Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

[Ozymandias]

Thank you for pointing out how disingenious the post you quoted was. Talk about cherry-picking examples to suit a viewpoint.

Lol cherry picking is the rigght way to put it. Whatss disengenious is downplaying the iportance of athleticism in todays nba and even worse to bring up Ginobli, cuz the spurs have this player you might've heard of kahwi leonard that locksdown major perimeter threats.

Better passing Hayward is a great player. More valuable than little worse Karl-Anthony Towns (which seems to be a reasonable good scenario for Ayton).



No he is not. Why would he be? One thing people dont always understand is that there aren't strict positions anymore. There are no more Sg, Sf and Pf. Those are usually just wings. 6'5-6'9 versatile players. If we draft Doncic, we sure as hell wont put him defending Lebron, Kd and PG. We have to get a guy to take that matchup and start him as "pf".



No but thats because bad defending big men in general are pretty worthless. One reason to be cautious with Ayton or Bagley. Offense with Ayton, Fox and three shooters could be great but defense with Ayton would most likely suck because non defending centers will always get destroyed

Lol no strict positions any more so who guards those bikgtime sf's? Fox? 6'6 bogdan? You think Luka can hide from Kahwi if he's sent to lock him down?

In 7 game playoff series matchups are of the utmost importance. How do you play a sf at pf to guard sf's work vs the bedst teams in the west? Golden state feasts on those scenario's, surely you have a better plan than that...

If PHX takes donccic they have Josh jackson to guard those sf's. If the kings take doncic they have a gaping hole at SF defensively AGAIN and a bunch of sunken colst assets spent on the positions.

If u dont think doncic can guard at a decent level idk how u could possibly advocate for him as the pick. The kings have enough holes to plug defensively they dont need notherr slazcker. A doncic /justin jackson platoon is far from complementary.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

What do we think Doncic's ceiling is relative to the other prospects at 3?

 

[Gguod]

Lol cherry picking is the rigght way to put it. You'v

Lol no strict positions any more so who guards those bikgtime sf's? Fox? 6'6 bogdan? You think Luka can hide from Kahwi if he's sent to lock him down?

In 7 game playoff series matchups are of the utmost importance. How do you play a sf at pf to guard sf's work vs the bedst teams in the west? Golden state feasts on those scenario's, surely you have a better plan than that...

If PHX takes donccic they have Josh jackson to guard those sf's. If the kings take doncic they have a gaping hole at SF defensively AGAIN and a bunch of sunken colst assets spent on the positions.

If u dont think doncic can guard at a decent level idk how u could possibly advocate for him as the pick. The kings have enough holes to plug defensively they dont need notherr slazcker. A doncic /justin jackson platoon is far from complementary.

Well... as I said in the post you quoted, if we pick Doncic, we need to get another wing to guard the best opposing wings and start him as a "pf".

And there really are no strict positions anymore. Pf position is basically dead. Most of the Power forwards are either stretch 4's or just simply wings (Marcus Morris, Pj Tucker, Mbah a Moute, Draymond Green, Harkless/Aminu ect). If you once were a power forward who couldnt space the floor, you are now a center. So when the opponent has sg, sf and pf on the floor, most of the game they will be wing players and you can pick your best defending wing to defend the opponents best wing, then match up the rest two how you want.

And again, if you are so concerned on Lukas defence, you shouldnt even consider drafting Ayton or Bagley. The difference is that you cant do much to hide a big man on defence. The difference between having a good defending center and a bad one is huge.

 

[Ozymandias]

Did it go over your head that my comment was to illustrate the flaw in the logic behind these type of associations

Did Sacramento make the right choice of the more athletic McLemore over the more skilled McCollum?

They made a comically terrible pick with McClemore, i never thought he had what it takes the way marcus smart dominated him left a strong impression on me goikng into that draft. Believe it or not i was a huge dennis schroder fan that yr and had him higher than ben on my board. I'll forever hold jay bilas accountable for having him #1 on his board for that broadcast (He had okafor over KAT too).

Well... as I said in the post you quoted, if we pick Doncic, we need to get another wing to guard the best opposing wings and start him as a "pf".

And there really are no strict positions anymore. Pf position is basically dead. Most of the Power forwards are either stretch 4's or just simply wings (Marcus Morris, Pj Tucker, Mbah a Moute, Draymond Green, Harkless/Aminu ect). If you once were a power forward who couldnt space the floor, you are now a center. So when the opponent has sg, sf and pf on the floor, most of the game they will be wing players and you can pick your best defending wing to defend the opponents best wing, then match up the rest two how you want.

And again, if you are so concerned on Lukas defence, you shouldnt even consider drafting Ayton or Bagley. The difference is that you cant do much to hide a big man on defence. The difference between having a good defending center and a bad one is huge.

