Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)

This just needs to stop.
How does it need to stop? The statement wasn’t wrong pres draft we he was compared to Hezonja and other scrubs who didn’t match anything he did in euro league. Than add people saying it’s not hard to dominate there cause it’s a bunch of cast off nba players. That’s minimizing his euro career and that was done in every forum
 
Not even the first big play the Blazers blew in this game.

You give a kid that much space and he's gonna score.
I know, you're right.

But with a 3 point lead and only .5 remaining, I just can't for the life of me understand why a professional NBA coach would think it's a good idea to guard or have a defender anywhere near a player lined up inside the arc (especially well inside the arc). You want to throw it to him in that spot? Go ahead!! My defenders will be waiting where we know you HAVE to go eventually. Hell, in reality the defense has the HUGE advantage of only having to defend half of the half court!! Why give that advantage away??

I'd never guard the inbound pass and use that defender to deny a pass to the short corner. I'd have another defender in the other corner. If a pass goes there, it isn't getting there uncontested and the odds are the ball is tipped in some fashion before gather and a shot can occur.

The other 3 defenders should be equally spaced around the arc facing the inbounder and watching his eyes like a DB does to a QB. The distance from baseline to the arc is such that there's time to react, move and contest the pass and make it extremely difficult to gather and get the shot off in time. If they throw it further beyond the arc (say to 30 feet or so) I'll take my chances with someone gathering that high velocity pass and getting the shot off in under .5 and making it from that distance.

Lastly, any offensive player inside the arc does not matter and just gives me 5 defending 4 or 5 defending 3 out beyond the arc, which only increases my chances of deflecting the inbound pass from that distance.

I'm far from a basketball expert. But even I understand that.

What Portland did with the man face guarding Luka was ok as long as they backed it up with Lillard defending the pass into the corner -- instead of just standing near the basket in real estate that posed absolutely no danger to the Trailblazers.

At some point this season, the KINGS will likely be in a similar situation and I certainly hope they are smarter about it.
 
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VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
How does it need to stop? The statement wasn’t wrong pres draft we he was compared to Hezonja and other scrubs who didn’t match anything he did in euro league. Than add people saying it’s not hard to dominate there cause it’s a bunch of cast off nba players. That’s minimizing his euro career and that was done in every forum
Read the rest of the thread and exchange between me and sergmatt. It's pretty self-explanatory.
 
Maybe it's because I'm sleep deprived but what the **** does this even mean?

"Everyone who says they like Luka but isn't 120% gushing praise on him is a liar and actually hates him"?
Check out your own posts. Last one was about how the Mavs feel to have passed on JJJ. Seriously?
Now I repeat, let's focus on his defense... in the league where the MVP is James Harden and not Kawhi Leonard.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Check out your own posts. Last one was about how the Mavs feel to have passed on JJJ. Seriously?
Now I repeat, let's focus on his defense... in the league where the MVP is James Harden and not Kawhi Leonard.
Seriously? Nope. It was a joke, an attempt at humor.
 
Hell, in reality the defense has the HUGE advantage of only having to defend half of the half court!! Why give that advantage away??
One other huge factor I neglected to mention when defending a tying 3 point attempt with a second or less remaining is that the defense is already playing 5 on 4 since the inbounder can't possibly be involved in the play beyond the inbound pass itself. So when the offense lines up 1 (or more) players well inside the arc, the defense is then playing 5 on 3 or 2 while only having to defend half of the half court.

A quick catch and shoot should never happen unless it's from 30 feet or further. It really should be zone defense, not man, at that point. You know where the pass has to go and just play the ball.
 
Well this is certainly an opinion.

Here's my thing with Luka. Nothing he's been doing has exceeded my expectations. Now it maybe because I had ridiculously high expectations of the dude in the first place and that's why I wanted to draft him (seriously, go back to before the draft and read my several hundred posts worth of praise for the guy).

