Bosnian Diehard
Starter
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I’m Bosnian so I don’t have two hours to look through a list of Serbian players.
Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
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The Effort Police
Starter
And the end of the day what does playing well in college or god forbid high school mean in the NBA landscape? That he played great in college.
Would you bet your mortgage that it translates to the NBA?
See how easy that is. Why is playing great in college (or not even playing great in college. I'm looking at you JJJ) somehow valid but this isn't?
It’s hard to get credited for assis over there he had a lot of good passes.
burner account
Prospect
It means that he put 20/9/3 in final versus hostile atmosphere on the road.
Like dude , just reporting his last game on Luka Doncic topic.
YoungBlood
G-League
Chill out. He had a good game today in Europe. Most people want to see that. Clearly you don’t believe Europeans can be successful in the NBA, but a lot of people feel differently. You might be right. But there’s really no point in arguing about it, since youre clearly not willing to see the other sides point of view.
roasthawg
Starter
I'm jumping to jjj's defense every time at this point cause he's my guy lol. He did play great, just didn't play a lot. His per game numbers were almost identical to Kat's during his one year at Kentucky. Michigan State was a really good team and jjj was 4th in minutes. The three guys ahead of him were all sophomores. This is really similar to Kat's situation at Kentucky. I dunno why jjj isn't getting more hype, he's hands down the second best prospect in this draft imo.
Oh yeah, he's younger than almost everyone we're taking about including Doncic.
Section 101
All-Star
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I’m Bosnian so I don’t have two hours to look through a list of Serbian players.
Thought you were all Russian?
burner account
Prospect
biltalent
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And he only played 24 minutes..
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
You are very thick headed about some things.
There most certainly is a comparison. He's not comparing eras, but rather the players during their respective eras. Bird played during a time when Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Clyde Dexler and Charles Barkley were around. And he was often doubted because of his lack of athleticism. But it sure didn't matter did it? It's clearly an example how a player with marginal athleticism could still excel. And the same could still happen today.
In many ways, it does. It's not like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are dunking on opponents heads or flying in to block shots. They are far more skilled than athletic yet are ruling the NBA landscape. Luka Dončić could develop into something similar.
This is one of the best tweets haha
That 20-9-3 game is no match vs Porters game vs the chair and Bambas shooting in an open gym
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
We are in the midst of a skill over everything era not too unlike the 80's. Great players of that level are simply great, no era is needed unless they are super small and unathletic. Players like that can be somewhat propped up depending on the rules at the time.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Probably because he's so fat, slow, and out of shape.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
We get that you aren't a fan of the Kings possibly drafting Luka Dončić. You've made that painfully clear.
But do you really have to make things up?
Because it's clear to everyone but you that the 19 year old 'Wonder Kid' that just accomplished all of the following didn't struggle:
- EuroLeague champion (2018)
- EuroLeague Final Four MVP (2018)
- EuroLeague MVP (2018)
- All-EuroLeague First Team (2018)
It's beyond laughable to suggest that he struggled. It reeks of ignorance or an agenda. Which is it?
est.1999
Starter
I’m done with people only looking at a player’s athleticsism. I’m done with people ignoring basketball IQ and competitiveness.
There's not a great comparison for Luka IMO. Larry Bird isn't it as they have different builds and mindsets with Larry Legend being a stone cold killer on offense when he wanted to be and Doncic being more of a pick & roll player.
I was just asking to see what the response was. Comparing eras is always difficult but that still doesn't stop people from comparing Ayton to David Robinson. It's about the similarities we see in body type and game. Personally I think it's hard to see the success Dirk had in his career and think Bird couldn't succeed but I digress.
Anyway, it's somewhat similar to there not being a good comp for Ben Simmons two years ago. I saw everything from LeBron James to a 6'10" Rondo and none of them were accurate. I'm not comparing Simmons and Doncic (Simmons is a high level athlete who can't shoot while Luka is a below average athlete who has great shot mechanics and potential) just that sometimes it's pointless to try and find a comp for a player.
