Martin, Evans, Barnes

[SDKing]

If the Kings were to re-sign Evans and Barnes next year, do you think the three of these guys could develop into a strong core of players for the Kings over the next couple of years? They certainly have the heart and the hustle and are definitely fan favorites, but could their skills grow enough? What do you think?

 

[LPKingsFan]

I do think they could emerge as a hustling compliment to the softer core of Bibby, Miller and Peja. Unfortunately, there's still no number one superstar go-to guy.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think they are the type of players that the Kings need. They are role players that all have something special to them. Barnes is a great hustle guy, busts his butt on D, and is a top notch passer. Evans is another guy that hustles, is a strong rebounder, quick, a jaw dropping leaper, and works on D. I think those two guys are a bit more polished than Kevin Martin at present time but with playing time Kevin could possibly become a very important piece to the Kings future. He is athletic, long, tall, and a natural scorer. Once he gets the hang of the NBA game, which he will, he will be a major component to any of the Kings championship hopes.

The Kings got a steal in last years draft.

 

[AriesMar27]

eh.... they are nice to have on a team just for the fun of it but they dont make the kings contenders.... they would still need a go-to-guy... that should be peja but it isnt due to him being a soft *** euro....

 

[kings52/23]

i think those three would be a good group of guys to have, but i might be biased a lil cuz im a huge martin and barnes fan

 

[John Galt]

Having ONE guy like Evans, Barnes, Martin to come in and give a few energy minutes from time to time is cool, like Jon Barry used to do.

But a CORE made up of this caliber player... well that is a truly horrifying spectre... I can't contemplate it.

Of course, if they go back to 1998 ticket prices and pack the roster with a bunch of young "potential guys"... that's cool with me. But be serious.. these are role players, not a core.

Positive Frank

 

[SDKing]

But a CORE made up of this caliber player... well that is a truly horrifying spectre... I can't contemplate it.

A horrifying ghost? what do you mean? Explain please.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Having ONE guy like Evans, Barnes, Martin to come in and give a few energy minutes from time to time is cool, like Jon Barry used to do.

Technically, we DO only have ONE guy like Evans, Martin or Barnes at the moment.

 

[Bricklayer]

A core? Not unless you're the Hawks. But they are the sort of hustling role players that you need to surround star players with (actually other than Mo to really fit that role they need to work on their outside shooting). Be nice to have them back to be a group of hustlers. But in order for that class of player to be really effective you need to have a major star or stars to create opportunities for them, and that's what we don't have right now.

 

[Warhawk]

A core? Not unless you're the Hawks. But they are the sort of hustling role players that you need to surround star players with (actually other than Mo to really fit that role they need to work on their outside shooting). Be nice to have them back to be a group of hustlers. But in order for that class of player to be really effective you need to have a major star or stars to create opportunities for them, and that's what we don't have right now.

Agreed - I think they could all be good to great bench players with more time to develop. They show great heart and determination and are not afraid to play some D.

 

[SDKing]

what specifically then takes a player to the next level of play? Many of you mention that these three are role players, but isn't everyone on the team a role player? Are the so called stars just born with more talent, or is it something that a hardworking player can acquire?

 

[John Galt]

A horrifying ghost? what do you mean? Explain please.

You are correct - I misused the word. I kind of thought it meant a haunting nightmare...very loosely along these lines:

2.spectre - a mental representation of some haunting experience; "he looked like he had seen a ghost"; "it aroused specters from his past"



However, Positive Frank will not be drawn into a furious power driven argument over vocabulary... you win.

Anyway, I don't think those guys are exceptional ballplayers.

Any yes, I think the exceptional ballplayers are gifted with more talent, or at least more height and girth (Shaq/Wilt)

 

[albeitrue]

I wonder too - why players of the caliber of Evans, for instance, may not see much playing time behind a "star" 2. How are these guys supposed to excel if they don't get sufficient PT? It's a puzzle.

Martin did not get enough PT to even evaulate him, in my estimation. He's definitely got potential but whether or not it can be realized in Kings system is yet to be seen. It's only gonna be his second year, hopefully he gets opportunities to earn trust and PT.

Barnes is a pretty solid defender and scrapper, but he seems to lack confidence on offense, making him not so reliable.

Evans is my fav of the three. Defensive mind set, extremely atheletic and not timid on the perimeter, plus I like his attitude off the court as well. His experience beyond college ball is apparent in his game and I think he can make a difference at the 2.

That being said, they are not yet core players, lack of experience (not necessarily talent) makes that so. But given the experience they could certainly come of age on Kings, if that is the direction Petrie is going. It may be worth the wait for us, but I doubt it would satisfy Kings front office. We don't need an experiment, we need a championship!

 

[Bricklayer]

what specifically then takes a player to the next level of play? Many of you mention that these three are role players, but isn't everyone on the team a role player? Are the so called stars just born with more talent, or is it something that a hardworking player can acquire?

Its something you are born with.

Matt Barnes can spend 24 hours a day in the gym for the next decade and he will NEVER be a star. Just the way it is. Everyone is NOT born equal. Only one of that trio with the potential to be something more than a role player is Martin, but he's got some considerable obstacles to overcome (bad form on his shot, bad body) and is not as well suited for the role player position as is a Mo Evans.