Luka has been awesomely crafty on offense, bad on defense (whether due to lack of effort or conditioning, the fact that one of the better defensive bigs in the league and a bunch of solid 3-and-D dudes are around him can only mask so much), and also going to win rookie of the year. None of this was outside of my expectations for the dude.

I'm not trying to come off antagonistic. I'm just trying to have a semi-reasoned conversation about one of the more unique prospects to come through the league in a couple of years beyond a surface "HEY GUYS LUKA IS THE GREATEST OKAY BYE FIRE VLADE!" level.
I also loved Luka, wanted him, and expected him to be a shoe-in for rookie of the year. I was pretty upset with drafting Marvin until I saw him play with Fox for the first time.

I just feel like we are a more complete team with the direction we chose and had a coherent vision all along (for better or worse). But I suspect if we drafted Luka we'd all be swooning over him while debating which of our current core pieces to ship off to better accommodate him, the way DSJ suddenly sucks now.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
It's embarrassing really. Does it really make someone less of a Kings fan to admit that another player is good or made an amazing play?

Everything doesn't have to be either/or
Counterpoint: that statement can be turned around. It can just as easily be pointed out that "Everything doesn't have to be either/or" also means that it doesn't have to have either been a clutch basket or bad defense. It can be both, and it actually was both, and aside from the fact that it agitates some people, there nothing wrong with pointing out one aspect while not pointing out the other, especially when there's going to be no shortage of people to point out the other.

I do question whether there would be as much push back for people criticizing the defense over praising the shot, if the shot had been hit by Harrison Barnes, or JJ Barea?
 
All good points some of which I agree with and some I dont. This thread is in the general NBA section though which is not where most of the members hang out.

I'll ask you this though. Does Tyreke Evans still play for the Kings?

There is a thread on this sub-forum dedicated to him this year. It gets very little action and almost all of it comes from Slim.

Personally I think Tyreke Evans is not very good and never was. Always thought he was overrated. Never liked his style of play. I could go into that thread like a jackass and start saying these things about Tyreke but what would it accomplish other than starting an unnecessary argument?

For all those that dislike Luka so much it just discussing him in general....what's stopping them from showing the same restraint?
There is a major difference about the Tyreke thread versus this one. In this thread there has been a decent amount of both Bagley bashing as well as Vlade bashing and that is where I take my umbrage. If there wasnt the constant narrative being pushed that "Vlade is gonna lose his job over this pick" and "Welp looking more and more like the Kings chose the wrong player at 2" then there would be no issue here. Since that is not the case.....
 
Counterpoint: that statement can be turned around....

I do question whether there would be as much push back for people criticizing the defense over praising the shot, if the shot had been hit by Harrison Barnes, or JJ Barea?
To quote a great poster, that statement can be turned around. I do question whether there would be as much of criticizing the defense if the shot has been hit by Harrison Barnes, or JJBarea?

EDIT: And just to be clear, the answer to both questions is "no" in my opinion. This is the Doncic thread and this is the KingsFans.com
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
All good points some of which I agree with and some I dont. This thread is in the general NBA section though which is not where most of the members hang out.

I'll ask you this though. Does Tyreke Evans still play for the Kings?

There is a thread on this sub-forum dedicated to him this year. It gets very little action and almost all of it comes from Slim.

Personally I think Tyreke Evans is not very good and never was. Always thought he was overrated. Never liked his style of play. I could go into that thread like a jackass and start saying these things about Tyreke but what would it accomplish other than starting an unnecessary argument?

For all those that dislike Luka so much it just discussing him in general....what's stopping them from showing the same restraint?
FWIW, I would not be arguing with you over Tyreke Evans. I've already done that song-and-dance, mostly with @Gary, for Evans' first three years as a King. I've seen those movies, and I don't need to watch the sequels. If you go into that thread to criticize Evans, I'm just going to ignore you, and keep posting about him. I'm not going to give you safe passage from anyone else whom may be spoiling for a fight, but you won't get one from me.