Honestly I'd argue that it's almost always pointless since they are so very rarely accurate over time. They also lead to some terribly simplistic thinking when you do things like comparing Porter to Durant and Doncic to a better passing Hayward or Rubio mixed with Mike Miller.
Of course you'd take the first guy but that's not a real comparison of Porter and Doncic. If you watch tape you might prefer Porter. I prefer Luka. But at least that's an honest and useful analysis. Comparing guys to past and present NBA players isn't. It's a lazy crutch.
I was just asking to see what the response was. Comparing eras is always difficult but that still doesn't stop people from comparing Ayton to David Robinson. It's about the similarities we see in body type and game. Personally I think it's hard to see the success Dirk had in his career and think Bird couldn't succeed but I digress.
Anyway, it's somewhat similar to there not being a good comp for Ben Simmons two years ago. I saw everything from LeBron James to a 6'10" Rondo and none of them were accurate. I'm not comparing Simmons and Doncic (Simmons is a high level athlete who can't shoot while Luka is a below average athlete who has great shot mechanics and potential) just that sometimes it's pointless to try and find a comp for a player.
Honestly I'd argue that it's almost always pointless since they are so very rarely accurate over time. They also lead to some terribly simplistic thinking when you do things like comparing Porter to Durant and Doncic to a better passing Hayward or Rubio mixed with Mike Miller.
Of course you'd take the first guy but that's not a real comparison of Porter and Doncic. If you watch tape you might prefer Porter. I prefer Luka. But at least that's an honest and useful analysis. Comparing guys to past and present NBA players isn't. It's a lazy crutch.
OffTheWallJamal
Starter
Doncic has got to be the Kings pick! The only reason these other twitter folk like draft express are being critical is because they want Doncic to slide. For reasons unknown.... Doncic has got to be the pick...It is such a no brainer... He will make this team fun again with his selfless style of basketball. Also articles saying Fox won't fit next to Doncic are crazy. Doncic has no problem playing off the ball. The Kings would be such an awesome fast break team with Doncic and Fox in the lineup.
est.1999
Starter
Haha not everyone understands sarcasmI had to re-read this like four times...
I was so confused at the beginning.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Luka and Bird don't compare as players, but they do compare with regard to their immense skill over athleticism and how it can translate to stardom at the NBA level.
roasthawg
Starter
Couldn't disagree more with this. Finding similar comps with current era NBA players is a great way not to mess up in the draft. The more comparisons you can find, the better. Body type, athleticism, and skill set comps are all about projecting how a player might translate. That translate part is what I think the Doncic crowd is missing. Certain player types historically have had issues translating there pre NBA success to the NBA. From Christian latener to Tyler hansborough to jimmer fredette. Super Stars at a lower level of competition go on to struggle in the nba. Doesn't mean Luka will, just means there are legitimate questions as not a lot of guys with his size and athletic profile have done it.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
You do NOT pass on a basketball savant like Doncic. Doncic already runs a team better than Fox ever will. I love Fox, but he’s been pretty clear about not sharing ballhandling duties. Take Doncic. Trade Fox. Get MPJ or Carter at #4, #6, or #8. Sign Smart in FA. Profit.
All the best to Fox, but Doncic is the truth. They should be able to play together, but I don’t Fox is wired that way. Fair play to him-totally understood-but the franchise has to act in its best interests.
All the best to Fox, but Doncic is the truth. They should be able to play together, but I don’t Fox is wired that way. Fair play to him-totally understood-but the franchise has to act in its best interests.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Luka is gonna be really good. If he had plus athleticism, then we wouldn't even be discussing him because he'd be viewed as a generational talent and there would be no way he gets past Phoenix.
Watching today's highlights reinforces my observation that Luka has a TON of bully in his game. Combined with the rediculous skills and suspect athleticism, we might as well compare him to Cousins!