This works in the scope of today's western conference? Sounds like a path to mediocrity to me. How does that work against the warriors? KD and Draymond will trash this doncic/mystery pf while the guards have their hands full....................

Loll ayton is gonna grab craploads of rebounds you are truly disillusioned if u think he's gonna be worse defensively than doncic. What threats does Ayton face at C? Doncic's defensive issues will be much more glaring if thrown to the wolves as the starting SF.

Of course im concerned about his defense. His supporters consistently say youre gonna need to hide him defensively i fail to see how thats what this team needs. They need plugs, not more holes.

 

[Gguod]

Did it go over your head that my comment was a response to pointing out the flaw in the logic behind saying Ginobli's athleticism


This works in the scope of today's western conference? Sounds like a path to mediocrity to me. How does that work against the warriors? KD and Draymond will trash this doncic/mystery pf while the guards have their hands full....................

You sound like you are forming very strong opinions with very little knowledge and then get cranky when you get questioned for that.

I think Warriors will trash allmost all the defneses but im 100% sure it wont because a guy lile Doncic is on the floor

Loll ayton is gonna grab craploads of rebounds you are truly disillusioned if u think he's gonna be worse defensively than doncic. What threats does Ayton face at C? Doncic's defensive issues will be much more glaring if thrown to the wolves as the starting SF.

This tells me you shouldnt form so strong opinions or at least you shouldnt get mad when someone disagrees. No one is concerned about 1-1 matchups with centers. Everyone knows offenses arent built around posting up your center. That 1-1 matchup with center means very little. The problems with bad defending centers come from pick n roll situations, off ball screens, ability to switch and protect the paint and rotate correctly. Bad defending centers get killed on those situations and those are the situations that centers are facing 95% of the time. And thats why center position is so crucial for the defense whereas its easier to hide one doncic on one of the three opposing wings

And its not even neccesarily hiding. Its just matching up you best wing defender (that we need to get, and Ive been saying for very long time that we need a lot of wings) against the best opposing wing and matching up the rest however you se best fit. Doncic can handle most of the number 2 wing scoring options

 

[jcwkings]

Draymond also has a 7” 1’ wingspan and a 8’10” standing reach. You can compensate for foot speed with length. Bogdan has okay footspeed but great length so you could see he can defend an NBA guard.

Luka Doncic does not have great length for an NBA forward. He had average to poor length.

You don't understand basketball if you can't recognize how well Green reads the game and that combined with his effort and frame make him the great defender he is.

 

[Hansel]

The Hayward scenario is real. If Doncic is good enough to ge them to the playoffs but not any further, and then demand 35mil a year, the kings are gonna be stuck between hell and high water.

Of course it is. You sound heavily biased. Basketball isn't just offense, i swear some of y'all would love enes kanter he's skilled and efficient and cant defend and paid handsomely.

To be a decent defender in the nba it requires a great deal of athleticism, especially for a starter..

Doncic is gonna be at SF matching up with KD and Paul George, Kahwi etc, he's gonna be at a severe athletic disadvantage attempting to check them. Brandon Ingram, ina few years Doncic wont be able to provide much resistance vs him either. Josh Jackson is a complete nightmare matchup for Luka.........

Did Utah make the wrong choice of the more Athletic Gobert over the more skilled kanter?

NBA does NOT require a great deal of athleticism to be a decent defender. Of course, it helps.
Duncan was the best defender of the league without jumping (please don't post early days Duncan dunks), Artest Battier or Bowen were the best defenders on guards without being so athletic.
Let me say usually athletic freaks are not good defender, maybe the just cover big mistakes using their natural tools.
Bigs who go for the block as usually bad defenders, they concede three easy buckets per block made.
And then, as soon as they are old, they disappear from the radars.

PS I don't sound heavily based, I am heavily biased. I prefer smart high IQ players over running and jumping freak.

 

[Ozymandias]

If u th

You sound like you are forming very strong opinions with very little knowledge and then get cranky when you get questioned for that.

I think Warriors will trash allmost all the defneses but im 100% sure it wont because a guy lile Doncic is on the floor



This tells me you shouldnt form so strong opinions or at least you shouldnt get mad when someone disagrees. No one is concerned about 1-1 matchups with centers. Everyone knows offenses arent built around posting up your center. That 1-1 matchup with center means very little. The problems with bad defending centers come from pick n roll situations, off ball screens, ability to switch and protect the paint and rotate correctly. Bad defending centers get killed on those situations and those are the situations that centers are facing 95% of the time. And thats why center position is so crusial for the defense whereas its easier to hide one doncic on one of the three opposing wings

"No one is concerned"............. You speak for everybody apparently.._._._....."Everyone knows"....... Lol..... Those sound like strong opinions based on little knowledge to me .