Speaking with my "mod hat" on, my feelings about this thread remain unchanged from when I posted about it Saturday, but I guess I'll elaborate a little: I think that this thread serves a purpose, and as long as the people who are posting about Doncic aren't breaking any board rules, and don't go into #KingsRap harassing people with this, I don't see what the big deal is. If you want to use this thread to give testimonial to Luka Doncic, knock yourselves out. If you want to use this thread to campaign for how you want every poster on KingsFans.com to "give Luka credit," knock yourselves out. I think you're tilting at windmills on that one, but that's not my crusade. Some Kings fans who consider themselves ride-or-die for the Kings want the conversation to be centered on the Kings' current success, and for Doncic stans to appreciate what the Kings have, and stop dwelling on what the Kings don't have, but I don't think that's reasonable.

That being said, the aforementioned Doncic stans appear to want the ROD Kings fans to not post in this thread at all, unless they are giving Luka the credit they think he deserves, and I don't think that's reasonable, either. The ROD's aren't breaking any rules by posting in here (I mean, @Kangztillidie has been kind of a habitual line-stepper, but even he has mostly stayed inbounds); I don't know how healthy or productive it is to keep clicking on a thread that you know is going to annoy you before you even read it, but that's not my crusade, either. I'm the last person who's going to criticize another poster for "looking for a reason to get into an argument," so to speak (s/o to @John Galt).

What does have to stop is making it personal: one poster lowkey implied that Doncic critics on this board are all a bunch of low-bottom haters (inferiority complex), while another poster (before the post was edited by a mod) referred to Doncic stans by a remark that is considered gender derrogatory. That **** needs to end, immediately. If you can't articulate your feelings without criticizing other posters, then you need to push yourself away from the keyboard and/or set down your device, take a few deep breaths, and then come back and try again in a few minutes, before you hit "Post reply."
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
To quote a great poster, that statement can be turned around. I do question whether there would be as much of criticizing the defense if the shot has been hit by Harrison Barnes, or JJBarea?

EDIT: And just to be clear, the answer to both questions is "no" in my opinion. This is the Doncic thread and this is the KingsFans.com
I agree, with a caveat: there wouldn't be as much criticizing the defense, because there wouldn't have been as much praise of the shot, in the first place. My primary objection would be over the suggestion that the criticism was levied by someone whose posting history hasn't proven that they are consistent about such evaluations.
 
I'll be curious to see how the narrative around Luka Doncic is shaped as his career progresses. He's got loads of talent and skill to match, but I still maintain he's playing for a low-key terrible team, and that always has an impact on shaping the narrative. The Mavericks sport the league's worst road record at 2-14. They've been impressive at home, of course, which has offset their extremely poor road play, but they've also had one of the NBA's cushiest schedules in the first third of the season. That's about to change. Despite losing four straight, their schedule doesn't get easier as they head into the new year. The next two months are an absolute minefield. I've said it before, but I honestly believe they're headed for a plunge down the standings, no matter how excellent Luka's level of play remains.

None of this would be worth noting, except the Mavericks dealt their 2019 first rounder in order to move up to draft Doncic in the first place. It's top-5 protected, so if they really sink down to the league's basement, it may not matter. But as deeply skeptical as I am of their playoff aspirations, I also don't think they're bottom-five bad. I expect their 2019 first rounder to confer to Atlanta. And after that, the cupboard's rather bare. Harrison Barnes is a solid piece. So is Deandre Jordan. But Doncic/Barnes/Jordan does not a "Big Three" make. Maybe Dennis Smith Jr. finds his mojo this season. Or maybe he has a third year leap next season. Either way, the Mavs kinda need DSJ to develop into a second star. If their recent track record in free agency is any indication, they will struggle to attract the kind of talent that will make a difference.