I won't be mad if we go with another of the consensus top 5 guys, lotta star potential in the group. But Luka remains my 1st choice by a mile.
Watching today's highlights reinforces my observation that Luka has a TON of bully in his game. Combined with the rediculous skills and suspect athleticism, we might as well compare him to Cousins!
I won't be mad if we go with another of the consensus top 5 guys, lotta star potential in the group. But Luka remains my 1st choice by a mile.
Absolutely.
The Warriors have three all-stars who came into the league with the biggest questions being their athleticism in Curry, Thompson, and Green. Was Peja more athletic than Doncic? Harden is, but by how much? CP3 is undersized AND not a great run/jump athlete and he's one of the best two way PGs in the league.
Will Doncic be a star? Who knows? Even though I see him as having a very high floor there's no guarantees at all.
But the idea that he can't possibly succeed is a strange one to me.
roasthawg
Starter
Who is saying he can't possibly succeed??? Everyone questioning Luka thinks he'll be good, we're just questioning his upside I'm a draft that has other guys with big upside.
This is Ricky Rubio 2.0 on this board for sure, the expectations are so high on people's minds for Luka.
From Christian Laettner to Tyler Hansborough to Jimmer Freddete?
So . . . White guys?
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Comps would have told you that Donovan Mitchell is somewhere on the continuum of Wade Baldwin, Norman Powell, Marcus Banks and Marcus Smart. Or that Steph Curry would be Mike Bibby at best and Eddie House at worst.
Making comps can help orient people who haven't watched a prospect to get a general idea of their game. Well, if the comp is remotely accurate. But if you're scouting a player to key should be to key in on what he does well and where he struggles instead of who he reminds you of.
Not everyone:
I've said repeatedly that Luka looks to me like a solid double. At this point I'll take that over a home run swing that results in a strike out.
The best combination of floor and ceiling I'm this draft is Ayton and he's going #1 even though there are legitimate criticisms of him as a prospect.
Jackson is an analytics darling for his per minute production but that kind of gamble has been what led to Marvin Williams going #2. I also worry about his lack of explosion and his funky shot mechanics. Both Jackson and Doncic have draft experts excited by the numbers but minimizing the issues with their game.
Bagley is an athletic ball of clay who looks to have great potential and a high floor as a rebounder and opportunistic scorer/energy guy. But he's also a poor fit for today's NBA as a non rim protecting big.
Bamba has absolutely elite tools and is highly skilled/coordinated for his size but absolutely has to get stronger and has motor concerns.
Trae Young has even more athletic/defensive (and size) concerns than Doncic.
Porter Jr is a guy whose tape I didn't really like before the injury. Taking him at #2 when he missed a full year of development, there's no tape on him in competitive games against college defenses AND he's coming off injury? That's like a home run swing at a ball that bounced before crossing home plate IMO.
I have Bagley as my 1A but I don't have complete confidence that he'll be a star. I have Luka as 1B and while I don't think he has huge upside I'd be okay with that pick.
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roasthawg
Starter
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/page-2#post-1327521
Here's my post from last year where I justified my ranking Mitchell in my top ten by comping him to Bledsoe. Pretty sure we're not allowed to talk about race but since you brought it up, yeah white guys. There's a reason there's very few all star level white players in the league and that reason isn't a lack of skill... It's a lack of athleticism. Luka has the same issue to overcome as those other guys. It's not something to ignore.
I liked Mitchell last year too though I don't think he plays much like Bledsoe. My hope was either Fox at 5 and Markkanen at 10 or Isaac at 5 and either DSJ or Mitchell at 10.
Anyway, it IS an uphill battle for a less athletic prospect to succeed. Especially a wing player. Is it a bigger handicap than say, not being able to shoot? Hard to say. It depends on the player.
If Luka were an elite athlete we'd be seeing LeBron or "Ben Simmons with a jumper" comparisons. But he's not an elite athlete. So where does that leave him?
We'll likely find out starting in October.
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