If doncic isnt a peice that can help them beat the warriors, then they should aim higher. I've been eluding to this, iit's the Gordon Hayward connundrum. Hayward would guard all those sf's y'all want to hide doncic from too and pretty well sometimes, idont think doncic can ever reach haywards level defensively either hayward gets nice chasedown blocks in transition too.

A player like demar derozan is an epically bad matchup for luka, he'd dice him to peices and drop an ez 30.

 

[steelevt]

Lol at people questioning how Luka can guard LBJ, KD, and Leonard. Um there's like 25 other teams who don't have anyone that can guard those 3. And those that do have "stoppers" are happy when they limit them to 25 points

 

[Ozymandias]

NBA does NOT require a great deal of athleticism to be a decent defender. Of course, it helps.
Duncan was the best defender of the league without jumping (please don't post early days Duncan dunks), Artest Battier or Bowen were the best defenders on guards without being so athletic.
Let me say usually athletic freaks are not good defender, maybe the just cover big mistakes using their natural tools.
Bigs who go for the block as usually bad defenders, they concede three easy buckets per block made.
And then, as soon as they are old, they disappear from the radars.

PS I don't sound heavily based, I am heavily biased. I prefer smart high IQ players over running and jumping freak.

It does require a great deal of athleticism AT A CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL. lebron makes the finals every year... Your perspective is warped.... This iss especially true for the SF and PG positions.

 

[Gguod]

If u th

"No one is concerned"............. You speak for everybody apparently.._._._....."Everyone knows"....... Lol..... Those sound like strong opinions based on little knowledge to me .

Well its not. Its understanding how the game is played today and understanding the situations where center needs to be good defensively. Its understanding that very few offenses post up their centers straight up 1-1 against another center and create an efficent shot out of it.

If doncic isnt a peice that can help them beat the warriors, then they should aim higher. I've been eluding to this, iit's the Gordon Hayward connundrum. Hayward would guard all those sf's y'all want to hide doncic from too and pretty well sometimes, idont think doncic can ever reach haywards level defensively either hayward gets nice chasedown blocks in transition too.

Doncic is a piece that can contribute to winning. If the rest of the team is good enough, maybe even beating the Warriors. Unfortunately its very hard to see Kings beating Warriors as long as they keep that group together no matter who we draft. The reason skipping on Doncic for Bagley or Ayton isnt defense though. Those guys will get murdered a lot worse defensively.

A player like demar derozan is an epically bad matchup for luka, he'd dice him to peices and drop an ez 30.

Well then just dont make Luka guard Derozan? Get those wing defenders I've been advocating for and make them guard Derozan.

E:

Why take him then? Their hand isnt forced. Everyone else cant stop them so lets renew our membership to that club and sign up for 4more years? Thats the idea? Thats your lottery prize?

Then make someone else guard them. Hopefully you understand that even if you announce Doncic as your starting SF, it doesnt mean he has to guard the opposing starting sf.

 

[Ozymandias]

Lol at people questioning how Luka can guard LBJ, KD, and Leonard. Um there's like 25 other teams who don't have anyone that can guard those 3. And those that do have "stoppers" are happy when they limit them to 25 points

Why take him then? Their hand isnt forced. Everyone else cant stop them so lets renew our membership to that club and sign up for 4more years? Thats the idea? Thats your lottery prize?

 

[steelevt]

Why take him then? Their hand isnt forced. Everyone else cant stop them so lets renew our membership to that club and sign up for 4more years? Thats the idea? Thats your lottery prize?

Who is the LeBron stopper you want us to draft then? My point is there isn't one. So you take the player you believe will best help this team. Don't point out Luka's flaw as "well he can't stop LeBron". You know what? No one can!

 

[biltalent]

Lol at people questioning how Luka can guard LBJ, KD, and Leonard. Um there's like 25 other teams who don't have anyone that can guard those 3. And those that do have "stoppers" are happy when they limit them to 25 points

Exactly. Doncic is not even going to defend them other than on switches. The minute you draft him, you go through all possible big wings that you can sign in Free Agency to put next to him.

 

[biltalent]

Doncic burner account? no , to obvious?

I been following him since he was 13 (already he was seen as the prodigy) and this date is available toeverybody.
He´swingspan is 6-11 reportedly but nothinng official..

https://elpais.com/deportes/2017/02/15/actualidad/1487163390_674923.html

Height wise he may well be 6-9.In the interview for leading Spanish newspaper befor his 18 birthday he said that he was 202 cm(6-7.5)without shoes and he thinks that he will grow a little bit more.No reason to lie , its not like interview for El Pais would help his draft stock.And this was more then year ago. Even if he didn´t grow anything since he is 6-8 + , much bigger then people realize.

One thing to add about his physical attributes. is that he has those Grant Hill huge hands , he palms the ball whit easy and often as product of that he carries the ball when dribling but he does it Harden like so it´s not called often.It helps with deflections and rebounds also.