In any case, they are nice style players to have around if you have a star to make it all work, but we don't. We're stuck in an icky accumulation of talent mode where we have to try to wear you down with bunches of average players all on the court together. Lacking a great player or players who can dominate action, we depend on everybody on the floor trying to divy up those shots and stats, and that makes role players a bit problematic. Basically our "stars" aren't good enough to cover up for the role players' limitations. They have a hard enough time just taking care of their own business, let alone creating opportunities for limited teammates.

 

[chelle]

In any case, they are nice style players to have around if you have a star to make it all work, but we don't. We're stuck in an icky accumulation of talent mode where we have to try to wear you down with bunches of average players all on the court together. Lacking a great player or players who can dominate action, we depend on everybody on the floor trying to divy up those shots and stats, and that makes role players a bit problematic. Basically our "stars" aren't good enough to cover up for the role players' limitations. They have a hard enough time just taking care of their own business, let alone creating opportunities for limited teammates.

Up until this afternoon, I would have argeed totally with this. What changed my mind you ask? Ok, you didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway. I was watching some old games I have. (I know we are not supposed to tape them. I'm seeking help for my problem as we speak.) I watched some from this past season and from the season before. At times in the games from '03-'04, we had Bibby, Peja, and Miller on the the floor WITHOUT Webb, Vlade, or Doug. And you know what? WE WERE GOOD. I had forgotten that. The team was playing together and enjoying it. They were encouraging one another, passing, DEFENDING, and making shots. PEJA was diving for loose balls. Mike was staying in front of his man. Although I never put much stock in what the commentators say, they were talking about how impressive we were on the DEFENSIVE end of the floor. Then they were raving about our offense. All of this was WITHOUT Webb, Doug, and Vlade on the floor.
I am not saying that we do not have work to do to be contenders again. Without a doubt Petrie has his work cut out for him this summer. I have just decided to not "throw the baby out with the bathwater."

I was ready to say scap it all and start over because we do not have a snowball's chance to do anything with any of the players we have now.
Then I watched them again - really watched them. Admittedly, it was with my heart as much as my eyes. They had that . . . spark, for lack of a better word. They can get it again.

I choose to believe that Peja's bad season will not be repeated, that Bibby will improve his defense, and Miller will stay healthier next season.
Maybe, just maybe, Martin, Evan,and Barnes (if we resign them) can provide that spark and help return the joy they had in playing. I do not think that any of those three will be stars next season. We do not need them to be that. We need them to REBOUND, DEFEND, and MAKE HUSTLE plays. I think they can do that.

Even simply watching old games featuring current players has made me more hopeful about next season and for the first time since "The Trade," I actually felt a stirring of GOOD passion and excitement about the future.
It has taken me since Feb/March to feel it, PLEASE don't burst my bubble to harshly. It's fragile, but it's all I've got at the moment. Goodness, I sound like I need a self-help group!

 

[Bricklayer]

You may "choose" to believe whatever you wish of course. I personally choose to believe in the Easter Bunny, and its about as legit. People work entirely too hard trying to manufacture false hope as if the world will crumble without it. Not really -- reality is cool too. And while we may be powerless as fans, a good life lesson is that you have to be able to admit there is a problem before you can go about fixing it. Never been sure of what to make of the ostrich-sticking-its-head-in-the-sand myth, but I can tell you right now what its a formula for -- a lot of dead ostriches.

P.S. As an aside, I'm not even going to go into "Peja diving on the floor for loose balls". Yeah right. Probably forgot to tie his shoes and tripped over the laces.

 

[chelle]

You may "choose" to believe whatever you wish of course. I personally choose to believe in the Easter Bunny, and its about as legit. People work entirely too hard trying to manufacture false hope as if the world will crumble without it. Not really -- reality is cool too. And while we may be powerless as fans, a good life lesson is that you have to be able to admit there is a problem before you can go about fixing it. Never been sure of what to make of the ostrich-sticking-its-head-in-the-sand myth, but I can tell you right now what its a formula for -- a lot of dead ostriches.

P.S. As an aside, I'm not even going to go into "Peja diving on the floor for loose balls". Yeah right. Probably forgot to tie his shoes and tripped over the laces.

Just check back with me tomorrow. I'll be back in reality. That is what the off season is for, didn't you knw? This is when I get to spend some time in The Land of Make Believe, then go to Never Never Land, Fanasty Island, etc before I have to be realistic. Trust me, I know as well as anybody the shape we are actually in right now. When it is 2 o'clock int he morning and I can't sleep. I can make myself believe just about anything.

AS for Martin, Evans, and Barnes, I think it is still too early to be sure about thier potential.

 

[SDKing]

However, Positive Frank will not be drawn into a furious power driven argument over vocabulary... you win.

My apologies, I wasn't trying to offend you.

 

[SDKing]

Its something you are born with.