All of this is to say, I'm curious about just how good Luka really is. I'm also curious how good his most ardent fans believe he'll be. Is he Lebron James good? That is, will he be able to carry a thoroughly below-average squad into the playoffs all on his own? If that's the case, then yeah, the Kings (as well as the Suns, the Grizzlies, and the Hawks) all made a huge mistake passing on him. Or is Luka Doncic only Demarcus Cousins good? That is, will he evince an otherworldly kind of talent that the NBA marvels at, while never lifting his team to greater heights? If he's in that tier, then it's not exactly a fireable offense to have passed on him, as good as he looks during his rookie season. Time will tell, of course.

Ya know, it's funny, a lot of the pre-draft hype machine was practically begging for Luka to get drafted by any team except the Kings. Sacramento is an NBA backwater with an ignominious history of futility attached to its reputation. He'd languish on that franchise and never live up to his potential, they said. Yet as a member of the Dallas Mavericks, I do have to wonder if he'll end up a big stats/bad team kind of player. They're a well-coached ball club. Rick Carlisle squeezes every ounce of defensive potential he can from his rosters. These Mavs are playing pretty damn well on that end, considering their make-up. But the West is insanely competitive these days, even moreso than it's been across the last decade. They're going to need more talent, but it's going to be difficult for them to acquire it. They're asset poor.

I mentioned Demarcus Cousins earlier. Part of me actually expects the Mavericks to sign him this off-season. If they renounce all of their own free agents, they'll have enough cap room to offer the max to one guy (a second superstar would have to take a paycut), and I just don't see Durant or Leonard or Irving heading for Dallas, and I certainly don't see more than one star heading there. My guess is Mark Cuban will end up throwing money at whoever he can get a meeting with in the tiers below players like Durant. That's just the Mavericks' way. But a Doncic/Cousins pairing is not uninteresting, should Cousins return to even 80% of the player he was before injury. Anyway, this is all idle speculation, and I'm not really prognosticating here. Just loosing some stray thoughts into the ether.
 
I'll be curious to see how the narrative around Luka Doncic is shaped as his career progresses. He's got loads of talent and skill to match, but I still maintain he's playing for a low-key terrible team, and that always has an impact on shaping the narrative. The Mavericks sport the league's worst road record at 2-14. They've been impressive at home, of course, which has offset their extremely poor road play, but they've also had one of the NBA's cushiest schedules in the first third of the season. That's about to change. Despite losing four straight, their schedule doesn't get easier as they head into the new year. The next two months are an absolute minefield. I've said it before, but I honestly believe they're headed for a plunge down the standings, no matter how excellent Luka's level of play remains.

None of this would be worth noting, except the Mavericks dealt their 2019 first rounder in order to move up to draft Doncic in the first place. It's top-5 protected, so if they really sink down to the league's basement, it may not matter. But as deeply skeptical as I am of their playoff aspirations, I also don't think they're bottom-five bad. I expect their 2019 first rounder to confer to Atlanta. And after that, the cupboard's rather bare. Harrison Barnes is a solid piece. So is Deandre Jordan. But Doncic/Barnes/Jordan does not a "Big Three" make. Maybe Dennis Smith Jr. finds his mojo this season. Or maybe he has a third year leap next season. Either way, the Mavs kinda need DSJ to develop into a second star. If their recent track record in free agency is any indication, they will struggle to attract the kind of talent that will make a difference.

All of this is to say, I'm curious about just how good Luka really is. I'm also curious how good his most ardent fans believe he'll be. Is he Lebron James good? That is, will he be able to carry a thoroughly below-average squad into the playoffs all on his own? If that's the case, then yeah, the Kings (as well as the Suns, the Grizzlies, and the Hawks) all made a huge mistake passing on him. Or is Luka Doncic only Demarcus Cousins good? That is, will he evince an otherworldly kind of talent that the NBA marvels at, while never lifting his team to greater heights? If he's in that tier, then it's not exactly a fireable offense to have passed on him, as good as he looks during his rookie season. Time will tell, of course.