He has good physical profile to be a 6-9 bully with guard skill , yust needs to get on that Oladipo diet.

He improved his vertical by 2 inches yust in few weeks working in P3 , since then without time to go back and time for recovery he detrited.Ifyou look his eurobasket highlights he looks more athletic then in Aprile,May (80 + games , and not beaing able to work individually on his body).

Not that he will become LBJ but there is definitely another gear.For someone is weird that organisation like Real Madrid wouldun´t put more emphasis on that but its diffrent mentality.He˙s spending more time in video room watching euroleague opponents then working in gym because for Madrid the most important thing is Madrid and there not in business of developing players for nba.

Also hard to compare him with Hayward.Gordon year older as sophomore in Butler was a 207 lbs , well short of Doncic mass that his carring , his profile is closer to Carmelo/Joe Johnson when ther were 18/19 year old,yes inter racial comparision are possible What´snot possible is to find the 18 year old whit that amount of skill,moves,footwork,IQ.Players that smart at advance age(Harden,Curry)showed ability to improve on faster level then most player,because the game comes already so easy for them. Luka physical improvement over next few years will determine what level of player he can be , all star or something more special.And wide shoulders like i am not sure will it help him like Hardens huge chest but sometimes you can see in pick and roll situation him putting opoppents in jail and i guess that wide framer comes handy.

Ideally you will have a player who will be able to punish smaller guards and kill forwards on picks(not to many 6-8 guys with that ability) his iso scoring especially in switching will be determand by his outside shoot , stepback is good , but it can be much better.Combine with his passion for the game and his motor , you would bet on him maximizing his potential.

I would love to see that on Sacramento , Fox and him are polar opposite and it would benefit both of them.

I am just going to quote this because this sums it up perfectly.

 

[Ozymandias]

Well its not. Its understanding how the game is played today and understanding the situations where center needs to be good defensively. Its understanding that very few offenses post up their centers straight up 1-1 against another center and create an efficent shot out of it.



Doncic is a piece that can contribute to winning. If the rest of the team is good enough, maybe even beating the Warriors. Unfortunately its very hard to see Kings beating Warriors as long as they keep that group together no matter who we draft. If you want to aim as high as possible, take MPJ. If you want guaranteed efficent player, take Doncic. The reason skipping on Doncic for Bagley or Ayton isnt defense though. Those guys will get murdered a lot worse defensively.



Well then just dont make Luka guard Derozan? Get those wing defenders I've been advocating for and make them guard Derozan.

U fire blanket statement after blanket statement. Things are far more complex than you realize. "The way the game is played today" lol ur cracking me up.

Hide him defensively is all i need to hear. I watched the kings last year did you? Did they look like they were ready to absorb a wing player who needs to be hidden? That to me would be high on the list lf crap they need to avoid... Unless the plan is to blow up the team and do a multi year eggs in one basket rebuild centered around doncic-- which i think many here seem to advocate.

U talk about positionless ball but then hiding him seems backwards to me. Vs The teams the need him to beat will hiding him be easy? Cuz imo even vs the portlands, utahs and denver type teams it could be more difficult than you realize. U think doncic vs paul millsap at the 4 favors the kings? Iol

 

[Gguod]

U fire blanket statement after blanket statement. Things are far more complex than you realize. "The way the game is played today" lol ur cracking me up.

Hide him defensively is all i need to hear. I watched the kings last year did you? Did they look like they were ready to absorb a wing player who needs to be hidden? That to me would be high on the list lf crap they need to avoid...

U talk about positionless ball but then hiding him seems backwards to me. Vs The teams the need him to beat will hiding him be easy? Cuz imo even vs the portlands, utahs and denver type teams it could be more difficult than you realize. U think doncic vs paul millsap at the 4 favors the kings? Iol

I think you are the one who has trouble grasping the complexity of basketball since all you are seriously saying we shouldnt take Doncic because he cant guard Lebron. First of all you should understand how the basketball is in general being played today, you think its okay for Ayton to suck defensively cause he doesnt have difficult 1-1 matchups. With those type of arguments im not sure you should be suggesting im the one who doesnt understand how "complex" things are.

Positionless is a good word to describe todays Nba. Far better than talking about someone as a pf or sf. And those defensive matchups can change and will change every game. You brought up Nuggets, them not having a dangerous wing scorer you can defend them position by position so doncic taking Wilson Chandler and the wing defender taking Millsap ect.

When it comes to doncic being hidden defencively, its more of getting a good wing defender you can match on opponents best wing. There are very few players who are studs offensively AND being able to guard LeBron and KD. We probably wont ever have that player so we need to get the next best thing

Again, if you are conserned about Lukas defence, you should be terrified about Aytons and Bagleys defense. If you dont understand why that is, I tried to explain it above so read it first and then if you disagree tell me why

 

[Telemachus]

Did it go over your head that my comment was to illustrate the flaw in the logic behind these type of associations

They made a comically terrible pick with McClemore, i never thought he had what it takes the way marcus smart dominated him left a strong impression on me goikng into that draft. Believe it or not i was a huge dennis schroder fan that yr and had him higher than ben on my board. I'll forever hold jay bilas accountable for having him #1 on his board for that broadcast (He had okafor over KAT too).