I have a hard time believing that. MJ was cut from his high school basketball team, but worked endlessly to become the player he was. I'm not saying that any of those guys are going to be anywhere near his talent, but I do think that hard work accounts for a lot. Some people are born with more athletic ability yes, but I don't know if it is specific to basketball. I know that nobody on our roster is a superstar, but there are a few who are above average players, and like Chelle said, when they play as team, they're very good. I want to see more of the "team" sport. More passing, like the old days, More help on defsense, like, well I don't know when that was, but more of it.

 

[Bricklayer]

I have a hard time believing that.

Again, people can believe whatever they want, but that's not the way it works. In particular not when you reach the level of the NBA occupied by the 300 or so best basketball players on the planet (minus a few scattered here and there elsewhere around the globe), fully mature adults and elite athletes who put in hundreds if not thousands of hours of time into their sport every year. People do get better, add things to their game, get a handle on their talent, but almost never do you see an adult player suddenly spring forward and blossom into a much more talented player. The talent is either there, or its not. And if it is, its not invisible -- you see it in however raw the form. Some guys underachieve and never live up to it. Others make the most of it. But nobody suddenly works their way into a new wellspring of talent above what they were born with.

Matt Barnes does NOT have specail talent. Indeed, his personal history seems to suggest that it was the very act of getting serious and starting to realize his potential that even got him into the league. But no star is he, no matter how hard he works. Mo Evans has a classic roleplayer's game -- can't create for himself or others, scraps, finishes well, and can hit a standstill jumper. He can become better at a few of those things, or at least more consistent. But as he passes into the second half of his 20's he's not going to suddenly develop abilities he never had. Kevin is the guy with the most talent there -- the ability to handle and create his shot. You can see it, even if its still raw enough to be ineffective much of the time. Of those guys he's the one player with the potential to average 15ppg, albeit the chances of that may be fairly low.

We are NOT born equal, or even very close to it. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses that transcend effort or work. You can study higher math all your life and never once have the insight to come up with the Theory of Relativity. Similarly you can put in 2000 hrs of shooting work every year and never acheive the silky jumper of Peja Stojakovic. You either have the gift or you don't. Our three scrappers do not. They are NBA caliber players and can contribute. But its silly to sit around waiting for them to magcially turn into super-talented players. That's not how it works, and all the wishful thinking in the world isn't going to suddenly endow a player with a great leap forward in talent.

 

[thesanityannex]

. Similarly you can put in 2000 hrs of shooting work every year and never acheive the silky jumper of Peja Stojakovic. .

But, you could acheive the defensive skills of Stojakovic.

 

[DocHolliday]

Oh forgot to come here and post. The Sunday of memorial day weekend Matt Barnes was @ Shakers neighborhood pub. I just called out to him for a sec, and told him I hope he comes back to Sac this next season. He stopped turned around and said, "Thanks man.", and shook my hand. I let him go after that. Didn't want to bug him cause he was there to relax and hang out like everyone else.

 

[thesanityannex]

did you offer to buy him a drink? or vice versa?

 

[16to93]

Oh forgot to come here and post. The Sunday of memorial day weekend Matt Barnes was @ Shakers neighborhood pub. I just called out to him for a sec, and told him I hope he comes back to Sac this next season. He stopped turned around and said, "Thanks man.", and shook my hand. I let him go after that. Didn't want to bug him cause he was there to relax and hang out like everyone else.

Wow, thats so cool

 

[VF21]

I would love to see Evans and Barnes rejoin with Kevin on the team next year. I think they'll fit in quite nicely with Bibby and Garnett.

 

[Padrino]

I would love to see Evans and Barnes rejoin with Kevin on the team next year. I think they'll fit in quite nicely with Bibby and Garnett.

it sure is wonderful to dream, isnt it? but hot damn...what a fantastic dream it is!

 

[thesanityannex]

Evans, Barnes, and Martin would definitely be a good young group to keep around and develop. Forgetting all the big "dream trades", I really hope they can keep and get (barnes) these guys.

 

[VF21]

it sure is wonderful to dream, isnt it? but hot damn...what a fantastic dream it is!

Welcome to VF21WORLD!

Fantastic dreams a specialty!!!



Seriously, I would love to see Evans and Barnes back in the fold. I think they can develop into very good role players. I think Martin might be able to develop into more than that, given the opportunity. I do know he's working very hard already this summer.

I also liked what Matt had to say about working with a shooting coach, etc. The kid has HEART and he's a warrior. He may not be the Warrior King I've spoken of, but he's a real warrior and you need those to follow the Warrior King.

 

[thesanityannex]

What are the chances we resign Barnes? hopefully high?

 

[Padrino]

Welcome to VF21WORLD!

Fantastic dreams a specialty!!!



Seriously, I would love to see Evans and Barnes back in the fold. I think they can develop into very good role players. I think Martin might be able to develop into more than that, given the opportunity. I do know he's working very hard already this summer.

I also liked what Matt had to say about working with a shooting coach, etc. The kid has HEART and he's a warrior. He may not be the Warrior King I've spoken of, but he's a real warrior and you need those to follow the Warrior King.

hehe...i was actually talkin about the kevin garnett thing, but yes, i totally agree with ya about evans, martin, and barnes. they fit very well into this team as role players. whether they all return next season is still in question, but any two of them would be great additions to the bench.