Ya know, it's funny, a lot of the pre-draft hype machine was practically begging for Luka to get drafted by any team except the Kings. Sacramento is an NBA backwater with an ignominious history of futility attached to its reputation. He'd languish on that franchise and never live up to his potential, they said. Yet as a member of the Dallas Mavericks, I do have to wonder if he'll end up a big stats/bad team kind of player. They're a well-coached ball club. Rick Carlisle squeezes every ounce of defensive potential he can from his rosters. These Mavs are playing pretty damn well on that end, considering their make-up. But the West is insanely competitive these days, even moreso than it's been across the last decade. They're going to need more talent, but it's going to be difficult for them to acquire it. They're asset poor.

I mentioned Demarcus Cousins earlier. Part of me actually expects the Mavericks to sign him this off-season. If they renounce all of their own free agents, they'll have enough cap room to offer the max to one guy (a second superstar would have to take a paycut), and I just don't see Durant or Leonard or Irving heading for Dallas, and I certainly don't see more than one star heading there. My guess is Mark Cuban will end up throwing money at whoever he can get a meeting with in the tiers below players like Durant. That's just the Mavericks' way. But a Doncic/Cousins pairing is not uninteresting, should Cousins return to even 80% of the player he was before injury. Anyway, this is all idle speculation, and I'm not really prognosticating here. Just loosing some stray thoughts into the ether.
I reluctantly came back to this thread with one eye closed, but man this is a great post. Sums up where I am with Luka. I still have a little regret in my stomach, and I’m super impressed with him, but realize the hype machine is working overdrive (I think I get too much Ringer content). I personally don’t feel the decision to pass on Luka by the Kings will be looked at as a colossal mistake in 3 years (ie. a generational talent for the ages), but always more of a “what if”. Interesting to see how it plays out long term.
 
I'll be curious to see how the narrative around Luka Doncic is shaped as his career progresses. He's got loads of talent and skill to match, but I still maintain he's playing for a low-key terrible team, and that always has an impact on shaping the narrative. The Mavericks sport the league's worst road record at 2-14. They've been impressive at home, of course, which has offset their extremely poor road play, but they've also had one of the NBA's cushiest schedules in the first third of the season. That's about to change. Despite losing four straight, their schedule doesn't get easier as they head into the new year. The next two months are an absolute minefield. I've said it before, but I honestly believe they're headed for a plunge down the standings, no matter how excellent Luka's level of play remains.

None of this would be worth noting, except the Mavericks dealt their 2019 first rounder in order to move up to draft Doncic in the first place. It's top-5 protected, so if they really sink down to the league's basement, it may not matter. But as deeply skeptical as I am of their playoff aspirations, I also don't think they're bottom-five bad. I expect their 2019 first rounder to confer to Atlanta. And after that, the cupboard's rather bare. Harrison Barnes is a solid piece. So is Deandre Jordan. But Doncic/Barnes/Jordan does not a "Big Three" make. Maybe Dennis Smith Jr. finds his mojo this season. Or maybe he has a third year leap next season. Either way, the Mavs kinda need DSJ to develop into a second star. If their recent track record in free agency is any indication, they will struggle to attract the kind of talent that will make a difference.

All of this is to say, I'm curious about just how good Luka really is. I'm also curious how good his most ardent fans believe he'll be. Is he Lebron James good? That is, will he be able to carry a thoroughly below-average squad into the playoffs all on his own? If that's the case, then yeah, the Kings (as well as the Suns, the Grizzlies, and the Hawks) all made a huge mistake passing on him. Or is Luka Doncic only Demarcus Cousins good? That is, will he evince an otherworldly kind of talent that the NBA marvels at, while never lifting his team to greater heights? If he's in that tier, then it's not exactly a fireable offense to have passed on him, as good as he looks during his rookie season. Time will tell, of course.