This works in the scope of today's western conference? Sounds like a path to mediocrity to me. How does that work against the warriors? KD and Draymond will trash this doncic/mystery pf while the guards have their hands full....................

Loll ayton is gonna grab craploads of rebounds you are truly disillusioned if u think he's gonna be worse defensively than doncic. What threats does Ayton face at C? Doncic's defensive issues will be much more glaring if thrown to the wolves as the starting SF.

Of course im concerned about his defense. His supporters consistently say youre gonna need to hide him defensively i fail to see how thats what this team needs. They need plugs, not more holes.

Doncic has shown a very high BBIQb which is veryimportant when playing defense. He has also played very good team defense, which is more important than individual defense IMO. I also think you are vastly overblowing his lack of athleticism. Or I should say that he is more athletic than you are giving him credit for. I don't think the majority of SFs will give him much of a problem. The KDs and LBJs of the league give everyone a problem.

 

[Ozymandias]

When doncic isnt the pick im not gonna be back here repeating this stuff. The weakpoint of the kings defense is SG SF and PF, they'd be foolish to spend a HUGE asset to exacerbate this.

Doncic isnt nearly as good of a fit here as some make him out to be. I just dont see how he fits unless they make a bunch of concessions and ultimately rebuild around him, IMO thats super desperate and outrageously risky and wasteful and vlade will not survive that rebuild.

 

[Blob]

Doncic burner account? no , to obvious?

I been following him since he was 13 (already he was seen as the prodigy) and this date is available toeverybody.
He´swingspan is 6-11 reportedly but nothinng official..

https://elpais.com/deportes/2017/02/15/actualidad/1487163390_674923.html

Height wise he may well be 6-9.In the interview for leading Spanish newspaper befor his 18 birthday he said that he was 202 cm(6-7.5)without shoes and he thinks that he will grow a little bit more.No reason to lie , its not like interview for El Pais would help his draft stock.And this was more then year ago. Even if he didn´t grow anything since he is 6-8 + , much bigger then people realize.

One thing to add about his physical attributes. is that he has those Grant Hill huge hands , he palms the ball whit easy and often as product of that he carries the ball when dribling but he does it Harden like so it´s not called often.It helps with deflections and rebounds also.

He has good physical profile to be a 6-9 bully with guard skill , yust needs to get on that Oladipo diet.

He improved his vertical by 2 inches yust in few weeks working in P3 , since then without time to go back and time for recovery he detrited.Ifyou look his eurobasket highlights he looks more athletic then in Aprile,May (80 + games , and not beaing able to work individually on his body).

Not that he will become LBJ but there is definitely another gear.For someone is weird that organisation like Real Madrid wouldun´t put more emphasis on that but its diffrent mentality.He˙s spending more time in video room watching euroleague opponents then working in gym because for Madrid the most important thing is Madrid and there not in business of developing players for nba.

Also hard to compare him with Hayward.Gordon year older as sophomore in Butler was a 207 lbs , well short of Doncic mass that his carring , his profile is closer to Carmelo/Joe Johnson when ther were 18/19 year old,yes inter racial comparision are possible What´snot possible is to find the 18 year old whit that amount of skill,moves,footwork,IQ.Players that smart at advance age(Harden,Curry)showed ability to improve on faster level then most player,because the game comes already so easy for them. Luka physical improvement over next few years will determine what level of player he can be , all star or something more special.And wide shoulders like i am not sure will it help him like Hardens huge chest but sometimes you can see in pick and roll situation him putting opoppents in jail and i guess that wide framer comes handy.

Ideally you will have a player who will be able to punish smaller guards and kill forwards on picks(not to many 6-8 guys with that ability) his iso scoring especially in switching will be determand by his outside shoot , stepback is good , but it can be much better.Combine with his passion for the game and his motor , you would bet on him maximizing his potential.

I would love to see that on Sacramento , Fox and him are polar opposite and it would benefit both of them.

I agree with your assessment but I question the fit with Sacramento. The Kings just drafted their PG for the next 10 years. You want the ball in his hands. You want the ball in Doncic hands too. Then you have Boggy who showed mastery as a PnR player. You want the ball in his hands too.
Fox will carve up defenses with his blow-by speed. His pick and roll game developed nicely as the season wore on. Doncic is not going to punish anyone with his speed. He is going to use angles and seeing over the top. He is going to use his body. He is quite crafty and will improve his athleticism with NBA training regimen, but he's not going to elevate himself to Fox-level athlete.

