anyways because Jesi-blah blah can't be traded again until March.

 

[piksi]

it doesn't make us better or worse

 

[6th]

it doesn't make us better or worse

I agree. And, if you are rebuilding, why trade 2 of the pieces you would want to keep to rebuild with. If you are going to trade both Martin and Garcia, you'd better get a superstar. I like Ellis, but I don't see him becoming a superstar.....just a very good player.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I agree. And, if you are rebuilding, why trade 2 of the pieces you would want to keep to rebuild with. If you are going to trade both Martin and Garcia, you'd better get a superstar. I like Ellis, but I don't see him becoming a superstar.....just a very good player.

I see what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree.

Martin is 24. It's not like he's only 20 or 21. Ellis, IMO, has a higher ceiling i.e he's more athletic, better passer and has more tools to score (although he's not better than Kevin right now). And he's extremely young (about 20 I believe, but I could be wrong so don't quote me on this one).
I don't think Martin will ever be a superstar. Ellis has more chance of becoming a superstar.

I think if we could get Biedrins, then we should definetly do it. He's very young, a good defender for his age, can rebound and block shots well. Exactly what we need. He also has huge potential, not superstar potential, but a brilliant role player potential. Garcia doesn't, IMO. He's 24. Nearly 25. Not very young (quite obviously not old though).

In response to piksi, I don't think this team needs to get better. I think we really need to try to rebuild. Getting them two young studs could be a great move for us in the future. Getting better right now is just going to land us the 8th and an early ticket home with no lottery pick.

 

[x 213 x]

Golden State laughs at us...

1. They wouldn't help a team in their divison, especially a team they might be fighting for a playoff spot with

2. They dont have a need for any single of those players that we are offering besides for KMart maybe

Why take Bibby when they have Baron Davis who is much better than Bibby. They are developing Ellis to be their future at the PG, the kid is going to be a stud, they have no reason to trade him.

Cisco? They already have a better version of Cisco in Pietrus, and add on to that that they have Harrington, Sjax, Barnes, J-Rich, Azibuke(sp)? and maybe someone that I'm forgeting

Biedrins is like 20-21 years old?? He is close to averaging a double double with like 2 blocks. He is their future at the C position, besides you rarely trade big for small expecially when they are so young and full of potential

I just don't see a young developing team trading their two cornerstones for Bibby, Cisco and Kmart...

Look at it from their perspective...they trade Biedrins and Foyle, who do you expect to start at the C for them? Zarko Cabarkapa? Patrick O'bryant?
This trade doesn't make sense on many levels for GS, but the Kings should be all over this...Kevin is good, but Ellis and Biedrins are better

 

[Dime Dropper]

Golden State laughs at us...

1. They wouldn't help a team in their divison, especially a team they might be fighting for a playoff spot with

2. They dont have a need for any single of those players that we are offering besides for KMart maybe

Why take Bibby when they have Baron Davis who is much better than Bibby. They are developing Ellis to be their future at the PG, the kid is going to be a stud, they have no reason to trade him.

Cisco? They already have a better version of Cisco in Pietrus, and add on to that that they have Harrington, Sjax, Barnes, J-Rich, Azibuke(sp)? and maybe someone that I'm forgeting

Biedrins is like 20-21 years old?? He is close to averaging a double double with like 2 blocks. He is their future at the C position, besides you rarely trade big for small expecially when they are so young and full of potential

I just don't see a young developing team trading their two cornerstones for Bibby, Cisco and Kmart...

Look at it from their perspective...they trade Biedrins and Foyle, who do you expect to start at the C for them? Zarko Cabarkapa? Patrick O'bryant?
This trade doesn't make sense on many levels for GS, but the Kings should be all over this...Kevin is good, but Ellis and Biedrins are better

You're right, but other people would still not do it because they think we would be getting the wrong end of the deal. The only thing that I found wrong with your post is that Ellis is a PG. He's a SG. It's his natural position. Not arguing that he's never played there but that was only because there need for a backup, but they have one now. He's a flat out scorer and although undersized, he's still a SG.