Ya know, it's funny, a lot of the pre-draft hype machine was practically begging for Luka to get drafted by any team except the Kings. Sacramento is an NBA backwater with an ignominious history of futility attached to its reputation. He'd languish on that franchise and never live up to his potential, they said. Yet as a member of the Dallas Mavericks, I do have to wonder if he'll end up a big stats/bad team kind of player. They're a well-coached ball club. Rick Carlisle squeezes every ounce of defensive potential he can from his rosters. These Mavs are playing pretty damn well on that end, considering their make-up. But the West is insanely competitive these days, even moreso than it's been across the last decade. They're going to need more talent, but it's going to be difficult for them to acquire it. They're asset poor.

I mentioned Demarcus Cousins earlier. Part of me actually expects the Mavericks to sign him this off-season. If they renounce all of their own free agents, they'll have enough cap room to offer the max to one guy (a second superstar would have to take a paycut), and I just don't see Durant or Leonard or Irving heading for Dallas, and I certainly don't see more than one star heading there. My guess is Mark Cuban will end up throwing money at whoever he can get a meeting with in the tiers below players like Durant. That's just the Mavericks' way. But a Doncic/Cousins pairing is not uninteresting, should Cousins return to even 80% of the player he was before injury. Anyway, this is all idle speculation, and I'm not really prognosticating here. Just loosing some stray thoughts into the ether.
Doncic is not going to be Lebron (even though he's better than 19 yo Lebron), but he's a perennial all star in the making (not even that far). Considering the way he plays, he's not even expected to disappear from the radars after turning 30 like most of the players who live on their athleticism more than their technique or IQ. He's the kind of player who makes other teammates better so I wouldn't be surprised to see him attractive for FA as well. This summer Jordan and Matthews are expiring, I guess they'll try to resign the center and happily leave Matthews to find a new team. DeAndre starts to get old but still has two-three good season in the tank I guess, hoping for his next team he's not going to relax after have signed the contract (risky). Right now they need some scoring in the backcourt, Luka had more points to look for in his Real Madrid backcourt teammates than in Dallas. And someone who can play away from the ball as well. Matthews hogs the ball too many times and DJS doesn't know what to do on a basketball court without having the ball in his hands. Perfect fit for Luka and the Mavs is Bradley Beal, unfortunately it's almost impossible to trade for him. I think it could be interesing to trade for Dragic, they know each other pretty well... Now he's injured btw. Cousins is one of the worst player to sign having Doncic, imo.
 
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Counterpoint: that statement can be turned around. It can just as easily be pointed out that "Everything doesn't have to be either/or" also means that it doesn't have to have either been a clutch basket or bad defense. It can be both, and it actually was both, and aside from the fact that it agitates some people, there nothing wrong with pointing out one aspect while not pointing out the other, especially when there's going to be no shortage of people to point out the other.

I do question whether there would be as much push back for people criticizing the defense over praising the shot, if the shot had been hit by Harrison Barnes, or JJ Barea?

I still would have, but that's because the situation is a pet peeve of mine. As I stated right out of the gate, I called it out to my wife before I knew who was going to shoot or make it. I actually paused the game and broke it down for my wife-- "see WTF are they doing?" LOL.

But you bring up a fair point nonetheless.
 
There is a major difference about the Tyreke thread versus this one. In this thread there has been a decent amount of both Bagley bashing as well as Vlade bashing and that is where I take my umbrage. If there wasnt the constant narrative being pushed that "Vlade is gonna lose his job over this pick" and "Welp looking more and more like the Kings chose the wrong player at 2" then there would be no issue here. Since that is not the case.....
That’s part of the discussion for many (though “Bagley bashing” isn’t the right term to describe whether or not he was 2 worthy). Same applies, if you know you’ll read it why open the thread?
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
Looks like DSJ is expected to be traded now. Not surprised. We potentially could have been in the same situation with Fox if Doncic was drafted here and create an even more divisive situation with the fanbase.
Fox >>>> DSJ and personally I think he would have adapted to whatever was given to him, but this definitely gives more credence to the “they wouldn’t have co-existed” theory.
 