Fox can play off the ball. So can Doncic. But these are two guy you want having the ball often.

Think about this as an analogy: Will Fultz and Simmons be compatible in Philly? Ben Simmons needs the ball. You do not want the ball out of his hands. He can play off the ball some, like Fox, but he's a guy who you want leading breaks, driving and dishing. Fultz is the same way. He is a ball dominant player with a slashing and scoring mentality.

So there is a conflict there. Fultz can be effective as 15-20 MPG but you do NOT spend the #1 pick on a 15-20 MPG player! The 76ers did not know Simmons would be so good so soon, now they are stuck with players with conflicting skills, two guys who need the ball to maximize their effectiveness. (Nice trade, Collangelo) I think Fultz has to go and they should trade him while he has value.

The Kings would be inviting a similar dilemma with the drafting of Doncic. I am not saying absolutely it couldn't work, but it is tricky.

If you bring Doncic to Sacramento, how many possessions should he initiate relative to Fox when they are on the floor together? Half? Less? More? The more you take the ball out of Fox's hands the less effective he becomes as penetrator. The more Fox has the ball in his hands the less effective Doncic becomes as a guy who is going to control the pace and set the table for teammates.

Could the Kings find the right balance with Boggy, Doncic and Fox? It would be awkward. Doncic needs to go somewhere he has more control and responsibility to run an offense than I think the Kings should be wanting to grant to him. I think the Kings view Fox as their franchise player. The front office is tickled pink with the play of Boggy and Fox, and rightfully so, and they want to nurture that development fully. This means drafting a front court prospect (Bamba, Ayton, Bagley) to complement their games rather than a wing with point forward skills (Doncic).

I was interested in Doncic vitals (wingspan, athletic testing, etc) not because I want to justify the Kings taking him, but I want the Suns to have increased justification to take him, so Ayton falls to us!

The tier system comes into player because what I am referring to is drafting for need. This is troublesome if you draft a tier lower to fit a need and bypass the more talented player. Bamba, Bagley, Ayton and Doncic are more or less the same tier as my Top 4. When picking among players in the same tier you take the best fit. Therefore this excludes Doncic. I hope this is the Kings thought process. In Brandon Williams I trust.

 

[Gguod]

When doncic isnt the pick im not gonna be back here repeating this stuff. The weakpoint of the kings defense is SG SF and PF, they'd be foolish to spend a HUGE asset to exacerbate this.

Doncic isnt nearly as good of a fit here as some make him out to be. I just dont see how he fits unless they make a bunch of concessions and ultimately rebuild around him, IMO thats super desperate and outrageously risky and wasteful and vlade will not survive that rebuild.

Then please tell us why drafting a defensive liability at Center is better. If our weak point defensively atm is wing position, why would we create another weak point by drafting Ayton or Bagley if its the defense you are conserned about?

 

[Ozymandias]

I think you are the one who has trouble grasping the complexity of basketball since all you are seriously saying we shouldnt take Doncic because he cant guard Lebron. First of all you should understand how the basketball is in general being played today, you think its okay for Ayton to suck defensively cause he doesnt have difficult 1-1 matchups. With those type of arguments im not sure you should be suggesting im the one who doesnt understand how "complex" things are.

Positionless is a good word to describe todays Nba. Far better than talking about someone as a pf or sf. And those defensive matchups can change and will change every game. You brought up Nuggets, them not having a dangerous wing scorer you can defend them position by position so doncic taking Wilson Chandler and the wing defender taking Millsap ect.

When it comes to doncic being hidden defencively, its more of getting a good wing defender you can match on opponents best wing. There are very few players who are studs offensively AND being able to guard LeBron and KD. We probably wont ever have that player so we need to get the next best thing

Again, if you are conserned about Lukas defence, you should be terrified about Aytons and Bagleys defense. If you dont understand why that is, I tried to explain it above so read it first and then if you disagree tell me why

Look at how weak your semantics are that you stoop to twisting my words rather than a direct response. Your point of view is blissfully ignorant of the threat the warriors pose. You speak on "todays nba" but turn a blind eye when i bring up matchups to be found in today's nba.

Playoff basketball is about winning matchups and winning adjustments, no team has ever won an NBA championship because they play positionless basketball.

How'd OKC look with 3 all stars attempting to use the PF position as you'd have the kings use it to make doncic work? The gimmick worked sometimes but was thoroughly exposed by Utah in a series. Im telling u this is not a championship strategy, its a get eliminated in the 1st rd after a decent regular szn strategy. The kings have to land a franchise talent here, one will fall past them for sure cuz this draft is so top heavy

 

[Joshoua]

When doncic isnt the pick im not gonna be back here repeating this stuff. The weakpoint of the kings defense is SG SF and PF, they'd be foolish to spend a HUGE asset to exacerbate this.