 

[x 213 x]

You're right, but other people would still not do it because they think we would be getting the wrong end of the deal. The only thing that I found wrong with your post is that Ellis is a PG. He's a SG. It's his natural position. Not arguing that he's never played there but that was only because there need for a backup, but they have one now. He's a flat out scorer and although undersized, he's still a SG.

He was a SG in his high school days, he may have the shooting guard mentality but the Warriors staff is grooming him to be their PG. He has all the skills needed to be a good floor general, only thing he needs to improve is his 3pt shooting and his turnovers, but then again he is a 21 year old 2nd year player straight out of high school. I definitely see him in the mold of an Arenas/Iverson type of shoot first PG/OG.

 

[Gary]

I agree. And, if you are rebuilding, why trade 2 of the pieces you would want to keep to rebuild with.

you beat me to it.

If we did rebuild I would like to keep our young talent.

 

[Heuge]

Maybe Im a homer but I think Kevin is better then Monta anyway.

 

[SacKings384]

Maybe Im a homer but I think Kevin is better then Monta anyway.

Exactly... Not only that but we're giving up Kevin for Ellis (which is a downgrade in my opinion) we're giving up Bibby for who? Foyle? Biedrins? I mean Biedrins is a good player and all but he is inconsistent and not worth a play of Bibby's caliber. Foyle's contract is just a disgrace to the NBA. Jasikevicus is not very good and an old aging player.

 

[VF21]

Not straight up. Here's what I was thinking, although some of you may find it unrealistic for either or both teams involved.

Sacramento trade:
Mike Bibby
Kevin Martin
Francis Garcia


Sacremento receive:
Adonal Foyle (to make it work)
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Monta Ellis
Andris Biedrins


Would you do this trade? We would get a younger K-Mart (with more upside), a promising big man who has the qualiteies we need, a temporary replacement for Bibby and Foyle to, well, make it work.

I doubt the Warriors would do this though, they seem to be giving up too much of their future. But with Nellie at the helm, I think he could do well with this team as a Phoenix style team and Martin (and Garcia) would certainly thrive in that kind of offense. Bibby of course will be Bibby and give them an extra clutch option in the POs and they would become alot deeper IMHO. I know there will be people who hate this trade for us and vice versa, so feel free to reply with your own variation.

Of course, it ain't gonna happen, but a good trade that I think would help both teams in the direction they're trying to go.

Wouldn't do it. And I strongly doubt either the Kings OR the Warriors would do it. The organization is very enthusiastic about Martin and Garcia. They aren't going to trade them away for what you're suggesting. And that doesn't even address the "nothing for Bibby" portion SacKings 384 touched on.

And don't make too big a deal of Martin and Garcia being 24. That's still young enough to help create a strong foundation in a rebuilding team. Sorry but this proposal gets a "no deal" from me.

 

[IVote4Replay]

Martin is 24. It's not like he's only 20 or 21. Ellis, IMO, has a higher ceiling i.e he's more athletic, better passer and has more tools to score (although he's not better than Kevin right now). And he's extremely young (about 20 I believe, but I could be wrong so don't quote me on this one).
I don't think Martin will ever be a superstar. Ellis has more chance of becoming a superstar.

Man, it seems like you're making Kmart to be an old man... 24 is still WAY young IMHO.. and yeah Ellis has a lot of potential- but Martin does as well- and i could be mistaken, but Martin has a much higher efficiency rating than Ellis does.

We all know that niether team would trade these players- but I think I would still go with Kmart.. Im agreeing to disaggree in that KMart will, in fact be an all-star soon whereas Ellis will need a few more years..

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm one of the few on record who doesn't consider Marting untouchable but there's no way I'd do this. Even if we technically did get the better end of the deal this one doesn't make sense - its not an impact type of deal which means all of the time and investment the organization spent hyping Martin is totally wasted (which will create fan anger, not good right now) and its a division rival which means this will be second guessed for the lengths of a bunch of young careers. Not worth it.

 

[Merdiesel]

No way. Martin is a future super star. Build your team around him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Martin is no future superstar unless you are really really stretching that term. And you don't build your team around him. That said, no thanks on this deal. We give up not only the best, but the TWO best players in the deal, for a bunch of spare parts. Makes no sense. If you are going young, then Martin should be a part of it. If you;re not, and you;re tyring to win now, then this deal makes no sense.