This thread needs to be the Luka/JJJ thread tbh that guy went full grown man mode on Lakers and to me looks like the future more so than anyone else in this draft currently. Luka is amazing and a unique player to watch but at times I really feel he just holds the ball for way to long, not sure if that's the system/supporting cast/adjustment period or how he plays. I do expect him as time does on to mix it up more which will make him even more lethal than he is already.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Doncic is not going to be Lebron (even though he's better than 19 yo Lebron), but he's a perennial all star in the making (not even that far). Considering the way he plays, he's not even expected to disappear from the radars after turning 30 like most of the players who live on their athleticism more than their technique or IQ. He's the kind of player who makes other teammates better so I wouldn't be surprised to see him attractive for FA as well. This summer Jordan and Matthews are expiring, I guess they'll try to resign the center and happily leave Matthews to find a new team. DeAndre starts to get old but still has two-three good season in the tank I guess, hoping for his next team he's not going to relax after have signed the contract (risky). Right now they need some scoring in the backcourt, Luka had more points to look for in his Real Madrid backcourt teammates than in Dallas. And someone who can play away from the ball as well. Matthews hogs the ball too many times and DJS doesn't know what to do on a basketball court without having the ball in his hands. Perfect fit for Luka and the Mavs is Bradley Beal, unfortunately it's almost impossible to trade for him. I think it could be interesing to trade for Dragic, they know each other pretty well... Now he's injured btw. Cousins is one of the worst player to sign having Doncic, imo.
It'll be interesting seeing how the Mavs build around Luka going forward. The Rockets sorta have laid out the template in how they've built around Harden but even that's had its ups and downs.

In all honesty, the way the Mavs have their roster set up now isn't far off from what they should be doing going forward (quality of players excepted)

Rim protector/runner big man: DJ (in all honesty, probably not gong to get a guy who fits this role any better than him; Rockets: Capela)
Floor spacer stretch 4 type: Harrison Barnes (probably a bit undersized but filling the role okay, Rockets: formerly Ryan Anderson, now struggling without him)
3-and-D guy who can defend the other team's best wing: Matthews (a little undersized and nowhere near as good as he was pre-leg injury. Rockets: Formerly Ariza now Tucker, although he's playing more 4 now)
Guy who can play off the ball but defend the other team's lead guard: ??? (DSJ has so much potential but maybe not the right demeanor for this role. Brunson has his limits. Rockets: Cp3/formerly Beverly)
---
Change of pace scoring guard: Barrea (still playing well despite being old as heck. Rockets: Gordon)

Only lineup change I could see the Mavs making that could really help them this season is
DJ
Dirk
Barnes
Matthews
Luka
but Dirk isn't very good anymore and I don't trust Matthews or Luka to defend the other team's point guard.

If I were Donnie Nelson and running the Mavs front office this summer , I'd focus on re-signing DeAndre Jordan to a several year contract until finding or developing a younger replacement, make a max offer to Tobias Harris, if that fails then I'd take most fo the money for that offer and go after Mirotic who I think could be a really good secondary scorer behind Luka, and if DSJ isn't working as an offball guy for Luka look at moving him before his value craters completely and trying to woo a guy like Ricky Rubio, who is a good lead guard defender and isn't completely horrible off the ball despite occasionally shooting the ball like a man who has rakes for hands.

DJ
Harris
Barnes
Luka
Rubio

You'd probably have trouble getting all those big contracts to work together under the cap and this would essentially have to be your roster going forward but I think that this starting five would be a good lineup to both (a) maximize Luka's talents offensively and (b) cover for him defensively. Of course, I'm getting way ahead of myself but whatever.
 