Doncic isnt nearly as good of a fit here as some make him out to be. I just dont see how he fits unless they make a bunch of concessions and ultimately rebuild around him, IMO thats super desperate and outrageously risky and wasteful and vlade will not survive that rebuild.

Whose a better fit? I wanna hear it and a big that’s a bad defender is a death sentence to a team a wing can be weak.



Bagley, Ayton, Doncic all have issues defensively so why are we talking defense so much.

Also Lonzo was an alleged bad defender but his high IQ and effort has made him a good defender in the nba. Guess what Luka has an elite IQ and has a better body defensively then Lonzo

 

[Sac.Kings]

The critique on Dončić here has reached laughable levels. Guarding DeRozan? He's a SG for crying out loud. Wingspan = ability to defend?

Everyone keeps mentioning that Luka can't guard anyone and we need to hide him on defense. Works fine for Harden doesn't it? MVP candidate and almost made it to the finals. He can't guard a tree. How about comparing him to Peja? No one on Earth would say Peja was athletic, but he was a decent defender was he not?

The question to ask yourselves is just how many SFs will be able to guard him once he gets settled and focused on his body more? He's LeBron's size. Just think about that. He can do almost anything on the court and the thing people focus on are his wingspan and his quickness, which according to the many "experts" on this board can never be improved upon. Does anyone think before they respond?

Some of y'all need to take a deep breath and quit trying to shove your opinions down everyone's throat. We all have our favorites but what some of you are saying is not backed up by anything and some of it doesn't even make sense. Luka has now become a guy that can't guard anyone, doesn't fit on the Kings, questionable shooter, slow as molasses, and fat. He also doesn't have a prayer to improve upon these things according to some of his critics on this board.

This is a 19 year old kid who took command of a Real Madrid team that had it's captain leave and took them to a couple of championships and managed to snag himself an MVP award in the process. Apparently this was all an accident because fat and slow kids that can't shoot or guard anyone don't have a place in basketball.

Please.

 

[Blob]

Then please tell us why drafting a defensive liability at Center is better. If our weak point defensively atm is wing position, why would we create another weak point by drafting Ayton or Bagley if its the defense you are conserned about?

So Ayton is a defensive liability now? That's a false premise like Doncic is a fat tub of goo is a false premise. Bagley is an extraordinary AD level athlete. He's not likely to be chopped liver on D. He's going to be more agile than 90% of his opponents. It is true he did not play D at Duke. He sat on the outside of a 2-3 zone and rotated out to the perimeter on the three point shooters. Carter was the center of that zone. Bagley guarded a space on the floor and went to the glass went the ball went up. This style of D affected his metrics, including steal and block rate. I am not saying Bagley will be an all defense player with his a 7'0 wingspan and lean frame, but we are talking about superior athlete with fast reaction time. First to the ball wins and he is going to be first to the ball often. This type of athletic profile to go with his motor does not make for a defensive slouch.

 

[Ozymandias]

Then please tell us why drafting a defensive liability at Center is better. If our weak point defensively atm is wing position, why would we create another weak point by drafting Ayton or Bagley if its the defense you are conserned about?

Why is ayton better? Do i really need to hold ur hand and explain this one? Ayton is strong as an ox and figures to be on of the best rebounders in the league, and he can shoot, possible 80% ft guy.

Why do they have to draft a defensive liability though? Bamba and JJJ project as EXCELLENT defendes/erasers of mistakes.

If Bambas to fall, which i dont buy, trading down for him and getting some extra 1st rd picks out of it is a jackpot scenario for the kings.

 

[Gguod]

Look at how weak your semantics are that you stoop to twisting my words rather than a direct response. Your point of view is blissfully ignorant of the threat the warriors pose. You speak on "todays nba" but turn a blind eye when i bring up matchups to be found in today's nba.

Playoff basketball is about winning matchups and winning adjustments, no team has ever won an NBA championship because they play positionless basketball.

How'd OKC look with 3 all stars attempting to use the PF position as you'd have the kings use it to make doncic work? The gimmick worked sometimes but was thoroughly exposed by Utah in a series. Im telling u this is not a championship strategy, its a get eliminated in the 1st rd after a decent regular szn strategy. The kings have to land a franchise talent here, one will fall past them for sure cuz this draft is so top heavy

Nah after you started claiming I dont understand how complex thing are, i felt that I should note that with those arguments you made, you shouldnt claim that.

In these playoffs alone, Celtics played positionless basketball, Rockets played positionless basketball, Cavs play a lot of positionless basketball and Gsw plays a lot of positionless basketball. Or how would you define their lineups like Steph, Klay, Iggy, KD, Green?

I'm not sure you understand what positionless basketball is. For example Rockets have one power forward in their roster and he barely played in the playoffs. They played with three wings most of the time. Celtics had Rozier, three wings and Horford. Cavs played a lot with GHill, three wings and a stretch 4.