Oh, and BTW, as others have mentioned, Golden State has no need for Bibby or Kevin. Deal just does not make sense.

 

[Packt]

Deal makes no sense for GS when they still have Baron and Richardson on the roster.

 

[tjobrien]

No way. Martin is a future super star. Build your team around him.

Please. Martin is maybe a future all-star. Maybe. Remember, not even Bibby ever made an all-star team. We all love Kevin, but some here really overinflate his value and potential. He's 24. That's not old, but it's not really young either. What we see MAY be what he got with him, tough to say at this point. He needs to work on his defense and he needs to be more aggressive offensively to become an all-star. No way is he a future super star.

 

[beb0p]

Not straight up. Here's what I was thinking, although some of you may find it unrealistic for either or both teams involved.

Sacramento trade:
Mike Bibby
Kevin Martin
Francis Garcia


Sacremento receive:
Adonal Foyle (to make it work)
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Monta Ellis
Andris Biedrins

We give up way too much for a role playing center and an undersized SG.

 

[Dime Dropper]

You guys are probably right, although there's alot of people here over estimating K-Marts (who I love and is my favourite player, knew he'd be this good from the start) potential and how good Ellis and Biedrins are/could be.



What about this deal with Phoenix.

Kings deal:

Ron Artest
Ronnie Price

Kings receive:
Kurt Thomas
Atl 1st round 07 pick

Now this deal would only work if Phoenix thinks that this deal would defenitely push them over the top. They could play Ron at PF in their system and Marion at SF, his natural position, or vice versa. They may not be willing to give up such a good pick in such a strong draft though. But they have to ask themselves: could anyone they draft turn out as good as Ron, and if so, will they have such an excellent supporting cast. Obviously I'm assuming Atl doesn't land a top-3 pick.

Thoughts.

 

[IVote4Replay]

There's no way I'd give up Artest for Kurt Thomas. I'd just feel like I'd be GIVING him away...



No way..

 

[BMiller52]

You guys are probably right, although there's alot of people here over estimating K-Marts (who I love and is my favourite player, knew he'd be this good from the start) potential and how good Ellis and Biedrins are/could be.



What about this deal with Phoenix.

Kings deal:

Ron Artest
Ronnie Price

Kings receive:
Kurt Thomas
Atl 1st round 07 pick

Now this deal would only work if Phoenix thinks that this deal would defenitely push them over the top. They could play Ron at PF in their system and Marion at SF, his natural position, or vice versa. They may not be willing to give up such a good pick in such a strong draft though. But they have to ask themselves: could anyone they draft turn out as good as Ron, and if so, will they have such an excellent supporting cast. Obviously I'm assuming Atl doesn't land a top-3 pick.

Thoughts.

Could we end up flipping Kurt Thomas for an expiring contract? If we could I'd probably do it. I like this deal.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

atlanta's pick is pretty high. artest is a ticking time bomb ready to go off any minute.

 

[VF21]

atlanta's pick is pretty high. artest is a ticking time bomb ready to go off any minute.

I don't think you can say that right now... Artest has been the consummate professional.

 

[beb0p]

The Sun would probably love to have Artest and likely could afford to give up Atlanta's pick. But they won't do this deal because they absolutely need Kurt Thomas in the playoffs.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Unfortunately, I think (Im actually not 100% sure) Kurt Thomas is the only on we can take to make it work. I think it would be worth it though, we'd have a high atl pick and our pick would be even higher than it is now due to us being without Ron. If we're trying to re-build then this would be great. Just not sure whether Phoenix would be willing to give it up, but then again you can see why they would. They have a bunch of guys in their prime (Nash, Marion, Burke ) and with Ron they would be favourites (IMO) as they would have 3 defensive beasts in Amare, Ron and Marion while gaining even more offense in Ron.

Kind of hurts my head to think about because it's impossible to know whether they'd bite, too many factors such as would they want to keep there pick and hope he pans out, in which case they'd be good for years to come when pairing him with Amare.


I'd certainly do it though, not going anywhere with this team.