I generally agree apart from Rubio cause he's not a reliable shooter, maybe Beverley?
If Washington rebuild try to sell them Barnes along with DSJ for Beal (probably not enough if DSJ market is getting lower and lower).
Then sign Beverley and resign Jordan. Beverley Beal Doncic Jordan. Not sure about the money the Mavs will save from these operations for a second forward.
If they have enough money, I'm totally cool with Harris.
Beverley Beal Harris Doncic Jordan.
 
DJ
Harris
Barnes
Luka
Rubio

You'd probably have trouble getting all those big contracts to work together under the cap and this would essentially have to be your roster going forward but I think that this starting five would be a good lineup to both (a) maximize Luka's talents offensively and (b) cover for him defensively. Of course, I'm getting way ahead of myself but whatever.
Replace Rubio with Brogdan


I generally agree apart from Rubio cause he's not a reliable shooter, maybe Beverley?
If Washington rebuild try to sell them Barnes along with DSJ for Beal (probably not enough if DSJ market is getting lower and lower).
Then sign Beverley and resign Jordan. Beverley Beal Doncic Jordan. Not sure about the money the Mavs will save from these operations for a second forward.
If they have enough money, I'm totally cool with Harris.
Beverley Beal Harris Doncic Jordan.
Malcolm Brogdon is the perfect fit next to Luka imo (he's also I think a FA coming up), he has high IQ can do everything doesn't need the ball and when he gets it does something good with it plus he's another big body who can replace basically everything Wes currently does while giving you PG play.
 
I’m sure he’ll continue to get better. No way a 19 year old has reached the top of his game.

It is a matter of HOW MUCH better, but he isn’t done.
Ya at 19 he’s hasn’t reached his peak he can still get in better shape, tighten up his handle, become an elite shooter, and become a better defender. He’s a pretty good defender in crunch time so it’s there. He’s at 19-6-5 as a rookie shooting 47/36/76 that’s elite for a rookie while running the offense like few could. Even if he improves a little to 20-8-6 that’s an all star player.

Replace Rubio with Brogdan



Malcolm Brogdon is the perfect fit next to Luka imo (he's also I think a FA coming up), he has high IQ can do everything doesn't need the ball and when he gets it does something good with it plus he's another big body who can replace basically everything Wes currently does while giving you PG play.
Ya I agree with this they can get Brogdon too since Milwaukee will most likely have to max Middleton. Max Tobias Harris after LA gets Kawhi to replace the garbage known as Barnes.

DSJ/Brunson
Brogdon
Luka/Finny Smith
Tobias
Jordon/Powell
 
Just tuning in, what are the thoughts on Luka so far? Is it thought he will be able to get better? Or is this as good it gets?
I had the same fear that most of the posters shared here, if he's athletic enough to keep up in the league.

Yes, he's still nonathletic and slow, yet he can go anywhere he wants and do whatever he wants on the court. He's their best player now, he does everything, PG, leader, scorer and game closer. Even when his shot is not falling he would intensify his playmaking keeping him serviceable, his body control, balance and court vision are head and shoulder above the most seasoned vets.

He reads defense and acts accordingly in an instant, so he doesn't have to rely on speed and athleticism, instead his IQ and craftiness do it for him. He's not afraid of contacts and traffic when it needs, he's their 2nd best rebounder after D'Andre... its ridiculous.

All his skills are translated so far and his developing more. He's becoming their game closer and his killer step back jumper is just unstopable. We question how Fox/Bogie/Luca would work. He can play off the ball and having 2 playmaker is not bad thing, making the offense unpredictable, pretty much the Kings were back in their heyday. As their best scorer, he's doing pretty well with 2 volume shooters in Barnes and Matthews not affecting their games. Unlike Barnes he's mature enough not to take ill advised shots when it matters.

His defense is questionable sometimes, but what can you ask for more when he does everything else as a rookie carrying them on his shoulders.

He's just an exciting player to watch, like Boogie and Tyreke wherever they play.
 
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