That most definetly isnt a strategy that gets you knocked out in the 1st round.

Why is ayton better? Do i really need to hold ur hand and explain this one? Ayton is strong as an ox and figures to be on of the best rebounders in the league, and he can shoot, possible 80% ft guy.

Why do they have to draft a defensive liability though? Bamba and JJJ project as EXCELLENT defendes/erasers of mistakes.

If Bambas to fall, which i dont buy, trading down for him and getting some extra 1st rd picks out of it is a jackpot scenario for the kings.

Ayton was a horrible defender in college and most likely will be a defensive liability in the Nba. He is good offensively but the discussion was about defense. He would create another weak point as you said.

If you prefer JJJ or Bamba over Doncic because of defense, thats perfectly fine with me. Taking Ayton or Bagley because Doncic cant defend is a flawed argument

 

[Blob]

The question to ask yourselves is just how many SFs will be able to guard him once he gets settled and focused on his body more? He's LeBron's size. Just think about that. He can do almost anything on the court and the thing people focus on are his wingspan and his quickness, which according to the many "experts" on this board can never be improved upon. Does anyone think before they respond?.

Doncic is not the size of LeBron. LeBron is a freight train. Doncic is a mid size moving van.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I agree with your assessment but I question the fit with Sacramento. The Kings just drafted their PG for the next 10 years. You want the ball in his hands. You want the ball in Doncic hands too. Then you have Boggy who showed mastery as a PnR player. You want the ball in his hands too.
Fox will carve up defenses with his blow-by speed. His pick and roll game developed nicely as the season wore on. Doncic is not going to punish anyone with his speed. He is going to use angles and seeing over the top. He is going to use his body. He is quite crafty and will improve his athleticism with NBA training regimen, but he's not going to elevate himself to Fox-level athlete.

Fox can play off the ball. So can Doncic. But these are two guy you want having the ball often.

Think about this as an analogy: Will Fultz and Simmons be compatible in Philly? Ben Simmons needs the ball. You do not want the ball out of his hands. He can play off the ball some, like Fox, but he's a guy who you want leading breaks, driving and dishing. Fultz is the same way. He is a ball dominant player with a slashing and scoring mentality.

So there is a conflict there. Fultz can be effective as 15-20 MPG but you do NOT spend the #1 pick on a 15-20 MPG player! The 76ers did not know Simmons would be so good so soon, now they are stuck with players with conflicting skills, two guys who need the ball to maximize their effectiveness. (Nice trade, Collangelo) I think Fultz has to go and they should trade him while he has value.

The Kings would be inviting a similar dilemma with the drafting of Doncic. I am not saying absolutely it couldn't work, but it is tricky.

If you bring Doncic to Sacramento, how many possessions should he initiate relative to Fox when they are on the floor together? Half? Less? More? The more you take the ball out of Fox's hands the less effective he becomes as penetrator. The more Fox has the ball in his hands the less effective Doncic becomes as a guy who is going to control the pace and set the table for teammates.

Could the Kings find the right balance with Boggy, Doncic and Fox? It would be awkward. Doncic needs to go somewhere he has more control and responsibility to run an offense than I think the Kings should be wanting to grant to him. I think the Kings view Fox as their franchise player. The front office is tickled pink with the play of Boggy and Fox, and rightfully so, and they want to nurture that development fully. This means drafting a front court prospect (Bamba, Ayton, Bagley) to complement their games rather than a wing with point forward skills (Doncic).

I was interested in Doncic vitals (wingspan, athletic testing, etc) not because I want to justify the Kings taking him, but I want the Suns to have increased justification to take him, so Ayton falls to us!

The tier system comes into player because what I am referring to is drafting for need. This is troublesome if you draft a tier lower to fit a need and bypass the more talented player. Bamba, Bagley, Ayton and Doncic are more or less the same tier as my Top 4. When picking among players in the same tier you take the best fit. Therefore this excludes Doncic. I hope this is the Kings thought process. In Brandon Williams I trust.

I think it would work out fine with Dončić being on the Kings. As we have seen over the years with Tyreke, you can't have just one ball handler on the floor anymore in case they get trapped or doubled. The Warriors make it work and so does Houston along with the Raptors, Bucks etc. If Curry, Durant, and Klay can find enough touches to stay happy, then I'm sure we wouldn't have a problem. Don't forget that Fox is also a lob target along with Willie while Bogdan would play a Klay Thompson role. We could also have him come off the bench and start Buddy who loves to launch threes. I don't understand the fit issue at all. He would be a solid fit for sure.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Doncic is not the size of LeBron. LeBron is a freight train. Doncic is a mid size moving van.

The kid is 230 and 6-9 at least. He's close. LeBron is a once in a generation player, we can't have everything haha.